CVT Rattle/Noise - Discussion Thread

[mendjahn506]

When I took my Rogue in because of the noise in August, they told me I was the 12th one this year to have the transmission replaced at that Dealership. Had the transmission replaced and it started making the same noise again 4 weeks ago. Took it back.......they checked it and said it wasn't the transmission but something to do with the computer. They said they had been replacing transmissions uncessarily. The computer upgrade is supposed to emliminate the noise...and again i was told it wasn't the transmission. So why the the 10 yr. warranty? Once I get the letter we are meeting with the General Manager of the Dealership and then going from there.

I did not pay for this automobile in February to have it go sour. .....within 3,500 miles and it still has not been resolved. It is very obvious there is an issue with the Rogue and until it is resolved...I would not recommend anyone buy one. Why would you......to only have issues ......with a BRAND NEW CAR?

[kerrton]

mendjahn, I already answered your question...it's because you got a lemon or a lemon/defective part, but that doesn't mean that every Rogue has this problem, you're a statistical outlier so to a new potential buyer your story is not relevant. The vast majority or Rogues have above average reliability and the same goes for happy owners, you are just one out of a million.

EVERY manufacturer has defective outliers, that's why there's a warranty. I have a friend who bought a 2007 Toyota RAV4, the car never ran properly and he had his transmission replaced 3 TIMES and it still doesn't run right!! Now there is a guy who is angry and would never recommend buying a RAV4, but consumer reports etc. all give the RAV4 very high quality rankings. So with your logic, how can this be? The Rogue also has VERY high quality and reliability rankings by a variety of sources.

So my question to you is, does my one single story mean that all Toyota RAV4's are crap and that you shouldn't buy one? I'm eager to hear your answer.

[mendjahn506]

I absolutely love my Rogue, except for the noise issue and having to spend the time I do at the dealership. I shouldn't have to. What do you have to say to all the other people that have had the same issues..........

You must work for Nissan..........I will handle this with the General Manager, then the next move is Consumer Affairs Department @ Nissan.....

[kerrton]

Man you've gotta read my posts more closely....I'm not defending Nissan, I'm trying to discuss the topic logically and keep a lot of emotion out of it, because people read these forums to help decide on their next vehicle purchase. I understand that you're upset about your vehicle having a defect, it sucks I know, and you definately should push until you get a proper resolution.

I have a 08 FWD Rogue that had a defective CVT from the beginning, it's well documented in this thread if you want the details. My dealer immediately informed me that the 2008 Rogue and Altima CVT had a "weak design", or defect, and that Nissan quickly addressed the problem and made a small design change to the 2009 CVT, which eliminated the problem. A few early 09 Rogue's were still affected, but for the most part it was an 08 problem. So they ordered me a NEW 09 transmission, installed it in half a day and I have had flawless driving for the past year and 10,000 km.

Just because I had a defect doesn't mean that everyone who buys a Rogue will have the same problem, you can't make this judgement unless you look at a large sample size, the source would be consumer reports, TrueDelta or any of these that track vehicle reliabilty. I've checked the numbers, and the Rogue has above-average reliablity, so it's a good vehicle to buy. If you get a lemon, that sucks, but it's possible to get a Toyota or Honda lemon too.

[roguester]

I have an 08 sl awd w/prem.pkg, the transmission was replaced and it has been one of my favourite vehicles. I love the mileage, handling, comfort and I would buy one again.

[williammoses]

Mendjahn506:

I understand how you feel about the issue with your vehicle because I went through it myself before I traded my Rogue in for a different vehicle.

When discussing automobile quality, many people neglect to understand that perceptions of quality are sometimes inseparable from actual quality. All auto makers understand that quality and consumer perceptions of quality are inextricably entwined.

What I have in common with you is what you have in common with Kerton--we are consumers. I believe Kerton is as affected by his perceptions as you and I are affected by our own perceptions. When I owned a Nissan Rogue, I felt like you do. Now that I don't own a Nissan Rogue, it's easier to appreciate what Kerton has to say.

You have shelled out $25,000+ for a product that is defective. Nissan may put forth a reasonable effort to make you whole, but it's up to them to decide what's reasonable. Kerton can't help you with ant of that.

[BigPapi'sRogue]

Hello all -

It has been quite some time sinced I posted to, or for that matter, visited this forum. My local Nissan dealer replaced the CVT and transfer case in my 2008 AWD Rogue in July, 2008 when the car had just over 4,000 miles on it due to the famous gurgling rattle noise. Since that time, the car had been operating perfectly .... and quietly.

UNTIL, this past weekend. 28,000 miles and almost 1 1/2 years later, the rattle returned - just as I was cruising the mall parking lot for a space on Black Friday. The unmistakable sound, to all of us who have experienced it. It's not as loud, nor as frequent yet, as it was in my first CVT - and I cannot always reproduce it at will yet, like I could back then - but this car is on its way back to the dealer.

[BigPapi'sRogue]

Per my previous posting right above, I brought my car back to the dealership service center because the noise recently returned, after having had the transmission replaced a year and a half ago.

I went for a ride with a service technician, and then another ride with the Service Manager. Both of them heard the noise, and the Service Manager basically said "yep, that's the noise." The Service Manager said he wanted to research it with Nissan, because it had been several months since he last looked into one of these personally. He was also very surprised that this was happening on a replaced transmission, and one that had almost 30k on it since replacement. He was very nice, and called me personally the next day.

I'd like to validate what he said on that call with anyone on this forum who can corroborate his statements to me, not in any particular order:

1) Nissan now understands the issue, and is no longer authorizing any more transmission replacements for it. He admitted to me that my original transmission replacement, and others, have been done needlessly and at a great expense to Nissan. They took this drastic step because the car was still a new model with little to no history, and it took them a while to understand the problem.

2) They will be able to address it in a software update to the TCM (tranmission control module). This update is not yet available.

3) I had asked him about whether there was a newer or modified transmission that doesn't have the problem - mainly because I read that on this forum. His answer to me was that there is a slightly modified transmission, but the change to the system between this one and the earlier one had absolutely nothing to do with the "noise problem." In short, those newer transmissions can develop the same problem as the original transmissions. Some may, some may not.

Summing up, he basically told me to keep checking with service every oil change or so as to whether the TCM update had become available.

Has anyone heard similar from their dealer service centers?

[kerrton]

Well now that is REALLY interesting, and probably the first new piece of info/news that we've had surrounding this issue in more than a year I bet.

I agree, if this is true, then you'd expect several other owners to report the same story, although this problem seems to be very rare lately, after the initital surge of 2008 owners.

If a reprogram for the TCM is the solution, I hope it's available soon!! Thanks a lot for sharing this.

[Brian_SLAWD]

I didn't see any mention of this just yet, so I thought I'd post it here as a heads up. I just received a notification from Nissan containing 2 items. The first, is that they are expanding their Customer Satisfaction Program to cover the CVT on the Rogue to 10 years/ 120,000 miles. More info can be found at http://www.NissanAssist.com. The second page of the letter states that they are initiating a "Voluntary Service Campaign on 2008 to 2009 Nissan Rogues"

From the letter:

"REASON FOR THE SERVICE CAMPAIGNNissan is conducting a Voluntary Service Campaign on certain 2008 to 2009 Nissan Rogues to reduce a subtle rattling noise that may come from the transmission at low speeds. On a small number of vehicles, possibly including yours, the transmission may make this noise. This noise does not affect the performance or safety of your vehicle.

WHAT NISSAN WILL DOTo address this issue, your Nissan dealer will reprogram the Transmission Control Module and the Engine Control Module on your vehicle, free of charge for parts and labor.

WHAT YOU SHOULD DOPlease contact your Nissan dealer to perform this service at your earliest convenience. To ensure the least inconvenience for you, it is important to schedule an appointment before bringing your vehicle to the dealer for service. Please bring this notice with you to your appointment. Instructions have also been sent to your Nissan Dealer."

[estrada_ed]

I didn't see any mention of this just yet, so I thought I'd post it here as a heads up. I just received a notification from Nissan containing 2 items. The first, is that they are expanding their Customer Satisfaction Program to cover the CVT on the Rogue to 10 years/ 120,000 miles. More info can be found at http://www.NissanAssist.com. The second page of the letter states that they are initiating a "Voluntary Service Campaign on 2008 to 2009 Nissan Rogues"

From the letter:

"REASON FOR THE SERVICE CAMPAIGNNissan is conducting a Voluntary Service Campaign on certain 2008 to 2009 Nissan Rogues to reduce a subtle rattling noise that may come from the transmission at low speeds. On a small number of vehicles, possibly including yours, the transmission may make this noise. This noise does not affect the performance or safety of your vehicle.

WHAT NISSAN WILL DOTo address this issue, your Nissan dealer will reprogram the Transmission Control Module and the Engine Control Module on your vehicle, free of charge for parts and labor.

WHAT YOU SHOULD DOPlease contact your Nissan dealer to perform this service at your earliest convenience. To ensure the least inconvenience for you, it is important to schedule an appointment before bringing your vehicle to the dealer for service. Please bring this notice with you to your appointment. Instructions have also been sent to your Nissan Dealer."

I got the same letter today Owner Notification P9249. I already have an appointment with the dealer tomorrow for another issue (oil comsumption), but will ask if they can do this reflashing also. Will report tomorrow, if they do it.

[philipa_240sx]

Yup, it's official.

Nissan has just released a technical service bulletin:

NTB09126 - CP 2008 - 2009 Rogue; Transmission Rattle Noise - Voluntary Service Campaign

Some model year 2008 and 2009 Rogue vehicles may have a rattle noise from the transmission at low speeds. Nissan is conducting this Voluntary Service Campaign to remedy this potential condition. This campaign will entail reprogramming the Transmission and Engine Control Modules (TCM and ECM) and, for 2008 models, checking the transmission fluid level at no charge for parts or labor. See this bulletin for further detail.

[Igg]

Hello All,

I have a 2010 AWD and I've noticed that there's a light vibration in the steering wheel between 1000 and 1500 RPM.

However, this is a drive by wire car so the vibration can be more serious down there at the transmission?

Is this something serious that I should have the dealer look at it immediately or be part of the transmission reprogrammed with the NTB09126 mentioned above?

[philipa_240sx]

Hello Igg,

The vibration you are experiencing is normal and is not an indications of problems with the CVT. The cause of the vibration is because 'high' gear is used whenever possible to save fuel, this combined with low speeds is producing the vibration you are feeling.

You can read more about this in the following thread:

zerothread/295532

[Igg]

Hello Igg,

The vibration you are experiencing is normal and is not an indications of problems with the CVT. The cause of the vibration is because 'high' gear is used whenever possible to save fuel, this combined with low speeds is producing the vibration you are feeling.

You can read more about this in the following thread:

zerothread/295532

I see thank you. I hope the CVT is not lugging the engine, like in a motorcycle, if you're in higher gear for low speed, it will lug the engine and causes vibration, contributing to the CVT failures we've seen reported here on the forum?

[mx6bfast]

Yup, it's official.

Nissan has just released a technical service bulletin:

Will Nissan send documentation, email, mail, etc to 08 & 09 owners or do we just have to know about it to find out?

[philipa_240sx]

Will Nissan send documentation, email, mail, etc to 08 & 09 owners or do we just have to know about it to find out?

As this is a 'voluntary' service campaign, Nissan may not mail out notices like they do for full blown recalls. In that case, Nissan will assume the work will be done on an as needed basis. ie. customer complaints, in conjunction with regular service visits, etc.

[kerrton]

Igg, this is a seperate issue and has been discussed extensively, bottom line is it is normal because of the high gear ratio at low speeds, so not to worry.

Phil and others, the way this reads, it seems like it's intended to be a reactive solution if the rattle problem presents itself, which doesn't seem logical to me and I'm always of the opinion that being proactive and preventing problems from occuring is far better than reacting to a problem after it occurs.

All of the Rogue CVT's are the same, so either they all have a problem or they don't. If they do have a problem, then everyone should get the TCM reflash to address the issue.

The problem is that the TSB doesn't specifiy if everybody should get this done or just owners who are having a problem. I think this is very poor, because not all owners are in touch with their vehicle, they just get in and drive and only bring it in if they hear a really loud noise - I'd bet the majority of owners are this way and that's ok, they expect the dealership/service shop to tell them what maintenance needs to be done and when. So if they do have the rattle problem, they could drive for months or years with the issue and not know it, because it is subtle when it first starts out.

But, I think that rattle indicates excessive wear on the CVT, so why not reprogram the TCM for all Rogue's and prevent the problem from occurring?

[kerrton]

Also, I wonder what impacts the reprogram will have on performance and efficiency?

Even though my new CVT (replaced about 1 year ago) has been performing flawlessly, I THINK I'd like to get the reprogram to avoid future problems, but only if I'm sure it won't cause other problems or side effects, and only if my service manager recommends it. I'm curious to see what they will recommend regarding this service.
Modified by kerrton at 8:46 AM 12/17/2009

[Goblin]

Wow! I can't believe this discussion continues. I orginally posted my concerns back in May 08 which started this venture. Anyhow, I agree with Kerrton in that this is not the way to handle this issue. It's almost as if Nissan still is not assuming responsibility and denying that there is a problem by not being proactive. Only those who complain are thrown a pacifier, a TCM patch?!? I'm not buying it. On a positive note; at least Nissan now conceeds there is a noise. That was a battle within itself in the begining. Good luck guys.

[Leo2005]

I can't beleive you still tracking the thread anyway....how do u like ur new truck?

[Goblin]

Yes, I still track this thread. I was a big Nissan fan until my troubles with the Rogue. Too bad Nissan had to lose me as a customer after owning 4 of their vehicles.

The truck is Awesome! I can't praise it enough and have not had a days trouble.
Modified by Goblin at 10:38 AM 12/17/2009

[Leo2005]

Glad to hear that your frustruation is gone. This truck is better anyway.

[mx6bfast]

So how will a TCM flash fix this? Is there something loose in the transmission, or what? Will it tell that part that is rattling to not move?

[kerrton]

In theory it'll eliminate the rattle because the problem is that the steel drive belt goes slack under certain conditions (slow speeds etc.). It goes slack because of the combination of the position of the pully's and possibly the throttle position, so a reflash would cause the pully's to hold a lower gear ratio which would keep the rpms a little higher, keep the steel belt tensioned properly and avoid the slack rattle condition.

I'm not an expert, but that's my basic interpretation of it, so if that is indeed the problem then a TCM and ECM reflash could be the solution. But that doesn't really explain why only some Rogue's experience the problem, and why only some require this fix. It seems to me that Nissan doesn't really know why only some experience the problem either, and the best they could come up with was a bandaid fix for the ones that do exhibit the problem. In my case, the original CVT had the problem, but my replacement is flawless and works great and nothing was done to TCM or ECM so that would imply faulty hardware to me. But remember that we do now have a 10 year warranty so the CVT shouldn't be a huge concern.

[estrada_ed]

Philipa:

I never complaint to the dealer about the rattle (may is very faint and it does not happen all the time), yet I got a letter included with the CVT warranty extension

I am going latter today and they will take care of the recall. I've driven abbout 250 miles the last 3 days, so I will be able to notice any difference from what it is now once is reflashed.

[kerrton]

Hey estrada_ed,

So when you asked them to perform the reprogram to address the CVT issue, did they ask you if you were having problems, or did they just agree to do the work regardless if you were having problems or not?

After you get your car back with the reprogrammed TCM and ECU, could you please report back to us the changes that you notice? I assume that the slight rattle noise will be gone, but also I'd be curious if you notice any other changes such as the rpms at low speeds, etc.. Thanks a lot.

(One thing that is strange is how Canadian owners don't get these letters i a timely fashion, whereas estrada_ed for example got is "reflash" letter almost immediately after the TSB came out..)
Modified by kerrton at 1:15 PM 12/17/2009

[estrada_ed]

I just got back from the dealer. They did the steering and the CVT recalls, but the TPMS nuts recall was not listed for my vehicle, even though it is a 2008 and I live in Michingan (road salt capital of the world, we have our own salt mines!)

However, I am pleased to announce that the CVT TCM/ECM programming was done and I am happy to report that it is the real deal!

I tested the vehicle in the nornal situations that will produce a rattle: parking lot driving around 20 MPH and slowing down at stoplights without pressing the brake pedal... and NO rattle.

I even feel that the CVT is working better at low speeds - 20 to 40 MPH. It also seems that the engine RPM's are holding higher around 1300 - 1400 RPM when you decelerate. And maybe that was the fix. You automotive geeks may be able to understand why it this change eliminates the rattle. So after all those replaced CVT's ( and replaced and replaced ), now we have the real fix!

Ed

[Sanders630]

Wife just dropped off the car to get our temporarily fixed door handle permanantly fixed, now that the part came in. And the dealer brought up the CVT TSB on his own and said that he would go ahead and fix that while it was in the shop. He saw that there was just the other two recalls done on it last week and was like "that's the most recalls I've seen on a car at a time."

[maverick_rogue]

I had all the three recalls done today. Actually I went for Steering Recall and TPMS recall and was surprised to see CVT Recall not knowing what it is ...But I am glad I did it.1> Lugging at 15~40 Miles /Hr speed issue has reduced significantly.... almost negligible now. There is subtle gear change kind of feeling at @ 20 MPH but thats it.Also noticed that the RPMs are a bit higher (by @ 200 RPMs) in that MPH range now.

2> Acceleration has improved significantly. Cars response to drivers inputs seems to have improved.

3> Engine Noise too has subsided a bit. I will double check on that tomorrow morning (in clod conditions) and will edit my response if that is not the case.

Overall, strongly recommend going for this CVT Noice Recall / reflashing. ..