FrEaK wrote:Deese i had no idea your were a bible thumper?
The only thing I "thump" is your powdered donut eating mom. That wench!
One doesn't have to be a bible thumper to know what lies therein my young moronic friend.
Your Thoughts: Iraq and war.
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deesolballs
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deesolballs
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MaineExport
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[quote=" 89sxRCR because there IS NO debate about Saddam needing to disarm, there is nothing to debate about.[/quote]You must be relieved about that.
Quote »His open defiance of the UN resolution banning his possesion of Al-Samoud 2 missiles is just one example that he is unable to be "debated"[/quote]The Arabs maintain a similar position regarding the Israelis refusing to hand over the disputed territories. Quote »the palestinians have been refused statehood by every other country in the region, why should isreal abdicate and give them any territory they ask for? Particularly after they resort to terrosrism as thier method of negotiating. Giving terrorists what they want does not create peace. [/quote]Israel should give up the disputed territories because of the UN resolutions and I grow weary of the BS eminating from the region. I have no respect for the terrorlst atrocities being committed by Hamas et al. but Zionists conducted a guerilla war against the British and set the precedent for terror wars to get what you want. Or did you forget?
Quote »His open defiance of the UN resolution banning his possesion of Al-Samoud 2 missiles is just one example that he is unable to be "debated"[/quote]The Arabs maintain a similar position regarding the Israelis refusing to hand over the disputed territories. Quote »the palestinians have been refused statehood by every other country in the region, why should isreal abdicate and give them any territory they ask for? Particularly after they resort to terrosrism as thier method of negotiating. Giving terrorists what they want does not create peace. [/quote]Israel should give up the disputed territories because of the UN resolutions and I grow weary of the BS eminating from the region. I have no respect for the terrorlst atrocities being committed by Hamas et al. but Zionists conducted a guerilla war against the British and set the precedent for terror wars to get what you want. Or did you forget?
AZhitman wrote:Palestine, Schmalestine.
So you don't believe the Israel/Palestine morass has anything to do with the current east/west predicament? You had better review some basic history.
You also diss your only substantial military allies in this adventure as crumpet munchers, etc.? What a pal.
I beleive the Romans are also recorded as inflicting major damage to Israel.
Remember the freindly fire case? I think the medals should also go to the guys who were severly maimed because they're going to have to be the bravest of all.
http://www.globeandmail.com/se...ricas
http://www.globeandmail.com/se...ricas
The hospitality suites at this convention are probably very interesting. Hilarious! (On topic, BTW)
http://www.globeandmail.com/se...ories
http://www.globeandmail.com/se...ories
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MaineExport
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Huh... sounds frighteningly similar to post WW1 Europe.
If war and WMDs are to be outlawed... who is to stop that one rogue nation that refuses to recognize the authority of the 'law'?
The simple fact of the matter is that the US is the only real backbone the UN has. Diplomacy i just talk without something to back it up. Then again the Security Council doesn't seem to mind looking like bumbling idiots that won't live up to their empty threats.
If war and WMDs are to be outlawed... who is to stop that one rogue nation that refuses to recognize the authority of the 'law'?
The simple fact of the matter is that the US is the only real backbone the UN has. Diplomacy i just talk without something to back it up. Then again the Security Council doesn't seem to mind looking like bumbling idiots that won't live up to their empty threats.
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AZhitman
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by VimyJ "]So you don't believe the Israel/Palestine morass has anything to do with the current east/west predicament? You had better review some basic history.
I absolutely do - Don't place words in my mouth - and my knowledge of the history of their concerns goes WAY back - Probably further than you'd like to get involved with.
You also diss your only substantial military allies in this adventure as crumpet munchers, etc.? What a pal. Yeah, well, we here in America have this thing called rugged individualism, you see. And you're either for us or against us. So if you're not bringing anything substantial to the table, then get the hell out of the way. Because we have work to do. It's not always right or wrong, but something's getting accomplished.
I beleive the Romans are also recorded as inflicting major damage to Israel. Roman rule of the Jews was interesting - While they (Jews) were beholden to Roman law, they were allowed to govern and worship as they chose, with the only direct persecution being of Christian Jews.
I absolutely do - Don't place words in my mouth - and my knowledge of the history of their concerns goes WAY back - Probably further than you'd like to get involved with.
You also diss your only substantial military allies in this adventure as crumpet munchers, etc.? What a pal. Yeah, well, we here in America have this thing called rugged individualism, you see. And you're either for us or against us. So if you're not bringing anything substantial to the table, then get the hell out of the way. Because we have work to do. It's not always right or wrong, but something's getting accomplished.
I beleive the Romans are also recorded as inflicting major damage to Israel. Roman rule of the Jews was interesting - While they (Jews) were beholden to Roman law, they were allowed to govern and worship as they chose, with the only direct persecution being of Christian Jews.
You are obviously not aware of the conflicts the UN has contained and/or cleaned up without the help of US military forces and I wouldn't expect you to be because you only have the information from the the "provincial" US point of view. Do you know of Cypress, Cambodia, the Golan Heights or Herzogovina to name a few?maineimport wrote:The simple fact of the matter is that the US is the only real backbone the UN has. Diplomacy i just talk without something to back it up. Then again the Security Council doesn't seem to mind looking like bumbling idiots that won't live up to their empty threats.
War is the failure of diplomacy.
It's hard to have an effective world body when there are so many interests invloved. It is especially difficult when some members states insist on doing things against the majority or ingore resolutions.
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MaineExport
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Originally posted by VimyJ "]and I wouldn't expect you to be because you only have the information from the the "provincial" US point of view.
Well, we can't all be as worldly as you. :rolleyes But no, I do consider other points of view... most of them seem 'slanted' (to use your verbage) to say the least. I don't just automatically accept what I read BECAUSE it isn't the 'provincial' US view. I'm skeptical... but not prejudicially so.War is the failure of diplomacy.
No, war is a solution TO failed diplomacy. Failed diplomacy is is rhetoric and banter with no intentin of backing it up.
It's hard to have an effective world body when there are so many interests invloved.
ABSO-FREAKIN'-LUTELY!!!!! Then why is it that you are so adamant that we have the backing of a governing body that you admit is ineffective? We must do what is in the best interest of us first, and the rest of the free world second. Finally, you make a good point... funny how it is counter indicative of your argument.
It is especially difficult when some members states insist on doing things against the majority or ingore resolutions.
Yes... when the majority ignores its OWN resolutions... it is very hard to be effective. Sucks that we will have to be the bad guy I guess. It's hard to be effective when Iraq tells the UN what they will or will not do, and the UN scolds them then backs down EVERY TIME!!! The Security Council would be an ideal candidate for the trailer-trash parents of the year award.
Well, we can't all be as worldly as you. :rolleyes But no, I do consider other points of view... most of them seem 'slanted' (to use your verbage) to say the least. I don't just automatically accept what I read BECAUSE it isn't the 'provincial' US view. I'm skeptical... but not prejudicially so.War is the failure of diplomacy.
No, war is a solution TO failed diplomacy. Failed diplomacy is is rhetoric and banter with no intentin of backing it up.
It's hard to have an effective world body when there are so many interests invloved.
ABSO-FREAKIN'-LUTELY!!!!! Then why is it that you are so adamant that we have the backing of a governing body that you admit is ineffective? We must do what is in the best interest of us first, and the rest of the free world second. Finally, you make a good point... funny how it is counter indicative of your argument.
It is especially difficult when some members states insist on doing things against the majority or ingore resolutions.
Yes... when the majority ignores its OWN resolutions... it is very hard to be effective. Sucks that we will have to be the bad guy I guess. It's hard to be effective when Iraq tells the UN what they will or will not do, and the UN scolds them then backs down EVERY TIME!!! The Security Council would be an ideal candidate for the trailer-trash parents of the year award.
[quote=" AZhitman I absolutely do - Don't place words in my mouth - and my knowledge of the history of their concerns goes WAY back - Probably further than you'd like to get involved with.[/quote]My knowledge of history goes back farther than 4444 BC.
Quote »Yeah, well, we here in America have this thing called rugged individualism, you see. And you're either for us or against us.[/quote]:bsface Only in the movies, buddy, only in the movies
Quote » So if you're not bringing anything substantial to the table, then get the hell out of the way. Because we have work to do. It's not always right or wrong, but something's getting accomplished.[/quote]Stalin had a similar view.
(A similar response didn't appear when I posted it.)
Quote »Yeah, well, we here in America have this thing called rugged individualism, you see. And you're either for us or against us.[/quote]:bsface Only in the movies, buddy, only in the movies
Quote » So if you're not bringing anything substantial to the table, then get the hell out of the way. Because we have work to do. It's not always right or wrong, but something's getting accomplished.[/quote]Stalin had a similar view.
(A similar response didn't appear when I posted it.)
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AZhitman
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Well, we're all impressed by your vast knowledge of matters that far back - But the issue of Palestine is far more recent. Although we CAN go back to Old Testament times, a more appropriate begin date would be August of 1947.
Save your BS flag, Mike - Your cynical view of all things American is disconcerting at the very least. Then again, I'd probably feel the same if I had to live in Chicago.
Hope you're not trucking out Stalin for propagandist purposes - It's a common tenet of leadership, and all great leaders (whether we agree with their motives or not) have a similar attitude.
Interestingly, you've continually referenced your so-called "worldliness" as a defense of your statements. While residing in a foreign country on the same continent doesn't automatically make someone more "globally conscious", don't assume that others haven't had similar experiences to draw from. You don't have a corner on the market, in other words.
Save your BS flag, Mike - Your cynical view of all things American is disconcerting at the very least. Then again, I'd probably feel the same if I had to live in Chicago.
Hope you're not trucking out Stalin for propagandist purposes - It's a common tenet of leadership, and all great leaders (whether we agree with their motives or not) have a similar attitude.
Interestingly, you've continually referenced your so-called "worldliness" as a defense of your statements. While residing in a foreign country on the same continent doesn't automatically make someone more "globally conscious", don't assume that others haven't had similar experiences to draw from. You don't have a corner on the market, in other words.
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MaineExport
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MaineExport
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Dennis Miller just made an interesting observation on the whole situation. We have created a ‘capability chasm’. We have become exceedingly good at what we do (as a nation) and the rest of the world has gone to hell in a hand basket. As long as we keep becoming a better nation they will hate us. We are simultaneously the most admired, respected, envied, yet hated and scrutinized nation on this planet. There is some truth to that.
He also said that if we murdered every lawyer, we could get away with it due to inadequate representation. Not a bad plan! When did Mr. Miller become so rational?
He also said that if we murdered every lawyer, we could get away with it due to inadequate representation. Not a bad plan! When did Mr. Miller become so rational?
[quote=" AZhitman
Quote »Hope you're not trucking out Stalin for propagandist purposes -[/quote]You comparing w to famous totaltarian leaders methods of attempted world domination?
Quote »Interestingly, you've continually referenced your so-called "worldliness" as a defense of your statements. While residing in a foreign country on the same continent doesn't automatically make someone more "globally conscious", don't assume that others haven't had similar experiences to draw from. You don't have a corner on the market, in other words.[/quote]
Worldliness Schmorldliness. All I know is that I got better information on the state of world events when I have lived and visited outside the US than I can recieve from the US provincial media content. You would, too. It's a fact. Especially in Canada. You get to know what is going on in the US as well as domestically and internationally.
And what the hell is a "foreign" country? Not only is that a redundant term but it is also a revealing constant Freudian slip that reveals the US's generic and pervasive xenophobia.
If it is cynical to call you on your trite cliches then so be it. "Rugged individualism" Sheesh. W might want you to believe it but this ain't the wild west any more and now you're attemptng to diss one of the world's great cities: Chicago.Well, we're all impressed by your vast knowledge of matters that far back[,QUOTE]
I'm not impressed with your original statement about your stunning knowldge of history.
No! Really?- But the issue of Palestine is far more recent. Although we CAN go back to Old Testament times, a more appropriate begin date would be August of 1947.
Quote »Save your BS flag, Mike - Your cynical view of all things American is disconcerting at the very least. Then again, I'd probably feel the same if I had to live in Chicago.
Quote »Hope you're not trucking out Stalin for propagandist purposes -[/quote]You comparing w to famous totaltarian leaders methods of attempted world domination?
Quote »Interestingly, you've continually referenced your so-called "worldliness" as a defense of your statements. While residing in a foreign country on the same continent doesn't automatically make someone more "globally conscious", don't assume that others haven't had similar experiences to draw from. You don't have a corner on the market, in other words.[/quote]
Worldliness Schmorldliness. All I know is that I got better information on the state of world events when I have lived and visited outside the US than I can recieve from the US provincial media content. You would, too. It's a fact. Especially in Canada. You get to know what is going on in the US as well as domestically and internationally.
And what the hell is a "foreign" country? Not only is that a redundant term but it is also a revealing constant Freudian slip that reveals the US's generic and pervasive xenophobia.
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MaineExport
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Originally posted by VimyJ "]And what the hell is a "foreign" country? Not only is that a redundant term
No... redundant might be nation country, or nation state.
but it is also a revealing constant Freudian slip that reveals the US's generic and pervasive xenophobia.
Oh that's right, beause I've NEVER heard any other nations refer to OTHER nations as foreign. We are the only ones who do that. :rolleyes
Are you so stuck on your supposed intellect that you would argue the term 'foreign country'? Give me a freakin' break.... that's a little above and beyond even by your standards.
No... redundant might be nation country, or nation state.
but it is also a revealing constant Freudian slip that reveals the US's generic and pervasive xenophobia.
Oh that's right, beause I've NEVER heard any other nations refer to OTHER nations as foreign. We are the only ones who do that. :rolleyes
Are you so stuck on your supposed intellect that you would argue the term 'foreign country'? Give me a freakin' break.... that's a little above and beyond even by your standards.
Maine, Maine, Maine.... Another country is foreign by definition. How could you have a "domestic country"? Foriegn refers to something not domestic which is what another country already is. There are a few hoser's that use this term after watching a life time of US sitcoms but it is a fact that the US is the only English speaking country where the redundant and revealing phrase "foreign country" is continally abused. Fact, baby!
Yeah -baby- thats abused, and lets see what else is.. Maby Z and Maine can help me out.. Hmm, freedoms of information, expression, and speech are abused.. What else? Oh, thats right, even though the US econmy sucks at the moment, it is still among the top 5 countries to have the highest GNP (Large countries).VimyJ wrote: There are a few hoser's that use this term after watching a life time of US sitcoms but it is a fact that the US is the only English speaking country where the redundant and revealing phrase "foreign country" is continally abused.
Wow, the US must suck alot.. That and our 100% volunteer saftey officals and armed servicemen seem ready to defend this little piece of land with their lives.. Maby you do not like the United States, but for some of us over here, we'd give our lives for it.
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AZhitman
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I have grown weary of the double standard here from our resident genius. Again, you assume that you're the ONLY one who has resided in a FOREIGN country, and then have the unmitigated gall to derail the discussion by getting into a Clintonesque diatribe about the definition of the word "foreign". (Mexico's a foreign country too, BTW.)
Not once have I seen you credit another's point of view, especially if it disagrees with your own. Despite the fact that I've made several concessions to "good points" you've presented in the past, your reciprocity is lacking, and your pompous and overbearing remarks have taken the fun out of this.
You are hereby crowned "The Expert" on all subjects, major and minor, trivial and important.
p.s. You have employed quite a load of "trite cliches" yourself, Mr. Mike - Consider yourself fortunate we aren't throwing you under the bus for trucking them out on occasion.
And as for a soapbox, I'd argue that this forum has afforded your views FAR more exposure than the rest of us - so save your rocks.
Not once have I seen you credit another's point of view, especially if it disagrees with your own. Despite the fact that I've made several concessions to "good points" you've presented in the past, your reciprocity is lacking, and your pompous and overbearing remarks have taken the fun out of this.
You are hereby crowned "The Expert" on all subjects, major and minor, trivial and important.
p.s. You have employed quite a load of "trite cliches" yourself, Mr. Mike - Consider yourself fortunate we aren't throwing you under the bus for trucking them out on occasion.
And as for a soapbox, I'd argue that this forum has afforded your views FAR more exposure than the rest of us - so save your rocks.
Read in the Chicago Tribune ths morning that a war and six month occupation of Iraq is going to cost $100 billion. This is double the price tag Rumsfeld quoted just weeks ago. We all know from experience that the latest figure is probably low as well.
How does someone figure that my disecting of the quaint, colloquial yet revealing phrase "foreign country" get twisted into a preceived attack on US constitutional guarantees of freedom? BTW, the US, despite it's current malaise, still has the largest GDP of any country in the world.
Remember the good old days when all we had to gripe about was a president's private life? Now we're discussing war, huge budget deficits, quashing of civil liberites, duct tape, colour coded terror warnings and a domestic economic outlook that is grim by any standard.
How does someone figure that my disecting of the quaint, colloquial yet revealing phrase "foreign country" get twisted into a preceived attack on US constitutional guarantees of freedom? BTW, the US, despite it's current malaise, still has the largest GDP of any country in the world.
Remember the good old days when all we had to gripe about was a president's private life? Now we're discussing war, huge budget deficits, quashing of civil liberites, duct tape, colour coded terror warnings and a domestic economic outlook that is grim by any standard.
Jeeze wouldn't you know it. As soon as the $100 billion cost of a favourable war is posed another figure of $1.9 trillion or 20% of the US GDP is likely if things go badly. Then, add on the cost of the alienation of allies with their invaluable inteligence for the war on terror and further polarization of the Islamic world because of a war on Muslims and you have a ruinous scenario for the standard of living in the US.
I found it humorous yesterday when the big topic was remotely piloted aircraft being smuggled into the US as yet another thing for the Customs service to have to look for in thousands of containers, etc. The humerous part is that one can go to any hobby shop and buy a remotely controlled airplane. This wasn't mentioned even once even though this would be the easiest way to get/build one of these drones.
I found it humorous yesterday when the big topic was remotely piloted aircraft being smuggled into the US as yet another thing for the Customs service to have to look for in thousands of containers, etc. The humerous part is that one can go to any hobby shop and buy a remotely controlled airplane. This wasn't mentioned even once even though this would be the easiest way to get/build one of these drones.