CVT Rattle/Noise - Discussion Thread

[kerrton]

Update, I just came back from my dealer and the service manager joined me for a test drive. I drove slow and slightly accelerated and he could hear it. Its still in the early stages so he did tell me that if it became worse he would investigate further. I suggested maybe there is something else thats causing this, but he did not think so. All the onces they replaced are all fine ( well nobody has come back)I test drove a Murano and we may decide to bite the bullet and trade it in for a Murano.Paul

So I don't understand your service manager's logic. If all the other ones they replaced are fine (problem permanently solved), and yours continues to have the problem no matter how many CVT's they replace, and the chances that you've had 3 defective parts in a row are probably one in million, wouldn't you conclude that there must be some other factor with your specific vehicle that causes the CVT to fail? Paul, I'd hate for you to trade that Rogue in and take a big hit when it's up to Nissan to compensate you and/or get that vehicle problem figured out. I'd encourage you to hold on, and maybe rather than continuuing to approve replacement CVT's for you, they may buy it back, replace it or actually find the cause of the problem. Either way the solution should be on at their cost, not yours, and with the poor result you've had with the Rogue I don't think I'd be wanting to give Nissan any more business. Once you start looking at the Murano, that opens up a lot of other doors in terms of price. Maybe look at a slightly used Lexus, those vehicles are extremely sweet and gauranteed high quality and luxury. Just my thoughts of course....

[kerrton]

I think the CVT makes some noises here and there.

When I first started hearing noises from my CVT which ultimately led to it being replaced due to factory defect, I investigated the crap out of this to determine if there were normal CVT noises. I concluded that there are some very subtle noises but basically it should be quiet. And I also found that many confused noises from the engine, which can be quite noisy at times, with CVT noise so be sure that any noise you are listening to is actually coming from the CVT. I've had my new CVT for over 5000km and it works perfectly and makes absolutely no noise whatsoever, no exceptions.

But Couz, I'd really recommend that you don't worry about this. It is a very rare problem, even though it doesn't seem like it when reading these forums. If you spend all your time listening for noises you won't be enjoying your new vehicle, and basically imagining problems when things are just fine. And worse case scenario if you have defect CVT it'l be VERY obvious to you within the first year or two, as the problem really goes down hill and the rattle gets loud and constant. If this does happen it'l be obvious to you and your service dept and they'll just swap it out for a new one and everything will be great. You've a 5 year powertrain warrant so you dont' have to worry about things like this, and does absolutely no good to listen for very subtle little noises all the time because chances are they don't exist, if they do you'll want to wait until they get louder before taking for service anyway, so there is no advantage to catching it early anway!!!

Just relax and enjoy that sweet new ride you've got, and I'd recommend taking break from the forum, it can make you PARANOID!!

[kcfm]

So I don't understand your service manager's logic. If all the other ones they replaced are fine (problem permanently solved), and yours continues to have the problem no matter how many CVT's they replace, and the chances that you've had 3 defective parts in a row are probably one in million, wouldn't you conclude that there must be some other factor with your specific vehicle that causes the CVT to fail?

You would think so, as logic would dictate, but then how do you explain why some replacement trannys work out just fine and the rattle never returns? If there was some other factor causing these problems then why doesn't the transmission rattle return on all replacements? You and I are a good example. We both had our FWD transmission's replaced with the exact same part number. Why did the rattle return on mine but not yours?

[kerrton]

What I was saying was the ones where the replacement transmission solves the problem must have just had a defective CVT, as with any parts there are always a certain number of defects/failures, and if what my service department tells me is true about the 09 CVT being "improved", that would support this idea as well. The ones where several CVT's are replaced but the same problem recurs must have something else causing each new CVT to fail - that the scenario based on my logic, but like I said there are a lot of factors at work and I'm not a Nissan engineer so who really knows for sure. As for the difference between yours and mine, I don't know. Maybe my new CVT will crap out too, but I've got over 5000 on the new one so I'm thinking I'm in the clear. I would strongly recommend asking these questions of your service manager, and if he doesn't know prod him to get some answers from Nissan engineers, all service managers have a contact number for a Nissan engineer that they can contact to discuss issues like this.

[kcfm]

Well I just got off the phone with my service manager. He told me Nissan will not authorize another transmission and referred me back to Nissan Consumer affairs to re-open my file. This is the same consumer affairs dept I spent almost a month trying to get through to the first time around on this issue. They did nothing but avoid my calls. I told him this is totally unacceptable that I am not going through that bulls**t again!!

I have more than enough documented trips to the dealer on this issue. I will be serving Nissan with their Motor Vehicle Defect Notification next week. Either they will address this issue or if not, I will then start the Lemon-Law paperwork!!

Never, ever will I own another Nissan!!

[kerrton]

I just don't understand how they can refuse to fix your vehicle, they are basically saying that they won't honor the manufacturers warranty. I don't care if they won't replace the CVT, fine, that didn't seem to work the first time anyway. Whatever the solution is that's up to them, but they can't just refuse to fix it. I don't understand why things seem to be so much easier in Canada, why would they instandly approve 3rd CVT's up here and in the States things are totally different. And they didn't even give you the standard "Nissan is working on a solution" this time? When your service manager tells you to contact customer affairs, I'd tell him that that shouldn't be necessary if his service dept would do their job. You've got a vehicle that needs repair, so they should repair it. I understand that they're kind of caught in the middle, but they could also be a lot more helpful in trying to figure this out than just directly you elsewhere. I agree, complete BS.

[williammoses]

Your frustration is certainly understandable. In the 1970's and 1980's buyers of GM, Ford and Chrysler cars were advised to avoid a purchase until 18 months after the debut of a new model. Maybe the advice should apply to all manufacturers.

[kerrton]

The thing is, this isn't really a new vehicle. It has existed as the Dualis in Japan and Quashi in Europe for a couple years before coming to North America. And this powertrain is used in the Sentra and Altima, and this exact CVT is used in Jeep, Ford, and Mitsubishi vehicles. There is no reason to doubt that these components are proven.

[williammoses]

The Nissan Rogue is nearly identical to that Nissan Qashqai and Nissan Dualis; however the Qashqai and Dualis are equipped with lighter duty drivetrains. Furthermore, the Rogue--and presumably its siblings--are based on the Nissan Sentra, which is equipped with a drivetrain that is ligher duty still.

I'm no engineer, but I suspect that the Rogue body undermanages the relatively heavy drivetrain.

Specifications for all of these cars are available at WIKI. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Qas ... an_Qashqai, andhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Sentra.

[Ticmxman]

Well I just got off the phone with my service manager. He told me Nissan will not authorize another transmission and referred me back to Nissan Consumer affairs to re-open my file. This is the same consumer affairs dept I spent almost a month trying to get through to the first time around on this issue. They did nothing but avoid my calls. I told him this is totally unacceptable that I am not going through that bulls**t again!!

I have more than enough documented trips to the dealer on this issue. I will be serving Nissan with their Motor Vehicle Defect Notification next week. Either they will address this issue or if not, I will then start the Lemon-Law paperwork!!

Never, ever will I own another Nissan!!

Reading about this poor customer service is one reason why Goblin and I have both traded our Rogues. Good luck guys. Most of you will probably be fine but if you have a problem.....

[kcfm]

Reading about this poor customer service is one reason why Goblin and I have both traded our Rogues. Good luck guys. Most of you will probably be fine but if you have a problem.....

Believe me I have thought about that many times and I would love nothing more than to be rid of this headache! But I refuse to have eat all that depreciation for something that is Nissan's obligation to fix!

This is only my second new car I have ever owned and my first in 20 years. What a pleasant experience Nissan has made of this for me.

I wish I had my 14 year old Jeep back that I traded in on this car. It had a lot of miles but it was a great car and was still a great car when I traded it in. I think they got a much better car on the trade than they gave me!

[kerrton]

The Nissan Rogue is nearly identical to that Nissan Qashqai and Nissan Dualis; however the Qashqai and Dualis are equipped with lighter duty drivetrains. Furthermore, the Rogue--and presumably its siblings--are based on the Nissan Sentra, which is equipped with a drivetrain that is ligher duty still.

I'm no engineer, but I suspect that the Rogue body undermanages the relatively heavy drivetrain.

Specifications for all of these cars are available at WIKI. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Qas ... an_Qashqai, andhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Sentra.

Interesting thought, but I don't really see any specs on wikipedia for the frame strength and weight of the drivetrains so it's tough to tell, but I stand corrected on the comparison to the Dualis and Qashqai. One very interesting that might contradict your theory is that the Rogue shares the same platform as the X-Trail (which was only sold in Canada). Now the Xtrail was a more heavy duty vehicle, much heavier and presumably the powertrain of the Xtrail was at least as heavy as the Rogue's and the Xtrail had no major reliability issues that I could find.

Anyway, I just got back from Nissan (they were changing the steering wheel to fix a minor squeek), and I talked about this AGAIN with my buddy who is the parts guy, and he basically stated his reputation on the fact that the 2009 Rogue CVT has been redesigned/improved over the 2008, and he pulled up my file and confirmed that my new CVT was the improved design, and showed me the two different CVT parts from stock/before and after the swap. He also said that they've replaced very few, but of those none have come back with repeated problems. So I don't know how to reconcile this with the reports of others, but this aligns with what I'm observing out of my new CVT and boy I've really loved this vehicle ever since I've bought it, with no reason to change my mind now.

[williammoses]

Kerrton: You are right about the Nissan Rogue--it's a sweet vehicle. Although I traded my 2008 Rogue in for a Honda CRV, I miss my Rogue's intuitive all-wheel drive, the smoothe transmission of power, the gear shift paddles on the steering wheel, and the black leather upholstery with red trim. The Rogue is definitely sportier than the CRV. Obviously the overwhelming majority of 2008 Rogue owners have not transmission-related problems, and it appears that none of the 2009 Rogue owners are having them. In reguard to the Rogue transmission issue, Nissan U.S.A. has meted out rougher treatment to its customers than Nissan Canada. Why has Nissan U.S.A. been doing this? Because they can.

[Couz]

Really !!!

Is it true that 2009 Rogues have been imune to the infamous CVT issues?

On this forum anyways?

[williammoses]

Couz: In addition to putting the updated transmission (sometimes referred to as the "counter-measure" transmision) in 2009 Rogues, automobile manufacturers make many "running changes" on production lines. Such changes are things like the addition of a bracket or spot weld, for the most part invisible but still significant. Redesign of major parts like transmissions make the news, but running changes rarely do. Something or more than likely a set of things, must have come together on the 2009's.

Regards,William MosesAlexandria VA

[Couz]

Are these documented facts...I know the updated transmission is on the 2009 but the little extras you mention

[philipa_240sx]

Really !!!

Is it true that 2009 Rogues have been imune to the infamous CVT issues?

On this forum anyways?

I debate that one. It appears a couple of members here have had their transmissions replaced during the past few months and the rattle returned. You would think the 2009's would be using the same transmissions.

No one has been able to confirm if the transmission design has actually been changed.

[philipa_240sx]

The Nissan Rogue is nearly identical to that Nissan Qashqai and Nissan Dualis; however the Qashqai and Dualis are equipped with lighter duty drivetrains. Furthermore, the Rogue--and presumably its siblings--are based on the Nissan Sentra, which is equipped with a drivetrain that is ligher duty still.

I'm no engineer, but I suspect that the Rogue body undermanages the relatively heavy drivetrain.

A nearly identical drivetrain is used on the Altima 2.5 and a FWD Rogue is scarely a 100lbs heavier than the Altima. The AWD model is only 250lbs heavier than the Altima 2.5S. We are talking less than an 8% difference in curb weight.

I don't feel the drive train is too 'light' for the job.

The Dualis and Qashqai have very similar cub weights to the Rogue. They do use smaller engines but not necessarily 'lighter weight'.

[kerrton]

Are these documented facts...I know the updated transmission is on the 2009 but the little extras you mention

Couz, you're looking for 100% guarantees here and you're not going to get it. If you look at our posts, we always specify the source of the info. and at no point has there been or will there be a Nissan design engineer standing behind any of this. For example, a lot of my information is from my service and parts managers, and I've stated as clearly as I can that they guarantee the information they provide me, so it is what it is, a professional opinion of Nissan service and parts staff, not a 100% certain guarantee, which rarely exists in life.

WilliamMoses seems to have good personal professional experience that he's drawing on to give you his perspective on how the "running changes" may occur to a part, and which MAY have happened with the Rogue CVT, but again asking him to guarantee whether or not this happened with the Rogue CVT is pointless, nobody can provide this information no matter how many times you ask for guarantees.

I understand your frustration, I've been there too, but the fact is we all have 5 year warranty to cover all of these uncertainties. I really suggest that you just try to accept the vehicle and enjoy it if there aren't any obvious defects at this time. If in the future some problem develops you'll notice right away and warranty will cover it then, but for now just enjoy it!! Just my opinion .... worrying about these things takes the fun out of a new vehicle and I just want you to relax and enjoy!
Modified by kerrton at 9:51 AM 4/23/2009

[philipa_240sx]

I've had my Rogue 14 mos and have 52,000km on it. I originally thought the powertrain warranty was only 3 yr/60,000km.... when Kerrton posted I went back and re-read the warranty booklet. It's 5yr/100,000km. Thanks Kerrton!

[kcfm]

Couz,

Being that you're from Canada, even if you do have any problems you don't have anything to worry about. Nissan Canada is much more customer oriented than Nissan USA.

There they hand out transmissions like McDonalds hands out french fries. You go in for an oil change or something and they ask you if you'd like a new transmission with that oil change, no charge! Maybe that's why we have such a hard time getting approved for transmission's here in the states, because the Canadians are taking all of them.

[Couz]

I'm gonna take Kerton's advice and relax.

I hear an odd noise here and there but not nearly enough to go to the dealer, plus I think its normal noises a car can make, plus with this CVT I'm sure there's a few normal noises that are new to me since I've never had a CVT.

I dont hear anything serious and the car performs flawlessly, really well.

I think I'm searching for noises, window open no radio waiting to hear something.

Nissan called me today just to ask me if I'm satisfied so I know i have a good dealership

[Goblin]

I commend you guys with the positive attitudes and time to pursue problems with your vehicles. As for me, I look at the time wasted and the opportunity cost lost. My time is worth more than the depreciation I lost trading my Rogue. The burden of playing engineer and tracking both false and positive leads is exhausting to say the least. Not to mention the stupidity of having a warranty and riding with a serviceman only to have him tell you something is a normal noise when it was not there at the time of purchase. The absurdity of it all has made me very negative towards Nissan and the likelihood that I will ever buy another vehicle from them, is slim to none.

Seriously what's the point of a warranty Nissan does not back. And if its not the CVT causing this why not investigate it further instead of sending you to an 800# that's a dead end. Seriously, you paid good money in good faith to be treated better than this and yet you fell its OK because there is a possibility Nissan will come up with a fix before your 5 year 100K warranty is up. That is just laughable. Good luck! ROFLMAO!

[kerrton]

Goblin,

Just because you and a very few others had a bad experience doesn't mean this is representative of the vast majority, quite the opposite. I've got nothing but good things to say about the car itself, and the way I was treated by Nissan when it was discovered that I was one of the few with a defective CVT. I can say that Nissan Canada and my local dealer were absolutely awesome, and judging from the majority of people on this forum this is pretty consistent, although of course the few with problems will always shout louder than those who have no complaints, as you've done with your last post.

In my expereince and vast research the Rogue is the best value for your money in this segment, bar none. I'm sorry you had a bad experience but I'm glad that you were the anomaly and not the norm.

Oh, and don't feel sorry for me, I've got an awesome vehicle backed by top notch warranty and service, and with Nissan quality I don't anticipate having to worry about anything!!

[kcfm]

Just an FYI for everyone on the 2009's transmission rattle question. I found this post over on the Edmunds forum. This individual has a 2009 Rogue and has already had one transmission replaced and his replacement transmission has the rattle as well. So I guess the 2009's are not immune to this problem.

(its the 4th post down)

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.c...697de

[jandl]

i own a 2008 nissan x-trail ti in australia and had the transmission replaced 5 months ago due to a grinding persistent rattle.

guess what???? the noise is back!

Interesting thought, but I don't really see any specs on wikipedia for the frame strength and weight of the drivetrains so it's tough to tell, but I stand corrected on the comparison to the Dualis and Qashqai. One very interesting that might contradict your theory is that the Rogue shares the same platform as the X-Trail (which was only sold in Canada). Now the Xtrail was a more heavy duty vehicle, much heavier and presumably the powertrain of the Xtrail was at least as heavy as the Rogue's and the Xtrail had no major reliability issues that I could find.

Anyway, I just got back from Nissan (they were changing the steering wheel to fix a minor squeek), and I talked about this AGAIN with my buddy who is the parts guy, and he basically stated his reputation on the fact that the 2009 Rogue CVT has been redesigned/improved over the 2008, and he pulled up my file and confirmed that my new CVT was the improved design, and showed me the two different CVT parts from stock/before and after the swap. He also said that they've replaced very few, but of those none have come back with repeated problems. So I don't know how to reconcile this with the reports of others, but this aligns with what I'm observing out of my new CVT and boy I've really loved this vehicle ever since I've bought it, with no reason to change my mind now.

nissan didn't seem to know what the problem was initially but after much complaining and suggesting on my behalf, a engineer was supposedly sent out from japan to listen to the noise and suggested a new transmission.

this is the second nissan i have owned (had a bluebird once that all the paint peeld off) and i will NEVER contemplate wasting my money on another one!!

i'm glad i came across your forum. your comments support what i thought would happen i.e. an ongoing problem.

i'm trading the x-trail in next week on a hyundai santa fe and can't wait!

[philipa_240sx]

i own a 2008 nissan x-trail ti in australia

The only X-Trail sold in North America was the '05-'06 model and it was available in Canada only. The 1st gen ('00-'07) X-Trail does not share very much with the Rogue, Qashqai, Dualis, or even the newer redesigned X-Trail in 2008. The platform was completely redesigned, the only parts that may have carried over were the AWD system and some of the engines. The CVT itself is brand new.

[bryanrmt]

Hi there? I just like to ask you, did you test drive your Nissan Rogue before you actually bought it? Im just concern about the transmission problem it has and would like to know if that rattling sounds comes up after you buy the car or you can already hear them once you test drive it. thanks!

[kcfm]

Hi there? I just like to ask you, did you test drive your Nissan Rogue before you actually bought it? Im just concern about the transmission problem it has and would like to know if that rattling sounds comes up after you buy the car or you can already hear them once you test drive it. thanks!

No, you cannot hear it at first. It generally becomes audible around the 2,000 mile mark.

[philipa_240sx]

No, you cannot hear it at first. It generally becomes audible around the 2,000 mile mark.

Mine did not start to make any audible noise until after 10,000+ miles IIRC. Even then it was faint.