KA vs. SR could get ugly

Information on the naturally-aspirated KA24E and KA24DE engines.
Cyberkreig
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demcj wrote:what get's me is if the SR is such an interesting engine, why do so many of you SR guys spend so much time in the KA forum?

-demetrius


Probably becasue every USDM 240 came with a KA in it. 90% of us didnt just pickup a scrapped car and put an SR in it. We drove our cars with the stock motor in it, we broke it, and we fixed it. Soem of us have even driven/lived with KA's longer than SR's.. Point being, maybe we know a thing or two about them and can lend a hand.


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SR180SX
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I have done KA turbo and SR swap... SR is my choice

I know few other people love their KA turbo, but most of them has SR now...

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SR180SX
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the KA-T is that the stock internal? 15psi is really high for KA stock internal, I used to have KA-T and only boost 7psi.. I wonder how long 15psi will last for KA

SR are more fun to drive than KA:)

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bp2ooo
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matt thats funny as hell. Its not like the sr has no potential. It could probably be decent in supra. And who knows, maybe it made a significant weight difference. Anyways matt the red 240 is mine, so yes the black wheels if those are the wheels you like are mine. They are powder coated black. If you talking about the banner under my sig thats my friend integra. Limited edition rotas. Very few made.

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bp2ooo
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Have you guys ever seen a ka24de swapped into a supra? Or in an rx7? or many other cars. Nope, and have you seen an sr20det powered supra.rx7, yup. I think sr is the way to go. I dont know why someone might want a sr over a 2jz, but its been done. Also ive read many time that stock sr internals are good up to 400-450 hp. With all the ka guys claiming they have to build at 300 hp. And when you build you probably wont replace all componets. Like alternator/starter/oil pump. Has anyone ever done an oil pump on a ka. IT SUCKS! with a 30,000 mile motor i dont see as much money being spent on minor repairs. I looked into this alot. I once wanted a turbo on my ka, and use nitrous to get turbo spooled quicker, but i bought an sr. Ka can be fast as hell, dont get me wrong. Both are great motors. Also what about parts availablity, yea there are more oem ka parts in america. Who wants oem stuff? when something breaks you replace it with a upgraded/performance part and then it shouldn't break again. Have the ka guys seen all the stuff available for the sr? Have you seen a intake manifold that makes almost 15 hp at 5000 rpms. Well greddy makes one for the sr. When you get into really high hp numbers almsot everything on the ka has to be custom, but you can call pahse2 and order anything you possibly could need for the sr and get it alot quicker. Why would someone want to buy a custom fuel rail which might be good, or might suck, when they can buy an hks they know works good, get injectors that drop in with mods and have a warranty?

SR ALL THE WAY.

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bp2ooo
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[quote=" matt0941 The remark about the SR replacing the 2JZGT(T)E in a Supra :rolleyes , just because someone did it doesn't make it right. It makes me think of a disabled child trying to fit two legs through one pant leg.

And bp2ooo, yoour point is pretty weak. Trying to say that it doesn't matter that there are KAs everywhere and you can pick up parts from them for dirt cheap; because it is better to buy upgraded parts. This is just flawed logic. Your KA part breaks, you have it running in a day for $50 bucks. Your SR part breaks, you have to wait a month (generalization) and $200 later your car is running. Give me a break, trying to rationalize the fact that there are alot of aftermarket engine parts for SRs makes everything ok.. yea ok. I could name so many parts on an SR that you don't want or don't need aftermarket, so don't say that cr*p.[/quote] First of all i dont understand the supra swap. Like i said i dont know why. As far as the sr20det into the rx7. The rx7 actually does really good in come races. I remember reading about it. But i agree with you that its retarded to swap out a 2jz for a sr.

As far as parts go, my main point about that was less custom work. Not everyone knows good shops, or has alot of money. if they get a ka and want a crazy trubo setup like t78 is there a bolt up kit made? not that ive come across atleast, but ive seen them for the sr. Does jun make a stroker kit for ka? They do for the sr. so what i was saying is parts are more readily available without as much custom work needing to be done. As far as a daily driver goes, yea ka would be better. Cheaper to fix and parts ever and 50 dollars to fix a motor is probably right. But for those of us who are doing this as a hobby, id pay 200 for the part if it was better and helped with performance vs a 50 dollar oem part. Not trying to start and argument, just making my point clear.

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bp2ooo
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This thread should be a faq page for people who just got a 240, and cant decide what motor they want. Just about every difference between the motor has been talked about, so they will get good info.

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bp2ooo
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From what i have heard the greddy intake manifold isn't all that good and you probably wouldn't see a big if any hp imptovement.

The biggest reason i am going with sr is it will probably end up being cheaper then trying to build a ka to its potential. I could be wrong, but after all this is just a hobby to the majority of us. I know it is to me.

BuudWeizErr
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SR20. Best choice for me.

BuudWeizErr
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The problem with what KS_Honda_Killers points are the fact that 99% of tuners do not have the unlimited budget that would allow them to reach high numbers with either engine. For those on a budget, the SR is going to be the better option. I got into an argument with somebody on garageTUNERS about this same thing. The entry price for an SR20DET is $2200. The entry price for a turbo kit on a high mileage KA is at least $3000. Plus if your engine is high mileage, you're going to want at least a minor rebuild and probably a major rebuild with some decent internals if you want good numbers out of a KA. The same does not ring true with the SR. Sure, the SR will need a rebuild to put down 600HP. I think most engines would. If someone had $4000 to put down, they could get an SR, and if they do it right, they can get an intercooler and boost controller and be making 250HP. With a KA, if you're going to do it right, you need a rebuild, like I said.

Also, back to the iron vs aluminum, aluminum dissipates heat better than iron does, and we are all aware that power is lost through heat. But truthfully, thats neither here nor there.

Personally, I don't like the KA, and I won't recommend a KA. But that's my opinion, others may choose as you feel, doesn't affect me. Maybe that's because mine was a KA-E, but I doubt it.

If I was given unlimited funds, I could convert a FWD GA16DE from a 200SX to RWD, put it in my 240 and make it put down 500HP. That doesn't mean it's the best or smartest way for it to be done.

BuudWeizErr
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Nils = My Hero

I have made the same point on other forums when I was arguing for the SR. I haven't had any offers from anybody in Japan or Australia or Europe to buy my KA24 for $2000. Hell, I can't give it away. There is a reason why the SR is so popular. It's not a fad, and it's not the cool thing to do. It's the best idea if you want to make the most power for the least money. Done Deal.

KA vs SR fights are lame. I think I'm going to quit arguing for the SR, and just start letting everyone believe WTF ever they want to. I'll just race my car.

And honestly WD, I would expect a bit more maturity from a moderator.EDIT: And where do you live? Oh, Japan. Where you have 100x easier access to stuff that we have a hard time getting, and probably some stuff we don't even know about.

sapix @ RHIT
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Either engine will respond well when modified. I think this comes down to the same thing the SR vs CA or the CA vs KA comes down to. Its all about preference. KAs got more displacement and more torque. The SR revs higher and smoother. When properly cared for they can both put down some very impressive numbers. The KA is usually considered weak, you hear all kinds of stories about them breaking when boosted, but this is only because of poor fuel management. The KA being NA from the factory I suppose requires a little closer watch on the fuel management department but the SR needs the same thing.

Personally I prefer the KA, like they say, no replacement for displacement. My second choice in engines would be a CA. Nothing against the SR, but its not my brand of vodka. Just my opinion.

Structure240sx
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Plus if you want to race a car with goobs of torque pick up a trans am or an SS camaro they are plenty good for planting the back of your head to your headrest at any RPM.

thats what i was planning on until i thought about how much insurance would be on one for a new 17 year old driver in NJ for any of them made int he past 10 years (the model's im in love with) i've been back and forth about which way to go and yea to get the sr swap done would be cheaper. but my reason for sticking with the KA once its time to turbo is simply the parts availiblitiy. being able to have a small block sittin in my garage will be the best insurance for me. and a lot cheaper too my uncle has bought and sold cores for the past 5 years he knows everyone around here

cosmo
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JESTER wrote: But this is and is always gonna be a debate of opinion. Which is an un-win-able argument.


Exactly. It's a preference thing. Both have it's ups and downs.

I'd go with the SR, but that's just me.

TheProfessional
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WD, point well taken. and good encouragement. this may sound stupid, but there truly does need to be more uplifting conversation on this site, not flame every chance you get. here's my 2 cents. i sold a 13 second JRSC honda si for my 95 240. so i went from a quick and fun 13 second car to a what, 16 second car? immediately i was all "im getting an sr20 right away," but as time goes on, i grow closer to my KA. now ill admit, i dont know everything about the two motors, but i can tell you... i drift around as many corners as possible in high rpms with my 95K KA, and the thing runs perfectly. the power band with 160 weak HP, is somehow pleasing. now, one can not argue the point, "look at the japanese all they use is sr20's," because they didnt get KA's in all their 240's. but we did, and its a very STRONG point about the reassurance of buying a full KA swap at under 500 bucks... period! anyway, ill keep you posted in what i chose to go with. PS- WD ill be in japan for 8 days in April, and a ride in a skyline would be ok..... :) email me bro. thanks guys.

TheProfessional
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where do you get KA turbo kits for 1250?! thanks.

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Dano
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an idea...save ure money, swap in sr20 and while the KA is out, rebuild it, slap on a turbo...then u can buy a dirtcheap engineless junkyard 240 and throw it in...bam, sr and ka-t powered cars...woo hoo... j/k

Hey...even tho its not budget friendly or realisitic to most of the younger car enthusiasts like myself...it IS an idea....

-Dan

MojoMan
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The numbers speak for them selves. If the ka is so bad azz then why dont they use it in the silvia in japan and abroad. maybe some do but not many. Ive owned my 96 240sx se for almost 41/2 yrs and my sr20det for 3 yrs And theres a big scene in dallas and only a couple are ka-ts' and they like them but for the money they would have done the sr swap. the ka cant even hold the boost the sr can. It couldnt even barley hold a 60 shot of NOS. The sr head gasket holds 18 pounds and up to 25 onthe block. thats pushing it but its true. rb motor are great but slightly more expensive and more detailed to instal. the sr swap is easy. all the info is on the web. The ka is a very strong block but not built for performance. But then again alot of cars arent either. The crank cant suppot much power. The sr can. sr sr sr sr sr sr sr sr sr sr. Were all different and different opinions. Theres not one perfect motor between the two but the sr outways the ka. I cant sell my ka motor and transmission for 200 bucks. sr parts are widley available anyways. half the s*** I get at courtesy nissan in dallas and then on top of that theres boost factor and ctc motorsports. cali theres plenty. east coast. plenty. online. plenty.The ka I believe does not have the oil squirters and the ka does. The valve train is stronger. The transmission in the ka sucks. I know. The syncros are s***. The sr you can slam into every gear without a grind. performance baby. yeah.

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erich
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I own a KA24DE Turbocharget 91 240sx with a built bottom end and 9.0:1 custom Wiseco pistons. I run about 10PSI.I have driven a SR20 RedTop S14. Stock as far as I know.I'll take the KA over the SR any day. Yes the SR is smoother and revs higher. Who cares. The KA is WAAAAAY more fun on the street. Fix the weakest link of the KA (the pistons) and you are good for 300HP with no worries. Change the rods and go for 400-450. With gobs of torque that no SR can match.

erich

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themadscientist
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Preach on brother! Valid points all.

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themadscientist
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E15 rules!I would have to say that both motors have potential and it should be a case by case decision which one is "better" for each application. People told me my L20ET was junk till I started pacing next to L3.1 high comps and 1JZ turbo Mark IIs. They told me my CA18DE non-turbo project was a waste of time till I started chewing on RB20DETs with it. Blanket statements are so misleading, use your own judgement, weigh the Pros and Cons of each motor, look at what you want the engine to do and how much budget you have. I'm so poor I can't buy the "O" "R", I'm just po! This caused me to wrench on cheap to acquire "inferior motors", I regret nothing, I had fun and made a lot of people look stupid. Do't follow trends do what is best FOR YOU AND YOUR APPLICATION.

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matt0941
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Who is ripping you off man, 6k for the engine? Even with installation it shouldn't be anymore than 5k.

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matt0941
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Why the hell don't you use the search function eh? I hated those guys that just said what I did but you deserve it asking questions like that, jesus.:boxing

WD please delete the last couple of posts.

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matt0941
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So people can be like "DAMN braaaa, that car used to be fast now it's slow!" :rolleyes

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matt0941
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Point taken, but realisticly speaking... are you willing to pay $6,000 for a stroker kit? I could have a pretty nice car with that amount of money, but each to his own I guess. Nice wheels BTW if that is your ride.

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matt0941
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WDRacing wrote:Daunttless, one of the Mods on this site, decides what expression goes under your screen name. You can email him if you would like it changed
People will make fun of you with that "Driving Mom's Car" stuff Luis. Best thing to do is take WD's advice trust me on this one, just politely flood Daunttless with emails asking for it changed.

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matt0941
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Well I was pretty much in the same bucket that you are in right now. I liked the SR and the KA and couldn't decide what to do. The determining factor for me was emissions and the legality of the motor. I am not sure what your rules in NY are but I doubt they are less Lax than in IL. We have no visual inspection but I would fail the part where they plug in the computer definately if I went SR. And thats ok cause I would probably pass the sniffer/dyno. But all that will change as of 2004 where I would have to pass the OBDII test in order to pass emissions, and that would not be doable. So pretty much KA for me, also not to mention that the SR was never registered here as a legal motor. On that note here is a question to any expert. Since MotoRex got the papers to import GT-Rs into the US does that mean that the RB26DETT is now a registered engine? Any input on this would be great, thanks.

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matt0941
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DonDonati88, Please stop quoting people and posting your stupid smilies. Why don't you add something valid to the argument instead of wasting bandwith.

And then shoot yourself.

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matt0941
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DonDonati88 wrote::moon :youwon


WDRacing - as for the comment about there not being death threats, I don't know how much longer I can hold back.

As for stuofsci02, I was the one who had a post about turboing the KA. You came in and gave your opinion and did not give any valid information (which you should be ashamed of) that held little to no truth (I am verging on no). I would just like to say that I am glad that Demcj deleted your posts. Because you know what? People come onto these boards and some of them read your misinformation, then they leave. They don't see the follow ups that clarify it, and that really sucks.

As for the KA vs SR, I really don't know yet, I am still deciding. What it really comes down to for me is legality, money, as well as availabilty

1) For all you ***holes that think your funny by saying "I don't see any people swapping KAs into their silvias in Japan!" That is not a valid argument. We have the KA, and all though this has been stressed it may not have been stressed enough. Stock to stock the SR wins, but thats an added $3,000. What can we do with that $3,000 on the stock motor, many people ask themselves. Remember, we don't live in Japan (besides WD - lucky bastard).

2) The SR was never tested for the EPA and CARB. Aftermarket turbo setups on the KA were never tested for CARB and are considered to defeat emissions controls. Say I were to get busted for having a turbo on my KA. I would much rather have an aftermarket turbo and then remove it than be in a situation in which I have an engine that was never registered in the US. To many people this could not make a difference but I am looking for a daily driver and I am a bit of a paranoid guy. Again, to each his own.

The remark about the SR replacing the 2JZGT(T)E in a Supra :rolleyes , just because someone did it doesn't make it right. It makes me think of a disabled child trying to fit two legs through one pant leg.

This thread has been a joke so far and is a waste of bandwith. In no point during reading this did I feel I was being fed wholesome unbiased information. And even if we did create a FAQ of which motor one should go with, I feel that it would hold some bias, no matter who wrote it. I am still undecided but by no means am I unbiased I could argue either way.

And bp2ooo, yoour point is pretty weak. Trying to say that it doesn't matter that there are KAs everywhere and you can pick up parts from them for dirt cheap; because it is better to buy upgraded parts. This is just flawed logic. Your KA part breaks, you have it running in a day for $50 bucks. Your SR part breaks, you have to wait a month (generalization) and $200 later your car is running. Give me a break, trying to rationalize the fact that there are alot of aftermarket engine parts for SRs makes everything ok.. yea ok. I could name so many parts on an SR that you don't want or don't need aftermarket, so don't say that cr*p.

As far as my pending decision about which motor to go with, I will still need substantial information about legality of each process. After that is determined I will also take the mileage of the 240 into consideration, and make a choice weighing all of the facts. I hope that all of you (if you haven't already that is) make decisions based on rational thought processes (atleast I think its rational) rather than going for that "Tigheeeet JDM SR setup" just because its from Japan or going for that "Torquey *** OEM KA-T" just because you'll be original.

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matt0941
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wow thats pretty stupid of them to say if they are actually saying that, but i am glad SOMEONE is trying to come to conclusions. I think that is what we need on this forum, we need to be coming to conlusion rather than fighting old arguments. IE we argue but eventually say, "Ok you have a point, so I guess if you wanted a car for **** with **** budget you should pick the ***" then we would be making some progress, but yea yea I know, its easy to criticize. As for f1seb, yea I didn't mean to criticize you for having a shop do your stuff I just thought that the total would be less, looks like heavy throttle has your balls in a vice. I wouldn't recommend doing it on your own unless your very good with electrics, hell I am having a shop do my KA-T probably.

P.S. I will be using my KA-T for Race, Track, and AutoX. I don't think that the KA's powerband is limited to the strip whatsoever (sp?). And when you are drifting you don't really wanna be redlining it either...


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