KA vs. SR could get ugly

[DonDonati88]

Can we say parts?? Can we say, the KA is about one of the most ubiquitous engines here in the US? I can get SR parts for cheap......where??? And who has an SR? Everyone.

oh damn another one...go back to the NA forum..where u boast about 17 sec quarter miles and homemade intakes...:peace

everyone knows that with proper tuning an SR has more potential to :spank a ka-t

[DonDonati88]

"Technology is the only substitution for displacement"

=)

I'd go with an SR20det anyday over the KA.

nils

:bowdown

[DonDonati88]

Wow, and you are a moderator???

"The last 20 some od posts are all CRAP. Know one asked what engine was prefered. No one asked what was more original. The SR20 isn't original guys, they come in Altima's. Try the RB series for originality."

- Eehhh, I actually had a post in this thread about originality and how it doesnt make any difference in the racing world, guess you didnt see it.

"I haven't heard any good arguments as to why the SR would actually be better. I could make a KA with a stock bottom end hit 300hp at the wheels easily. So you can't say that its weak."

- I could, I would, I should......

"Where is the factuall evidence I was looking forward to reading. All I saw was " well everyone knows the SR will smoke a highmileage KA" what a line of BS."

- False, read the whole thread again. Where is your FACTUAL evidence?

"I don't even own a KA yet, so don't go flaming about how I have pride in the OEM stuff. I'm actually a bigger fan of the RB series, which I've been racing for the last 4 years."

- Yeah, I bet you have.... you "original racer" you....

"The hole thing about technology being a sub for displacement is retarded. Simply apply the same technology to the engine with more displacement...not hard to figure that one out."

- So why arent you racing a V12, or a V10, or a V8?

"Lets hear some good facts or particular reasoning behind why the SR should be favored, or vice versa."

- The aftermarket alone would convince any SERIOUS racer to favor the sr20det over the KA.

I cant believe such an ignorant post has been made by a moderator...... I'm looking for a new forum to frequent.

Lets let actions speak louder than words, all you KA lovers go and prove how good the engine is... actually go out and race them... give them a good reputation... all this talk is really tiring.

the SR20det has NOTHING to prove, it is a legend in the country of its origin and has won numerous JGTC titles...

nils240racing.com

:bowdown :bowdown

[DonDonati88]

alll of you SHUT UP, it's a matter of opinion, tastes ETC. SO SHUT UP ABOUT IT!

[DonDonati88]

DonDonati88, Please stop quoting people and posting your stupid smilies. Why don't you add something valid to the argument instead of wasting bandwith.

And then shoot yourself.

:moon :youwon

[ZeAl240]

well i am going to have to go w/ sr on this one because of things i have seen like the signal cars and other lil goodies like that but anyway .. all you people that love the ka so much i have one for sell here in bout 2 or 3 months ... cause my sr is going in .. it will have bout 90 000 on it then .. its got act stage 3 clutch.. and an intake ... you would spend double the money makin a ka as fast as an sr.... if anyone wants a turbo ka and lives in the south there is one in mobile..its pretty nice ..

[ZeAl240]

i agree on that(the stop fighting issue) prove it on the track or road ..if its fast i like it .i just killed a huge drift coming out the mall w/ my ka w/ a damn intake .so i say 240's in general r the best bang for ur buck .. and if u love these kas so much please give me 1000 for mine...lol.. so i can pay someone to install my sr.

[ZeAl240]

my point in one picture

[WDRacing]

Question for anyone, My 95 240 is running with 99,000 miles now, Do you think it would be better to drop in an SR or add a T03/04 hybrid???? appreciate any inputs

Did you read the last 7 pages before making this post?? If you had, you would have realized that if there was an opinion to be had, then everyone already posted it. I've read several high mileage based opinions in this thread.

You also shouldn't jump into the middle of a thread and ask a question. This only takes the thread topic off to directions not originally intended.

If you would like some advice on this matter, please read through some of the threads already posted. Especially this one...Also don't forget the search function as well. I know for a fact that you will be able to find good info already on here about your question.

Daunttless, one of the Mods on this site, decides what expression goes under your screen name. You can email him if you would like it changed...lol.

WD

[WDRacing]

If it were that simple Luis, Would I have needed to make a post at all explaining it to you?? Believe me, I'm here to help if I can. By all means, if you can't find the answer to your questions after you've done a little research. I'll be more then happy to assist you in any way possible.

WD

[WDRacing]

1500 views...thats alot of readers. It's unfortunate that we didn't nail down and debate any real specifics about either engine. Everything went a little off track...

I'd actually like to talk about the weaknesses of the SR's valvetrain. As well as talk to someone who actually has a high powered SR. I know I live in Japan, but I fell in with the Skyline croud as soon as I got here.

But Japan isn't America in any case, it's not like you guys can just stroll over to JUN or Veilside and ask for advice.

Perhaps when I get back to the states and see you guys at the track...

WD

[WDRacing]

OK, I learned 2 things:1. For whatever reason, I read the torque as the Hp on that dyno sheet...although the Hp still tapers off, it's nowhere near as drastic as the torque.

2. Those guys are just as sensitive about the KA as everyone else defending it in here.

The simple fact still remains, that was poor turbo sizing on the SR owner's part...that was not a fair comparison by any means. This dyno chart would be a much better comparison b/c it uses a t3/t4 (like the KA dyno), has no standalone, and no internal work at all.



Nice torque curve too!:-)

Those are some good numbers. I see his A/F never went beyond 12.2 it looks like. I've found the absolute best power while still remaining knock free was made at 12.7. Although I did run at 13 even a few times. But I also went through 5 RB20's in the last 3 years. But it sure is fun before they pop.

[WDRacing]

Like it says, lets here all the different views on the swap. Should we stay with the KA and turbo it, or go with the SR20DET. Lets try to keep things factual if possible...thx for all the input.

WD

[WDRacing]

Done...

[WDRacing]

Actually, for the sake of argument. Lets assume that both engines were properly driven and maintained. Both engines will have say 50,000 miles. Just to keep the scenerio fair.

Personally I love the RB26, have for years. But I'm really interested to see valid points about which engine is better and for what reasons. Meaning the SR or KA, we all know they don't compare to the RB26.

I'm also not really interested in what engine is rare, or I would use an RB30DET from Australia. Just simply a heads up competition between the SR and KA. Assuming the KA is turbo'd of course.

Thx WD

[WDRacing]

KS_Honda_Killer...very nicely put. Basically my sentiments exactly, accept for the CA part. Nice motor, great design but lacks the cubic inches. Really to bad Nissan didn't take the CA and make it a bit bigger. That would be a real head turner, right up there with the RB26 IMHO.

I figured this thread would explode with nasty posts, but when all things are actually considered, both motors are decent platforms. Highly dependent on preference towards torque or revs.

WD

[WDRacing]

The last 20 some od posts are all CRAP. No one asked what engine was prefered. No one asked what was more original. The SR20 isn't original guys, they come in Altima's. Try the RB series for originality.

I haven't heard any good arguments as to why the SR would actually be better. I could make a KA with a stock bottom end hit 300hp at the wheels easily. So you can't say that its weak.

Where is the factuall evidence I was looking forward to reading. All I saw was " well everyone knows the SR will smoke a highmileage KA" what a line of BS.

I don't even own a KA yet, so don't go flaming about how I have pride in the OEM stuff. I'm actually a bigger fan of the RB series, which I've been racing for the last 4 years.

The hole thing about technology being a sub for displacement is retarded. Simply apply the same technology to the engine with more displacement...not hard to figure that one out.

Lets hear some good facts or particular reasoning behind why the SR should be favored, or vice versa.

WD

[WDRacing]

Wow, and you are a moderator???

"The last 20 some od posts are all CRAP. Know one asked what engine was prefered. No one asked what was more original. The SR20 isn't original guys, they come in Altima's. Try the RB series for originality."

- Eehhh, I actually had a post in this thread about originality and how it doesnt make any difference in the racing world, guess you didnt see it.

"I haven't heard any good arguments as to why the SR would actually be better. I could make a KA with a stock bottom end hit 300hp at the wheels easily. So you can't say that its weak."

- I could, I would, I should......

"Where is the factuall evidence I was looking forward to reading. All I saw was " well everyone knows the SR will smoke a highmileage KA" what a line of BS."

- False, read the whole thread again. Where is your FACTUAL evidence?

"I don't even own a KA yet, so don't go flaming about how I have pride in the OEM stuff. I'm actually a bigger fan of the RB series, which I've been racing for the last 4 years."

- Yeah, I bet you have.... you "original racer" you....

"The hole thing about technology being a sub for displacement is retarded. Simply apply the same technology to the engine with more displacement...not hard to figure that one out."

- So why arent you racing a V12, or a V10, or a V8?

"Lets hear some good facts or particular reasoning behind why the SR should be favored, or vice versa."

- The aftermarket alone would convince any SERIOUS racer to favor the sr20det over the KA.

I cant believe such an ignorant post has been made by a moderator...... I'm looking for a new forum to frequent.

Lets let actions speak louder than words, all you KA lovers go and prove how good the engine is... actually go out and race them... give them a good reputation... all this talk is really tiring.

the SR20det has NOTHING to prove, it is a legend in the country of its origin and has won numerous JGTC titles...

nils240racing.com

Hey NILS, buddy, I'm not trying to start a KA is better post. I'm trying to get some info and proven opinions on which motor is better and for why. Just as I said.

By me saying that alot of posts previous to my apparent outburst were crap, is because they made absolutely no effort to support they're arguments.

I have had all V8's my entire life, I've ownwd everything from a 77 Caprice to a 1990 Formula 350.

Then I cam to Japan and started driving Skylines...nuff said about that. My point was that you simply can't say technology will generate a better motor. Both the KA and SR are based on the same years of production. Technology can be applied to both.

New topic...

There is enough aftermarket to generate some quick KA's. Most parts can quickly be custom made as well.

I was hoping to get some very different points and views on this thread. But it seems like everyone is content to just argue blindly.

Oh, as far as being a Moderator is concerned. If by me using the word crap, has bothered anyone, I'm extremely sorry. But there isn't any rule that says Mods have to be sissies. 99% of us live in the most abrasive country in the world. Thank god for America...

In the future I will try to post a tad bit more professionally, I keep forgetting that civilian types are weak...lol. I'm just kidding...really, I'm not out to piss people off.

Oh, and Stuofsci02...If the SR guys could have read what you posted, they would also have told you that you were completely incorrect. That is the reason you got dealt with the way you did. You can't just post misinformation like that to a person who earnestly wants help. You'll get people into trouble doing that.

I think we all need a group hug

Remember, most of the guys on this forum love the SR and some may prefer the KA, heck I'll take the RB over most other engine ever built. But we all love Nissans...

Lets work on getting the best possible SR/KA as possible.

PEACE, I'm outWD

[WDRacing]

Just for the record, having never driven in a KADET powered 240, I drove my buddies 180 powered by the usual SR20 with a TD06. That car had serious balls...Of course I beat him with my Skyline...8)...But he was only running 15psi to my 28. The SR just revs so quickly...

However.com I love torque. I know it's quite possible with a full crank job and valvetrain work. To take the KA to 7500 rpm. Throw on a 300zx lightened flywheel and she'll rev towards redline pretty fast aswell.

Oh, one more thing. It's a far easer goal to have the fastest KA powered 240 in the world then it is an SR powered 240. Which by the way will be held by me as soon as I get back. I might even go for the goal of beating out all the streey legal SR's. We'll see, either way it will be fun as hell.

NILS....lmao....2JZ....I'll take my RB26....Course, I will always respect the big 3 liter.

WD

[WDRacing]

Of course they could use the little red button...8)

WD

[WDRacing]

Speaking of KA weaknesses. : ) I don't really want to get into the debate, but wheres the comments on vibration and the crank. Demcj? : )

She does tend to vibrate a bit. But I'm quite sure with a good crank job...lol...I said crank job, that you'll be able to get rid of the vibration and increase the revs of the KA. Not by any big margin, but enough for tad bit longer power curve.

WD

[WDRacing]

WD, I gotcha back. You were right it got ugly.

Nah, no one threatened to kill anybody, this forum is all love...how it should be

[WDRacing]

1/4 mile racing is a world completely seperate from all other forms of racing. In 1/4 mile racing, your wallet is your only limit. With enough money, any motor has potential to drag. In the past though, stroker motors have always done well in drag, so I'm sure the KA can do very well. Too bad nobody has put the money into making an all-out KA-drag motor, and because of this, I can't fairly say which would be better. Just a FYI, the fastest SR I know of is the 8 sec Jun car and I've seen quite a few 9-10sec silvia's with sr's from the Aussies.

Well put, this is the exact reason I'm going to build the worlds fastest KA powered 240. No one on these forums has enough dough to build a 240 to compete with companies like HKS. But no one does the KA. So aside from a few locals, all I have to do is run 2 9.5's in the same day.

Just to be able to say I have the fastest anything is worth the extra mile to me.

See you guys at the track in about a year.

WD

[WDRacing]

I only need 3 things made custom from what I researched already. Intake, Exhaust mani and huge cams with no overlap. I already found the companies that will be glad to do it for a reduced price to have there names on the car. Not quite sponsored, but I'll take what I can get.

WD

[WDRacing]

Nah, not closing this one. It's been viewed over 2000 times. I figure somebody is reading don't you??

Nils made a good point and coming from a Supra guy, he knows all about dyno comparisons. What do a 450 and a 600 hp Supra have in common?? They both run 12's...lol.

Really though, I prefer track times personally. But that throws in driver, suspension and all those other variables.

Madsi, I have a spare "O" if ya need one man. I'll seeya out at Mizugama when my parts get here for my Miata project.

WD

[WDRacing]

ha ha ha... lol....

I love moderators with big mouths.

n

btw - you got a website or something with your racing accomplishments?

Heh...I thought you would like that post. I must admit I stole it from the Supra forums from a few years back. There was big GTR vs. MKIV debate going on.

Big mouth...yep...I'm sure I'll get talking to eventually.

No web page...sorry. I've been stuck with dial up for the last 6 years.

The only racing experience I have is some minimal track time when I lived in FL and pure street racing over here in Japan.

........................................................................................................

Looks like the end of this thread is starting to get some more deliberation. Being a fan of displacement myself makes me lean towards the KA. The revs can be increased, its just that no one has done it. If so, then I haven't talked with them. My car will have a rev limit set to 7200 with optimal shifting right around 7000. But I'll have to wait and see what the dyno barfs up to make any final desiscions.

That would put my KA far beyond most SR's. Peak HP is for Honda's. I can say that, I've owned 2 and hated both. Give me a torque curve and I'll be happy.

WD

[WDRacing]

ha ha... lol... I know what you mean, alot of supra owners call Supraforums "moronforums" =) alot of **** talkers on there.

...ouch, dial up...

I am assuming you drag race?... you should try road racing sometime =)

take care,nils

I have based all my attention on drag specific vehicles. All three of my last Skylines were built for drag only. But I just parted out my last one.

My new ride is the Miata...probably the funnest car I've ever driven next to the MR2 turbo. I'm building this one for the island twisties. Its alot different driving a car with no turbo lag.

WD

[Bill]

KA is better

I havent been beat by a SR yet

[Bill]

3. Competition? If you want to post dyno charts of fully built KA's trying to prove that they have this great torque and power, then I will post dyno charts of fully built SR's. It's simple. To trophies. No prizes.

Take a look at this...If anything the SR has more/better mods. For example a greddy intake manifold.

KA-T vs. SR similar mods comparision

[Bill]

Dead link...

Try it again the site was down.

KA-T Vs. SR comparision

As you can see the SR has the advantage too:

SR: 1. TecII EMS 2. JWT S4 cams 3. HKS 3037 4. Greddy intake manifold

KA:1. JWT chip (un-tuned)2. 91 stock cams3. T3/T04E4. Stock intake manifold

The SR made 357rwhp and 270rwtqThe KA made 347rwhp and 337rwtq

The KA had a much flatter power band; almost straight across