Why a Supercharger or a Twin Turbo is needed in a G-35

[Minmey15]

Minmey15:

I am glad I bring joy to your soul. The magazine I read (I can't remember which one becasue I read it at a Barnes and Noble) noted that Nissan Engineers are not happy that most 350Z owners are not modifying their cars the way they had hoped, in order to take advanatge of the full potential of the 350Z. 350Z and G-35 have the same engine.

I see. I wonder what magazine it was. Nissan engineers in the video I saw were saying that Skyline was made to get to a place comfortably nad fast. That sounds like a GT to me. And I doubt there would be any mistake there, for I saw the video in Japanese.

BTW, 350Z was developed, targeting North American market. It is also in GT category. And if Nissan engineers want us to throw in turbo or supercharger, wht doesn't Nismo make turbocharger kit? Instead, all Nismo make is parts for light tune. I was told by a friend of mine who work at Nissan that Nismo care for their car being well-balanced, street car.

Don't get me wrong though. I drift, I like racing, and love my G35. All I am saying that I disagree with you on G35 and 350Z being race car like.

[AZhitman]

For someone who purports to be so smart, you certainly don't read very well.

Perhaps you should re-read the Terms of Service you agreed to when you created an account.

Don't question me until you can get your own facts straight.

When 30 people in a thread think you're full of crap, you're probably full of crap. Consider that.

Don't act all butt-hurt because someone called you out on your B.S., some of us actually know and hang out with Nissan engineers and employees of Nissan North America, and you're way off base. And yes, some of us were even involved in early pre-production surveys of the car in question.

No more pseudo-intellectualization. Your opinions are fine, just be prepared for disagreement. You want someone to emotionally bond with over theoretical possibilities, I think there's a forum on Oprah's site.

This isn't insolence, or name-calling. It's clear, concise, parsimonious communication.

WD is FAR from "diplomatic" (that's the funniest thing I've ever read)

If you don't like what's written above, dispute it in a manner that proves it wrong. Don't ignore it, address it. Simple as that.

Oh, and NOTHING you can say would "break my spirit" - I've been through more agony and misery in the past 3 years than most people experience in a lifetime. Yet here we are.

[Jacko3]

Azhitman:

I am beginning to like your tone of comments. I accept your last comentary. Fairly different from the last ones you provided.

[Jacko3]

Minmey15:

I get your drift. This is my question: Why then do we have some 350Z pre-installed with Stillen Superchargers by the factory. There weren't many of them. Of course, since Stillen has already developed something that works, it would cost NISMO less to just go ahead and use what already works.

I saw the commentary about moding out our cars in a magazine that was analyzing the Nissan GT-R. I can't remember the name of the magazine. I agree that any auto manufacturer would be most concerned about the balance of their cars.

But I wonder, is it possible that after manufacturing a car, the manufacturer could realize after-the-fact that the car in question could potentially do more than they had anticipated without much harm. Do you think this is what happened to the 350Z and the G-35?

I also saw a small video clip of Mr. Stillen himself commenting, while driving a supercharged 350Z, about how much better a 350Z feels after a supercharger has been installed. Any take on this?

[AZhitman]

And I, contrary to my tone, am not a "jerk" - I am just a very logical and literal person...

I've also read through a lot of your other posts and enjoyed them - Think this one just went sideways on ya.

[WDRacing]

I also saw a small video clip of Mr. Stillen himself commenting, while driving a supercharged 350Z, about how much better a 350Z feels after a supercharger has been installed. Any take on this?

When a person sells something for a vehicle, you really can't take what he says to heart. Because he's certainly not going to say...meh, I just spend $80,000 developing this SC, but I think I like the NA version better...lol.

The fact that a factory vehicle is performs better with any form of forced induction is arguably a, and forgive me for this, stupid conversation. If the the drive train is up to withstanding an increase in hp, then of course a power adder would be a benefit. As I've said many times in various forums, Forced Induction will ALWAYS make more power then Natural Aspiration.

However, if you were to include some type of forced induction worthy of a factory warranty, the price range would have been far beyond the intended consumer of the 350Z and G35. You also have to consider the fact that Nissan almost went under when the G and 350 came out. Sales were garbage because they were offering things like the J30 and M30 as performance oriented sedans...laughable at best.

We now have a great platform that is a potent competitor when modified by the aftermarket. Questioning whether the car should have been built like an aftermarket version is rather absurd.

WD

[audtatious]

Mr Hitman, Greg, whatever. You need to clean up your act or you will be removed from this site. Consider this your last warning.

mazdaspeed6 vs G35 is dependant on the year of G35 and transmission type. Otherwise it could be a drivers race. Mazda states 1/4 in 14.1 yet stock timesheets do show 13.8-13.9 capabilities. Pretty similar to G35's.

[Jacko3]

AZhitman and WDracing:

Thanks for the info!

[Jacko3]

audtatious:

I think I would agree. Anyway, my RE050A Bridgestone tires, are nearing the end of their life span. So, this could technically have made me slower. On the other hand, it may have been driver error, as I wasn't expecting to meet a Mazda 6 speed on that day, so I wasn't prepared, and again, it was night, when I tend to be most cautious when I drive.

[!979TransAm]

Marketing has a lot to do with the performance as WD hinted too. Think about it, would the factory performance section want to offer some heavy upgrades making it comparable to the step up in the product line BUT marginally cheaper?

[joe603]

Brian, to answer your question on remote turbo for the G35, yes there are a few how have done it. Decent results from what I've read (there from our competing forum).

[Minmey15]

Minmey15:

I get your drift. This is my question: Why then do we have some 350Z pre-installed with Stillen Superchargers by the factory. There weren't many of them. Of course, since Stillen has already developed something that works, it would cost NISMO less to just go ahead and use what already works.

I saw the commentary about moding out our cars in a magazine that was analyzing the Nissan GT-R. I can't remember the name of the magazine. I agree that any auto manufacturer would be most concerned about the balance of their cars.

But I wonder, is it possible that after manufacturing a car, the manufacturer could realize after-the-fact that the car in question could potentially do more than they had anticipated without much harm. Do you think this is what happened to the 350Z and the G-35?

I also saw a small video clip of Mr. Stillen himself commenting, while driving a supercharged 350Z, about how much better a 350Z feels after a supercharger has been installed. Any take on this?

Ah... Mr. Millen? You mean Steve Millen? He is from Stillen, right? I have been disagreeing with you about your speaking for Nissan engineers. And when you throw a SC on a car, it will be faster. However, balance would be different. That's my opinion.

I have never heard of Nissan offering Stillen SC, but if they do, that is cool. However, that does not mean Stillen SC was what Nissan engineers were seeking for. There may be some demands for more power, and they probably made a small production. If that is what Nissan truly wanted, then it would be an actual option available for everyone, don't you think?

Are you aware that manufacturers spend numerous hours developing, driving, prototype? All manufacturers have test drivers, and they test cars. And I am pretty sure that those drivers would see the stuff you would.

But either way, after buying G35, you realized that Mazdaspeed 6 was faster, right? Maybe it's time for you to move on and get Mazdaspeed 6? I'd never get one though. I love my G35 how else could I say I own V36 Skyline???I haven't owned Skyline since R32 and it's putting smiles on my face every day! It may not be as fast as some cars, but so what? It still does what I tell it to do on corners!

[Tampa G35 Sedan 6MT]

WOW... I was out of town for the weekend! I gout about 150 emails from this topic when I turned my laptop on.

I just spent about an hour reading this and watching the Bugatti Videos

I still want a SC for my G and I think i am going to do it.

I need to see if the dealer has a shop that will install and not void the warranty!

I am glad we are one Big Happy NICO Family!

DJ

[WDRacing]

When I was in Japan I of course bought a R32 Skyline immediatly. It took about 5 weeks before I had read almost everything available in English on the Skyline itself and turbo's etc. My first purchase was a dual stage boost controller. With the average gains being 10whp per psi of boost the increase in performance was immediate. I had everything else on the car in stock form, aside from a custom diy cold air intake and some ducting to direct air at my little side mount intercooler. So to the naked eye my stock apearing Skyline was faster then you'd think.

How do we know that any Mazda Speed 6 isn't running increased boost etc...? We don't, so speculating again raises it's ugly head.

Bench racing is for women and guys that don't drink beer or change their own oil.

Joe:

Thanks for the reply, I was wondering wh everyone was ignoring me...lol.

Do we have a good write-up or thread concerning the remote mount issue? If not I can start one up and offer everything I have on the topic. If people realized how easy it was there would be quite a few more boosted G's around I'm sure of it.

WD

[G_whizz]

Hey B. as you can see this thread goes sideways ...often. I don't think anyone was ignoring you??!! LOL

Anyways, I'm pretty sure the only info. on Turbos here is a "How to" Anything you want to contribute as I know you are Turbo king I'm sure will be welcomed with open arms here!!

[WDRacing]

Cool, I'll read through what you guys have and brush up on the VQ a bit in the process. The good thing is, if I do make an error, Chano will be here to immediatly call me on it. He takes an unusual amount of pride in beating me up sometimes

I may know a lot about boost an whatnot, but Chano is the man when it comes to compressor mapping. It's to bad he lives in CA, he'd have a really well running turbo something right now if he didn't. CARB for the friggin loss man...

[G_whizz]

VERY kewl of you!

Yeah... you'll get no arguement here... Chano is the man!

We all must take the opportunity to "beat" up on ya when we can... God knows you usually come back twice as hard tho. Hope I can make it out this year to hook up and have some beers with ya

[rn79870]

Hey B. as you can see this thread goes sideways ...

Goes sideways? Here?

[rn79870]

Bench racing is for women and guys that don't drink beer or change their own oil.

WD

One guy here changes his own oil, but I think he's jeopardy of losing his country club membership for doing so. He's already been dropped from the Polo club.

[joe603]

Brian, I think the install was fairly straightforward. Just be sure and tune it properly. Pics of the install would be killer!!

So...you're getting a G35? NEED DETAILS! What will the 240 guys do...hehehe

[WDRacing]

It's all conjecture and theory at this point Joe...lol. The G35 would make a nice addition to my list of "once owned" cars. I'm at a cross roads with the 240, stay with the KA or swap in some type of domestic V8. Regardless, it'll stay in the family forever. I'm not getting rid of another car until my death...at which point my wife will have them all sold within the month...lol.

The reason I'm leaning towards a remote style setup on the G is the fact that it will remain my daily driver. Being a remote mount, I can do almost all of the work without having the G down for any length of time more then 2 days. One for the actual install and one for tuning. The rest can all be done in the garage without requiring the car for the mock up, other then the initial measurements for a jig. So I guess it would be more like 3 days of down time, but no more then 2 in a row.

The 240 guys have a strong base membership. Not to mention I've already built a good FAQ and info thread. No more I can do really...other then answering the usual mundane questions like...how much whp can I make with such and such.

I would like to see the G community become so involved in performance that all the questions become mundane here as well. Because at that point the US will be populated with some really kicka$$ G's.

Hopefully our economy will hold up and we don't go into a recession. I have many a dream I'd like to see come to fruition. To include my son Dylan entering into the Jr Dragsters as soon as he can walk

WD

[rn79870]

Hopefully our economy will hold up and we don't go into a recession. ...WD

I have the same hope you do. Unfortunately it doesn't look all that good on the horizon. Our company markets to the construction industry. Typically, in San Diego, and Orange county there are 250 to 300 new starts (building permits issued) each week. The week before last there were 3.Last week was the about the same. A lot of people make their living in construction, and a lot of them are not working in So Cal.

[joe603]

If you're looking for something that you can install yourself, consider the Vortech. That's the route I'm taking eventually.

[WDRacing]

Centrifugal blowers are the epitomy of lag my friend. Yes they make big numbers on the top end, but down low they are the suck.

I'm a DIY guy man...I can have a single or twin set-up installed and functional for 1/3 of the price as a running Vortec kit. Plus I'll see full boost about 5000 rpm before you will.

WD

[Jacko3]

WDRacing:

You said, "I would like to see the G community become so involved in performance that all the questions become mundane here as well. Because at that point the US will be populated with some really kicka$$ G's."

I share the same dream as well.

[C-Kwik]

Minmey15:

I get your drift. This is my question: Why then do we have some 350Z pre-installed with Stillen Superchargers by the factory. There weren't many of them. Of course, since Stillen has already developed something that works, it would cost NISMO less to just go ahead and use what already works.

I also saw a small video clip of Mr. Stillen himself commenting, while driving a supercharged 350Z, about how much better a 350Z feels after a supercharger has been installed. Any take on this?

To my knowledge, Nissan themselves haven't installed any superchargers on any 350Z's for sale. However many dealers have installed Stillen kits on new 350Z's for sale. Many dealers will sell and install the kits to owners of cars as well.

As for Steve Millen's comments on the S/C kit, it's two fold. One, I doubt you'll be hearing public negative comments about any experience using the kit his business is manufacturing and selling. As far as power, it's hard to imagine many boosted cars will not feel somewhat better. In Stillen's case, it is a well built kit with a very broad, street friendly, powerband. Not the most powerful results, but can offer a significant increase in power and is, arguably, the most reliable kit available.

[Jacko3]

C-Kwik:

Yes, it would appear the dealerships installed the Stillen SCs. And they cover it under their warranty. I actually so one with sticker price of $49K. So, i was wondering how this is possible, and if they had permission from Nissan to do the install on a brand new car, covered under full warranty, and displayed for sale like any other new 350Z.

[joe603]

Centrifugal blowers are the epitomy of lag my friend. Yes they make big numbers on the top end, but down low they are the suck.

I'm a DIY guy man...I can have a single or twin set-up installed and functional for 1/3 of the price as a running Vortec kit. Plus I'll see full boost about 5000 rpm before you will.

WD

Ahhh, but is that the best thing? Yes, a twin setup will outperform a supercharger, but all that boost in the low RPM range is very hard on the drivetrain. Not to mention the install is exponentially more complex. In a way, the supercharger lets you get the numbers while keeping the abuse in check. Granted, if I went forged internals, I would certainly go with a set of twins!! But I don't want to get that crazy with my setup. 380-400RWHP is plenty for the G35 IMO.

[WDRacing]

The VQ's internals are more then stout enough to withstand more the 500whp. The only issue is with the high compression pistons. This can be side stepped via alcohol injection, but that's not the point. Lets say we're using 8 psi as the max boost. With the Vortec, you'll get all whopping 8 psi at friggin red line...garbage. With a turbo, whether it be a single or twins you get it at or about 2800ish rpm depending on turbo trim. Lets assume I can pick out a very efficient turbo for 8 psi and stick with 2800 rpm as a max boost point.

The turbo will remain unspooled until you put enough load on the engine to create the exhaust pressure enough to actually build boost. This is why you can't build boost in neutral. SO there is no worry of building boost and putting any undo stress on the drive train. Even though it can and will handle a hell of a lot more then 8 psi. The vortec however, will be building boost all the time because it is directly attached via belt drive system. So once you pull vacuum, the bypass valve closes and you are building boost. Where as with the turbo, you can drive all day if you so choose and not build boost. Also saving yourself gas mileage.

Now I ask you, which is better. Boost when ever you want it, or just a little boost all the time with the real punch not coming on until you are about to shift.

Also, with the turbo we can use a multi stage boost controller. So for daily driving we can use a measly 4 psi. With the flip of a switch that jumps to any number we want. This is where alcohol injection really shines. Once high boost is selected, the alcohol injection comes on at say 5-6 psi enabling us to run a great deal more boost without the risk of detonation do to the high compression stock pistons. With a Blower of any kind we'd have to pull over, stop, open the hood and change the damn pulley.

There is also no benefit to running a twin turbo setup in any form other then they look cool. I can get the same performance from a single then any set of twins. Unless we're talking something over 1000whp, then twins are a win win simply because of the volume increase of 2 compressors.

WD

[G_whizz]

Well... I have always shy'ed away from discussions in Turbos and Superchargers because I haden't a frick'n clue how they work.

Thanks for my first lesson B.