CVT Rattle/Noise - Discussion Thread

[kerrton]

Philip that is interesting, a little different scenario than most who report the noise.

Do you feel the noise is getting progressively worse, albeit slowly, or is it remaining relatively constant?

[flybooey]

So, the trans was replaced and things were fine for 8000 miles when it started again. Noises slowly but progressively returned as they did the first time.I dropped by today and they had it for about 45 minutes and the SM came across the lot to find me, he looked pretty sad and maybe a little concerned about how i would react. This one has "failed" as well. So this will be the second replacement in 15k miles. My 08' Rogue with 15k on it will have had three transmissions installed since it rolled off the line.

Bought new with 5 miles on the clock.At 7k miles the first replacementAt 15k miles the second replacement.

Kind of at a bit of a loss for words

DaveExcept that the dealer has been fantastic, which it rare as you know.

Mine is in today for the repair (what repair? mech just said "it sounds strange") Anyway, they are replacing the transmission/transaxle to a tune of about 5 grand or so. I asked if any fluids were drained to look for evidence of anything and the reply was no. I am very happy that something is being done but I don't want parts just thrown at it. I will report back what ever info I can squeeze out of them. Hopefully I can talk to the Mech who did the diagnosis and the repair. Maybe he's the one that left the huge *** oil stain on the armrest????

Modified by flybooey at 2:56 AM 5/9/2009

[williammoses]

Guess some Nissan Rogue owners are going to be learning a lot more about automatic transmission. I came across an article on automatic transmission replacement and thought I might share an excerpt from it:

"A lot of replacement transmissions get trashed by dirt and debris in the system. What most people miss when the transmission is rebuilt, or convertor replaced, is the transmission cooler in the radiator, or an auxiliary cooler. If those are not flushed THOROUGHLY, the debris from the previous transmission failure will destroy the next transmission in short order. The majority of the warranty repeat failures we see are caused by re-using a converter or improperly flushing the cooler. This is witnessed by a failure rate in dealer replaced transmission of 3 times the rate of factory installed transmissions." Source: 'http://www.oldsmobilewiki.com/index.php ... nsmissions'

I don't know why replacement transmission are failing in Nissan Rogues, but I do know that the automatic transmission expert that wrote these words speaks froma wealth of experience.

[kerrton]

That's interesting, I believe the transmission cooler would only apply to the AWD Rogues, don't think the FWD drives have that. In a FWD CVT replacement I wonder if there is anything that they would have to flush out, in the absence of any transmission cooler?

[williammoses]

Kerrton, you're a kick.

[kerrton]

Soooooo, what do you think is the answer to my question......anyone?

[philipa_240sx]

Soooooo, what do you think is the answer to my question......anyone?

FWD Rogue's do not have a conventional transmission fluid cooler. Instead they have an internal fluid cooler which is built into the transmission. Engine coolant is routed from the engine through the internal fluid cooler and back to the engine. There is little to clean aside from flushing clean coolant through the fluid cooler. Since the fluid cooler is built in, replacing the transmission replaces the internal fluid cooler as well.

AWD Rogue's have the same internal transmission fluid cooler AND an external fluid cooling radiator mounted in front of the engine radiator (on the lower RH corner when viewed from the front). This fluid/oil cooler is the same type you would expect to find on a conventional automatic transmission. The manual specifically states that the external fluid cooling radiator should be cleaned/flushed as part of transmission service or replacement. If alot of debris is found, the manual states the fluid cooling radiator should be replaced and the lines flushed out.

There is also a Nissan Tech Bulletin: # NTB00056 - SB Nissan; 1988 and Later Nissan Vehicles Automatic Transmission Oil Cooler Cleaning. You can find it in the Official Rogue FAQ under Tech Service Bulletins. It basically states the same thing as the manual. Here is the entire TSB:

NTB00056 - SB Nissan; 1988 and Later Nissan Vehicles Automatic Transmission Oil Cooler Cleaning

[kerrton]

Thanks for the great info., that makes me wonder if a contaminated/dirty fluid cooler is the cause of repeat CVT failures on AWD Rogues.

Since mine is a FWD I'm optimistic that the new CVT will last a couple hundred thousand km's. Now that I've got 6000km on the new transmission, maybe I should have Nissan check the CVT fluid at my next oil change to make sure there are no signs of excessive wear.

Hey Philip, you've got a lot of miles on your car; have you had the CVT fluid checked as the regular maintence schedule specifies, and if so nothing out of the ordinary I guess?

[flybooey]

I got a call from my dealer here in Pittsburgh regarding my transmission.He told me they were going to be ordering a new one and for it to be installed under warranty. The most shocking news was that there is a new transmission with a new part number obviously superceeding the one presently in my Rogue. The SM told me there has been a large number replaced and the issue has been addressed within the transmision itself and that's were the conversation ended.

Dave
Modified by flybooey at 5:57 PM 5/11/2009

[philipa_240sx]

Thanks for the great info., that makes me wonder if a contaminated/dirty fluid cooler is the cause of repeat CVT failures on AWD Rogues.

The Rogue's CVT computer monitors tranmission fluid temperature. If it 'overheats' the CVT computer will generate a fault, trigger the check engine light, and may enter a 'fail safe mode' to protect the transmission. Read pages 5-16 and 5-17 of your owners manual. If high fluid temperatures were causing CVT failure, I expect you would be noticing other problems.

Quote »Hey Philip, you've got a lot of miles on your car; have you had the CVT fluid checked as the regular maintence schedule specifies, and if so nothing out of the ordinary I guess?[/quote]I have checked the CVT fluid myself. Nothing out of the ordinary. The fluid is clear and at the correct level.

[philipa_240sx]

The most shocking news was that there is a new transmission with a new part number obviously superceeding the one presently in my Rogue. The SM told me there has been a large number replaced and the issue has been addressed within the transmision itself and that's were the conversation ended.Modified by flybooey at 5:57 PM 5/11/2009

Others have stated the same thing. A new transmission part number and the comment from the dealer the new transmission has some sort of 'improvement' or repair to prevent it from reoccurring. Still, there are some forum members on thier 3rd transmission. I have been trying to get to get any official word from Nissan that the CVT issue has been in fact resolved, but I can't get an answer.

[NissanCanada]

I am getting my transmission changed tomorrow. With only 15000 km, but I noticed the noise around 8k, I just didn't make anything off it until I joined this forum. The dealership didn't make a big beef about it, the simply identified the noise, and made the appointment. No questions asked.

[NissanCanada]

It appears like I won't be getting a new transmission today . The dealership told me that the transmission is on back order, so they're trying to see if they have any around Toronto or Montreal. and the waiting begins.

[philipa_240sx]

I am not surprised. CVT transmissions likely aren't stock items in the warehouse. When I had the engine replaced in my '03 Altima (under warranty), it took a couple of weeks to get one in.

BTW, the old engine's/transmissions are sent for disposal/recycling or back to Nissan. The dealers are not permitted to keep them.

[kcfm]

READ THIS RESPONSE FROM NISSAN:

So I sent in my vehicle defect notification report to Nissan a couple of weeks ago (re: transmission rattle). This is a required action before filing for a lemon law complaint. Nissan has 10 days to respond to the letter and it gives them one last chance to fix the car before filing under the lemon law.

Well yesterday was my designated appointment day to meet with the rep from Nissan. Well we went for a ride in my car so he could hear the rattle. Although not as loud as it is at other times, it was definitely audible. Well he refused to acknowledge that he heard anything out of the ordinary. So we went for a ride in a 2009 Rogue which turned out to be absolutely quiet. His was reply was he heard nothing different from one car to another.

While we were on our test drive I mentioned this forum and all the people that were having this same issue with their cars. I did get him to acknowledge that there is an issue with the AWD models but he said there are no complaints of any FWD models having this issue (which mine is). I told him that is B.S. because I know of at least a few other people on this forum alone with FWD models having the same problem. Some having gone through 3 transmission's already. He again replied that there are no documented cases of FWD Rogues having this problem. So I then proceeded to ask him why Nissan gave me a new transmission back in January for this problem if this problem doesn't exist? Get this response..... HE REPLIED TO ME THAT THE transmission WAS REPLACED FOR CUSTOMER SATISFACTION PURPOSES ONLY. I said let me get this straight...Nissan authorized a $5,000 replacement transmission for a transmission that was perfectly OK to begin with, just to make me happy?!! Basically he said yes. I replied to him I'm not a freaking idiot that Nissan is in the business to make money and they're not going to replace perfectly good transmission's just to make a customer happy. But he never would admit to the FWD having any issues. If I had an AWD I'm sure the story would have been reversed!

Now understand where I am coming from here. I already have paperwork from my dealer stating the replacement transmission is making the same grinding noise as the original transmission did. This is documented. It was Nissans refusal to do anything about the second transmission that led me to the point of serving Nissan with the vehicle defect notification report. So anyway, this rep asks me yesterday to leave the car with him for a while so he could drive it again and check things out some more. He said he would get back with me on it. Well I get a call this morning from my dealership stating my car is ready for pickup. I asked why the rep did not return my call and she replied that he is already gone, he left yesterday. I told her how much I appreciated him following up with me before he left. So I asked what the status of my car is.... she replied it is ready to pick up and there is NOTHING wrong with the transmission!! As I said earlier, I already have it documented from this same dealer that this transmission is grinding as well...and now I am being told from this same dealer and rep there is nothing wrong with my transmission. Hmmmm must be one of those new self-repairing trannys. If he thinks this is going to stop me from filing the lemon law complaint he is seriously mistaken and does not know me very well! I'd like to see how they are going to explain my transmission as being faulty a month ago to perfectly fine today.

Nissan has got to be the most F****D UP company I have ever dealt with, to the point I think there actions are bordering on criminal! I just can't believe how they treat there customers...

[philipa_240sx]

kcfm, I am not surprised.

Remember the door sill scratching issue?

One year later and there has been zero response from Nissan. At this point I am not hopeful they will do anything about it as it's not a 'major' flaw. A major flaw would be something that renders the vehicle un-driveable or a safety issue.

[kerrton]

Well I'm VERY surprised, to say the least. This is such a terrible experience it really is hard to believe. I can only hope that it is an anomyly and not the norm, which is supported by my excellent experience with Nissan Canada through my CVT replacement.

Regarding the door sill scratching issue; I never expected this to get any attention from Nissan because it looks to me to be a physical constraint of the vehicle with few options for repair and once you install the paint protection film it's a non-issue in my opinion. This horrible experience that kcfm is having is on a totally different level, completely outrageous!

I wish you good luck kcfm, and good for you for not backing down.

[Southpaw75]

My wife's 08 AWD Rogue has this CVT rattle problem. Took it in for 10k service last week and service manager told me that there is no fix yet for it. Nissan has told them they are working on it but they don't know what is causing it.It's very annoying. I basically have to turn the radio up louder than I normally do to drown out the ticking noise whenever I have to drive it.

[kcfm]

My wife's 08 AWD Rogue has this CVT rattle problem. Took it in for 10k service last week and service manager told me that there is no fix yet for it. Nissan has told them they are working on it but they don't know what is causing it.It's very annoying. I basically have to turn the radio up louder than I normally do to drown out the ticking noise whenever I have to drive it.

Nissan has been saying that same thing for a year and a half now. Whether or not Nissan knows what's going on with these trannys....who knows?! They seem to tell so many different stories you don't know what to believe.

I think the truth is Nissan just doesn't want to incur the cost to fix these. If you let them stall you with their excuses they will continue to do so until your warranty expires! Or at least until your time period to file a Lemon-Law dispute expires.

[kerrton]

I think kcfm is right. I had my CVT replaced last year, and in Canada we all were told last year that Nissan had solved the problem, the issue was too much slack in the CVT chain resulting in improper meshing with the cone gears, and that the 2009 CVT had been improved to solve this POTENTIAL problem. Not all 08 CVT's are defective, in fact very few are, but something inherant in that design COULD lead to rattling and possible failure, the 09 CVT had been altered to eliminate this possibility.

That was an ENTIRE YEAR AGO that we were told this, so I think Nissan USA is feeding you crap, how come we've had it figured out in Canada but not the US? That doesn't make sense. I and all others in Canada with this problem had it immediately fixed without hasse by replacing the CVT with the new design from 09. From what I can see this is the consistent story that all in Canada with CVT issues were told and it seemed very genuine and made perfrect sense. US customers for whatever reason have not been so lucky., I can't explain why.

[Southpaw75]

Nissan has been saying that same thing for a year and a half now. Whether or not Nissan knows what's going on with these trannys....who knows?! They seem to tell so many different stories you don't know what to believe.

I think the truth is Nissan just doesn't want to incur the cost to fix these. If you let them stall you with their excuses they will continue to do so until your warranty expires! Or at least until your time period to file a Lemon-Law dispute expires.

How do I go about filing a lemon law complaint and how long do I have to make it? I've never filed one before so I have no idea the proper procedure. Do I have to make the Nissan service dept attempt to fix the problem before I can legitimately file a complaint?

[kcfm]

How do I go about filing a lemon law complaint and how long do I have to make it? I've never filed one before so I have no idea the proper procedure. Do I have to make the Nissan service dept attempt to fix the problem before I can legitimately file a complaint?

I think it varies by state. Here in FL you have to have a documented 3 visits to the dealer to fix the problem. If still not fixed, then you have to file a VDNR giving Nissan one last chance to fix it. If they still not have fixed the problem then you go to arbitration. The result of that is binding for Nissan but not for you. If it is unfavorable to you then you can file suit under the Lemon Law.

Yes the time limit to do so here in Florida is 2 years and 60 days, but that may vary by state as well. You should have received a booklet when you purchased your car specific to this issue.

[kcfm]

PS - Southpaw do you have an AWD or FWD Rogue?

[Southpaw75]

PS - Southpaw do you have an AWD or FWD Rogue?

AWD.

I'll check my paperwork for the lemon law stuff. I vaguely remember the dealer mentioning it.

[trokita]

I am getting my transmission changed tomorrow. With only 15000 km, but I noticed the noise around 8k, I just didn't make anything off it until I joined this forum. The dealership didn't make a big beef about it, the simply identified the noise, and made the appointment. No questions asked.

Same thing here, i'm at about 18k on my 2k8 sl awd and have heard the noise for a while. has not affected performance of vehicle at all, went in for my service and dealer heard noise. They will be replacing it no questions asked. I did mention to them if others have had this done and they mention only one. I'm in Tacoma Wa and went to our dealership here Titus Will.

[zoieNNe]

Haven't been to the forum since I first bought the Rogue and was still in loooove. But, I first heard grinding at about 3,500 miles, especially during turns. It took SIX trips to the dealer for them to hear it. Replaced the right front axle (I think), at first. Didn't solve the problem. Then they replaced the transmission. All was fine until about 10,000 miles, then the grinding was back. In addition, there's the most annoying rattle virtually all of the time - gets worse with the A/C on. I've made three trips to the dealer since and now have 34,000 miles - they say they can't hear it and suggested I drive a new Rogue so I'll see it's just my imagination. A few weeks ago, I went to another dealer, certain they'd hear it and fix things. Instead, the service manager said, "I don't get paid to chase noises." Then he told me the first dealership likely just replaced the transmission to make me happy. I explained that making the noise stop was what actually made me happy. He then said he'd bet the first dealer screwed up the car during the replacement, because that kind of thing is common when tackling such an invasive job. Then he added I shouldn't worry anyway, because he "guaranteed" any real problems would become obvious before the powertrain warranty runs out. No, that didn't leave me with a particularly warm and fuzzy feeling. Well, today I unloaded the Rogue in trade for an '09 Audi A3 quattro. Will probably have to push retirement back 'til somewhere in my 80s so I can pay for it all, but I've got my peace of mind back and brought my blood pressure waaaay down. Sure hope the rest of you have better luck with the Rogue!

[Goblin]

Dude I felt your pain. It was not my best financial decision to unload my Rogue for an 09 Tacoma; as I certainly felt it in the wallet! But damn going to the dealership every month and follow-up phone calls! It was worth it to work another 10 years! LOL
Modified by Goblin at 7:58 PM 5/30/2009

[kerrton]

Goblin, you can't compare a Tacoma to a Rogue, it's not even in the same ballpark man, the Rogue wins hands down!! Go post that in Toyota trucks forum!!!!

[Goblin]

Goblin, you can't compare a Tacoma to a Rogue, it's not even in the same ballpark man, the Rogue wins hands down!! Go post that in Toyota trucks forum!!!!

Dude not comparing just commenting on how glad I was to unload the Rogue after all the trouble I had with it during the year I had it. The transmission being the most troublesome problem but certainly not the only. Here again, also stating it was not my wisest investment since I took a beating trading it within a year. And last, the overall relief of not dealing with Nissan and their lies! The best MOD is a pun on the whole adventure leading up to the Tacoma. Duh, I know they are not in the same class, etc. Again, no comparison...JUST HAPPY!

If you look at the first post I started this thread! I'm amazed at the attention it has received and those of you who have stood strong despite the misinformation you have been fed by Nissan and dealerships. I believe we are a select few with the problems as I see more AWD Rogues in NOVA every day. I'm amazed at the popularity here and yet, honestly, it seems to only be a handful of us with problems. I would have happily kept my Rogue if Nissan would have stood by their product and warranty.

I also seen a post saying you could not file Lemon Law on a vehicle if you trade, etc. Well, I just found out this week that's not true. Actually you can go after Nissan for the depreciation on the vehicle, etc. I don't understand all the legal jargon but have thought about doing just that as its no money out of my pocket. I'm still frigging pissed at how they treated me and my anger continues to grow reading how they are treating others on here. This was my fourth and last Nissan product. Obviously one less customer is of no concern to Nissan. It's a sad day when a company thinks it has become to big for one customer!

[philipa_240sx]

Goblin, I am glad you are happy with your new vehicle.

I was actually considering the 4dr versions of the Frontier or Tacoma before I bought my Rogue. But the fuel economy is killer... I think I would have been hard pressed to match the 30mpg I do with my Rogue from either of those vehicles.