anybody heard of remote mount turbo system?

[WDRacing]

Do as you wish but understand two things: 1) Wikipedia can be edited by anybody and the info there should always be taken with cation. 2) Proper grammer is expected by most here on NICO. You can trust what ever info you care to and jump into what ever blind trials you wish but please use proper grammer when posting. I know there at least a couple of moderators that will delete posts and even ban if you persist.

We're not gonna ban anyone over something like grammar or a slight abrasiveness.

Using a larger exhaust housing and a small compressor is stupid, why even bother at that point. The SC eliminates lag and very well. He'd be far better using a larger compressor and running low boost so as to have the coldest air charge as possible.

This isn't new by any means. We had a STI running a twin charged setup at Nopi 3 or 4 years ago. That thing did the friggin HULA my friend. He was using a larger turbo and a running a decent amount of boost through it.

Basically the key here is to play around with various boost levels and see what results you get. You won't catch me arguing against someone trying something different.

WD

[S13FX]

You won't catch me arguing against someone trying something different.

Thats Good cause oh BOY am I different :-p.

Anyways, quick update I have a shop that I have access to almost any tool I can imagine. Basically I designed a web page for this dude who's really cool and owns the shop, and his going to help me out a great deal in return.

Just thought Id let you guys know this project is still very alive in my brain, I have pictures on my digi cam I just keep forgetting to recharge the batteries in it ooops.

And then for those of you who are interested on what the hell is keeping me away from the remote mount project. here are some pictures of the RB beast.

CLICK HERE FOR PICS

[240cp]

got to say i appreciate you stepping in wdracing!! on the same note i wasnt trying to be a smart a$$ or nothing like that. i really was trying to thank c-kwik for chiming in on this thead. a++. you was saying that you had a STI running a twincharged setup, was the sc'er helping the turbocharger. or was the turbo blowing through though sc'er.

as some used to use the sc'er to directly blow into the turbo to help it spool. just curious as to how the STI system worked? thanks!!

[240cp]

s13fx, charge those batts lol, we need to see the pics of what you have done.

oh and i checked out those pics of the rb20 miata____ sick dude!!!gotta love those hybrids

[gaehrings13]

Lol I don't think its a miata, im sure thats a 240.

[240cp]

i dont know what pics you looked at but if you looked at the ones that he linked at that the end of his post ____ well,!! that aint no 240!!! no matter what year.

____________________________________________________________oh snap!! dizam didnt notice, that is a 240, sorry same color car, my bad!!

Modified by 240cp at 10:26 PM 5/31/2007
Modified by 240cp at 10:31 PM 5/31/2007

[240cp]

hey those wondering if a twincharged sr20 can be done. go to google.com and search twincharged 240 and it will give you a nice link to a s15 that has been twincharged.

its all japanese but it gives nice pics of the engine bay showing the supercharger and turbo. cant really see the turbo but you know its there.

[240cp]

here is a link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SjNgVH_HN0

[Edub1]

It looks like that motor has a gated intake that switches from SC to turbo at a given point. There might be a few ways to do this but the take home message is that you don't want to double compress the charge, you want to bypass the SC compressing function when the turbo is boosting or the result will be P1*P2 which will be too much boost. If there is a way to "blow through" the SC in a similar way it will work. Otherwise, you are looking at some type of gated dule intake paths like the one in the video.

[WDRacing]

As far as S13FX's picture post goes, half of the pics are his S13 and half are his Miata. The S13 is his RB project.

Sorry I've been so busy as of late. I'll be back around alot more often now.

WD

[240cp]

Ok i've been thinking on this whole twincharging setup. If both of my compressors are set to say 7 psi, i would'nt have to shut off the supercharger would i? it would be like twinturbo would'nt it? just Y the two charge pipes into the same intercooler and be done.

Or do you think the supercharged air might try and back up through the turbo, causing surge on the turbo and unwanted stress on the compressor wheel?

[S13FX]

I HAVE AN UPDATE.

So as you know my friend who owns APG Performance is going to be helping me out with my car.

Well yesterday we were looking things over getting some final parts that we might need, and my friend came up with an IDEA.

Now this may sound very weird but after we did some tests it made perfect sense.

Since we all know on the remote mount the charge pipe is going to be very long, and while the air traveling through it it might loose some of it's efficiency.

So we started brain storming on it, and test out a few differ material to make the charge pipe out of, and no one will guess what the best thing turned out to be. Good ol home depot special pcv piping.

Not only it is cheap, very easily obtained but it does the job very very well.

[240cp]

what size pvc pipe, and are u gone use schedule 40 or thin wall?

[Edub1]

I HAVE AN UPDATE.

So as you know my friend who owns APG Performance is going to be helping me out with my car.

Well yesterday we were looking things over getting some final parts that we might need, and my friend came up with an IDEA.

Now this may sound very weird but after we did some tests it made perfect sense.

Since we all know on the remote mount the charge pipe is going to be very long, and while the air traveling through it it might loose some of it's efficiency.

So we started brain storming on it, and test out a few differ material to make the charge pipe out of, and no one will guess what the best thing turned out to be. Good ol home depot special pcv piping.

Not only it is cheap, very easily obtained but it does the job very very well.

The answer to the first question is that if a SC and a turbo are joined via a Y pipe you would have a boost leak through the turbo when it isn't in boost. When both are boosting, pressure would equalize to what you have the turbo set at.

As for PVC, you want a pipe that can pass heat easily - PVC will not do that. Aluminum is best. There is a post on here where a guy used PVC as a hot pipe - it melted.

[S13FX]

Edub homey think about it, there really will be no such thing as hot or cold pipe with this setup.

PVC pipes can withhold amazing amounts of heat, and with this project it's going to be a long continuous pipe it will have no room or time especially under the car to heat up that much.

And it's going to be the thicker version of the pipe ...

[240cp]

i definately recomend using the schedule 40. that thin wall crapp gets brittle and cracks easy. you might want to sheild as much of the pipe as possible. rocks and stuff getting kicked up might crack or break you piping.

[C-Kwik]

Edub homey think about it, there really will be no such thing as hot or cold pipe with this setup.

PVC pipes can withhold amazing amounts of heat, and with this project it's going to be a long continuous pipe it will have no room or time especially under the car to heat up that much.

And it's going to be the thicker version of the pipe ...

Air coming out of the turbo will be hot. If the PVC doesn't conduct heat well, any intercooling affect the longer pipes might otherwise have would be lowered. I'm not sure of the properties of PVC in this regard, but if the heat conductivity is low, then you will essentially not have anything close to a cold pipe.

I'm pretty skeptical of the actual amount of heat that long pipes of remote mounted systems would shed in the first place. My own experience with PVC would tell me that the PVC would have significantly less heat loss through the pipes.

[Edub1]

PVC melts easily. When I was an electrician we used a heated box to melt it so we could bend it. It needs about 2-3 min in a hot box and it is like Jello. The heat coming from a turbo is plenty to soften the PVC to the point where it can rupture. But like C-Kwik just said, the pipe is your intercooler so you want it to be made of a material with a low specific heat. Also, useing a smaller pipe will cool the charge better because of the surface to volume ratio. I'd use 2" aluminum.

As for the charge pipe, you can buy exhaust cut out valves or other butterfly valves that will do the trick. This can be actuated with a solenoid device and a Hobbs switch or perhaps at a given RPM. Hell, you could probably use a flapper type valve if you could find a good one. Check some industrial supply places like Graingers. You could probably even make a decent 2" flapper valve.

This is from the official PVC data sheet. 140*F is just a bit hotter than a hot day in AZ. The heat from a turbo compressor can be twice that.

PVC Industrial Pipe: Schedule 40Product Specifications PVC Schedule 40 PipeApplication:Corrosion resistant pressure pipe, IPS sizes 1/8" through 24", for use at temperatures up to and including 140°F. Pressure rating(120 psi to 810 psi) varies with schedule, pipe size, and temperature as stated in Harvel Plastics, Inc. engineering bulletin (ProductBulletin 112/401). Pipe is also suitable for PVC plastic drain, waste, and vent (DWV) applications. Generally resistant to most acids, bases,salts, aliphatic solutions, oxidants, and halogens. Chemical resistance data is available and should be referenced for propermaterial selection. Pipe exhibits excellent physical properties and flammability characteristics (independently tested flame andsmoke characteristics-ULC). Typical applications include: chemical processing, plating, high purity applications, potable water systems,water and wastewater treatment, drainage, irrigation, agricultural, and other applications involving corrosive fluid transfer.
Modified by Edub1 at 8:40 PM 6/7/2007

[S13FX]

I think we might be taking about differ PVC piping here or maybe Im jsut screwing up the name of it. Il double check what it is again and let you know

Also, Bwana used the same **** on his El Cheapo project seemed to work pretty well.

[WDRacing]

If you use a silicone coupler of a decent length inbetween the turbo and the PVC it won't melt, I've done this myself.

However, the heat retention of the PVC will keep the charge air temp alot higher then even mild steel.

Your best bet for ultra cheap and super easy is to use flexable tubing, suck as a vent duct type of material. There are several decent selections on Mcmaster.com that hold enough negative pressure to not collapse and can hold roughly 30psi. It's cheap enough just to try, if it doesn't work just toss it out, no worse then pooring out a case of beer, in fact the beer is far worse.

Whatever you do Mike, hurry the F*** up already.

EDUB, quit your lying. You were never an electrician and you know it. You used to be the recepticle holder at the sperm bank...LMAO.

[240cp]

[240cp]

how much abuse can a blow-off valve take? i think i might have a way to twincharge my 240 without blowing through the supercharger. its quite a bit of somwhat complex block-offs but it might would work.

the block-offs will be controlled electronically by boost sensors, and at a determined boost from the turbo, one will open and one will close slowly so the so the transition is smooth. turbo block-off will open and sc'er will close.

then the sc'er will vent into the amtosphere via the blow-off valve. do you think the blow-off can handle that much abuse. also the block-off's should start as early as 5 psi or so. what do ya'll think?


Modified by 240cp at 7:13 PM 6/8/2007

[Florida240sx]

Instead of bov for the sc you could use the exhaust open cut-out... Already made and ou can set it to come on a set level whether it's rpm based or you go by pressure

[WDRacing]

I was gonna say the same thing, though they are quite expensive. SUmmit racing has them if you wanna check them out. They can be run off a relay triggered by a hobbs switch.

WD

[240cp]

checked out the exhaust cut-outs 150.00 aint to bad. but will they hold boost and not leak?

[WDRacing]

It will be one of those things that is an excepted loss. If the MAF is upstream of the leak then you're golden. So a small boost leak isn't anything to worry about.

[240cp]

If you look at it there really aint no way to put the MAF upstream. Looks to me as if it has got to be a blow through MAF setup.

[240cp]

Ok, still not real sure if i want to try blowing through the sc'er, or trying it with block-offs and venting the supercharger when the turbo comes in. But as of right now the turbo i have really isn't big enough to surpass the sc'er.

It's a IHI VJ5 off a mazda 626. Not real sure of the specs, but it is a pretty small turbo. Prolly a little smaller than a T-25. So my guess is for right now is to let this turbo help the supercharger at higher RPM's. I think it is set to 7 PSI, was wondering how i might adjust the internal wastegate to, say around 4 or 5? Or can i?

[WDRacing]

If you look at it there really aint no way to put the MAF upstream. Looks to me as if it has got to be a blow through MAF setup.

Upstream means blowthrough...psssht

[240cp]

Oh, my bad