*Meet07* 450-500 whp build!! Finally is here!!

[meet07]

Ok just a little update.... Last spring I Installed the rush racing anti lag,purchased some mt et drags(26x8.5x15) and took her to the track for the 2nd time of the season. The next day I discovered oil in the intercooler piping, intercooler all the way to the intake manifold(ewwww) Im thinking that the t28 finally blew so that was an excuse for me to slap on my new manifold,DP and turbo!(Yay). After doing a leak down test I found that cylinder #2 was low(80psi out of 130psi on the rest) so I was forced to put the car out of comission until next spring = ( Well next spring is finally here and its time to put this thing back on the street where she belongs!!

Plans are:
-Wiseco pistons 87mm
-eagle rods(Thanks rbs14kouki)
-ACL mains and rod bearings
-ARP head studs and main studs
-Crank collar
-tomei oil restrictors
-balanced bottom end
-Boring .040 over
-head cleaned and checked,resurfaced
-debating on OEM head gasket or the cosworth casket 1.1 thickness
-possible 5 angle valve job

then Im gonna have to slap on supporting mods which will be:
-bosch 044 fuel pump(if not 2 walbo's--already have 2 laying around??)
-ss fuel lines
-fuel lab regulator(If I cant find a deal on a A1000-6)
-80lb Deka injectors
-fuel rail(may modify for twin entry. depends on the fuel pump setup)

I just moved into my 1st home(YAY!!!) and im lucky enough to have a gas station 2 minutes up the road that has a E85 pump(thats what ill be using) So im hoping with my build that I will be able to acheive my 450-500 whp goals. I enjoy drag racing so Ill be buildin my car for the drag strip and some highway pulls for the boys with the extra 2 cylinders. Im considering a bottle jsut in case but ill wait until I feel just the boost 1st = )

To start out with ill be removing the engine on Sunday...which is today since its 3:29 where im at. Tearing it down to actually put my eyes on the damage and then taking to the machine shop on Monday. Im also gonna cut the thin peice of metal the rest across the top of the radiator so im will to take on suggestions.

New Garage with teh 40 in it:

Seller left me a nice shelf. Thats where the engine interals are going:

Car:

Engine stand from a old freind:

Wish this was a borg Warner S366 =)

Will not be using this head gasket:

tire blow out on the way to the new home. 40 minute driving dirty.....

hope to replace this with the synapse BOV:

Dont trust it:

Redid the interior last month waiting till the house closed:



Where the modding will start this coming week:




If anyone have any pics of people modding the rad support I would be very greatful. I have a few but you could never have to many photos

Stay tuned!!

[Yellow4g63]

I don't think u will need E85 to hit your goal. If they have 93 pump gas where u live it should be cake to hit 500whp on pump gas.

[Carl H]

good old nc has 93 all day, every day...and if you're lucky to be near a sunoco they have 94!

[meet07]

So 93 over e85?? The pump is right down the road.......

[Sil240]

If E85 is regularly available and the car isn't a DD.
Then go for it.
But if you ever plan to take it on a road trip, make sure you can run two maps on your ECU
93 is easier to get.

[Carl H]

^ what he said.

[meet07]

If E85 is regularly available and the car isn't a DD.
Then go for it.
But if you ever plan to take it on a road trip, make sure you can run two maps on your ECU
93 is easier to get.

Yeah I already thought that through. Its a week end care only. I was thinking about installing a 22 gallon fuel cell but like I said I dont drive the car much. It will probably be on a trailer for road trips.

[Sil240]

Ok nice!!! So I'll get to see the car at TOTD2!!!

[meet07]

Ive been looking at this build thread: http://racingsouthwest.com/for...t=750

Pretty inspiration and has given me a few ideas for the front end.



Im probably gonna take a ton of measurements and draw out my plans over the next few days. Have to some how get the miller from work to the house.

Had a very late start today and the engine tear down was brought to a stop due to the fact that I didnt have a long enough bolt to bolt the engine stand to the engine.

1st thing I did this morning was hack up the front end:

started to pull the engine:


Thanks to Big Red:

Pulled her out:

Since Lowes was closed I went ahead and removed everything:

[Coolwhip]

coming along nicely.

[meet07]

I wasnt gonna work on the engine today since I had to pick up the little one but I couldnt resist since we went ahead and stopped by Lowe's on the way home to get the extended transmission bolts.

Removed the
-timing belt
-cam gears
-cams
-tensioner pulley's

with cams:

Without cams:

Cams:

Cluster of parts neatly organized!

My little helper =)

The page that I will hopefully start at tomorrow:


I couldnt remove the head b/c I could find my allen socket set. Hopefully there at work and I can remover the head,pistons,pan,crank and all. Would like to get the block to the machine shop this week but I forgot that I still need to order parts.

Im debating on wether or not to get a 5 angle valve job or wait till like next year or so. What kind of gains can be seen with this on the factory head??

[flatrate]

why the hate on the cometic gasket? ive had great luck with mine.

id do the 5 angle its not much more money and it may help a little.. id clean up the ports and get rid of that hump in the exhuast port... i regret not doing that now that my 25 is completly built ( very simular to yours)

EDIT, after looking closer, our engine builds are identical

i did go completly bone stock on the head, and i wished i hadnt now... definitly something to think about

[meet07]

My diagnosis was pretty much right on the money. Pics of the carnage:



Pistons 2,5, and 6 had broken ring lands. Pistons 5 and 6 seem to have something on the top of the piston. Im assuming it is carbon build up but im releived that the tear down was for a good cause.

I have yet removed the crank but that should be taking place tomorrow. That and the removal of the oil pump. Parts will be order probably tomorrow = )


all layed out and organized. Need to make a little more room:


Im gonna see if the boss man will let me bring the Miller home this weekend to have a little fun.

After reading this I pretty much made my mind up as far as cometic goes: post5068655.html?hilit=head gasket#p5068655
As much time and money that will be going into this build im not gonna take a chance with that gasket. I saw that hump that you where talking about. I think im gonna take some sort of rotary bit and smooth up the intake side a little. Saw some casting that looked restricting.

[meet07]

coming along nicely.

Any deals on some tomei orfices??

[flatrate]

any time you switch from composite style gasket to MLS both surfaces should be milled to a mirror finish..

mine was and i have 0 issues..

[Krazykouki]

any time you switch from composite style gasket to MLS both surfaces should be milled to a mirror finish..

mine was and i have 0 issues..

If you used a Cometic then consider yourself lucky...on my first RB I blew a Cometic on startup, installed a new one with a mirror finished head as specified and it gave out a week later...I got fed up with it and installed an OEM HG and sold the car.

[meet07]

Both surfaced don't need to be milled. My engine didn't over heat? Ill probably get the head resurfaced but im considering hitting both surfaces lightly with a wizz wheel with brass tips after scrapping the old gasket. Something I learner in high school auto tech :-)

[Darius]

If you decide to go withthe Cosworth, which I recommend, it would be a big NO NO to skip a step and not get the block milled at the same time. Get the block milled or you'll have troubles just like I did. Unless of course you like getting everything assembled and installed and then tearing it all back apart again to do it right when it leaks coolant.

Trust me on this. You already have it apart. There is no excuse why you wouldn't mill the block to ensure that it is straight. It costs like $50.

If you decide on the OEM gasket, you can probably cut the corner and only mill the head and be alright. Hell, you might not even have to do that.

[l0nestar]

If you decide to go with the Cosworth, which I recommend, it would be a big NO NO to skip a step and not get the block milled at the same time. Get the block milled or you'll have troubles just like I did. Unless of course you like getting everything assembled and installed and then tearing it all back apart again to do it right when it leaks coolant.

Trust me on this. You already have it apart. There is no excuse why you wouldn't mill the block to ensure that it is straight. It costs like $50.

If you decide on the OEM gasket, you can probably cut the corner and only mill the head and be alright. Hell, you might not even have to do that.

A bit long-winded, but this is experience talking to you.

[eh?]

Both surfaced don't need to be milled. My engine didn't over heat? Ill probably get the head resurfaced but im considering hitting both surfaces lightly with a wizz wheel with brass tips after scrapping the old gasket. Something I learner in high school auto tech :-)

That's fine if you're using an oem gasket. You can't do that with any MLS gasket. Not only does the surface need to be smooth it also needs to be almost perfectly level.
If you're not going to deck the block it would be wise to stick with a oem hg, it will be fine at 450hp.
Other recommendations:
Ditch the oil restrictors unless you've got a massive oil pump.
A single walbro and stock fuel lines/rail will do 450hp. I did 420whp on stock lines, fuel rail and I did 537whp with an intank walbro, external walbro, -6 fuel lines and a single entry fuel rail. So no need for dual entry at 450-500hp.
If you want to retain idle quality ditch the Deka injectors. I had them and it was impossible to have a nice clean idle > 13:1 afr. I had a pro tuner come out and he couldn't get it right either.
If you want cheap but decent forged pistons get Supertech pistons. I think I paid $500 or so for pistons and rings. You may need to notch the oil squirter cutout on the skirt but if you are getting the bottom balanced you will be ok.

[Carl H]

the weird abrasion on the pistons and cracked ringlands scream detonation to me...you may want to find a reputable tuner for this next go around.

[Krazykouki]

Both surfaced don't need to be milled. My engine didn't over heat? Ill probably get the head resurfaced but im considering hitting both surfaces lightly with a wizz wheel with brass tips after scrapping the old gasket. Something I learner in high school auto tech :-)

That's fine if you're using an oem gasket. You can't do that with any MLS gasket. Not only does the surface need to be smooth it also needs to be almost perfectly level.
If you're not going to deck the block it would be wise to stick with a oem hg, it will be fine at 450hp.
Other recommendations:
Ditch the oil restrictors unless you've got a massive oil pump.
A single walbro and stock fuel lines/rail will do 450hp. I did 420whp on stock lines, fuel rail and I did 537whp with an intank walbro, external walbro, -6 fuel lines and a single entry fuel rail. So no need for dual entry at 450-500hp.
If you want to retain idle quality ditch the Deka injectors. I had them and it was impossible to have a nice clean idle > 13:1 afr. I had a pro tuner come out and he couldn't get it right either.
If you want cheap but decent forged pistons get Supertech pistons. I think I paid $500 or so for pistons and rings. You may need to notch the oil squirter cutout on the skirt but if you are getting the bottom balanced you will be ok.

For E85 he will need a beefy fuel system.

also is that an ebay super t70 you have? if so, how well did it work?

[flatrate]

using any kinda abrasive small disk on an aluminum cylinder head is asking for problems, even more so on an inline 6

Nothing wrong with cometic, ive used them on mutiple cars with great success, never an issue..

Also making sure the surface finish is smooth like a mirror is almost important as making sure its flat, some machine shops have s*** machines or crappy cutters and they leave a less than desirable finish..

Ive always used cooper spray on all my MLS gasket installs

[meet07]

I agree with you lonestar....I dont question Darius. So I guess ill be ordering a cosworth head gasket tomorrow and milling the block.

Carl H: I thought detonation shows its face around the skirts of the pistons?? I though that the anti lag may have done this?? I didnt have any issues with tunning until I installed the z32 maf with the safc. For some reason it didnt like it. But yeah this go around im not playing with it. I prefer to get the most out of my setup and im not comfortable tuning at 500whp. Are you comfortable or have any locals that you trust with Nistune??

Eh: I wanna be safer than sorry. I plan on keeping this car for a very long time. eventually hard core cams,named brand turbo and 700+ whp. I wanna at least start with one 044 and when its time then install anouther with a surge tank. When im at the dyno I dont wanna have any hicups. And you say deka's are a no go?? I though oil restrictors where needed if you where turning high rpms as well??

Krazykouki: The super t70 use to be what I had on my intergra DA9 back in the day. This is the ebay *gt35* its like a 58mm turbo or something like that. Has a .68 turbine side. Im scared that it may run out of puff around 500 or fail but I guess ill have to chance it since im spending so much on the engine.

[eh?]

Eh: I wanna be safer than sorry. I plan on keeping this car for a very long time. eventually hard core cams,named brand turbo and 700+ whp. I wanna at least start with one 044 and when its time then install anouther with a surge tank. When im at the dyno I dont wanna have any hicups. And you say deka's are a no go?? I though oil restrictors where needed if you where turning high rpms as well??

.

Deka injectors had poor idle quality, everywhere else on the rpm band was ok. They are single cone injectors and who knows how well they are matched in flow. Either way if you want 700whp on e85 they won't be enough.

The RB25 oil restrictor suggestion comes from the Aussies and the RB26. The RB26 doesn't have an external oil drain like the RB25 has stock. I don't think I've ever heard of any RB25 having problems with oil pooling in the head and I rarely ever hear of any RB25's spinning bearings. The hydraulic lifters putting a limit on rpm is probably why. Keep the Rpm below 7500 and you will be ok. My opinion is unless you go with solid lifters, oil restrictors on the RB25 probably do more harm than good over the long run.

Right off the tomei website:
"ø1.5
・Combine with STD orifice to use
・For RB25&20, solid type engines ONLY
(not to be used on lash type RB20 & RB25 engines)"
http://www.tomei-p.co.jp/_2003web-catal ... ml#orifice

[meet07]

Eh: I wanna be safer than sorry. I plan on keeping this car for a very long time. eventually hard core cams,named brand turbo and 700+ whp. I wanna at least start with one 044 and when its time then install anouther with a surge tank. When im at the dyno I dont wanna have any hicups. And you say deka's are a no go?? I though oil restrictors where needed if you where turning high rpms as well??

.

Deka injectors had poor idle quality, everywhere else on the rpm band was ok. They are single cone injectors and who knows how well they are matched in flow. Either way if you want 700whp on e85 they won't be enough.

The RB25 oil restrictor suggestion comes from the Aussies and the RB26. The RB26 doesn't have an external oil drain like the RB25 has stock. I don't think I've ever heard of any RB25 having problems with oil pooling in the head and I rarely ever hear of any RB25's spinning bearings. The hydraulic lifters putting a limit on rpm is probably why. Keep the Rpm below 7500 and you will be ok. My opinion is unless you go with solid lifters, oil restrictors on the RB25 probably do more harm than good over the long run.

Right off the tomei website:
"ø1.5
・Combine with STD orifice to use
・For RB25&20, solid type engines ONLY
(not to be used on lash type RB20 & RB25 engines)"
http://www.tomei-p.co.jp/_2003web-catal ... ml#orifice

Ahh eh? I already ordered the restrictors........I just hold on to them and install them when I do upgrade to the solid lifters which will hopefully be next year. Im only looking for 500whp this year. Ill probably upgrade the fuel system again when its needed. I think a single 044 and 80lb injectors will do justice this season.

Im looking for a inline fuel filter. Do I need to look for one thats above 40 microns??

[Cjmartz2k]

I completely agree Eh. The aussie's spread around a lot of s*** as internet fact, when it is actually just the opinion of a few guys on there with 20,000+ post counts.

Like you said, I'd hold off on the oil restrictors until you go solid lifters (and I think they aren't need then either.) I'm pretty interested in the e85. I'll be watching to see how it goes with tuning and how hard it is to get in NC.

[Darius]

Ahh eh? I already ordered the restrictors........I just hold on to them and install them when I do upgrade to the solid lifters which will hopefully be next year. Im only looking for 500whp this year. Ill probably upgrade the fuel system again when its needed. I think a single 044 and 80lb injectors will do justice this season.

Im looking for a inline fuel filter. Do I need to look for one thats above 40 microns??

I've been running a restrictor and blocked oil passage for several years and haven't had any ill effects. I'm not revving the crap out of it or tracking it either, so who knows?

Like I said before regarding the fuel system for E85, if you want to keep it in tank, your best option is the DW300. Otherwise the 044 will be tough to get in there. OR simply mount it externally.

I've seen guys run a coarser 40 micron stainless filter in front of a 100 micron paper filter because of the debris the ethanol can release from the inside of the tank. Check the filters every 3,000 miles or so to make sure they are clean.

[meet07]

I completely agree Eh. The aussie's spread around a lot of bullsh*t as internet fact, when it is actually just the opinion of a few guys on there with 20,000+ post counts.

Like you said, I'd hold off on the oil restrictors until you go solid lifters (and I think they aren't need then either.) I'm pretty interested in the e85. I'll be watching to see how it goes with tuning and how hard it is to get in NC.

I live in a town outside of Raleigh called Garner. I literally have a pump 2 minutes down the street. And there is anouther station in Cary. My boy daily drives his da9 turbo b16 and he is running e85. I know thats got to be a pain but he keeps a spare 5 gallon jug with him lol. I think ill be ok since I will only be tracking and driving on the weekend. Cant put the little one in the race car since im a single dad and all

Ahh eh? I already ordered the restrictors........I just hold on to them and install them when I do upgrade to the solid lifters which will hopefully be next year. Im only looking for 500whp this year. Ill probably upgrade the fuel system again when its needed. I think a single 044 and 80lb injectors will do justice this season.

Im looking for a inline fuel filter. Do I need to look for one thats above 40 microns??

I've been running a restrictor and blocked oil passage for several years and haven't had any ill effects. I'm not revving the crap out of it or tracking it either, so who knows?

Like I said before regarding the fuel system for E85, if you want to keep it in tank, your best option is the DW300. Otherwise the 044 will be tough to get in there. OR simply mount it externally.

I've seen guys run a coarser 40 micron stainless filter in front of a 100 micron paper filter because of the debris the ethanol can release from the inside of the tank. Check the filters every 3,000 miles or so to make sure they are clean.

.

Ill probably keep my 255 intank and have it feed an external 044 to ad in clerance issues. Ive heard that the 044 out of the tank is fine. so my setup would look a something like this:

walbro>40>044>100>rail.....

or could I do away ith the 100 micron filter??

Removed the crank and oil pump today:

My new helping hand(still needs to be wired up)



Do you think I should clean up the castings in the block??

[Darius]

Definitely keep the 100 micron filter!

Nice air compressor!

Leave the castings alone. No need to mess with them.