CVT Rattle/Noise - Discussion Thread

[RogueSeeker]

I have been working with my dealer for a year about the transmission issue. I - through my service mgr - heard about the fix coming out about two weeks ago,

I had the reprogramming performed on Monday. So far it seems to have done the trick.

I just hate it took sooooo long!

dk

[kerrton]

Good morning,

estrada_ed: I have an 08 Rogue and just got back this morning from having all of my recalls done, and I too did not quality for the TPMS nut recall, so it must just be certain build dates that had the faulty nuts. I wouldn't worry about it.

So, I had the Rogue in for the recalls and the squeeky steering wheel problem I've been having, and I went to review the work done and pay up and noticed that they did the TCM ECM reprogram without even telling me. I asked and he said that it was required work adn would improve the operation of the vehicle.

So, contrary to the wording of the TSB, the CVT reprogram is recommended for ALL 08-09 Rogues and I think some 2010's as well, depending on build date.

Driving it this morning I didn't notice any major differences, which isn't surprising considering I don't have the CVT rattle noise problem and I'm sure there aren't any major changes to the programming, just minor tweaks that will probably be difficult to notice.

[maverick_rogue]

Noticed this morning that after CVT TCM/ECM re-programming , it slightly lurches/ jerks while coming to a stop. I noticed it a number of times at traffic signals stop. Did you or any one who had this reflashing done experienced something similar? Its not an issue as such but just a minor thing.

[kerrton]

Yes, my Rogue definately does this too, but it always has and nothing changed after the reprogram. I believe it has to do with the torque converter disengaging which gives a brief surge.

I really don't care for this feature at all, I hear you. Not sure why some experience this and others don't, but I also think it has to do with how the CVT tunes itself to your driving preferences.

[estrada_ed]

Noticed this morning that after CVT TCM/ECM re-programming , it slightly lurches/ jerks while coming to a stop. I noticed it a number of times at traffic signals stop. Did you or any one who had this reflashing done experienced something similar? Its not an issue as such but just a minor thing.

No, my 2008 AWD never did it before and after the TCM/ECM reflash, it still not doing it.

[Igg]

I just called to schedule my 2010 AWD to have the TCM/ECM reflash done tomorrow. I will report once it's done.

[whatmorecanyousay]

Hey this news is encouraging. I just added the TCM/ECM reflash to my service call on Monday.

If the rpm at 70 comes down to 2100 that is an improvement of 500 rpm'sless on my wifes car. My 2008 ford with a 6spd transmission turns at 2000 rpmat 80 MPH and I get better millage on the road (27mpg+) than the Rogue.This could improve the road end but might diminish the lower speed benny on the Rogue as discribed.

Also I am wondering why some Rogue's are immune. Could it be the origin of MFG. My wifes Rogue was build entirely in Japan and although mfg in 7/2008 after the 2009 Tennesee builds came to market ECP/TCP in these cars may have been programed for Euro and Japan Travel model. The Nissan idea to quickly supply the lean avalibilty of the fast selling Rogue buy dumping a ship load on both coast with the idea of a high margin leftover sale but then the market fell in August and they put them in hiding until October where they blew them out at >$4000 below invoice for those looking for a loaded car and deal.

whatmorecanyousay

[kerrton]

Hey this news is encouraging. I just added the TCM/ECM reflash to my service call on Monday.

If the rpm at 70 comes down to 2100 that is an improvement of 500 rpm'sless on my wifes car. My 2008 ford with a 6spd transmission turns at 2000 rpmat 80 MPH and I get better millage on the road (27mpg+) than the Rogue.This could improve the road end but might diminish the lower speed benny on the Rogue as discribed. whatmorecanyousay

Not sure where you got this information? I don't believe this reflash should change the top gear ratio used at highway speeds, you're already using the highest gear ratio of the transmission so I don't think it's possible for the rpms to reduce, and it doesn't appear that this was the intent of the reprogram anyway, it's more geared toward lower speed performance. Or perhaps I've missed something?

[estrada_ed]

Not sure where you got this information? I don't believe this reflash should change the top gear ratio used at highway speeds, you're already using the highest gear ratio of the transmission so I don't think it's possible for the rpms to reduce, and it doesn't appear that this was the intent of the reprogram anyway, it's more geared toward lower speed performance. Or perhaps I've missed something?

kerrton:

whatmorecanyousay is correct. The RPM's in my Rogue went to 2100 at 70 MPH, but at 20-40 MPH are 200 RPM higher, which was also reported by maverick_rogue. So obviously, the TCM/ECM reflas is changing the RPM's for a given speed.

Ed

[maverick_rogue]

A few points that I noted today

1. Idle RPMs have increased as well. It appears that this reflashing has increased RPMs for most of the driving conditions at below 60 MPH though this is just a guess work. My assumption was it would be increased only for certain Torque conditions. Slight lurching increase that i noticed may be a result of it.

2. I reset my trip computer after reflashing at dealership and the mileage it shows now is a bit lower (around half MPH). This may be a premature conclusion but logically higher RPMs might result in slight MPH reduction.

3. The lugging issue between 20~40 MPH used to cause jitters while merging on freeways. I felt much better today. Acceleration has improved considerably.

I do not know first had as to how it works on the CVT noise issue as I haven't experienced it.As I hear now, that too has been resolved.

Overall, I am happy I did it. Why didn't they release this software update patch earlier?

[kerrton]

Thanks for the information, pretty interesting. I'm sure this was the absolute fastest they could get the patch released, because it no doubt took a lot of time to properly diagnose the problem, develop a solution, then test the solution to ensure it worked as intended in all of the millions of potential driving conditions without causing any new problems or potentially dangerous situations.

Just something to keep in mind, when you had the new reflash/reprogram, your computer was reset and should now be in learn mode again. I would guess that if you drive conservatively that the higher rpms you're referring too could again drop down to where they were before once the learn period is completed and the TCM and ECU is tuned to your driving habits. If you drive aggessively on the other hand, this may not happen. Bottom line, I'm suggesting that the reflash may not be completey to blame for the change in rpms, but the fact that it's memory was reset may also be to blame.

Just some thoughts, only time will tell!

[philipa_240sx]

Overall, I am happy I did it. Why didn't they release this software update patch earlier?

Actually I am quite happy that Nissan took the time to carefully research the problem and fully test any software updates before releasing them.

I go back to my story about the MINI CVT... they were releasing software updates continuously. My friend must have had the CVT programming updated a dozen times or more... it was a joke! Just test it 100% and be done with it!

[mx6bfast]

I got my letter in the mail today advising me of the warranty extension and voluntary recall. Based on the reviews here I'll be getting this done shortly. How long does it take to do the flash?

I wonder if this will affect gas mileage?

[maverick_rogue]

I had it done yesterday..Three recalls (TPMS Nuts, Steering Cap and CVT Reflashing) took around four hours. It might vary from dealer to dealer.

I too believe that it will impact Mileage but this is just a guestimate. We can confirm that after running a couple of full tanks.

[maverick_rogue]

Actually I am quite happy that Nissan took the time to carefully research the problem and fully test any software updates before releasing them.

I presume the software they used was copied from any other model (May be Murano) and they scaled down load parameters.It might have worked well in road tests but certain driving conditions might be putting too much strain on the CVT resulting in reported noise issues. This meant extra long time to rebuild the software and testing approval and so on.....Again this is just a hypothesis and I am glad to see Nissan standing behind its product by extending its warranty to 10 years.

I go back to my story about the MINI CVT... they were releasing software updates continuously. My friend must have had the CVT programming updated a dozen times or more... it was a joke! Just test it 100% and be done with it!

I too believe they have done thorough testing this time. In a couple of months we will get to know the results in this forum

[Sanders630]

Just something to keep in mind, when you had the new reflash/reprogram, your computer was reset and should now be in learn mode again.

Is this for sure... not trying to doubt anyone. Just want to know for sure to make sure the wifes driving style is kept as conservative as possible. Thanks

[kerrton]

Sorry, I should've cited my source on that bit of info., the last thing you want is someone's opinion when you aren't sure if it's fact or not.

I asked the dealer if the reflash was the equivalent of erasing the memory of the ECU and TCM, and he told me yes, it would now "re-learn" my driving behavior. IMO this isn't really anything to worry about, it'll learn the same driving habits as it did the first time I'm sure!

[Sanders630]

Thank you for the clarification... Much appreciated

[Nick 568]

Got mine reprogrammed today. I didn't notice much of a difference, but I never had any sort of rattle issue beforehand.

[IdaCrue]

Went in to get my TCM reprogrammed yesterday. After about an hour the service manager came out and told me that the TCM kept hanging up while they were reprogramming it. They contacted Nissan Technical Services and were informed that, from all indications, the TCM was bad (fried). They have a new one on order, and I have a Chevy Cobalt loaner car. They had done several before mine without a problem, and I know the Tech they had work on it, he is one of the best in the shop.......I don't know what happened, but I am without my Rogue

[BigPapi'sRogue]

Got mine re-programmed (on transmission # 2) yesterday morning, and the noise is gone. Amazing how much money Nissan ate on transmission replacements, isn't it. Of 6 Rogue owners that I either know personnally or "know of", 3 have had their CVT's replaced (including me). 1 of those 3 is even on his third transmission.

Anyways, ...

Can someone please either point me to a link or give some more detail on what previous posters have described as the TCM being in "learning mode?" On the surface, this doesn't make much sense to me because both my wife and I alternate between who drives which car. When I drive, its mostly highway driving over long distances, high speeds, with little braking, and when my wife drives its just about the opposite: short distances, lots of stop and go, low speeds. Seems to me it could get good and screwed up.

[philipa_240sx]

The TCM (transmission) and ECU (engine) computer both have a 'learning mode'. It's primary purpose is to compensate for component wear/tolerances... fine tuning if you will. Different drivers using the same vehicle will not 'screw' things up. Here is why:

1) The self learning features are continuously running and small adjustments are made over a long time period. It occurs very slowly, not in hours but rather the total life of the vehicle.2) The adjustment range is very narrow, in many cases you will not even notice it occurring.

If anything, the more conditions you drive under (cruising, sporty driving, etc) the more data the computer can gather and actually tune the systems quicker and more accurately. So get out there, drive your Rogue and enjoy it!

[IdaCrue]

Went in to get my TCM reprogrammed yesterday. After about an hour the service manager came out and told me that the TCM kept hanging up while they were reprogramming it. They contacted Nissan Technical Services and were informed that, from all indications, the TCM was bad (fried). They have a new one on order, and I have a Chevy Cobalt loaner car. They had done several before mine without a problem, and I know the Tech they had work on it, he is one of the best in the shop.......I don't know what happened, but I am without my Rogue

Today I was told that the TCM for my Rogue was unavailable and on backorder, and they couldn't get ahold of anyone to find out when they expected to get them in. I hope nobody else has this problem when they get the software update. Now my Rogue is sitting at the dealers, and I am driving a used Chevy Cobalt loaner car that they were nice enough to give me.....

[kerrton]

The TCM (transmission) and ECU (engine) computer both have a 'learning mode'. It's primary purpose is to compensate for component wear/tolerances... fine tuning if you will. Different drivers using the same vehicle will not 'screw' things up. Here is why:

1) The self learning features are continuously running and small adjustments are made over a long time period. It occurs very slowly, not in hours but rather the total life of the vehicle.2) The adjustment range is very narrow, in many cases you will not even notice it occurring.

If anything, the more conditions you drive under (cruising, sporty driving, etc) the more data the computer can gather and actually tune the systems quicker and more accurately. So get out there, drive your Rogue and enjoy it!

Thanks Phil for clarifying, I apologize for not being completely clear from the start.

The learning function does not have a defined start and end point, it's an iterative ongoing process and like Philip said the adjustments are very fine, and is always gathering data to most accurately capture your driving styles.

Like I said, nothing to worry about, the only reason I brought it up was because of the reports that the car operates slightly differently after the TCM and ECU were reflashed - I was speculating that some of the changes could have been due to the memory being reset and all of the "learning" and fine tuning being lost, but this was just an educated guess.

[2009 Indigo Blue]

I have a 2009 & mine never rattled, but I got that notification in today's mail stating that I can go in & have the reprogramming of the transmission ctrl module & the engine ctrl module.

I still had to go in for that recal notification from another issue, so I'm going to get it all done in 1 trip. I'll probably be there half the day.

[RogueGuy45]

Got mine re-programmed (on transmission # 2) yesterday morning, and the noise is gone. Amazing how much money Nissan ate on transmission replacements, isn't it. Of 6 Rogue owners that I either know personnally or "know of", 3 have had their CVT's replaced (including me). 1 of those 3 is even on his third transmission.

Anyways, ...

Can someone please either point me to a link or give some more detail on what previous posters have described as the TCM being in "learning mode?" On the surface, this doesn't make much sense to me because both my wife and I alternate between who drives which car. When I drive, its mostly highway driving over long distances, high speeds, with little braking, and when my wife drives its just about the opposite: short distances, lots of stop and go, low speeds. Seems to me it could get good and screwed up.

Yep, layers of bureaucracy lining the pockets of people is not an exclusive American idea. Apparently it happens in Japanese companies as well.

[kerrton]

Yep, layers of bureaucracy lining the pockets of people is not an exclusive American idea. Apparently it happens in Japanese companies as well.

Well this one is out of left field, and kinda over my head, what are you getting at here?

Your idea doesn't seem to relate to the post that you're quoting which describes CVT's being replaced, but nothing about bureaucracy and or mention of some group who may be profiting from faulty CVT transmissions. Who are these "people" who are profiting?

[whatmorecanyousay]

Yep I had the reprogram last week as I was headed for my 3rd replacement. The week before the rattle came back although intermitent and went away with warm up.

No Rattle after tcu and ecu reprogramed and here is what I noticed.

Braking at under 30 no longer sends the tac under 1000 rpm (or free wheel). It tries but is knocked back to 1200. This tells me that the interaction is designed to tighten the drive belt. Or keep it taunt.Lower rpm is noted at about 40mph where it was always 1500rpm. It holds at 1300rpm up to about 44 now. High speed. If all proves out and I have not taken a long drive the rpmreduction at 60mph is a significant 400rpm reduction. At 80 where it was regularly buzzing at 2900 to 3000 rpm is reduced to 2400rpm.

I suspect overhaul that besides not letting the belt drive slack that somehow the drive range on the transmission has been extended for US drivingand my guess is that we might even get a jump in highway gas. I will see this in a few more days when I take the car on an extended ride because of the weather and the need for a AWD. (the reason I mention US driving because my 2008 unit was completly mfg in Japan, not Tenn)

Note: we have been using the new Taurus for the long road drives because of comfort but also because the MPG is more than we expected from a 3.5 ltr engine. Yes MPG better than the 4 buzzer. The rpm ratio's are better on this 6 speed auto to our surprise. The ford was an excellent transition from large Lux cars over the last 45 years. My wife will not give up on her Rogue and loves the car. I love it in the snow and ice.

Bob

[AceMax]

I took my Rogue to the dealer for the two services: Upgrade for the transmission and the Rack and Pinion Brackets. My Rogue had the rattle since I bought it (Sept 2009) and today was resolved!

[DanTheMan]

The only thing that I notice is if I am slowly bringing the speed up, it sounds as if I am driving a manual and needing to downshift to a lower gear. I notice this up until around 35-40 MPH. Once I reach these speeds, it is gone. If I accelerate faster, I never even notice it. Again, it isn't loud or anything like that, it's just that it seems like the gearing is off for a brief time.

Should I worry about this? I have a 2010 SL FWD that has about 2K miles on it. I have noticed it from day one but, it really isn't an issue with me (and I hope it stays that way).

Thanks,