Dude sweet.. KA supercharger kit!!

[Chezedik]

Thank you, I told a friend about the 5252 thing months ago, and he called me a liar. Maybe a little petty, but maybe I will have to give him a call.

[SCMASTER]

Thank you, I told a friend about the 5252 thing months ago, and he called me a liar. Maybe a little petty, but maybe I will have to give him a call.

HAVING THE FACTS ON YOUR SIDE IRRITATES THE IGNORANT. FROM THE DYNOJET'S TECHNICAL INFORMATION, THEY QUOTE EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE ALREADY SAID. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANY DYNO RUN WHEN PROPERLY SETUP AND CALCULATED TO NOT HAVE THE HP/TQ CROSS AT 5250 (5252 TO BE EXACT). AINT THE TRUTH A BIATCH SOMETIMES?

The engine's uncorrected power output is expressed as horsepower (hp) in the U.S. all dynos measure torque, then horsepower is computed using the classic equation:Horsepower = rpm x torque divided by 5252

I WILL BET THAT MOST OF THE DYNO RUNS ON NICO HAVE BEEN DONE CORRECTLY BY A KNOWLEDGABLE OPERATOR. MOST OF YOU CAN NAVIGATE THIS SITE TO FIND DOZENS ON DYNO RUNS. THEY WILL MOSTLY ALL HAVE THE PROPER CROSSOVER.

[Chezedik]

They have to. Horsepower is a derivative of TQ. This is because James Watt was looking for a way to rate the tourqe a steam powered water pump made in terms of how much a horse could pump. I was going to explain it, but I found something better. Haters beware, this is truth:

http://www.offroaders.com/info...e.htm

[travisn]

i understand all of the tq/hp relationship mumbo jumbo, but where does the 5252 number come from?

i love it when honda kids think their car is fast bc they have 140 hp... which is at 8 grand, an rpm they will rarely be in. what a joke some uneducated people are... example: i was at nopi the other weekend watching the portable dyno and some kid has his stock honda on there. why? who knows. well he got like 136 hp at 8 grand. and i heard him say somethign like "yea thats where i thought it would be. its pretty good because i want my turbo to kick in at 1500 rpm and vtec will kick in at 6k so ill have full power all the way up to 8 grand" i almost went over there and told that kid he is an idiot for expecting boost at 1500 out of a turbo. any turbo that can make boost at 1500 is too small to make any useable power... and a turbo that small would restrict at a high rpm... i feel bad for the guy running the dyno who has to act like he cares so maybe the kid will come back... i could never do that. sorry... end of rant...

[JesusLikesKFC]

sure it makes 140 eventaully.....but how long does it take to get there?? eh ....eh? dyno chart looked nice. tourqe machine.

[travisn]

well idk hondas so 140 was a guess...

origin of 5252 anyone?

[Chezedik]

Click the link. It explains it in terms that are a little confusing, even in plain english. It has to do with the size of the wheel a horse was made to go around, the size of the horse, the number of turns to move 550lbs, 1 foot in 1 second.

[SCMASTER]

well idk hondas so 140 was a guess...

origin of 5252 anyone?

IF WE HAVE A 1FT BAR WITH A 1LB WEIGHT AT THE END, AND WE MOVE THAT 1LB WEIGHT FOR ONE FULL REVOLUTION AGAINST A ONE POUND RESISTANCE, WE HAVE MOVED IT A TOTAL OF 6.2832 FEET (PI=3.1416 X 2FT CIRCLE) WE HAVE DONE 6.2832 FT/LB OF WORK. THE WATT EQUATION OF 32,580 /6.2832 = 5252, WHICH IS THE CONSTANT. JUST REMEMBER THAT THERE IS NO ACTUAL MEASUREMENT OF THE HP ON ANY DYNO--ONLY TQ. THEN THE FORMULA TRANSLATES TQ INTO HP. THIS GIVES A CALCULATED AND ACCURATE COMPARISON FROM ENGINE TO ENGINE. ONE MORE ITEM TO DO JUST FOR FUN. IF YOU MAKE 200FT.LB @ 5252 RPM, HOW MUCH HP WOULD YOU MAKE AT 12K RPM LIKE AN INDY MOTOR?

[travisn]

yea, i was crunching some numbers this morning and nothing worked... but it makes sense now

i dont understand how to calculate that little problem at the end, or even if it was to be figured out. how can you calculate what hp an engine will be at given a certain rpm? curves are different with each motor so there isnt a way to just figure it out with the numbers given. all i got was hp= 2.284(tq) and since the curve isnt linear you cant solve for 200hp at 5252 rpm and plug in the slope. idk, its been about 2 years since high school calc and 3-4 years since algrbra/graph stuff so maybe im a little rusty and missing something, but i am planning on going back to college for mechanical/automotive engineering next fall so i need to get back into learning/knowing.

[SCMASTER]

yea, i was crunching some numbers this morning and nothing worked... but it makes sense now

i dont understand how to calculate that little problem at the end, or even if it was to be figured out. how can you calculate what hp an engine will be at given a certain rpm? curves are different with each motor so there isnt a way to just figure it out with the numbers given. all i got was hp= 2.284(tq) and since the curve isnt linear you cant solve for 200hp at 5252 rpm and plug in the slope. idk, its been about 2 years since high school calc and 3-4 years since algrbra/graph stuff so maybe im a little rusty and missing something, but i am planning on going back to college for mechanical/automotive engineering next fall so i need to get back into learning/knowing.

OK--LETS LOOK AT THE FORMULA--TQ X RPM DIVIDED BY 5252 = HP. TQ IS 200. RPM IS 12,000. SO 200 X 12,000 DIVIDED BY 5252 = 457HP @ 12K RPM. BUT THE LINES WOULD STILL CROSS AT 5252 RPM (TQ & HP WOULD BOTH BE 200). I AM 50 YRS OLD, AND I READ FOR HOURS EVERY DAY. GET AS GOOD AN EDUCATION AS YOU CAN.

[travisn]

how does that work... a torque curve isnt a linear equation so how you can use an equation that doesnt take into anything but a simple rise/run formula. it is basically saying that every car that makes 200hp at 5252 rpm will make 457 hp at 12000 rpm. that can not be true. for example if you use a lower rpm, like 2500, to use in the equation you would get 95 hp. idk if that is a reasonalble number, but if an engine was turbo it would def not have the same power at 2500rpm as a SC engine would, or a NA engine. i am not arguing with you, but i never believe something until i understand it.

educate me

[Malac0da13]

im seeing the same logic that you r seeing...i mean i understand the converting torque...it seems like its an arc and should have like sine or cosine or tangent or sumptin like that...but what do i know i slept thru calc and failed it cuz i didnt understand derivitives

[SCMASTER]

im seeing the same logic that you r seeing...i mean i understand the converting torque...it seems like its an arc and should have like sine or cosine or tangent or sumptin like that...but what do i know i slept thru calc and failed it cuz i didnt understand derivitives

OK--LETS DO IT A DIFFERENT WAY. LETS USE THE FORMULA TO DETERMINE ANY HP OR TQ AT A SPECIFIC STATED AND KNOWN RPM. LOOKING AT OUR DYNO THE PEAK TQ OCCURED AT ABOUT 3800 RPM AND SHOWS 217 TQ.217 X 3800 / 5252 = 157HP, WHICH COINCIDES NICELY WITH THE GRAPH.UPON CLOSE EXAMINATION OF THE 271 DYNO GRAPH, I REALIZED THE COLUMN ON THE RIGHT IS KPA (ONE OF THE THE EUROPEAN RATINGS FOR PRESSURE), NOT FT/LB. KPA IS THE READING OF HOW MUCH BOOST THIS GUY WAS RUNNING, NOT TQ. 101 KPA = 1 ATMOSPHERIC PRESSURE. THE PEAK KPA WAS 170, SO 170/101 = 1.69 PRESSURE RATIO. USING OUR CONVERSION FACTOR OF PR = PSI + 14.7 /14.7, WE SEE 1.69 X 14.7 - 14.7 = 10.1 PSI BOOST. USING THESE NUMBERS STARTS TO ADD UP. THIS IS A EUROPEAN DYNO THAT MEASURES IN CONVERTED FLYWHEEL HP. SO, ASSUMING 150 HP, PLUS 10% FROM THE LARGER ITB'S, WE COULD GET:150 + 10%, X 1.69 PR = 278 FLYWHEEL HP. NOW IT ALL STARTS TO MAKE SENSE. HE WAS MAKING 271 FLYWHEEL (NOT WHEEL HP) @ 10 PSI BOOST, NOT 7 PSI. I WENT TO THE DYNO MANUFACTURERS SITE (MADE IN AUSTRALIA), AND THEY USE THE METRIC SYSTEM. SO IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW. BOOST WAS IN FULL BY 3900 RPM.

[Chezedik]

He is absolutely right assuming a constant VE of 100%. But in the real world VE does change at a given RPM, or more importantly air velocity. So, while this can be used to make rough calculations, this can never be used as a steadfast rule for determining power. But it is good information, and all things being equal, is accurate.

[travisn]

haha, derivertives were fun... but its been a while, a looong while...

scmaster, you went off on a totally different direction with that, you never finished the explanation of how to calculate hp/torque at any rpm with that formula... preach brotha, preach

[SCMASTER]

He is absolutely right assuming a constant VE of 100%. But in the real world VE does change at a given RPM, or more importantly air velocity. So, while this can be used to make rough calculations, this can never be used as a steadfast rule for determining power. But it is good information, and all things being equal, is accurate.

IT IS QUITE COMMON FOR MODERN TWINCAM 4-VALVE ENGINES TO REACH 100% OR HIGHER VE W/O BOOST, ESPECIALLY AT THE TQ PEAK. REGARDLESS OF THE RPM, THESE FORMULAS ARE ACCURATE DESPITE THE VE, AE, OR ANY VARIATION AS THEY ARE BASED ON ONE SET OF NUMBERS--THE DYNO'S TQ NUMBERS. THE DYNO DOES NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT VE OR ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE TQ REQUIRED TO SPIN THE DRUM AND THE ENGINE'S TACH SIGNAL TO DETERMINE RPM. ONCE WHEEL TQ IS KNOWN AT ANY GIVEN RPM, HP IS AN AUTOMATIC CALCULATION. EVEN SAE, DIN, AND OTHER RATINGS USE THE SAME ACCEPTED FORMULA. WHEN A FACTORY MOUNTS AN ENGINE TO AN ENGINE DYNO, THE DYNO ONLY MEASURES TQ. ALL OTHER RATINGS COME FROM THE ACCEPTED CONVERSION FORMULAS. VE, AE, THERMODYNAMIC EFFICIENCIES, ETC HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO BEARING ON THE OUTCOME. ONLY MATH DOES.

[Chezedik]

What I am saying is that TQ will not be linear due to VE at any given RPM. And while HP can be calculated at any given RPM, by knowing TQ at that RPM, you cannot make a blanket statement saying that TQ is X at 4K, and so it will be 3 * X at 12K. While the Math is a good starting point, other realities exists. They can also be explained in an equation, but certainly not one as simple as that. Do you get what I am saying?

[travisn]

im with chezedik on that one

[Sneaky-Russian]

Travis, Why are u up so early. I'm @ work so ...

[tloof]

Don't know if any of you have seen this yet, but the guy on the following site has a running supercharged KA24DE (using the Xterra M62 Eaton blower) in which he mounted it to the upper intake via a 1/2" homemade aluminum adapter plate in the exact same way that SCMaster's kit does.

Take a look at all the pictures, as they are quite informative.

http://www.ka-t.org/forums/vie...t=m62

[travisn]

haha, i had to get up early for work (extra half hour...) haha

[DaphneAL240vert]

Hey guys, unfortunately, I am suffering from a very acute condition called the brokeness, otherwise I would buy this all day long.: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...QrdZ1 This is the M60 Eaton that was talked about so much earlier in this thread for sale for the low, low price of $99!

[benemorius]

I really hate to do this. I've tried really hard to keep up with all the posts in this thread but it's a big *** thread. I'd just like to know whether an eaton kit is being or will be offered for the ka24e. I know I saw that a centrifugal kit is, but I just wasn't sure about an eaton.

[aaronsnocker1]

yeah the eaton kit is being offered. SCMASTER is making them and he put the details in the thread somewhere. You can also go to his website or call him and order one. I think for the base kit with supercharger it is 2500 or so.

[turbo300]

I really hate to do this. I've tried really hard to keep up with all the posts in this thread but it's a big *** thread. I'd just like to know whether an eaton kit is being or will be offered for the ka24e. I know I saw that a centrifugal kit is, but I just wasn't sure about an eaton.

if there is a high enouigh demand for the ka-e, we will offer an eaton kit for it also. it would perform at about the same level as the dohc kit. if three or more people place a deposit, we will produce the kits.

[Chezedik]

Am I missing something? Who is this guy?

[aaronsnocker1]

I believe he is a business partner with Mr. Knight(SCMASTER) who co-moderates the website where you can place orders for the s/c kit. Also the price in my other post is wrong . It says in an earlier post by Mr. Knight that the kit is $2995.

[Chezedik]

No, I mean Turbo300. We were dealing with SCMASTER, and now we aren't?

[aaronsnocker1]

No if you look back in the thread he is involved with the sales of these kits. I think on page 4 ?

[aaronsnocker1]

the new website for the supercharger systems will be up soon. it will have pricing, pics, descriptions, dyno videos and a forum moderated by mr. knight and myself. we will be releasing eaton based kits for twin cam ka's and intercooled centrifugal supercharger kits for both e and de's. we are also currently in the process of creating ka block to vg30dett trans adapters, z32 eaton kits, altima kits (eaton and centr.), new intake and turbo manifolds and twincharged ka packages.

the new site will be done soon, in the meanwhile deposits on eaton-based kits will be taken at the boosthead site.

http://www.boosthead.com

mark

That's the post I am talking about. I think he is legit to because the next post is SCMASTER and he doesn't say anything about this guy being a fraud.