What do you dislike about the 350z.

[Fahaka]

If the Z was as cheap to purchase and modify as the s13, can you honestly say that you wouldn't consider getting one?

Yes I can, the problem with the z33 is weight. That is all I am saying, everything else is great, the price, the power, the equipment...it is ugly but who cares about looks, if I cared about that I wouldn't drive a butt ugly onevia.

If Nissan had built a stripped down simple sleek Z it would have a stranglehold on the segment. Think miata coupe with a slightly longer wheelbase and a vq under the hood. The competition would all be scrambling to compete. 300 hp in a 2500lb chassis is seriously fast.

To put it into perspective, that is 8.3 lbs/hp which is on par with a c6 corvette. With some conservative upgrades you could safely reach 400 hp and 6.25lbs/hp and then you are seriously fast that is a similar power to weight ratio of a z06 corvette or a porsche 911 turbo and other cars with a price tag easily doubling the cost of the Z.

[ldstang50]

I've crushed many z's. I don't need to prove anything to you. Your z is slow and you know it. Auto x is not a measure of a car but of a driver. I know guys who dominate auto x in fieros and Ranger trucks...lol Miatas too. Yeah I crush them too.

Many Z's are not driven by worthy drivers. Mazda offers contigency where as Nissan does not. So most of the good drivers run rx8's.Auto-x not a measure of car? Sure more driver is involved, but thats with any sort of racing. If you've crushed many z's then you should have no problem mopping the floor with me.

I have ridden in fast Z33s before, but they weren't stock. I liked them, but they weren't stock. Stock z's are slow.

I'm not saying a mid 13sec car is fast, but its certainly quick. Thats why most passenger cars are running 14s or slower.

As for crash rating and safety standards...that is bull. The Versa is light and crashworthy...

I know it is a Versa not a Z, but you'll miss the point. A lotus elise is crash worthy and it is lighter than a versa, your argument is that it can't be done. I beg to differ.

A lotus crash worthy? Why because it passed the minimum safety ratings to get into the country? I love the lotus, I think its one of the best cars made. But ANY sort of crash in it costs thousands of dollars. The body and frame are molded together with a special glue so any sort of crash breaks the bond and requires almost a complete 'reseal.'Oh by the way, I drive a Z and a Maxima, the Versa is up there as a joke.

The z is huge 3200-3600 lbs...no wonder it is slow.

Had nissan simply made a lighter car and put the vq in it, it would be equivalent to the original Z. That is all I am saying.

AgreedBut back to my original argument. How many cars today are made under 3000lbs?

You can hate all you want on the 240sx, I don't care. It is more like the original z than the current z or any other z since the s30.

I'm not hating, I like the S13, S14 and S15 (too bad we didn't get them here). I know the difference between a kouki and zenki s. I probably knew about SR20s and CA18's before most of the people on here. Benefit of being stationed in Japan 10yrs ago.

Hyundai had a promising rwd platform in the genesis, but guess what, they made it a gt and it weighs 3500+lbs. silly. I'll stick with my s13 and keep crushing z33/z34/g35/g37's...

Granted this is a bit tongue and cheek, because there are plenty of nissan fast z33's but most are sloooow! Why?

Because they are fat and overweight.

No...because many people don't like to mod their cars, they like them /for what they are and they are plenty fast as is. Not everyone wants or eeds a car with a power to weight ratio of 7.8/1.

[xjmxstac]

I agree, she's fat. That's fixable. But you can't deny that the z33 is the best handling Z out of the box.

[ldstang50]

Apparently some users needed it cleared up. Everything else in your post was spot on though.

No I did NOT need the cleared up. I very well aware of properly setting up a car. I'm going threw that right now with mine.

My whole point is, the z was designed to be a car for everyday people. Not some weekend warrior or Sunday driver. Laws have changed making it nearly impossible for automakers to make a car safe, affordable and fast. Ya the Lotus passes crash tests, but come one, do you REALLY feel safe in one? Have you even ridden in one? They are uncomfortable, impossible to get in and out of and loud. The z is a sports car the lotus is a harcore sports car...almost race car.

[ldstang50]

Thanks Morrie! I love that S30 vid - but that camerman has got to go. JFYA - I'd have been too busy just holding on.

STANG, since you were running on about the Z33 & autocross I was thinking about something while I was cleaning up around the yard today.

In SOLO the 350Z, including the vaunted Nismo run in what class? That's right, B Stock. The Honda S2000 and the Porsche Boxster both run in what..? That's right, A Stock. So too does the Porsche 911 (993), the Solstice GXP & the Sky Red Line. Guess what, all of them are lighter and putting down less power than the Z33. Oh, the NSX that everyone here was so ready to trash in a thread a couple of weeks ago, its A Stock as well. A well thought out and modified S13, S14 or any well thought out modified car for that matter is going to be even superior to these.

All you flag waving fanboys are killing me.

Now let's get this back on topic, shall we?

I'm very well aware of what these cars run in. Evo Sti's....A stock, E36 M3's are Bstock, C6 vettes and C5 Z06's...along with GT3's and Elise.As xj stated, a well any well sorted modded car will be superior to most other cars in stock form

My vid contributionhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01IwhhvkvFs

[R350Zz33]

hey he was saying the sky is blue but its really not im just sticking with the facts yes it appears blue but its really not.

[Fahaka]

Many Z's are not driven by worthy drivers. Mazda offers contigency where as Nissan does not. So most of the good drivers run rx8's.Auto-x not a measure of car? Sure more driver is involved, but thats with any sort of racing. If you've crushed many z's then you should have no problem mopping the floor with me.

Wow like I said I have seen guys in a $2k fiero stomp on much greater opponents in autox. I don't claim to be an auto x racer. You are and that is great. My car will still out turn, out run, out brake and get better gas mileage than your z. Sorry.

I'm not saying a mid 13sec car is fast, but its certainly quick. Thats why most passenger cars are running 14s or slower.

Show me proof that your car ran a 13 sec 1/4 mile with you driving it and maybe I'll respect that statement a little more. I've seen plenty of z's run 15's and a few run 14's but rarely do you see them in the 13's...usually because the drivers aren't drag racers...I'm not a drag racer either.

A lotus crash worthy? Why because it passed the minimum safety ratings to get into the country? I love the lotus, I think its one of the best cars made. But ANY sort of crash in it costs thousands of dollars. The body and frame are molded together with a special glue so any sort of crash breaks the bond and requires almost a complete 'reseal.'Oh by the way, I drive a Z and a Maxima, the Versa is up there as a joke.

Funny that you used the Lotus to bolster your argument and not the Versa because the Versa is one of the safest vehicles in its class. Sure it is expensive to fix a Lotus if you crash it, same with a Z or a versa for that matter. None are cheap to fix, but that is why I have insurance. I'm not buying a sports car based on its crash worthiness, if you are, might I suggest a Volvo or even a cage. I'm not saying I want a car that will kill me in a 5mph crash, but I will not refuse to buy a sports car based on those results. I am in the majority here as well...see also f150.

AgreedBut back to my original argument. How many cars today are made under 3000lbs?

I stopped counting at 20. Most notable are...Honda s2k, Mazda Miata, Pontiac Solstice, Nissan Versa, Toyota Yaris, Honda Fit...etc

No...because many people don't like to mod their cars, they like them /for what they are and they are plenty fast as is. Not everyone wants or eeds a car with a power to weight ratio of 7.8/1.

That explains the huge aftermarket scene (snicker) in the US. Have you been to SEMA?

If nissan built a Z with lb/wt ratio of 7.8/1, and it was still 3600lbs I still wouldn't be interested.

[xjmxstac]

hey he was saying the sky is blue but its really not im just sticking with the facts yes it appears blue but its really not.

Shut up if you don't have anything to contribute to the argument....

[Fahaka]

I agree, she's fat. That's fixable. But you can't deny that the z33 is the best handling Z out of the box.

I'll agree with that statement.

[Fahaka]

It's stock suspension may resemble the z32, but it sure didn't feel the same. It rolled and nose dived horribly in braking high speed corners. It felt like it had slinky for springs. It may be because it was narrower in stance than the z32? Maybe. I know that my z, in stock form felt nothing like that. It almost feels like there is no body roll at all.As fas as power, the domestic 240sx produced a little more than 1/3 the horsepower of the latest z33's. Light? a tad bit...about 500lbs. less weight than z33's. Nimble? If you mean hp/weight, then technically the z is more nimble.

The s13/s14/z32 suspensions are not identical, they are however the exact same type. In fact some of the parts are interchangeable. The 240sx you rode in was probably worn and needed what all 240sx's need...suspension overhaul. I put cusco ruca's in my s14 and they are the same part as the z32/r32/r33 ruca...that is just one example. The suspension geometries are different because the 240sx is lighter, but other than that they are the same type multilink mcphearson struts in the rear and multilink chapman struts in the front. IIRC.

Stock for stock, i agree, your s13 doesn't stand a chance. . Now modified equally (if that even makes sense), the z33 will still spank your s13. But you can argue the cost of doing such a build, hands down the s13 is a lot cheaper to build. I guess it all comes down to preference and budget. I just find it hard to believe that a fully built s13 is comparable to a equally modded z33 performance wise.

No I disagree, the 1000lb difference between a s13 and a z33 will be much harder to over come than the difference in power and handling of the 240sx. Not only are 240sx's cheap, but power comes cheap too. Even if you don't go sr or ka turbo, there are lsx and vq swaps as well.

Brady Dohrman's (sorry if I spelled that wrong Brady) s14 had a simmilar setup to mine, his car was originally heavier (stripped down he may have been a bit lighter than mine), had down force and hoosier slicks and he regularly dominated all but the very best of the time attack cars...

Now I am not saying that I am Brady and that I can go out tomorrow and start turning better lap times at PIR than a Porsche GT2 because I have the same setup as Brady...but how many Z's do you see out there? Is there even a Z car competing professionally anywhere in the world that is even remotely stock?

The major problem with the current Z and every Z since 1978 is its size. I love them as a grand touring car, and a cruiser, but a sports car they are not.

Had the new Z been a 2 seater coupe with a na inline six and weight under 2800 pounds I would consider it...but that is just my opinion.

[xjmxstac]

1989 240sx 2657 lbs, 140 hp 150 lb/ft (18.98lbs/hp) 2.4L i-4 KA24E1989 180sx 2657lbs, 203 hp 202lb/ft @7psi (13.08lbs/hp) 2.0L i-4T SR20DET2008 350z 3,339 lbs, 306hp 268lb/ft (10.91lbs/hp) 3.5L v-6VQ35HR

"Now I am not saying that I am Brady and that I can go out tomorrow and start turning better lap times at PIR than a Porsche GT2 because I have the same setup as Brady...but how many Z's do you see out there? Is there even a Z car competing professionally anywhere in the world that is even remotely stock?"

Again, you're comparing a highly modded, track specific s13 against a stock gt2. (This reminds me of an episode of Supercars when they had a shootout between a Viper srt-10, Corvetter Z06, and a highly modded Sti that was tuned for that track). You can probably guess who won.

Stock vs. modified, more often than not the modified cars will win. And you'll be sure to hear about it especially when the underdog pulls with the win. Just look at youtube. How often do you see: Civic beats Viper, or Supra beats Lamborghini or Z beats f-430 LOL.

I want to see a stock s13 beat a stock z33 in a track or a strip. I guess this age old debate can only conclude once facts and speculations are put on asphalt.

[Fahaka]

oh there is no question that a stock z33 is faster than any stock s13/s14 but so is a Dodge durango, pontiac grand prix, chevy monte carlo, mercedes m350, nissan murano and on and on...stock performance carries little weight I think.

[ldstang50]

oh there is no question that a stock z33 is faster than any stock s13/s14 but so is a Dodge durango, pontiac grand prix, chevy monte carlo, mercedes m350, nissan murano and on and on...stock performance carries little weight I think.

If stock performance carries little weight, why are you saying the z is slow when you rightly admit here the z is faster.....even with its heavy a$$?

Decent read on stock z vs SCCA T2 z. The touring classes are 'stock' classes in SCCA road racing.http://motoringjstyle.blogspot....html

[xjmxstac]

oh there is no question that a stock z33 is faster than any stock s13/s14 but so is a Dodge durango, pontiac grand prix, chevy monte carlo, mercedes m350, nissan murano and on and on...stock performance carries little weight I think.

If your stock s13/s14 can't beat a durango, monte carlo, grand prix, m350, or murano in a track, then you got a big problem...

[ldstang50]

Wow like I said I have seen guys in a $2k fiero stomp on much greater opponents in autox. I don't claim to be an auto x racer. You are and that is great. My car will still out turn, out run, out brake and get better gas mileage than your z. Sorry.

I am by no means a god of cars, I have no idea what you have or what you have done. If your car is putting out what you say it does, it should do most of the above, but I can't believe it will do ALL of them. When I was driving the car last year I got 25mpg avg, with a few trips netting me almost a 30mpg avg. In logging with auto-x, on a COMPLETELY STOCK set up, I regularly pulled over 1g in corners, and I was out of alignment. My SM Evo only pulled 1.5gs in corners.

Show me proof that your car ran a 13 sec 1/4 mile with you driving it and maybe I'll respect that statement a little more. I've seen plenty of z's run 15's and a few run 14's but rarely do you see them in the 13's...usually because the drivers aren't drag racers...I'm not a drag racer either.

I drag raced an Evo and Yamaha R6 before putting time down almost to the T of what the magazines did. I have no intentions of bringing my car to the strip, frankly I find it boring, but it wouldn't matter know as I put on my exhaust today.

Funny that you used the Lotus to bolster your argument and not the Versa because the Versa is one of the safest vehicles in its class. Sure it is expensive to fix a Lotus if you crash it, same with a Z or a versa for that matter. None are cheap to fix, but that is why I have insurance. I'm not buying a sports car based on its crash worthiness, if you are, might I suggest a Volvo or even a cage. I'm not saying I want a car that will kill me in a 5mph crash, but I will not refuse to buy a sports car based on those results. I am in the majority here as well...see also f150..

I only talk about the Lotus because you brought it up

I know it is a Versa not a Z, but you'll miss the point. A lotus elise is crash worthy and it is lighter than a versa, your argument is that it can't be done. I beg to differ..

I stopped counting at 20. Most notable are...Honda s2k, Mazda Miata, Pontiac Solstice, Nissan Versa, Toyota Yaris, Honda Fit...etc.

Maybe I should have been more clear and said sports cars or performance orientated cars.

[R350Zz33]

the z will always win so what if its a little heavy we can shave off the pounds with some carbon fiber and striping it down. some car companies are even offering a can of fix a flat to get rid of a spare tire and tools thats almost 50lbs right there add in your passenger seat carbon fiber hood and hatch remove wipers and motors unnecessary plastic and fluid containers hit the gym add all carbon fiber body pieces replace all the glass with lexan and thats about a good 300lbs plus that brings us at 3,000 . and im sure there is alot more we can do to lighten them up. but if my stock z against a stock 240 will never have a chance on the back-roads or high way. and for you argument about gas mileage i dident buy the car for good gas mileage if i did i would have gotten a prius.

[xjmxstac]

Is there even a Z car competing professionally anywhere in the world that is even remotely stock?

http://www.stargirlracing.com/http://ww ... 1040...and there's a couple of more...Kelly Hines' 06 350z was entered for Pike's Peak hill climb Some even found their way to Rally Car events in other countries!http://www.rallycarsforsale.ne...37427There's a few drag 350's out there but not very many...


Modified by xjmxstac at 8:16 PM 3/14/2009

[Fahaka]

If your stock s13/s14 can't beat a durango, monte carlo, grand prix, m350, or murano in a track, then you got a big problem...

0-60 times, nothing else.

[Fahaka]

I am by no means a god of cars, I have no idea what you have or what you have done. If your car is putting out what you say it does, it should do most of the above, but I can't believe it will do ALL of them. When I was driving the car last year I got 25mpg avg, with a few trips netting me almost a 30mpg avg. In logging with auto-x, on a COMPLETELY STOCK set up, I regularly pulled over 1g in corners, and I was out of alignment. My SM Evo only pulled 1.5gs in corners.

You can see my front & rear suspension and brake setup in this article:http://www.nicoclub.com/articles.php?id=194614

The car is a DD so no crazy camber or compounds, but when I do, it sticks just fine. My current tire size is 245/45/17 but I can go 275 with more camber and it really sticks well.

I have a built sr w/gt2871r, z32 mafs, 650cc, turbo back, fmic, and the necessary tune. I average 30mpg mixed socal driving. My best was 36.2 mpg on a trip out of state. at one bar similar setups make 325-350 whp. I have seen 12mpg when I give it hell.

I drag raced an Evo and Yamaha R6 before putting time down almost to the T of what the magazines did. I have no intentions of bringing my car to the strip, frankly I find it boring, but it wouldn't matter know as I put on my exhaust today.

so no proof? slip? vid? of 13 sec pass?

Maybe I should have been more clear and said sports cars or performance orientated cars.

s2k wat!
Modified by Fahaka at 10:25 PM 3/14/2009

[R350Zz33]

why do you need proof i dont. I believe what ldstang50 says he is a very reputable forum member. sometimes you just have to put trust in someone and believe what they say.

[Fahaka]

why do you need proof i dont. I believe what ldstang50 says he is a very reputable forum member. sometimes you just have to put trust in someone and believe what they say.

shenanigans!

[BigRiz]

I think they already did this......it's called the GTR

Not everybody can cough up $70K+ for a GTR. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't nissan develop the twin turbo 300zx and skyline GTR in the 90's? So what's wrong with doing that now?

[R350Zz33]

well one thoses skylines were never available in the u.s. done that all the info i need to win that argument.

[BusyBadger]

well one thoses skylines were never available in the u.s. done that all the info i need to win that argument.

You realize that Nissan sells cars in countries other than the US, right?

The issue isn't one of availability but rather, if its in a company's best interest to offer two similar models of nearly equal performance (in stock form of course!). So, you don't win the argument. In fact, you aren't even addressing the correct topic.

In response to BigRiz's question, I think the product line is a victim of the environment, both past and present.

When Renault helped out Nissan in the late 90's the company was in a bad position, they lost close to 70 BILLION Yen on their failing leasing business and traditionally accepted Japanese practices and business models like keiretsus started showing some of their (at least in the case of Nissan) weaknesses. The relationship between the two companies has provided many co-operative advantages; Renault gained access to Asia and America through Nissan and Nissan has gained greater access to Europe, as well as being transformed through access to Renault's approach to the industry. Renault has been quite good at securing contracts for fleet vehicles and has since put Nissan engines in many of their European cargo vans.

There was a price to pay though, Renault wanted someone different at the helm, enter Carlos Ghosn. Renault, or Carlos Ghosn in particular was also smart enough to keep the execs responsible for all the red ink with the company long enough to let them save some face, but also knew they were not to be kept on a long term basis. If they messed it up once, why leave them in a position where they could potentially do it again? Once he took over more than a few things changed.

Ghosn's a big fat trimmer and a proponent of components being used on multiple platform (VQ anyone?). I'm sure he's looking for ways to trim even more fat and boost sales further in the present environment. I can't speak for Ghosn, but I imagine he believes (rightfully so) that a higher performance Z would cannibalize sales from the R series.

Porsche has taken similar steps to hold back Boxster & Cayman development so it won't lure buyers away from the higher performing and higher priced 911.

History Lesson over. I'm also closing the thread as its strayed well away from the original topic (and spawned a lot of potential for new ones).

[rmezz13]

I believe the reasons they had similar abilities stock (z32 and r32, r33) the Z was meant for america from the get-go and the skyline was never meant for the U.S. ... It is when they made the US designed Z33 that they seperated the two dramatically which increased the demand for a skyline over here... If the Z would have had a power platform with two factory turbochargers like the Z32 had optional, the demand for a US Skyline wouldn't have been high enough for them to even produce another GTR. I tell you what though, it is a hell of a car (z33) in its stock and mildly modded form.