KA vs. SR could get ugly
What I mean to say is that the fact that I don't have to be constantly worried that I have to go into a parts frenzy when something breaks on an SR is worth alot. I'd say $ for $ assuming you have time, a KA is the way to go. SR swaps done at home by anyone but a professional usually have some kind of snag, or wiring issue, or really needs to be troubleshot. Also, there is something to be said for making good out of what we think Nissan messed up in the first place. By that I mean making something formidable out of a motor that is ragged on constantly. SRs have been done and done a thousand times, KA-T offers a whole new plain to REALLY make something out of an engine no one thinks can. I know I'll be buying a junkyard motor and slowly building it up over the next year, while I run the miles out of my current KA. I'll run it till it dies, and keep building toward KA-T, and when my current motor finally kicks the bucket, I can easily put my built one in, even if it hasn't gotten the turbo kit. Then I have a brand new motor, with no swap hassles, and built to handle 400-450 hp. with the turbo kit.
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DonDonati88
- Posts: 508
- Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2002 3:01 am
trpower7 wrote:What I mean to say is that the fact that I don't have to be constantly worried that I have to go into a parts frenzy when something breaks on an SR is worth alot. I'd say $ for $ assuming you have time, a KA is the way to go. SR swaps done at home by anyone but a professional usually have some kind of snag, or wiring issue, or really needs to be troubleshot. Also, there is something to be said for making good out of what we think Nissan messed up in the first place. By that I mean making something formidable out of a motor that is ragged on constantly. SRs have been done and done a thousand times, KA-T offers a whole new plain to REALLY make something out of an engine no one thinks can. I know I'll be buying a junkyard motor and slowly building it up over the next year, while I run the miles out of my current KA. I'll run it till it dies, and keep building toward KA-T, and when my current motor finally kicks the bucket, I can easily put my built one in, even if it hasn't gotten the turbo kit. Then I have a brand new motor, with no swap hassles, and built to handle 400-450 hp. with the turbo kit.
lol... that is your justification for choosing a KA over an SR?
pssst.... You know, not too many guys are pimping out the Honda hybrid engine, you should do that and be even more original... who cares about performance right, just about being original and "making good of what Nissan made bad"...
Last time I checked performance won and originality didnt =)
Anyhoot, this thread is going no where...... I'm out.
n
There is alot to be said for originality. I'd respect and admire someone WAY more that made something out of a Honda hybrid engine than someone else with a B16 swap. Performance is around any number of ways, originality is why I'm not driving a 5.0 or Z28. If it was just about performance and less $$ that would be where my time and money were spent. But it's about personal preference, time, availability, purpose, etc. You just can't say that dollar for dollar, one way is better than another.
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Gladimor
- Posts: 94
- Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 7:15 pm
- Car: Girls, cars, Girls, mountain bikes, oh and Girls
Well the car was designed around the sr20 in japan, and a truck engine was thrown in when it was brought over here. The sr20 has the lighter aluminum block which provides better weight distribution which may not make much difference on the strip but on the circuit or autox it will. Also how many top japanese tuners are just itching to have the hot ka24de swaped into their silvias and 180sx race cars...:sad
I see I H8 UR DSM's opinion in having cheap spare parts available and that would be a very valid reason for keeping the ka, also the ka's torque will be more useful in city driving so if your not planing on doing much racing or creating a show car, you still might want to seriously consider keeping the ka.
Plus if you want to race a car with goobs of torque pick up a trans am or an SS camaro they are plenty good for planting the back of your head to your headrest at any RPM.
Peace.
I see I H8 UR DSM's opinion in having cheap spare parts available and that would be a very valid reason for keeping the ka, also the ka's torque will be more useful in city driving so if your not planing on doing much racing or creating a show car, you still might want to seriously consider keeping the ka.
Plus if you want to race a car with goobs of torque pick up a trans am or an SS camaro they are plenty good for planting the back of your head to your headrest at any RPM.
Peace.
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Structure240sx
- Posts: 5615
- Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 5:04 pm
Plus if you want to race a car with goobs of torque pick up a trans am or an SS camaro they are plenty good for planting the back of your head to your headrest at any RPM.
thats what i was planning on until i thought about how much insurance would be on one for a new 17 year old driver in NJ for any of them made int he past 10 years (the model's im in love with) i've been back and forth about which way to go and yea to get the sr swap done would be cheaper. but my reason for sticking with the KA once its time to turbo is simply the parts availiblitiy. being able to have a small block sittin in my garage will be the best insurance for me. and a lot cheaper too my uncle has bought and sold cores for the past 5 years he knows everyone around here
thats what i was planning on until i thought about how much insurance would be on one for a new 17 year old driver in NJ for any of them made int he past 10 years (the model's im in love with) i've been back and forth about which way to go and yea to get the sr swap done would be cheaper. but my reason for sticking with the KA once its time to turbo is simply the parts availiblitiy. being able to have a small block sittin in my garage will be the best insurance for me. and a lot cheaper too my uncle has bought and sold cores for the past 5 years he knows everyone around here
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TrunkMonkey
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Gladimor
- Posts: 94
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- Car: Girls, cars, Girls, mountain bikes, oh and Girls
Yeah that's the reason why I'm going 240sx instead of supra, I can push ALL my funds and a decent loan into buying a supra, and that's about it:pface! I'd rather have a porche/Mcar chaser that a stock supra that keeps sucking me dry on insurance and maintenance every month!
And demcj thanks for posting what I couldn't find, the dyno never lies:D!
Peace.
And demcj thanks for posting what I couldn't find, the dyno never lies:D!
Peace.
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WDRacing
- Moderator
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The last 20 some od posts are all CRAP. No one asked what engine was prefered. No one asked what was more original. The SR20 isn't original guys, they come in Altima's. Try the RB series for originality.
I haven't heard any good arguments as to why the SR would actually be better. I could make a KA with a stock bottom end hit 300hp at the wheels easily. So you can't say that its weak.
Where is the factuall evidence I was looking forward to reading. All I saw was " well everyone knows the SR will smoke a highmileage KA" what a line of BS.
I don't even own a KA yet, so don't go flaming about how I have pride in the OEM stuff. I'm actually a bigger fan of the RB series, which I've been racing for the last 4 years.
The hole thing about technology being a sub for displacement is retarded. Simply apply the same technology to the engine with more displacement...not hard to figure that one out.
Lets hear some good facts or particular reasoning behind why the SR should be favored, or vice versa.
WD
I haven't heard any good arguments as to why the SR would actually be better. I could make a KA with a stock bottom end hit 300hp at the wheels easily. So you can't say that its weak.
Where is the factuall evidence I was looking forward to reading. All I saw was " well everyone knows the SR will smoke a highmileage KA" what a line of BS.
I don't even own a KA yet, so don't go flaming about how I have pride in the OEM stuff. I'm actually a bigger fan of the RB series, which I've been racing for the last 4 years.
The hole thing about technology being a sub for displacement is retarded. Simply apply the same technology to the engine with more displacement...not hard to figure that one out.
Lets hear some good facts or particular reasoning behind why the SR should be favored, or vice versa.
WD
Wow, and you are a moderator???
"The last 20 some od posts are all CRAP. Know one asked what engine was prefered. No one asked what was more original. The SR20 isn't original guys, they come in Altima's. Try the RB series for originality."
- Eehhh, I actually had a post in this thread about originality and how it doesnt make any difference in the racing world, guess you didnt see it.
"I haven't heard any good arguments as to why the SR would actually be better. I could make a KA with a stock bottom end hit 300hp at the wheels easily. So you can't say that its weak."
- I could, I would, I should......
"Where is the factuall evidence I was looking forward to reading. All I saw was " well everyone knows the SR will smoke a highmileage KA" what a line of BS."
- False, read the whole thread again. Where is your FACTUAL evidence?
"I don't even own a KA yet, so don't go flaming about how I have pride in the OEM stuff. I'm actually a bigger fan of the RB series, which I've been racing for the last 4 years."
- Yeah, I bet you have.... you "original racer" you....
"The hole thing about technology being a sub for displacement is retarded. Simply apply the same technology to the engine with more displacement...not hard to figure that one out."
- So why arent you racing a V12, or a V10, or a V8?
"Lets hear some good facts or particular reasoning behind why the SR should be favored, or vice versa."
- The aftermarket alone would convince any SERIOUS racer to favor the sr20det over the KA.
I cant believe such an ignorant post has been made by a moderator...... I'm looking for a new forum to frequent.
Lets let actions speak louder than words, all you KA lovers go and prove how good the engine is... actually go out and race them... give them a good reputation... all this talk is really tiring.
the SR20det has NOTHING to prove, it is a legend in the country of its origin and has won numerous JGTC titles...
nils240racing.com
"The last 20 some od posts are all CRAP. Know one asked what engine was prefered. No one asked what was more original. The SR20 isn't original guys, they come in Altima's. Try the RB series for originality."
- Eehhh, I actually had a post in this thread about originality and how it doesnt make any difference in the racing world, guess you didnt see it.
"I haven't heard any good arguments as to why the SR would actually be better. I could make a KA with a stock bottom end hit 300hp at the wheels easily. So you can't say that its weak."
- I could, I would, I should......
"Where is the factuall evidence I was looking forward to reading. All I saw was " well everyone knows the SR will smoke a highmileage KA" what a line of BS."
- False, read the whole thread again. Where is your FACTUAL evidence?
"I don't even own a KA yet, so don't go flaming about how I have pride in the OEM stuff. I'm actually a bigger fan of the RB series, which I've been racing for the last 4 years."
- Yeah, I bet you have.... you "original racer" you....
"The hole thing about technology being a sub for displacement is retarded. Simply apply the same technology to the engine with more displacement...not hard to figure that one out."
- So why arent you racing a V12, or a V10, or a V8?
"Lets hear some good facts or particular reasoning behind why the SR should be favored, or vice versa."
- The aftermarket alone would convince any SERIOUS racer to favor the sr20det over the KA.
I cant believe such an ignorant post has been made by a moderator...... I'm looking for a new forum to frequent.
Lets let actions speak louder than words, all you KA lovers go and prove how good the engine is... actually go out and race them... give them a good reputation... all this talk is really tiring.
the SR20det has NOTHING to prove, it is a legend in the country of its origin and has won numerous JGTC titles...
nils240racing.com
well i am going to have to go w/ sr on this one because of things i have seen like the signal cars and other lil goodies like that but anyway .. all you people that love the ka so much i have one for sell here in bout 2 or 3 months ... cause my sr is going in .. it will have bout 90 000 on it then .. its got act stage 3 clutch.. and an intake ... you would spend double the money makin a ka as fast as an sr.... if anyone wants a turbo ka and lives in the south there is one in mobile..its pretty nice ..
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DonDonati88
- Posts: 508
- Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2002 3:01 am
:bowdown :bowdownNils wrote:Wow, and you are a moderator???
"The last 20 some od posts are all CRAP. Know one asked what engine was prefered. No one asked what was more original. The SR20 isn't original guys, they come in Altima's. Try the RB series for originality."
- Eehhh, I actually had a post in this thread about originality and how it doesnt make any difference in the racing world, guess you didnt see it.
"I haven't heard any good arguments as to why the SR would actually be better. I could make a KA with a stock bottom end hit 300hp at the wheels easily. So you can't say that its weak."
- I could, I would, I should......
"Where is the factuall evidence I was looking forward to reading. All I saw was " well everyone knows the SR will smoke a highmileage KA" what a line of BS."
- False, read the whole thread again. Where is your FACTUAL evidence?
"I don't even own a KA yet, so don't go flaming about how I have pride in the OEM stuff. I'm actually a bigger fan of the RB series, which I've been racing for the last 4 years."
- Yeah, I bet you have.... you "original racer" you....
"The hole thing about technology being a sub for displacement is retarded. Simply apply the same technology to the engine with more displacement...not hard to figure that one out."
- So why arent you racing a V12, or a V10, or a V8?
"Lets hear some good facts or particular reasoning behind why the SR should be favored, or vice versa."
- The aftermarket alone would convince any SERIOUS racer to favor the sr20det over the KA.
I cant believe such an ignorant post has been made by a moderator...... I'm looking for a new forum to frequent.
Lets let actions speak louder than words, all you KA lovers go and prove how good the engine is... actually go out and race them... give them a good reputation... all this talk is really tiring.
the SR20det has NOTHING to prove, it is a legend in the country of its origin and has won numerous JGTC titles...
nils240racing.com
Have you guys ever seen a ka24de swapped into a supra? Or in an rx7? or many other cars. Nope, and have you seen an sr20det powered supra.rx7, yup. I think sr is the way to go. I dont know why someone might want a sr over a 2jz, but its been done. Also ive read many time that stock sr internals are good up to 400-450 hp. With all the ka guys claiming they have to build at 300 hp. And when you build you probably wont replace all componets. Like alternator/starter/oil pump. Has anyone ever done an oil pump on a ka. IT SUCKS! with a 30,000 mile motor i dont see as much money being spent on minor repairs. I looked into this alot. I once wanted a turbo on my ka, and use nitrous to get turbo spooled quicker, but i bought an sr. Ka can be fast as hell, dont get me wrong. Both are great motors. Also what about parts availablity, yea there are more oem ka parts in america. Who wants oem stuff? when something breaks you replace it with a upgraded/performance part and then it shouldn't break again. Have the ka guys seen all the stuff available for the sr? Have you seen a intake manifold that makes almost 15 hp at 5000 rpms. Well greddy makes one for the sr. When you get into really high hp numbers almsot everything on the ka has to be custom, but you can call pahse2 and order anything you possibly could need for the sr and get it alot quicker. Why would someone want to buy a custom fuel rail which might be good, or might suck, when they can buy an hks they know works good, get injectors that drop in with mods and have a warranty?
SR ALL THE WAY.
SR ALL THE WAY.
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BuudWeizErr
- Posts: 4745
- Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 11:35 am
Nils = My Hero
I have made the same point on other forums when I was arguing for the SR. I haven't had any offers from anybody in Japan or Australia or Europe to buy my KA24 for $2000. Hell, I can't give it away. There is a reason why the SR is so popular. It's not a fad, and it's not the cool thing to do. It's the best idea if you want to make the most power for the least money. Done Deal.
KA vs SR fights are lame. I think I'm going to quit arguing for the SR, and just start letting everyone believe WTF ever they want to. I'll just race my car.
And honestly WD, I would expect a bit more maturity from a moderator.EDIT: And where do you live? Oh, Japan. Where you have 100x easier access to stuff that we have a hard time getting, and probably some stuff we don't even know about.
I have made the same point on other forums when I was arguing for the SR. I haven't had any offers from anybody in Japan or Australia or Europe to buy my KA24 for $2000. Hell, I can't give it away. There is a reason why the SR is so popular. It's not a fad, and it's not the cool thing to do. It's the best idea if you want to make the most power for the least money. Done Deal.
KA vs SR fights are lame. I think I'm going to quit arguing for the SR, and just start letting everyone believe WTF ever they want to. I'll just race my car.
And honestly WD, I would expect a bit more maturity from a moderator.EDIT: And where do you live? Oh, Japan. Where you have 100x easier access to stuff that we have a hard time getting, and probably some stuff we don't even know about.
i agree on that(the stop fighting issue) prove it on the track or road ..if its fast i like it .i just killed a huge drift coming out the mall w/ my ka w/ a damn intake .so i say 240's in general r the best bang for ur buck .. and if u love these kas so much please give me 1000 for mine...lol.. so i can pay someone to install my sr.
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stuofsci02
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2003 7:59 pm
The whole reason this thread was made was because I asked a guy who was Turboing his KA to 400HP why he hadn't considered doing the SR swap as iut might be easier and cheaper. I am glad to see that others think like me.
Also I would have to agree with WDRacing being quite immature. His first post regarding my comment was that I was "full of ****" and that I was wrong. Then he erased all my posts.
Anyways.. I have nothing against the KA, I think it is relatively easy to do a KA to 240HP and have a nice torquey little machine. But I think if you want 400HP, who needs the hassle or the additional cost?
Also I would have to agree with WDRacing being quite immature. His first post regarding my comment was that I was "full of ****" and that I was wrong. Then he erased all my posts.
Anyways.. I have nothing against the KA, I think it is relatively easy to do a KA to 240HP and have a nice torquey little machine. But I think if you want 400HP, who needs the hassle or the additional cost?
The numbers speak for them selves. If the ka is so bad azz then why dont they use it in the silvia in japan and abroad. maybe some do but not many. Ive owned my 96 240sx se for almost 41/2 yrs and my sr20det for 3 yrs And theres a big scene in dallas and only a couple are ka-ts' and they like them but for the money they would have done the sr swap. the ka cant even hold the boost the sr can. It couldnt even barley hold a 60 shot of NOS. The sr head gasket holds 18 pounds and up to 25 onthe block. thats pushing it but its true. rb motor are great but slightly more expensive and more detailed to instal. the sr swap is easy. all the info is on the web. The ka is a very strong block but not built for performance. But then again alot of cars arent either. The crank cant suppot much power. The sr can. sr sr sr sr sr sr sr sr sr sr. Were all different and different opinions. Theres not one perfect motor between the two but the sr outways the ka. I cant sell my ka motor and transmission for 200 bucks. sr parts are widley available anyways. half the s*** I get at courtesy nissan in dallas and then on top of that theres boost factor and ctc motorsports. cali theres plenty. east coast. plenty. online. plenty.The ka I believe does not have the oil squirters and the ka does. The valve train is stronger. The transmission in the ka sucks. I know. The syncros are s***. The sr you can slam into every gear without a grind. performance baby. yeah.
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TrunkMonkey
- Posts: 3190
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let's get this straight.stuofsci02 wrote:Also I would have to agree with WDRacing being quite immature. His first post regarding my comment was that I was "full of ****" and that I was wrong. Then he erased all my posts.
i erased all of your posts, and all the other posts that had nothing to do with the thread you're refering to. that included WDRacing's and some other members who voiced their opinions.
you were the one who came into the KA forum to voice your opinion about the SR. you didn't just ask a question, you tried to make the SR look better than the KA. i could care less about who thinks what engine is better, but what i do care about is showing respect to others. the oringinal poster asked a question that was being answered, but you had to come in and steer the thread into a KA vs. SR debate.
we've had problems with what i call "in house trolls". mainly SR guys trying to prove how much better their engine is. trying to convince people to "go SR". i say respect other people's opinions and decisions, whether it be CA, KA, RB, or SR. there are seperate forums for each engine. do not go into another forum to ask, what some of you might innocently say, "i just want to know why you picked this engine when this engine is clearly the better choice."
what get's me is if the SR is such an interesting engine, why do so many of you SR guys spend so much time in the KA forum?
-demetrius
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TrunkMonkey
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stuofsci02
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2003 7:59 pm
I am not an SR guy, I am a Nissan guy. The reason I was in the KA forum was to read what people were doing with their KA's and why. I think there must be a moderator for every god damn post in this place. You guys need to spend a little less time trying to steer conversations and more time encouraging discussion.
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TrunkMonkey
- Posts: 3190
- Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2002 7:48 am
- Car: 2000 Lincoln Navigator
steer conversations?stuofsci02 wrote:You guys need to spend a little less time trying to steer conversations and more time encouraging discussion.
i moderate 2 KA forums. and in either one of those forums, can anyone tell me where i've tried to steer a conversation?
there are several very good discussions going on in the KA forum right now that haven't been influenced by any of the moderators. questions are asked, questions are answered, and the thread doesn't turn to crap.
-demetrius
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TrunkMonkey
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btw, that's not what you were doing. you know it, i know it, and anyone who has read comments that you've posted in the KA forum knows it.stuofsci02 wrote:The reason I was in the KA forum was to read what people were doing with their KA's and why.
own up to your own immaturity...then grow up.
-demetrius
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Cyberkreig
- Posts: 3048
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- Contact:
demcj wrote:what get's me is if the SR is such an interesting engine, why do so many of you SR guys spend so much time in the KA forum?
-demetrius
Probably becasue every USDM 240 came with a KA in it. 90% of us didnt just pickup a scrapped car and put an SR in it. We drove our cars with the stock motor in it, we broke it, and we fixed it. Soem of us have even driven/lived with KA's longer than SR's.. Point being, maybe we know a thing or two about them and can lend a hand.
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sil80drifter
- Posts: 1313
- Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2002 5:53 am
- Car: 1990 240SX Hatch
MojoMan, do your damn research god*damit! Stop writing what people already wrote!1) KA-DE has piston oil squirters
2) Trannies are THE SAME, until s15 came out, which is when they made the 6-speed, obviously not available for KA, but people say it is weaker. What you make grind with poor shifting skill, what you didn't make grind when you bought/could afford/were let to drive an SR, when you already knew how to shift, and BAD SYNCHROS are very different things.
3) If the SR swap is easy, the adding of a turbo kit on a motor ALREADY in the engine bay must be even easier. Btw, since when is transforming the SR harness to fit the left steering wheel position/dash of the US 240Sx EASY?
4)A large part of the reason for the lack of turbo KA's is the fact that people only recently were able to turbo it (properly), since the kits for that were not always available. The KAT is a fairly new addition to the world of Nissan performance, compared to the SR. In Japan it was not even introduced as a turboed motor. I know of a quite a few people running 9-10-11 second KA24ETs in their Datsun 500s and 1600s. Just because you've never heard of it doesn't mean it don't exist. Also the SR became "the cool thing to have" and many people have it just to show it off in their cars, most not even using their (pretty damn good) capability. WD was right in being pissed off because people were just stating what they've heard, instead of posting useful information not based on their own opinion or something they heard from someone at some point in time.To make a 400HP motor be reliable and serve a long time, experimentation is needed. Sometimes things blow, WD has probably the most experience int hat area *L*. What the FUNK will you do when your SR blows? Get another 2000 dollar SR motor? You could get a somewhat used KA engine for 200 bucks, complete even with a transmission, if you think they are less reliable than the SR ones (THEY ARE NOT)... but you don't like the KA. You must be rich. Or ignorant.In the end, what you get should still be a matter of preference, or at least a rational choice based on a person's financial situation or performance goals. I'm sure somewhere along the line, the KA outweighs the SR in some aspects, and vice versa. But you can't flat out claim that one them is the best to get, JUST BECAUSE YOU THINK SO, or it is the best to get for YOU. It's never good to say "I claim it is, therefore it is." So back it up with things more factual than "I think it's better."
sil80
2) Trannies are THE SAME, until s15 came out, which is when they made the 6-speed, obviously not available for KA, but people say it is weaker. What you make grind with poor shifting skill, what you didn't make grind when you bought/could afford/were let to drive an SR, when you already knew how to shift, and BAD SYNCHROS are very different things.
3) If the SR swap is easy, the adding of a turbo kit on a motor ALREADY in the engine bay must be even easier. Btw, since when is transforming the SR harness to fit the left steering wheel position/dash of the US 240Sx EASY?
4)A large part of the reason for the lack of turbo KA's is the fact that people only recently were able to turbo it (properly), since the kits for that were not always available. The KAT is a fairly new addition to the world of Nissan performance, compared to the SR. In Japan it was not even introduced as a turboed motor. I know of a quite a few people running 9-10-11 second KA24ETs in their Datsun 500s and 1600s. Just because you've never heard of it doesn't mean it don't exist. Also the SR became "the cool thing to have" and many people have it just to show it off in their cars, most not even using their (pretty damn good) capability. WD was right in being pissed off because people were just stating what they've heard, instead of posting useful information not based on their own opinion or something they heard from someone at some point in time.To make a 400HP motor be reliable and serve a long time, experimentation is needed. Sometimes things blow, WD has probably the most experience int hat area *L*. What the FUNK will you do when your SR blows? Get another 2000 dollar SR motor? You could get a somewhat used KA engine for 200 bucks, complete even with a transmission, if you think they are less reliable than the SR ones (THEY ARE NOT)... but you don't like the KA. You must be rich. Or ignorant.In the end, what you get should still be a matter of preference, or at least a rational choice based on a person's financial situation or performance goals. I'm sure somewhere along the line, the KA outweighs the SR in some aspects, and vice versa. But you can't flat out claim that one them is the best to get, JUST BECAUSE YOU THINK SO, or it is the best to get for YOU. It's never good to say "I claim it is, therefore it is." So back it up with things more factual than "I think it's better."
sil80
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TrunkMonkey
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