What the heck are you refering to, Maine? You know nothing of this student's situation. You do not know his talent level. How can you possibly presume to know anything about anyone's students yet alone mine? That's completely outrageous. You know nothing of the industry. To have any success as an instrumentalist in order to forge a carreer one has to have superior talent and dedication. Does this student have what it takes? Do you know this student? Have you made the decision to make a carreer in music?
Your accusations are completely out of line. You are completely uninformed and wholely unqualified to make judgemnts on my line of work. In days gone by, this student could have played professionally but there is so little work remaining that he will never get a chance. Hippocrisy? Your unfounded pronouncements are the height of ignorance.
Your arrogance is truly unbelievable. You are devoid of any useful practical experience, have zero credentials and cite your dad to back up your position and you somehow feel qualified to challenge my considered professional opion? You, in your arrogance, have assumed that I have told this student to stop playing. You make one rash, ill informed assumption after other. See, Maine, I know what I'm talking about and you don't. What makes you think you can even offer an opion about my student's capabilities? You are a true amateur.
I laugh at your ignorance. It's not often that one runs across a know nothing know it all but here you are. Imagine a garage band amateur assuming he knows all. Well, there we have it sports fans: the art from is in serious trouble when the ignorant think they know more than the educated.
The Grey Album???
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InstantRice
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Instant, it is my job to make value judgements. I have to assign grades. It would be irresponsible and unprofessional to lie to a student. Where does this "dream" stuff come in to play? My original point was that 20 years ago this student could have worked. There was so much more musical activity that he could have possibly found a niche in the community. That world is gone and I fear gone for good.
Look, this is the way it worked (and still does more or less): A reasonably skilled student comes to me for lessons. I can see if this player has a chance to handle himself on a job. I get get calls for jobs all the time that don't fit into my schedule. I recommend other good players which casts me in a favorable light because my taste in good players reflects upon me. Same with sending a sub to a gig that conflicts with another gig. I find the absolute best player I can. This adds to the networking component of freelancing because if you toss some bones to a colleague they'll toss you some bones later on. Now, it used to be that there were many bands working that I'll call Tier 2 ensembles. They were staffed by part timers. Some good players amongest them but these were great places for a young player to begin to learn the ropes. These bands have largely disappeared with the arrival of DJs and so have have the opportunities to cut one's teeth. Of these types of bands that are left, you will find A level players taking the dates not the students. The students are being frozen out because of the lack of work.
The dissapperaing work results from several things: DJs, synthesizers (string players will attest to that), "Band in a Box" (virtual music synthesizers using samples triggered by a person tapping a pad for the tempo and making their appearance in theater), Cable TV (really started noticing a dramtic drop off in attendance at live events with the advent of cable and the remote control), a changing demographic (a new generation who have grown up with all of the above and don't know what they're not getting), Record Labels (more interested in moving units than expanding the art) and the instant gratificatioin generation. I had a student yesterday who said, "Learning to play this thing right harder than any video game I ever played." I kid you not.
Now you have ever descending spiral. All the things I listed have devalued music. Used to be a local jingle might cost $10K to produce. Along came the synths displacing first the string players, then the horns, then the base and drums. Now guys do jingles in their basement on a sampler and charge $500. The money is gone. There is less money being spent on music then at anytime in history pro rated for the population. This squeezes people out of the industry. Still got to pay the mortage. How does this affect the student? Guess.
It takes time and effort to stay on top of your game and keep on the ever ascending spiral staircase in terms of your facility on your instrument. If I take one day off I feel it. When does it come to the point of diminishing returns?
Then there's the original point of this whole thread. Sampling. Samplers are not hiring musicians for their sessions so I'm more available for other work which means there is less opportunity for another new player to break into the scene. On a session, I am hired to produce my sound which is sold to the producer under an agreement of one sort or another. When peple believe they have the right to exploit my performance without compensation then I have put myself out of work by undercutting myself through my own performance. It's "A Brave New World."
Look, this is the way it worked (and still does more or less): A reasonably skilled student comes to me for lessons. I can see if this player has a chance to handle himself on a job. I get get calls for jobs all the time that don't fit into my schedule. I recommend other good players which casts me in a favorable light because my taste in good players reflects upon me. Same with sending a sub to a gig that conflicts with another gig. I find the absolute best player I can. This adds to the networking component of freelancing because if you toss some bones to a colleague they'll toss you some bones later on. Now, it used to be that there were many bands working that I'll call Tier 2 ensembles. They were staffed by part timers. Some good players amongest them but these were great places for a young player to begin to learn the ropes. These bands have largely disappeared with the arrival of DJs and so have have the opportunities to cut one's teeth. Of these types of bands that are left, you will find A level players taking the dates not the students. The students are being frozen out because of the lack of work.
The dissapperaing work results from several things: DJs, synthesizers (string players will attest to that), "Band in a Box" (virtual music synthesizers using samples triggered by a person tapping a pad for the tempo and making their appearance in theater), Cable TV (really started noticing a dramtic drop off in attendance at live events with the advent of cable and the remote control), a changing demographic (a new generation who have grown up with all of the above and don't know what they're not getting), Record Labels (more interested in moving units than expanding the art) and the instant gratificatioin generation. I had a student yesterday who said, "Learning to play this thing right harder than any video game I ever played." I kid you not.
Now you have ever descending spiral. All the things I listed have devalued music. Used to be a local jingle might cost $10K to produce. Along came the synths displacing first the string players, then the horns, then the base and drums. Now guys do jingles in their basement on a sampler and charge $500. The money is gone. There is less money being spent on music then at anytime in history pro rated for the population. This squeezes people out of the industry. Still got to pay the mortage. How does this affect the student? Guess.
It takes time and effort to stay on top of your game and keep on the ever ascending spiral staircase in terms of your facility on your instrument. If I take one day off I feel it. When does it come to the point of diminishing returns?
Then there's the original point of this whole thread. Sampling. Samplers are not hiring musicians for their sessions so I'm more available for other work which means there is less opportunity for another new player to break into the scene. On a session, I am hired to produce my sound which is sold to the producer under an agreement of one sort or another. When peple believe they have the right to exploit my performance without compensation then I have put myself out of work by undercutting myself through my own performance. It's "A Brave New World."
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MaineExport
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Alright... it is obviously impossible to get anywhere productive with you Vim. You can attack me personally all you want... you can doubt my credentials all you want. I have a fair amount of experience as a professional musician in many different aspects of the "biz". But, unlike you I don't need to brag about it to posture myself or make myself feel better.
I've been in the game professionally for over 15 years... big woop... that means nothing. That has nothing to do with ANYTHING. No one cares, because how much professional experience either one of us has is absolutely irrelevant to the topic at hand.
Anywho... as for your student... I based my opinion on the information YOU provided.
Another cute quote I stumbled across again today that seemed quite fitting:
"Arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand"
Man, Vim, you really get your panties in a bunch when someone calls your integrity into question. For such a huge ego... it sure is fragile!
I've been in the game professionally for over 15 years... big woop... that means nothing. That has nothing to do with ANYTHING. No one cares, because how much professional experience either one of us has is absolutely irrelevant to the topic at hand.
Anywho... as for your student... I based my opinion on the information YOU provided.
Another cute quote I stumbled across again today that seemed quite fitting:
"Arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand"
Man, Vim, you really get your panties in a bunch when someone calls your integrity into question. For such a huge ego... it sure is fragile!
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MaineExport
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Originally posted by VimyJ "]You are a true amateur.
It's not often that one runs across a know nothing know it all but here you are. Imagine a garage band amateur assuming he knows all.
And what's with all of the name calling? I would think someone of a superior intellect such as yours (**he says with tongue in cheek**) would realize that name calling only detracts from your argument and makes you look childish. If you can't formulate a cohesive argument that is on point without resorting to playground antics... maybe you should play in another sand box.
Oh... and I don't mind being called an amateur... it helps me collect some of my money under the table!!:D
It's not often that one runs across a know nothing know it all but here you are. Imagine a garage band amateur assuming he knows all.
And what's with all of the name calling? I would think someone of a superior intellect such as yours (**he says with tongue in cheek**) would realize that name calling only detracts from your argument and makes you look childish. If you can't formulate a cohesive argument that is on point without resorting to playground antics... maybe you should play in another sand box.
Oh... and I don't mind being called an amateur... it helps me collect some of my money under the table!!:D
Maine, you are the personification of arrogance and ignorance. You jumped to conclusions by making erroneous assumptions. As someone else pointed out in another thread you never have any facts to back up your points of view.
As far as bragging (as you call it) goes, I listed some of my experience. Call it bragging if you want but I was merely trying to point out to doubting Thomas among us that I have given serious thought about the current state of the industry/art and its future because I have been and am still intimately involved with it.
My integrity is just fine. I have trouble when know it all punks like you who flail away as a part timer cite your dad to call into question my point of view to merely gainsay. You know you're bad at that and have been called on it before.
Come armed with facts some time.
As far as bragging (as you call it) goes, I listed some of my experience. Call it bragging if you want but I was merely trying to point out to doubting Thomas among us that I have given serious thought about the current state of the industry/art and its future because I have been and am still intimately involved with it.
My integrity is just fine. I have trouble when know it all punks like you who flail away as a part timer cite your dad to call into question my point of view to merely gainsay. You know you're bad at that and have been called on it before.
Come armed with facts some time.
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MaineExport
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by VimyJ "]you never have any facts to back up your points of view.
I don't recall making an argument that would require facts to back anything up.
I have trouble when know it all punks like you
haha... again with the name calling. Cute.
Come armed with facts some time.
When I make an argument that would require the citation of some facts... I will surely do so. I'm not sure how you telling a talented musician to persue a career in engineering requires me to present facts... but if you can think of something let me know... I'll do my best. :rolleyes
And so the saga continues...
I don't recall making an argument that would require facts to back anything up.
I have trouble when know it all punks like you
haha... again with the name calling. Cute.
Come armed with facts some time.
When I make an argument that would require the citation of some facts... I will surely do so. I'm not sure how you telling a talented musician to persue a career in engineering requires me to present facts... but if you can think of something let me know... I'll do my best. :rolleyes
And so the saga continues...
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MaineExport
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MaineExport
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I Need $$$
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I think it is a nice piece of work. I know he didn't make any of the music himself but he did combine two different types of music together which had to take plenty of time and effort on his behalf. And for what did he do this for? Obviousley not money and its highly unlikely he will gain any fame from this, so I guess what I am trying to say is that he loves music also.
Oh and VimyJ smoke a dooby it will calm you down some
Oh and VimyJ smoke a dooby it will calm you down some
I Need $$$ wrote:Oh and VimyJ smoke a dooby it will calm you down some
You got papers?
BTW, there was a item on the local news here in Chicago tonight. The Musician's Union is down sizing its location due to declining membership. The reason: not nearly as many live music venues as there once were. Local 10-208. My local. Same situation all over the continent.
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I Need $$$
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Man that is a shame live music is the best. People need to get out and go to a symphony instead of a movie. In the end you are more likely to feel like you spent your money more wisely than at some stupid movie. Oh and VimyJ you took that a lot better than I thought so yes I do have papers, shells, a bowl, etc...
$$$, my father has always been an audiophile and a big time music lover. He would always go buy the latest gear to reproduce the performances he always loved. He goes to live performances often of the symphony, ballet, opera and theater in his/my home town of Winnipeg that is blessed with a bery lively and high quality performing arts scene.
Once, when I was a member of the orchetra about 10 years ago, he came to a performance. He told me afterward that while he was sitting there listening to the orchestra getting into that zone where your thoughts just begin to roam that he started thinking just how perfect the sound was. Everything just right, clear, brilliant and balanced.
It was then he decided that he wasn't going to waste any more money on audio gear. He felt that no matter what new speakers or recording medium came out, nothing could ever be as sublime as just letting the orhestra fill his ears without going through some kind of electronic reproduction intermediary system. I thought it a profound anti establishment comment.
Once, when I was a member of the orchetra about 10 years ago, he came to a performance. He told me afterward that while he was sitting there listening to the orchestra getting into that zone where your thoughts just begin to roam that he started thinking just how perfect the sound was. Everything just right, clear, brilliant and balanced.
It was then he decided that he wasn't going to waste any more money on audio gear. He felt that no matter what new speakers or recording medium came out, nothing could ever be as sublime as just letting the orhestra fill his ears without going through some kind of electronic reproduction intermediary system. I thought it a profound anti establishment comment.
^ probably the best thing to come out of this thread. nothing will ever beat seeing a live performance. even recorded live performances are nothing compared to the real thing. that is, unless the group you see isnt that great live (cough *boston * cough). i love seeing the orchestra and symphony live. its one of the greates things ever. my gf and i plan to see many concerts and i plan on taking my kids there too. they will get the full musical treatment, from jazz to blues, country/bluegrass to rock, classical to folk. if its worth listening too, they're going to hear it.
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MaineExport
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I just got home from the club. A buddy of mine and his band played at a bar called Sidelines. Live music was alive and well tonight! They are a rather eclectic group... their influences are very diverse. The end product was a laid-back blues based evening with some seriously aggressive moments. It's nice to see a "rock" band that still knows what the idea of "dynamics" means.
It is a shame to hear a few of the comments my friends made on the way there. Obviously when a live band is playing... there is going to be a cover charge to get in the door. Most of the crew we headed there with grumbled about the added expense.... as if the price was going to deny them that one extra beer.
It is a shame to hear a few of the comments my friends made on the way there. Obviously when a live band is playing... there is going to be a cover charge to get in the door. Most of the crew we headed there with grumbled about the added expense.... as if the price was going to deny them that one extra beer.
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I Need $$$
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I Need $$$ wrote:Its not nesscessarily the sound that makes seeing a live performance better but its the energy that you pull from it. If you think about it most concerts are heard through speakers right?
I was hoping no one would bring this pet peeve of mine up. At a truly acoustic performance, sound goes directly from the player into your ear. Sound coming through a PA has been altered by going through a type of filter.
All instruments make a sound that is actually a blend of frequencies called the overtone series. Most instruments and the human voice have the prominent overtone being the first harmonic which is an octave. This is why a symphony concert sounds so clear. As soon as you put sound through a PA system it is the third harmonic that is emphasized which is a 12th above the fundamental. This leads to a slightly distorted sound as the natural overtone series is being reinforced artificially by the sound system with a non prominent and less than desirable harmonic sounding stronger than it should.
This is one reason why a lot of guitar players look for vacuum tube amplifiers as opposed to solid state ones. Tube amps emphasize the more natural first (octave) harmonic. Guitar players describe the sound of the tube amp as warmer and more clear. However, if you're looking for that fuzzed out distorted sound common to most rock music then solid state is the prefered way to go. The buzz from those amps is distorted which is what most guys playing that idiom are looking for in the first place.
I won't go to concerts where my participation in the event as an audience member won't affect the performance. What I mean by that is that if I figure one could "kneecap" the audience with an Uzi and not affect the stuff happening on stage, then it's really not a "live" performance. This limits the audience size for me to about 5000 people. Any more and the audience becomes less of a participant and more of a seething mob that the performers sort of ignore.
Some of the most memorable moments in my music carreer have come at the end of a powerful symphonic work when the final chord is sounded. When the chord is ended by the conductor, there is a moment of complete silence before the audience crashes in with appluase. This silence is sublime. To me, it defines the whole purpose of the work. The sound of the entire symphony is to define the silence from whence it came.
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C-Kwik
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Personally, I find the most ignorant people when it comes to any type of art are those who think that just because they do not like it, someone else can not. I listen to all kinds of music. I certainly have heard songs that I do not care for. But I will not discount them for what the artist does. If I could be up there and had the talent to record music and perhaps be in a concert, then certainly I would. Whether it's rap/hip-hop(even Jay-Z), rock, alternative, jazz, classical, country, trance, techno, drum and bass/jungle, etc, etc, etc, it's music. You don't have to like all of it. I don't like all of it. But others do. We should respect that.
I listen to all of the above, except maybe most country songs(the twang in the voice irritates me). But I respect country artists just the same. Same goes for these so-called samplers. While I would agree that stealing music as their own is not morally right, I see nothing wrong with sampling. Not only is it making these artists money, it is giving joy to an audience. That is the purpose of art, is it not? Who is anyone to say what is actually is and is not art? I listen to what sounds good and what makes me feel good. Being "enlightened" about art to me is someone trying to be arrogant about how they see something. You either like it or you don't. Hell, you may only even like a part of some work. I'll bet most people don't listen to every song on their favorite artist's albums.
So many are quick to judge an artist or a band by where they came from. Certainly, we can appreciate any artist who can succeed when the odds are stacked against them. But that doesn't mean I have to enjoy their music.
I listen to all of the above, except maybe most country songs(the twang in the voice irritates me). But I respect country artists just the same. Same goes for these so-called samplers. While I would agree that stealing music as their own is not morally right, I see nothing wrong with sampling. Not only is it making these artists money, it is giving joy to an audience. That is the purpose of art, is it not? Who is anyone to say what is actually is and is not art? I listen to what sounds good and what makes me feel good. Being "enlightened" about art to me is someone trying to be arrogant about how they see something. You either like it or you don't. Hell, you may only even like a part of some work. I'll bet most people don't listen to every song on their favorite artist's albums.
So many are quick to judge an artist or a band by where they came from. Certainly, we can appreciate any artist who can succeed when the odds are stacked against them. But that doesn't mean I have to enjoy their music.
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MaineExport
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C-Kwik wrote:Personally, I find the most ignorant people when it comes to any type of art are those who think that just because they do not like it, someone else can not.
Not only is it making these artists money, it is giving joy to an audience. That is the purpose of art, is it not? Who is anyone to say what is actually is and is not art?
Some people have a hard time seeing the forest for the trees.
It's nice to see open-minded opinions such as yours C-Kwik!
C-Kwik, are you implying that ignorance is what all should strive to attain? Are you saying that knowledgable opinions are ignorant? Are you offerng an opinion and/or a critique of things you have read in this thread? Using your logic, you would have no right to offer an opinion about anything you have learned here. Is the purpose of your post to enlighten?
Perhaps we should define our terms.
Ignorant: 1 a : destitute of knowledge or education <an ignorant society>; also : lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified <parents ignorant of modern mathematics> b : resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence <ignorant errors>
Enlightened: 1 : freed from ignorance and misinformation <an enlightened people> 2 : based on full comprehension of the problems involved <issued an enlightened ruling>
We live in interesting times.
Perhaps we should define our terms.
Ignorant: 1 a : destitute of knowledge or education <an ignorant society>; also : lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified <parents ignorant of modern mathematics> b : resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence <ignorant errors>
Enlightened: 1 : freed from ignorance and misinformation <an enlightened people> 2 : based on full comprehension of the problems involved <issued an enlightened ruling>
We live in interesting times.
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MaineExport
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C-Kwik
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My post wasn't directed towards you. But within this thread I have seen comments from many that I feel were perhaps ignorant. Ignorance comes in many forms. You may feel you are not because you are in the industry. However, even those who think they know a lot should be humbled by even the most simplistic views on a topic. Those quick to judge are usually the most ignorant. Why? Because they fail to see the anyone else's opinions as valid. You come from a different perspective than most of us. But it wouldn't mean anyone else's opinions are any less. Including yours.
I saw a lot of comments that were negative against Jay-Z. Saw at least one against techno. Nothing wrong with not liking it. But there are those who refuse to call it music. But there are those who actually enjoy it. So it is in reality music, is it not? This is where I see a lot of ignorance.
But to answer your questions. I implied the opposite actually. And as I've said, ignorance comes in many forms. By the definition you posted, ingorance is essentially a lack of knowledge. There are those who are quick to discount a person's opinion simply because they do not have as much knowledge. But considering how subjective music is, even a simplistic view of it is a valid opinion. I never said knowledgable people are ignorant. What I see is that those who think they are truly "enlightened" seem to have an arrogance about them that doesn't allow them to see things on the same level as others who aren't "enlightened". While they don't have to agree, it is just as ignorant if you 'ignore' or simply do not understand a less "enlightened" view. And I said everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Did I say any different. Try not to read so deeply into it. My post was very straightforward. It should be taken as such. I would hope any post in a forum would be able to enlighten to some extent. So I guess in a sense, yes, the purpose of my post is to enlighten. I think the intent of most of your posts were to do the same. However, with your responsee to me, what was your intent? My response was directed broadly and it was more of a general statement. You seem to try to argue that I am saying something I am not. If my post was unclear, please feel free to tell me why and I can try to clarify. But I thought it was pretty clear. I don't generally make assumptions, but if you are responding defensively to my post, then perhaps it applies to you more than I think.
I saw a lot of comments that were negative against Jay-Z. Saw at least one against techno. Nothing wrong with not liking it. But there are those who refuse to call it music. But there are those who actually enjoy it. So it is in reality music, is it not? This is where I see a lot of ignorance.
VimyJ wrote:C-Kwik, are you implying that ignorance is what all should strive to attain? Are you saying that knowledgable opinions are ignorant? Are you offering an opinion and/or a critique of things you have read in this thread? Using your logic, you would have no right to offer an opinion about anything you have learned here. Is the purpose of your post to enlighten?
But to answer your questions. I implied the opposite actually. And as I've said, ignorance comes in many forms. By the definition you posted, ingorance is essentially a lack of knowledge. There are those who are quick to discount a person's opinion simply because they do not have as much knowledge. But considering how subjective music is, even a simplistic view of it is a valid opinion. I never said knowledgable people are ignorant. What I see is that those who think they are truly "enlightened" seem to have an arrogance about them that doesn't allow them to see things on the same level as others who aren't "enlightened". While they don't have to agree, it is just as ignorant if you 'ignore' or simply do not understand a less "enlightened" view. And I said everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Did I say any different. Try not to read so deeply into it. My post was very straightforward. It should be taken as such. I would hope any post in a forum would be able to enlighten to some extent. So I guess in a sense, yes, the purpose of my post is to enlighten. I think the intent of most of your posts were to do the same. However, with your responsee to me, what was your intent? My response was directed broadly and it was more of a general statement. You seem to try to argue that I am saying something I am not. If my post was unclear, please feel free to tell me why and I can try to clarify. But I thought it was pretty clear. I don't generally make assumptions, but if you are responding defensively to my post, then perhaps it applies to you more than I think.
MaineExport wrote:Perhaps one man's idea of a "knowledgable opinion" might be another man's (or everybody else's) idea of a narrow minded or ignorant opinion born of bias and arrogance.
Knowledge: 1 : obsolete : COGNIZANCE 2 a (1) : the fact or condition of knowing something with familiarity gained through experience or association (2) : acquaintance with or understanding of a science, art, or technique b (1) : the fact or condition of being aware of something (2) : the range of one's information or understanding <answered to the best of my knowledge> c : the circumstance or condition of apprehending truth or fact through reasoning : COGNITION d : the fact or condition of having information or of being learned <a man of unusual knowledge>
Certainly, there are persons more knowledgeable than me but I have more absolute knowledge on this topic than most here. I am not being arrogant when I say that. I am just making an objective observation. One can't argue with the knowledge I have gained during my carreer because as the definition of the word describes the fact of my knowing something gained through experience or association.
Since I have played just about every form of music and have good acquaintance of those in forms that I haven't performed, my experience is wide and hardly narrow.
Now, I certainly can be accused of bias since I am discriminating. However, I am not prejudiced.
Where does the arrogant part come in? From the fact that I have trumpeted some of my hard earned knowledge? In a discussion concerning something of which I am quite knowledgeable, I would think the addition of some knowledge would prove enlightening to some. Or, am I being arrogant again? Or, am I merely responding in kind?
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MaineExport
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By "biased" I mean... from the inside the view can be distorted. From a purely scientific standpoint... observations are more accurate and relevant from the outside. That is NOT to say that an education and working knowledge of the subject isn't a fundamental element of the observation... but it is not the ONLY criteria of a complete and correct observation. There is nothing you have said on the issue that would say you are uneducated or inexperienced in the area of discussion... but that doesn't mean your opinion is the only correct or relevant one.
This leads directly to my next point:
By "arrogance" I mean you leave no room for contrary opinions on the issue. Your experience and expertise have apparently made you feel that anyone who might disagree with you (regardless of their experience or education) is merely "gainsaying".
This leads directly to my next point:
By "arrogance" I mean you leave no room for contrary opinions on the issue. Your experience and expertise have apparently made you feel that anyone who might disagree with you (regardless of their experience or education) is merely "gainsaying".
To get back to my original point about sampling, if someome samples a copyrighted work without the permission of the artist then it is stealing. Why should my views on that matter be open to any who claim such behavior is not stealing? The material is copyrighted. If the sampler is too ignorant to compose his or her own material and resorts to stealing, why should I have to compromise my view?
Let's face it, most people who sample are ignorant of how to make those complicated sounds on their own. There should be little argument in that.
I have pointed out using facts (anecdotal and objective) that the music industry is in a tail spin. There are less clubs and less musicians per capita than at any time in the last 100 yrs. I daresay that there are less musicians period than there were 100, 50, 25 or 10 years ago. This is a fact.
My musician friends, who have children, start their kids on instruments and have them formally study music. However, few of them encourage their kids to persue it as a profession because there just isn't much of a future in it as a performer. The venues are disappearing. Technology is displacing instrumentalists. The community grows smaller day by day. These are the sad facts that I see because I am within the scene. You have shown that because you are outside of the scene, you are unaware of these facts. Inside or outside makes no difference to the observations if one remains objective.
Let's face it, most people who sample are ignorant of how to make those complicated sounds on their own. There should be little argument in that.
I have pointed out using facts (anecdotal and objective) that the music industry is in a tail spin. There are less clubs and less musicians per capita than at any time in the last 100 yrs. I daresay that there are less musicians period than there were 100, 50, 25 or 10 years ago. This is a fact.
My musician friends, who have children, start their kids on instruments and have them formally study music. However, few of them encourage their kids to persue it as a profession because there just isn't much of a future in it as a performer. The venues are disappearing. Technology is displacing instrumentalists. The community grows smaller day by day. These are the sad facts that I see because I am within the scene. You have shown that because you are outside of the scene, you are unaware of these facts. Inside or outside makes no difference to the observations if one remains objective.
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MaineExport
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Back to the idea of sampling; even in its most rudimentary state the "sampler" is creating a new "arrangement" of the original work. That is something that, as an orchestral performer, you might be familiar with. This has been going on for centuries... new writers rewrite (arrange) the works of others.
We can also consider WHAT the sampler is sampling. Why do conductors chose the works that they perform? Generally it is a piece that has some personal significance to them or a large segment of the society. I think the same is true of the sampler. They take a piece that has personal significance to them or their audience and make it "their own".
I’m not saying that arranging and sampling are the “same”, but the theory truly is.
We can also consider WHAT the sampler is sampling. Why do conductors chose the works that they perform? Generally it is a piece that has some personal significance to them or a large segment of the society. I think the same is true of the sampler. They take a piece that has personal significance to them or their audience and make it "their own".
I’m not saying that arranging and sampling are the “same”, but the theory truly is.
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MaineExport
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VimyJ wrote:To get back to my original point about sampling, if someome samples a copyrighted work without the permission of the artist then it is stealing. Why should my views on that matter be open to any who claim such behavior is not stealing? The material is copyrighted. If the sampler is too ignorant to compose his or her own material and resorts to stealing, why should I have to compromise my view?
Let's face it, most people who sample are ignorant of how to make those complicated sounds on their own. There should be little argument in that.
I have pointed out using facts (anecdotal and objective) that the music industry is in a tail spin. There are less clubs and less musicians per capita than at any time in the last 100 yrs. I daresay that there are less musicians period than there were 100, 50, 25 or 10 years ago. This is a fact.
My musician friends, who have children, start their kids on instruments and have them formally study music. However, few of them encourage their kids to persue it as a profession because there just isn't much of a future in it as a performer. The venues are disappearing. Technology is displacing instrumentalists. The community grows smaller day by day. These are the sad facts that I see because I am within the scene. You have shown that because you are outside of the scene, you are unaware of these facts. Inside or outside makes no difference to the observations if one remains objective.
NONE of what you have said in this post is or was in contention.
I did say, however, that my experience has been the opposite in regard to the number of venues for performing musicians. The two cities I have called home for the last 10 years have experienced a dramatic growth in the performing arts.
And again... I see the "scene" from inside and out. My livelihood is not at stake, so the health of the industry has little impact over my sustenance. But, I do supplement my income by performing, and MOST importantly... it is a creative outlet for me. So, I have a reasonable understanding of what is happening. I also have a perspective from an educational standpoint. .