Dude sweet.. KA supercharger kit!!

[sleepyRPS13]

making it carb for us f*** over cali would be great. but thats probably extra dough.

[JesusLikesKFC]

idea of this kit gives me a semi, but there are guys out there who are cheap stubern bishez...... hey if some want a ghetto rigged blower and a 50ish whp gain so be it. if it cost dirt cheap great. h/o this is balls out to the max. ghetto **** cant touch this, and great for others who dont have extra time and nessasary tools. still think the idea pwns.

[SCMASTER]

Don't get worked up about the naysaying. There will always be "THOSE IN LIFE WHO MUST CRITICIZE". I think most of us don't doubt that a custom designed, well tested and thought out kit by someone as experienced as you is worth money. Especially when it's the first. You are right, there has been a lot of talk on this forum for years (at least the two I've been here) about supercharging the KA but little action. So, speaking of well tested, I'm excited to see the dyno. Keep the progress coming. Some of us are very excited to see where you get with this. Like I said, I will definitely buy a kit from you when you are done fine tuning. And I save up some cash. I just dropped 3K on an engine rebuild and I want to do some more suspension work first.P.S. Kill the Caps Lock! There's no need to yell

SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS LOCK. I AM NOT YELLING. MY EYES CANT SEE OR READ PROPERLY WITH LOWER CASE. I WORKED AS AN EXPERT WITNESS FOR YEARS AND ALL LEGAL BRIEFS AND DOCS ARE IN CAPS, SO MY EYES READ CAPS BETTER. JUST AS A SIDE-NOTE, IF YOU USE CAPS ON ALL WORDS AND SIMPLY USE ONLY THE FIRST AND LAST LETTER OF EACH WORD WITH ANY DIGIT OR LETTER IN BETWEEN YOU WILL READ AND UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING AT VIRTUALLY THE SAME LEVEL. LEARNED THAT AT A SPEED READING COARSE I TOOK MANY YEARS AGO. WONT WORK WITH LOWER CASE. FOR YOU LUCKY ONES IN CAL, IT TAKES A $50K RETAINER AND A VEHICLE SUBMITTED TO THE CARB HEADQUARTERS. THEY TEST AND DENY ALL CLAIMS THE FIRST TIME, AND A YEAR OR SO LATER, AFTER MANY 'MEETINGS' AT HIGH PRICED RESTAURANTS, ETC, YOU FINALLY GET A CARB EXEMPTION. THE CLEAN AIR RESOURCES BOARD IS A GROUP OF MONEY-HUNGRY SELF PROCLAIMED EXPERT LOSERS LIKE MOST LIBERALS. THOSE OF YOU IN CAL WILL HAVE TO VISIT A REFEREE EVERY TWO YEARS FOR SMOG, OR REMOVE IT FOR TESTING. I WOULD RATHER DONATE MONEY TO THE SADAM HUSSEIN DEFENSE FUND THAN LINE THE POCKETS OF TREE-HUGGERS.THE REASON I ADDRESS THE THREADS WHERE DOLLAR FIGURES ARE GIVEN AS THE 'REASONABLE PRICE' IS THEY ARE SO DISINGENUOUS. 6016-T6 1/2" ALUMINUM PLATE IS $1250 FOR A 4' X 10' PLATE. EACH KIT USES 3 SQ FT/ KIT, SO ONE PLATE GIVES 11-12 SETS. THAT WORKS OUT TO $100+ IN ALUMINUM PLATE ALONE BEFORE ANY DESIGN OR WORK IS DONE IF THERE ARE NO MISTAKES. BUT MISTAKES ARE EXPECTED. ADD IN THE FACT THAT AS MANY AS 2-3 PLATES WILL BE WASTED IN POOR INITIAL DESIGNS AND PRE-PRODUCTION BLUNDERS. SO ALREADY WE SPEND $4K IN MATERIAL BEFORE THE FIRST PERFECT KIT IS BUILT AND SOLD. NOW ADD IN THE AUTOCAD INITIAL DESIGN AND REVISIONS, ETC. IT IS STAGGERING.MOST BULDERS WONT GO ON A SITE AND OFFER THE FACTS. THEY IGNORE THEM AND FOCUS ON ADVERTISING. I DO THINGS DIFFERENLY BECAUSE I BELIEVE MODERN ENTHUSIASTS ARE FAR MORE EDUCATED AND DO GREATER IN-DEPTH STUDY BEFORE PURCHASING ANYTHING. THE MOTTO 'THE BETTER EDUCATED CONSUMER IS OUR BEST CUSTOMER' HOLDS TRUE IN THE MODERN AUTOMOTIVE MARKET MORE THAN ANY OTHER TIME I CAN REMEMBER. SO I TRY TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT TO KEEP THE EDUCATION LEVEL HONEST.

[ShionS14]

any idea how to adapt the egr system to the sc? do you have any plans to make an egr setup? i think it would be beneficial since the feds are looking at passing cali emissions all over the country.

[SCMASTER]

any idea how to adapt the egr system to the sc? do you have any plans to make an egr setup? i think it would be beneficial since the feds are looking at passing cali emissions all over the country.

I HAVE ALREADY ADRESSED THAT IN MY MANUAL. THE EGR WILL HAVE AN ADAPTER PLATE AVAILABLE TO ANYONE WHO ORDERS A KIT AT NO ADDITIONAL CHARGE. THE FLAT AREA BEHIND THE BLOWER WOULD THEN GET A SIMPLE 3/8" HOLE TAPPED FOR A FITTING, AND THE EGR WOULD BE REMOTELY MOUNTED BY EITHER BENDING THE ORIGINAL MANIFOLD-TO-EGR PIPE, OR USING A CORREGATED STEEL FLEX PIPE FROM A PROPANE WATER HEATER (AVAILABLE AT HOME DEPOT FOR ABOUT $10. SO WITH A TIG WELDER AND THE FLEX PIPE, THE REMOTE EGR WOULD WORK AS IT DID STOCK. THE PURPOSE OF AN EGR USED TO BE REDUCED EMISSIONS DURING DECEL, BUT IT THEN CHANGED TO TIP-IN THROTTLE OPENING FOR LOWER NOX LEVELS (HIGHER COMBUSTION CHAMBER TEMPS LOWER NOX). AS FOR THE FEDS DOING ANYTHING, IT HAS BEEN TRIED BEFORE IN MOST STATES AND FAILED. LOSS OF REVENUE IS THE MAIN REASON. IT IS ALWAYS ABOUT THE MONEY, AND BEING THAT CAR EMISSIONS EQUATE TO 1/2 OF A % IN THE WORLD, IT IS BEING REALIZED BY MORE AND MORE PEOPLE THAT IT IS A USELESS ENDEVOUR. ONE SINGLE VOLCANIC ERUPTION SPEWS MORE CFC, CO, CO2, AND NOX INTO OUR ATMOSPHERE THAN ALL POLLUTION MAN HAS EVER MADE SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME. BTW, I STUDIED THIS 20 YEARS AGO. FACTS MAKE LIBERALS ANGRY BECAUSE THEY CANT ARGUE WITH THE TRUTH!!!

[ShionS14]

well i'm glad i'll be able to hook up the egr, can't wait until you are finished. it is not so much the feds anymore, the place where i live actually passed emissions so they can keep the funding they receive for being a "green" county. besides i like the challenge of making more power and still passing their emissions! when do you think you will have the info up on your site? after you have finished the test vehicle? any projected time frame?

[tloof]

Hey SCMaster,

Why are you so defensive & upset about my post concerning how simple it is to mount a Frontier/Xterra SC onto a Hardbody KA24E or Frontier KA24DE engine? I didn't criticize your design & kit for the 240SX, I only said that it is fairly simple to make the adapter plate, and brackets for the idler pulley. I also said that the drive pulley is fairly cheap to have made by a company in Stafford, Tx. that makes all sorts of pulleys & such for the SC industry.

For some reason you seem to think that you are the ONLY genius that has ever done this for the KA24 series engines, and while you certainly have been the first to actually offer a kit, you are NOT the first to have proposed your current design for fitup of an Eaton blower to that engine. I doubt even I was the first either, but if you go back several years ago on the FreshAlloy website under the Advanced 240SX section you will find that I had proposed the same concept in a thread about the same subject of superchaging a KA engine (I used that same post to create the one I posted here yesterday by cutting & pasting with some updates).

As for my statement that it is fairly simple to make the adapter plate, IT IS! I made a SC adapter plate for the KA24E conversion I was originally working on out of a 1" thick tool & die aluminum plate that I bought from a supply company for $75 (the company I bought it from cut out the exact rectangular size that I told them I needed for no extra cost). I then set the Xterra SC over that aluminum plate and marked all the mounting holes by hand and then drilled the tap size hole with my drillpress & tapped the threads by hand. Next I laid the assembly on top of the KA24E's lower intake that was bolted to the engine and lined up the blowers drive pulley with the custom crank dampener drive pulley that I had made & then marked the holes & outline of the lower intake on the bottom of the adapter plate. After that I drilled the marked mounting holes and hole sawed out the inlet port holes on the plate. I later went back with sandpaper rolls mounted on a shaft and rounded out the port inlets so that the airflow would enter smoothly. It was NO BIG DEAL to do all of that!! Since I wasn't trying to build a mass production plate I just did it all by hand which only took about six hours of work. That's why I said it was simple for anyone that has any kind of fabrication skills. If they don't, then a production kit such as yours is what they will need to buy to eliminate the custom conversion work required.

As for all of the costs that I encountered, they are as follows:1) Used salvage core blower - $1002) Rebuild blower with new bearings & seals - $2503) Aluminum adapter plate - $754) Custom drive crank pulley - $905) Scrap steel plate for idler pulley mount - $106) Steel idley pulley & bearing (salvage) - $107) 300ZX TT 370cc injectors (used) - $1008) JWT N/A ECU (used) - $3009) Reprogram of JWT ECU for boosted motor - $10010) Custom air inlet duct (made from exhaust tubing) - $40 Total - $107511) Throw in another $200 if a new JWT ECU is used - $200 Grand Total - $1275

Which is close to the $1200 I mentioned that someone could do this for if they fabricated the adapter plate & idler pulley brackets themselves!!!! (if a new JWT ECU is bought then yes the $1200 conversion cost will be overun by an additional $75 or so...still not bad at all!!).

Obviously if all of the above components were to be mass produced, then they should come down in cost over what it cost me, but I'm sure that there would be a certain minimum production amount to break even for the setup & tooling costs (thus if only a dozen kits were sold then I could see that you would have to probably sell them for at least double what it cost me for you to even make a profit?).

On last thing to mention, the porting work you talk about may well add slightly more boost, but in looking at these blowers it seems to me that rounding off most of the sharp edges & smoothing out the casting flaws with a sanding roll would achieve 90% of the flow gain for very little effort overall (maybe I am wrong, but I doubt it). It's not rocket science after all!!

Granted my conversion is on a truck version KA, and the 240SX variants will require a slightly different drive belt layout than mine; nonetheless, they are similar since I am using a 240SX manifold as well.

Just my 2 cents!

[tloof]

Hey Scruffy63,

I'll have to go back and see if I ever took any pictures of the SC setup I assembled on the SOHC KA24E I previously had in my 720 truck, but as I recall that was about the time that my old digital camera got broken (I dropped it on a rock during a vacation). I got as far as making the flat 1" SC adapter plate that bolted to the 240SX KA24E lower intake that I had retrofitted onto my Hardbody truck KA24E engine, and I also had the custom six groove serpentine drive pulley already made that replaces the stock power steering drive pulley and even has the original dampener pressed onto it (the Hardbody KA24E truck engine has a two piece crank dampener that has a removable six bolt outer power steering pump drive pulley that also has the dampener installed onto it...it is similar to the 240SX version except it has single V-belt groove instead of the 3 groove sepentine pulley that the 240SX has). I was just at the point of welding up some flat steel plate to create a new power steering bracket (I already had made a detailed drawing) that was to relocate it to the drivers side of the truck KA24E engine just above the distributor on several available bosses. At that point I was still trying to figure out how I was going to control the fuel injection system, but discovered that there was no easy & cheap solution to upgrade the injectors for the SOHC type fuel rail like there is for the DOHC fuel rail (a set of cheap used 300ZXTT 370cc injectors can be retrofitted to the DE's fuel rail, but for the E type fuel rail only JWT has modified 550cc ones that will fit and they are $115 a pop or $460 total for a set...ouch!). There was also the cost of a controller which is $600 from JWT, but luckily I later found a used one for $300 from a guy that was upgrading to another type aftermarket controller. For an additional $100 JWT will reprogram it for a boosted application using the 370cc injectors which can support up to 250 hp, which is all I will ever need!

Anyway, about that time I found a cheap $150 '99 frontier engine that had only 12K miles on it but that had had a top end fire that melted the top of the intake, head, & valve cover but still had a good bottom end. Since I already had a good '95 240SX head & intake setup I decided to upgrade my 720 pickup to DOHC status for added power and the ability to go with the cheaper 370cc injector setup. I had long since determined that the Xterra SC would actually fit to the 240SX type upper intake by mounting it on the bottom side in place of the stock plenum, but unfortunately the 1" adapter plate I had made for the SOHC version wouldn't work on the DE manifold (it has different spaced & sized port runners), so I will have to make another one for it that is 1/2" thinner in order to get the SC case to clear the oil filter. I planned to reuse the custom crank drive pulley I had had made, but that was when I discovered that Nissan had changed to a one piece crank dampener (the bastards) on the Frontier DE type truck engine. I finally decided that I could use a Hardbody two piece crank dampener on the Frontier DE engine as long as I had it rebalanced to match the original one piece version, but I have yet to do it due to other projects that have gotten in the way now (I had to pull off & rebuild the aircraft engine on my kitbuilt RV6 airplane, and i also bought a Porsche 968 convertible that I am upgrading so I am really busy at the moment and haven't finished the DE SC conversion in my 720 pickup..it's temporarily on the back burner).

From what I have examined thus far, I can easily mount the Xterra SC up to the 240SX upper intake (via the 1/2" adapter plate) along with keeping the stock Frontier power steering pump and mounting bracket in its original location. There is a flat steel plate (with stiffening flange at the bottom) that bolts to the power steering bracket and to some bosses on the front DE head cover to brace everthing that can be replaced with a deeper hanging custom made steel plate that will allow a flat face type idler pulley to be mounted up to it. Then the stock V-groove tension adjustable idler pulley located on the drivers side of the engine centerline can be replaced with a 6 groove serpentine type pulley, and the power steering pulley replaced with an Altima 6 groove serpentine pulley to complete the drive package (the 6 groove serpentine drive belt will come off the crank pulley and go around the SC pulley, then come back towards the water pump where it then goes around the fixed flat face idler pulley, and the goes back towards the passenger side to the power steering pulley going around it so that it then goes to the tension adjustable pulley on the drivers side of the engine above the water pump, and lastly goes back to the crank pulley. Unfortunately this arrangement won't work on the 240SX since it has a different accessory mounting setup (the power steering pump is on the drivers side of the engine), but the power steering pump could possibly be used "as is" in its stock location and a 6 groove Altima pulley mounted in place of the 3 groove pulley, and then a series of two idler pulleys (one adjustable for belt tensioning) mounted on a custom flat steel plate that is bolted to the 240SX head by use of an empty Frontier power steering support bracket (it will bolt to any 240SX head...but the '91-'94 head does require spacers to get it to sit correctly) and to the mounting bolt holes via spacers on the 240SX's front head cover. It would require a little bit more work, but it will work. Now it appears in SCMaster's photos that he is using the 4 groove serpentine center drive pulley off the 240SX style crank dampener to drive the SC & alternator with an idler pulley mounted between them on a custom steel bracket of some sort. That is certainly another way to approach this drive setup, but keep in mind that a 4 groove serpentine belt will not really provide enough surface area to avoid slippage at higher boost pressures, and probably won't last very long even at the lower 5-6 psig boost pressures normally used (that is why Nissan uses a 6 groove serpentine belt on the Xterra SC installation from the factory...as does Toyota TRD & GM on their SC installations as well).

One other issue, the SC inlet will require an adapter to be made with a short duct that the stock TB and AAV bolts to (the AAV can be remote mounted and attached via a hose to fittings threaded into a flat plate bolted on the AAV valve and the TB adapter duct), and then a custom duct is required to attach the remote MAF to the TB. I originally made my ducts out of 2 3/4" mandrell bent exhaust tubing by welding up a continuous single tube with all the required air connections on it, and connected it to the TB & MAF unit with NAPA diesel truck coolant hose. I then had the tubing CAD plated so it wouldn't rust. If you keep all the bends limited to only 45 or 90 degrees and don't require a complex form (like I needed when making the N/A inlet tube for the E type engine originally in my 720 truck), then you can just use straight aluminum tubing with rubber elbows like JTR sells (unfortunately they are only available in 2 1/2" and 3" sizes and not the optimum 2 3/4" size I like to use).

Well, this should give you a good idea of what all is required for such a SC upgrade!!


Modified by tloof at 7:52 PM 7/25/2006

[SCMASTER]

YOU MISSED MY POINT COMPLETELY. EVERYTHING YOU STATE IS 'USED' OR 'SCRAP' JUNK YARD COMPONENTS. IT IS SIMILAR TO SOMEONE SAYING "LETS GET SOME USED TURBO FROM THIS OR THAT AND PUT IT ON OUR CAR". WHILE THE CAR MAY BE FASTER, IT WILL NEVER--AND I MEAN NEVER EVER PERFORM LIKE A PROPERLY SIZED TURBO KIT. AND DEVELOPING THAT MATCHED TURBO WILL TAKE 5-10 DIFFERENT TRIM SIZES AND A/R RATIOS BEFORE THE IDEAL COMBO IS MET. YOU MISS THE POINT THAT IT IS DISENGENUOUS TO TALK ABOUT THE 'KIT' ONLY COSTING $1200 OR SO TO PRODUCE. YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY IGNORANT TO THE ACTUAL COSTS OF PRODUCING SOMETHING WITH ALL NEW COMPONENTS. WE DONT GET USED CORES AND JUST THROW BEARINGS AND SEALS INTO THEM. THOSE PARTS ARE $65. I PAY $125 FOR MY CORES AND BUY 30-50 AT A TIME. I DONT HIDE THOSE FACTS. THE PORTING PROCESS IS SOMETHING YOU WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND, SMOOTHING A CASTING FLASH IS NOT PORTING AN EATON PROPERLY. WE WELD UP THE HOUSING IN CERTAIN AREAS, OPEN UP SOME AREAS, AND ALL-IN-ALL REMOVE ALMOST 1LB OF ALUMINUM ON OUR EATON CASES. WE DONT SHARE THIS TRICK WITH OTHERS BECAUSE IT TOOK ME TWENTY YEARS AND THE HELP OF THE TWO LEADING AUTHORITIES ON EATONS TO ACCOMPLISH THIS. ANY COMPANY THAT WOULD USE SCRAP JUNK YARD PARTS FOR THE REST OF THE KIT WOULD BE STUPID. THE CONCERN I HAVE IS THAT SOME POTENTIAL BUYER WILL START TO BUILD A KIT BASED ON YOUR OVERLY SIMPLISTIC APPROACH, GET EXTREMELY POOR RESULTS, AND THEN STATE THAT SUPERCHARGERS DONT WORK RIGHT. YOU ARE ADDING FUEL TO THE FIRE WHEN YOU GIVE A REASONABLE COST FOR THE KIT AT LESS THAN HALF OF OUR NICO MEMBER'S PRICE. YOU ALSO STATE PRICES WOULD BE LOWER IF WE MASS PRODUCED THE KIT. YES, IF NISSAN BUYERS BY THE THOUSANDS BOUGHT THEM. THIS IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. HUNDREDS WILL, AND THE MACHINING COSTS WILL GO DOWN 10%. MATERIAL WILL NOT, NOR WILL THE REMAINING COMPONENTS. SO THE REASON I GET SO ANNOYED WITH THE ASSUMED PRICING OF A KIT BY UNINFORMED MEMBERS IS THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO ACCURACY TO THEM AT ALL. ALSO, THERE IS NO MENTION OF PROFIT IN YOUR STATEMENTS. OBVIOUSLY YOU DONT OWN A BUSINESS. HOW MUCH DOES A BOX OF CEREAL COST TO PRODUCE--20 CENTS--MAYBE 30 CENTS?. WHY ARE BOXES OF CEREAL $3 AT THE STORE? BECAUSE MARKETING, OVERHEAD, PAYROLL, ETC ADD TEN TIMES THE PRODUCTION COST. THE NET PROFIT ON A BOX OF CEREAL IS PROBABLY ONLY 17%, YET SOMEONE SOMEWHERE ON THE CEREAL MAKING BOARDS IS TALKING ABOUT HOW IT SHOULD ONLY BE 35 CENTS FOR A BOX OF CEREAL. DO YOU NOW SEE HOW RIDICULOUS YOU SOUND TO THOSE OF US WHO BUILD THESE KITS? HERE IS A PIC OF THE FIRST CUTS DURING THE MACHINING. LOOK HOW MUCH MATERIAL WE HAVE REMOVED. THIS GOES ON FOR ANOTHER FOUR HOURS ON THE MILL FOR EACH UNIT.

[CCurate]

Ok I wanted to stay out of this but " I standz all i can standz, i can't standz no more" hehe. n-e ways everyone here can agree that most things in this world can be done cheaper than someone might be selling it 4. we can all also agree that there are people out there that will look for those ways to do just that. Those who even go as far to share that info MIGHT be doing all of us a justice. Now that thats out of the way. Mr Knight is trying to provide a service like everyone else in this world. All of us who have the time and willingness (and money) to try this on our own, more power to you. wish you the best of luck. The rest of us who worked very hard to get our cars and make them the way we want them don't want to risk the do it yourself approach. And contrary to some of the nah-sayer beliefs stuff like this does take R&D. Also one of the reasons that all the big name companies charge so much more than the little guy. Like most of us here(i assume) will gladly let Mr Knight do all of that work too. All of us have seen the DIYers honda's that blow up 3 weeks after they finish. Reliability is the biggest worry most of us have with any mods we do to our car. The saying u get what u pay for is very true.

again i'm not saying it can't be done cheaper. But the same way everyone here wants to get paid for their time Mr Knight deserves the same. I personally would rather have him take all the guess work out of eveything (Fitment, tuning, etc,) and pay him for that. $3K is reasonable for a well-built, complete, RELIABLE, kit. Like he said

IT IS SIMILAR TO SOMEONE SAYING "LETS GET SOME USED TURBO FROM THIS OR THAT AND PUT IT ON OUR CAR". WHILE THE CAR MAY BE FASTER, IT WILL NEVER--AND I MEAN NEVER EVER PERFORM LIKE A PROPERLY SIZED TURBO KIT. AND DEVELOPING THAT MATCHED TURBO WILL TAKE 5-10 DIFFERENT TRIM SIZES AND A/R RATIOS BEFORE THE IDEAL COMBO IS MET.

All kit's I have seen cost about the same price. I refuse to spend money on something thats not going to give me xatally what I'm looking for. High HP # are not everything. Throttle response, low-end grunt, and driveability are also important, and don't get me started on torque (wonderful torqu). My car is very precious to me and i have no problem spend alittle extra cash to m ake sure she has the best. so whille there is always a cheap way out, it doesn't mean that should be road taken. If you needed a heart transplant would you go to a D-rate doctor b/c he is cheaper or go to the A-rate doc and pay the money. when push comes to shove it's your car. you do as you please. all i ask is if we can please stop with the thats too much money I can do it cheaper crap. we all know someone can do it cheaper. so lets leave this thread for those who have ? for Mr Knight about his product and the collection of data for such. Thanx

P.S. cause i know this will come. I'm not on Mr Knight's N*ts I'm tired of reading everyone's I can do it cheaper crap.
Modified by CCurate at 12:31 PM 7/26/2006

[D*star]

Wow...longest posts in NICO History??

[boznuttz]

to much strain on my eyes doods

[One_Love]

Wow...longest posts in NICO History??

...............

[onosqv]

Since you mentioned in your initial posts about supercharging auto's because of no lag... the car you dynoed was manual, and it needed a better clutch/flywheel. Will any tests be done on an auto 240?

Next, are there any "final" pics to see how the kit looks now, I know you were finalizing some details.

One of my things is that I like a very clean engine bay, and the throttle cable seems to be bent all over the place in your picture posted.

Lastly, wil there be a group buy in the near future?

[unichi]

THE CLEAN AIR RESOURCES BOARD IS A GROUP OF MONEY-HUNGRY SELF PROCLAIMED EXPERT LOSERS LIKE MOST LIBERALS.

huh... Seems like this statement applies to ALL politicians, not just the liberal types. Can we keep this discussion away from political name calling, please?

[Burnsey]

all i ask is if we can please stop with the thats too much money I can do it cheaper crap. we all know someone can do it cheaper. so lets leave this thread for those who have ? for Mr Knight about his product and the collection of data for such. Thanx

P.S. cause i know this will come. I'm not on Mr Knight's N*ts I'm tired of reading everyone's I can do it cheaper crap.

Modified by CCurate at 12:31 PM 7/26/2006

I don't so much think that tloof was doing this whole "I CAN MAKE IT FOR CHEAPER, YOUR RIPPING PPL OFF YOU B*STARD!" thing that your talking about .... he was presenting something he's done/experienced in the past and did not doubt or say that Mr. Knight was tearin ppl a new a-hole gettin these kits. I think he was rather respectful in that sense. However Mr. Knight does jump ALL OVER anyone who wants to present their own ideas concepts ... I will enjoy seeing the kit being sold by Mr. Knight and am kinda interested in it myself. But I don't enjoy someone trying to be like "I'm the ONLY one who can do this" and that and blah blah blah and he's just so offensive with his responses (or at least it seems that way to me) when anyone comments anything other than something that what he's wanting to hear at the moment. I respect Mr. Knight for his valiant efforts in getting this kit together and putting many hours into it and offering to the 240sx market so don't get me wrong. but i don't think tloof was coming off how you make it sound. and i think mr. knight responded in a manner like he was being attacked. Just my $.02 but I don't know **** bout cars but a supercharger sounds absolutely

[tloof]

Hey SCMaster,

I didn't miss your point at all. I was only detailing what I did and what is possible for those that have decent fabrication skills and who might want a relatively inexpensive conversion. Yes, I did use some used parts, but if you look closely at my post you will see that the used Xterra SC I used was rebuilt to new specs (it was done by Magnuson), which is really no different than what you are doing in your kit by using cores that you rebuild (with the exception of the additional porting work you plan to do in the full kit). So I guess that means you are using used CRAP too! (and as I recall weren't the first five kits you sold supplied with used SC's that were NOT rebuilt?...I believe that would qualify as USED CRAP!. Also, the used JWT ECU I am using will be sent back to JWT for a complete reprogram for use with a boosted KA & 370cc injectors...and how is that different from how you plan to do it? (no doubt you will be reprogramming a USED Nissan ECU too for your kit that is set up for use with 370cc injectors). So I wouldn't slam the parts I'm using & claim that they are used CRAP since you are doing the exact same thing!!!! (talk about the pot calling the kettle black!!). The only used items that I was planning to use "as is" were the 300ZXTT 370cc injectors, and I hardly think that qualifies as Crap! Yeah, if any of the injectors are bad then I will possibly have to ante up for a new one, but I will cross that bridge when I get there. As for the used steel plate I am using to make brackets, surely used steel is as good as new steel for such purposes!! (get real man!)

Note that I also admitted that you would probably have to sell your kit for at least double what it would cost anyone fabricating a conversion themselves in order for you to make a profit due to the setup costs, so perhaps maybe you didn't read my post very carefully?

Just for the record, I think it's great that someone (you) is finally producing a SC kit for the 240SX KA series engines. Hell, if it had been available a few years ago I would have been the first to buy one for my KA powered 720 pickup, but unfortunately it wasn't so I started the design & fabrication of a one-off conversion for myself!! From what I have discovered by using the Xterra SC most anyone with decent fabrication skills could match what I did (and what you have done) for about 1/2th the cost, but of course that does require a bit of labor! No doubt it would be much simpler if any of us could just buy a complete bolt-on kit including fuel control and not have to mess with all the fabrication time required, so your kit is a great alternative. I personally feel like it shouldn't really cost more than about $2000 total for the kit knowing how much all of the items really cost to make myself, but who am i to determine what you decide to price it at (though you would no doubt sell far more kits at that price than the $3000 price you currently have set). Also, i think you would potentially sell more than double to triple the SC kits that you will sell to the 240SX crowd if you built a kit for the Hardbody truck & Frontier truck crowd since there is over 20 times as many Nissan trucks on the road when compared to 240SX (remember, they were built from '90-'97 for the KA24E Hardbody & '98-'04 for the KA24DE Frontier in large numbers), and since the truck owners could really use additional power!

I do have one question for you though that I'm sure others in the 240SX community would like to know, how much power & torque does your centrifugal SC (BDT) kit produce on the SOHC KA24E in comparison to the Eaton SC DOHC KA24DE kit? In otherwords, will the SOHC with BDT kit match an Eaton powered DOHC engine? (since my 720 conversion was originally using the SOHC engine, maybe I should consider your BDT kit rather than finishing the Eaton SC DOHC conversion in my truck?)

[gepeto]

Once I see working cars with this, more pictures, maybe a review from someone, I might be willing to get one this winter for next summer, but my engine needs a rebuild first. It would be very nice as I dont want high HP, just a bit more HP and reliability.

[ShionS14]

Ok this post isn't about how to or who can or how much it costs to supercharge the KA. All this post is intended is for the 240 community to follow along with the development of a kit from a business and to ask questions. If you want to post a DIY guide to supercharging start a new thread dont take over this one

[scruffy63]

ps: I'd suggest starting your own thread before you get somebody yells at you.

can't say I didn't warn you.

[tloof]

Yeah, I guess you're right!

I just thought since the thread was about a SC development for the KA that my related project would be of interest to others on this site...I never thought such an uproar would occur!

Please forgive me!

[kclo4]

The thread was about a ebay link, it wasn't SCMASTERs or anything. It's great that he is developing a SC kit, but he needs to get over himself regarding others with a DIY mindset.

Good work tloof, any chance you can whip up a CAD drawing of your adapter plates and the like?

[SCMASTER]

The thread was about a ebay link, it wasn't SCMASTERs or anything. It's great that he is developing a SC kit, but he needs to get over himself regarding others with a DIY mindset.

Good work tloof, any chance you can whip up a CAD drawing of your adapter plates and the like?

WHEN I DO A DESIGN I AM NOT SAYING NOONE ELSE CAN DUPLICATE IT. I HAVE OVER 8000 KITS I HAVE DESIGNED AND BUILT IN MY LIFE. THE MAJORITY ARE COPIED, WHICH IS THE ULTIMATE COMPLIMENT. NEARLY EVERY ONE OF YOU HAS SEEN ONE OF MY KITS--AND YOU NEVER KNEW I DESIGNED IT. FOR INSTANCE, ALL THE RIPP MODS KITS WERE COPIES OF A DESIGN I GAVE DIRECTLY TO ROSS--THE OWNER OF RIPP MODS. I GAVE VORTECH SEVERAL DESIGNS AND ALL MY ENGINEERING DATA FOR THE SHAFT EXTENSION SUPERCHARGERS--YOU SEE THEM EVERYWHERE, AND I DESIGNED THEM IN THE EARLY 90'S. LOOK IN CORKY BELL'S BOOK SUPERCHARGERS WRITTEN IN 1997. MY '96 PROBE GT EXTENDED SHAFT EATON KIT IS PICTURED IN THE BOOK. THE ACURA V6 COMPTECH KIT IS A DIRECT COPY. WHAT I AM SAYING IS THAT A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF WORK GOES INTO DESIGNING A KIT. ONCE MORE DETAILED PICS START TO SHOW UP ON THE 240 SITES, MANY PEOPLE WILL TRY TO COPY THEM. I EXPECT THAT. THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT WHEN SOMEONE COPIES ANOTHER'S WORK, THEY HAVE ELIMINATED 99% OF THE TRIAL AND ERROR. MOST OF YOU DONT KNOW I APPRENTICED AT A DATSUN/ROLLS-ROYCE DEALERSHIP IN 1974, AND WORKED AT MIAMI'S FAMOUS Z-SHOP FOR A LONG TIME. I EATON SUPERCHARGED A NISSAN TRUCK I OWNED WITH A KA24 SOHC IN 1993, A 240SX SOHC THAT SAME YEAR, AND MY ALTIMA IN 2002. I EVEN BUILT A CIMA BLOCKED 3.7 STROKER SINGLE TURBO 91 300ZXTT THAT MADE 787 WHEEL HP IN '98. BUT A ONE-OFF EATON ONLY ENABLED ME TO GET A DECENT IDEA OF WHERE EVERYTHING MUST GO ON A KA24DE. I DO GET DEFENSIVE ABOUT THE IMPRESSIONS OTHERS MAY GIVE. THE IDEA THAT SOMEONE CAN BUILD A QUALITY KIT FOR LOW $$$ HAS HURT THE TURBO INDUSTRY. THE CHEAP CHINA COPIES THAT SELL FOR LESS THAN WHAT IT COST ME TO BUY A TURBO HAS REALLY UNDERMINED THE TURBO INDUSTRY. THE BRAZILIANS DID IT OVER 10 YEARS AGO WITH THE 'MASTER POWER' LINE OF DISPOSABLE HAND GRENADE TURBOS. THE SUPER CHEAP INTERCOOLERS SELLING FOR HALF THE COST OF A SPEARCO CORE HAS BROUGHT THE INDUSTRY TO A STANDSTILL. YOU CAN BUILD A DIRT CHEAP TURBO KIT FOR UNDER $1500, SO THAT HAS BECOME THE NEW STANDARD. THE PROBLEM IS THE CHEAP TURBO WONT SPOOL QUICK, IS NOT MACHINED ACCURATELY, HAS INFERIOR BEARINGS AND EXTREMELY POOR CASTINGS, AND AVERAGE 4-6 MONTHS OF USE BEFORE FAILING. I USED TO BUILD TURBOS 15 YEARS AGO THAT COST ME $500 IN PARTS, AND HAD A LIFETIME WARRANTY--THEY LASTED 10 YEARS. I CHARGED $850 WHOLESALE TO SHOPS WHO BOUGHT THEM KNOWING THEY NEVER FAILED. I NO LONGER BUILD TURBOS BECAUSE I CANT AFFORD TO. NONE OF YOU WOULD DREAM OF PAYING $1000 FOR A TURBO, AND NEVER PAY $800 FOR AN INTERCOOLER. HOW ABOUT $1000 FOR A TURBO HEADER? NO--MOST YOUNGER PEOPLE SEE THE $200 MANIFOLDS, TURBOS, INTERCOOLERS AND ASSUME THEY ARE OK. SO THE IMPRESSION GIVEN BY THE CHINESE PIRATE MANUFACTURERS IS THAT A TURBO KIT IS ONLY WORTH $1200, ETC. THERE IS NO DOUBT IN MY MIND THAT SOMEONE WILL BUY MY KIT, AND MAKE PLANS AVAILABLE TO OTHERS FOR ALMOST NOTHING. SO THE REAL DIFFERENCE WILL BE IN THE PORTING AND MACHINE WORK. THE STOCK EATON IS 55-58% EFFICIENT. THAT MEANS NEARLY HALF OF THE CRANK POWER CREATES HEAT. WE GET JUST OVER 70% EFFICIENCY, WHICH IS ALMOST IDENTICAL TO THE BETTER TURBOS OUT THERE. SO WHILE I DONT WANT TO CRITICIZE THOSE WHO BUILD THEIR OWN EATON KIT, I WANT TO MAKE SURE THE MAJORITY OF READERS UNDERSTAND THAT ONLY A HANDFUL OF YOU COULD BUILD A KIT FOR THE COST OF THE USED PARTS, ETC. THAT WILL NOT APPLY TO 99% OF THE READERS. IT IS MY CONTENTION THAT PLACING A USED EATON ON MY ADAPTERS WOULD BE GREAT. WE HAVE ALREADY HAD BETTER NUMBERS THAN MOST SR20DET SWAPS @ 7 PSI. THAT IS WHAT WAS OFFERED ON EBAY. BUT FOR SERIOUS BUYERS PAYING FOR A HIGH-END KIT, THEY GET WHAT THEY PAY FOR. THE PERFORMANCE WILL BE MIND BLOWING. AS AN EXAMPLE, MY 420A ECLIPSE KIT ON A BUILT ENGINE RUNNING 15 PSI MADE 428HP AND 388 TQ. OUR KIT ON A 2.5 V6 PROBE MADE 437 WHEEL HP @ 16 PSI. THE LEAD ENGINEER AT INJEN TECHNOLOGY INSTALLED ONE OF MY KITS ON HIS PROBE GT, AND AFTER I SHARED THE PORTING SECRETS WITH HIM SUCCEEDED IN MAKING 278 WHEEL HP AND 281 TQ @ 7 PSI ON A BONE STOCK ENGINE. THE NON-PORTED PROBE KIT MAXED OUT AT 235 WHEEL HP. PLEASE DONT MISUNDERSTAND WHAT I AM SAYING. ASK ANYONE WHO KNOWS ME--I HELP ANYONE WHO ASKS. BUT I DONT STAND BY WHEN I FEEL OTHERS ARE BEING MISLEAD. I AM NOT SAYING YOU CAN BUILD ONE FOR $1200--JUST THAT 99% ON THE READERS HERE CANT.

[tloof]

Well keep in mind that I never really made a drawing of the SC adapter to start with since I simply laid the SC case on top of the plate and hand scribed the bolt hole locations onto it (using the blower case as the guide), and then laid the entire assembly on top of the 240SX's SOHC intake manifold (as mounted on the engine) while alighning the SC's drive pulley up with the custom crank pulley I had made (I used a long metal straight edge to do that) and then I marked the mounting holes on the underside of the plate. Yeah, I suppose I could go back and make a CAD drawing of the SOHC adapter that I made, but the alighnment with the crank drive type pulley that is used will vary the actual location where the mounting holes & port inlet holes are drilled on that adapter. For example, some of you might decide to reduce the cost & effort of having a custom 6 groove crank drive pulley made and instead use a stock 240SX power steering 3 groove serpentine pulley, or perhaps use the truck version V-groove pulley and thus have to change out the SC's drive pulley to match thus affecting the adapter/intake manifold alighnment. In my opinion it would be easier to do it the same way I did rather than making the plate from a drawing so that it is more precise to the arragement used.

Also, I'm not so sure if the Xterra SC will fit under the hood of a SOHC 240SX since the hood line sits so much lower than on a truck like mine considering the fact that the blower case & drive pulley came within about 1/2" from touching the hood on my Nissan 720 truck (though I did use a thicker 1" plate rather than a 1/2" plate like SCMaster appears to be using on the DOHC conversion, so an additional 1/2" of clearance could be achieved by using a thinner 1/2" adapter plate).

As for the DOHC SC adapter plate, I haven't made that yet but I have set the SC case up to the DOHC's upper intake to evaluate the clearance available, and there is no doubt in my mind that a 1/2" thick plate is the maximum thickness usable to get the SC case to just barely clear the oil filter. I think it may also be helpful to convert to a remote oil filter setup to gain more clearance and make removing the oil filter easier. It also appears that the stock Xterra drive assembly is a tad bit too short to get the SC's drive pulley to line up with the custom outer crank pulley I originally had made for my SOHC SC conversion due to not being able to move the SC case far enough forward without hitting the back of the alternator as well as the recirculation port on the blower overlapping the rear inlet port on the 240SX upper intake manifold. Regadless, the boss on the SC case recirculation port has to be ground down and radiused anyway for a flat plate adapter to be used, so that issue may not matter (that wasn't even a problem on the SOHC adapter plate since all of the 240SX SOHC port inlets are spaced tighter together than they are on the DOHC manifold, and also because I used a 1" thick plate with a 1/2" deep section ground out of the center of the plate matching the blower case outline for additional plenum volume...thus the recirculation port had space to flow into). I might have to ante up for a Magnuson M62 extension drive (assuming it will fit on the Xterra's M62 SC) to get it to work on my truck version DOHC KA24DE with 240SX intake manifold, but you 240SX guys can probably get it to just barely fit up to the center drive pulley on your crank dampener (which is what it appears SCMaster's kit is using) since the 240SX DOHC engine has an entirely different accessory drive package layout in comparison to the Frontier truck variant.

[tloof]

Hey SCMaster,

Any comment on the difference in hp & torque between the centifugal SC (BDT) SOHC KA24E conversion and the Eaton SC DOHC KA24DE conversion?

[SimpleEnigma]

Well...I am very excited that an extremely reputable manufacturer of FI kits has decided to make an S/C kit for my beloved 240sx. The torquey nature of the KA motors is one of my favorite parts of driving the car, and Superchargers are the way to go (in my opinion) if off-the-line, wide-RPM-band Torque is what you are looking for.

I cannot wait until the finished product is tuned and ready, though it may be another year or two before i can afford a complete kit.

[onosqv]

Can my questions posted previously be answered? or acknowledge? thanks

----------------------

Since you mentioned in your initial posts about supercharging auto's because of no lag... the car you dynoed was manual, and it needed a better clutch/flywheel. Will any tests be done on an auto 240?

Next, are there any "final" pics to see how the kit looks now?

One of my things is that I like a very clean engine bay, and the throttle cable seems to be bent all over the place in your picture posted.

Lastly, will there be a group buy in the near future?

[Bigvinnie]

Mr.Knight how will your super chargers compete against FI turbo systems that use larger than T28's. From the majority of your results they carry well in comparison with a great torque range.After about 2500RPM it seems that turbo chargers can infact make more power after low 2500RPM range.Scooter (RBS14) is using 660cc injectors, ITB's, t36 turbo, and a haltech on an all stock block, this testing was at 7PSI..How do you plan on competing with much larger and effecient turbo's on the market, at the price you are selling your super chargers for and what type of upgrading would you have in developement to compete with turbo's of this nature. Last turbo charger I had seen on a KA didn't break 250WHP. As well noted you showed me your calculations on degerdation losses, how does that matter to such an open market with turbo's that have more effecient A/R's than your typical super charger.

[SeVa-S13]

Are this argumentative about things in real life, too?

I can appreciate good discussion but get the hell off the guy's nuts already; he doesn't need to defend every single whimsical criticism. Moreover, he doesn't need to. Potnetial customers know about big turbos, some of them don't want one and would prefer a supercharged engine and response; negating acceptable efficiency losses at higher revs.

P.S. - Mr.Knight, how about something for the RB series? I'm probably just daydreaming but the thoughts of a twin charged RB20 make the pants tight.

[Chezedik]

So bottom line, when will it be ready, and what kind of power will it make, for how much?