Here is something written by Dave Matthews that I stumbled across on the internet. Let me know what you guys think. I think he needs to read the papers again.
"Dave Matthews Speaks Out About the War
I hope this letter finds you all well and that in these uncertain times you find moments to be joyful.
I want to speak my mind about this war with Iraq, or I will choke on my conscience.
What is the motivation? Regime change? Shouldn't that be up to the people of the region and the people of Iraq? The only real threat from Saddam Hussein is to his neighbors and none of them support a U.S. invasion. Is it to stabilize the Middle-East? Wouldn't it only do the opposite by causing further death and suffering in a country that has had more than its share?
Is it to weaken Al Qaeda? Saddam Hussein is a genocidal maniac but he is not Al Qaeda. He is certainly more visible though. Is he our target because he is easier to identify than the illusive terrorlst network? Surely it is more likely that an attack on Iraq would only strengthen Al Qaeda by feeding Anti-American sentiment. Putting out the fire with gasoline, so to speak. It is certainly not to liberate the people of Iraq who suffer under Hussein's rule, unless we call killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqis liberation.
Saddam Hussein is a barbaric murderous dictator. I wish the world were free of him. But the answer is not to bomb this great culture of Iraq out of existence to stop him. Why must the children of Iraq die by the thousands to stop a tyrant? It is not justice. And if we kill him what will we achieve? We will have taken the most unpopular leader in the Middle East and turned him into the greatest martyr radical Islam has ever had. The U.N. weapons inspectors must be allowed to do their job thoroughly and any military action should be internationally agreed upon. We must not allow our government to turn us into a rogue nation.
I fear that our true motivation is about oil and our own flailing economy; about the failure to destroy Al Qaeda and about revenge. It is criminal to put our servicemen and women in harm's way and to put the lives of so many civilians on the line for the misguided frustrations of the Bush administration.
Bottom line: this war is wrong and this war is un-American.
Peacefully submitted,Dave Matthews"
Celebrity loud mouths and human shields
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Mayhem_J30
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He echos my general feeling about the situation although I believe a firm military deterent is a great asset for promoting peace.Mayhem_J30 wrote:Here is something written by Dave Matthews that I stumbled across on the internet. Let me know what you guys think. I think he needs to read the papers again.
What is in the papers that might refute his take on things? Also, don't forget the Bush family has a huge personal stake in how events turn out in the middle east.
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MaineExport
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Dave Matthews likes to think of himself as being an influential spokesman for the masses. He does not speak for me... nor do I care to hear any rock musicians' views on war. That's right... even the Motor City Madman himself, terrible Ted Nuggent can shut his yap about politics. What the hell makes these arrogant pricks think that their opinion amounts to a paisley printed pile of tird? I like Ted's politics simply because I agree with him... but I still don't care to hear him any more than I want to hear Roger Waters spout off about politics.
"Hundred of thousands of innocent children" being killed... give me a freakin break.... obviously collateral dammage will occur and innocnt lives will be lost... but Dave seems to have inflted the numbers to match his ego. These people are literally helpless and have no ability to bring about a regimen change. The only reasons Iraq's neighbors fear a US invasion... is because they think they will get bombed by Iraq as a last ditch effort.
"But the answer is not to bomb this great culture of Iraq out of existence" The great culture of Iraq... first time I've heard that one. But anyway... that's not what we are planning on doing... we just want to bomb Sadam's regime out of existance. All I can say is.... shut up and sit down Dave... your music is almost as boring and pointless as your opinions.
"Bottom line: this war is wrong and this war is un-American"
no,Bottom line: Dave Matthews is wrong and Dave Matthews should stick to playng guitar and singing.... the only reason he was put on this planet.
EDITKripe sake Dave.... you're strting to sound like Don Henley... you're not growing a pony tail are you?
"Hundred of thousands of innocent children" being killed... give me a freakin break.... obviously collateral dammage will occur and innocnt lives will be lost... but Dave seems to have inflted the numbers to match his ego. These people are literally helpless and have no ability to bring about a regimen change. The only reasons Iraq's neighbors fear a US invasion... is because they think they will get bombed by Iraq as a last ditch effort.
"But the answer is not to bomb this great culture of Iraq out of existence" The great culture of Iraq... first time I've heard that one. But anyway... that's not what we are planning on doing... we just want to bomb Sadam's regime out of existance. All I can say is.... shut up and sit down Dave... your music is almost as boring and pointless as your opinions.
"Bottom line: this war is wrong and this war is un-American"
no,Bottom line: Dave Matthews is wrong and Dave Matthews should stick to playng guitar and singing.... the only reason he was put on this planet.
EDITKripe sake Dave.... you're strting to sound like Don Henley... you're not growing a pony tail are you?
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Mayhem_J30
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VimyJ wrote:He echos my general feeling about the situation although I believe a firm military deterent is a great asset for promoting peace.
What is in the papers that might refute his take on things? Also, don't forget the Bush family has a huge personal stake in how events turn out in the middle east.
I find two major problems with Dave Matthews opinion, although I do agree with him at points. I'm largely stanceless at this whole ordeal as there is too much info to keep up with at any given time (unless it's your full time job) for me to make an educated opinion. So I'll make it brief.
Dave Matthews says "But the answer is not to bomb this great culture of Iraq out of existence" - Who ever said we were going to destroy the entire country and it's culture
I think that's exactly what we're trying to avoid, especially with this human shield thing going on now.DM says, "I fear that our true motivation is about oil and our own flailing economy; about the failure to destroy Al Qaeda and about revenge. It is criminal to put our servicemen and women in harm's way and to put the lives of so many civilians on the line for the misguided frustrations of the Bush administration." - ummm...i thought we were doing this to prevent future terrorism and combat evil in the future and all that yada. Anyone else remeber 9/11??
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AZhitman
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Dammit Maine!! There you go, saying what I'd have said if only I had opposable thumbs and could type! 
I've said it before, I'll say it again: Who gives a Kentucky Fried Extra Crispy Rat's A$$ what that whiny-voiced nonsense-blathering geek says? Run for public office, you uneducated patchouli-reeking hippie - Then you can influence public policy!
I agree with Freak here: If those people (entertainers, musicians, athletes, actors, producers, etc.) were so damn smart, they'd have "normal" careers. But unfortunately, we as a nation think that fame automatically equals intellect and good judgement. NOT true.
I've said it before, I'll say it again: Who gives a Kentucky Fried Extra Crispy Rat's A$$ what that whiny-voiced nonsense-blathering geek says? Run for public office, you uneducated patchouli-reeking hippie - Then you can influence public policy!
I agree with Freak here: If those people (entertainers, musicians, athletes, actors, producers, etc.) were so damn smart, they'd have "normal" careers. But unfortunately, we as a nation think that fame automatically equals intellect and good judgement. NOT true.
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deesolballs
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I'll take the special with an extra biscuit and corn on the cob.AZhitman wrote: Kentucky Fried Extra Crispy Rat's A$$
Call me a fool but I trust that our leaders know a tad bit more than what the media feeds to you zombies. It is difficult for us to fall in behind a cause when we don't know what the hell is really going on. But I for one trust that we have sufficient checks and balance mechanisms in place to prevent one man (Pres. Bush or any other) from chasing a vendetta or personal agenda as is the accusation. You toilet seat political advisors make my rectum itch. You take 1% of the info, swallow it, crap it out and wonder why everyone can't see your pure genius. I'll tell you why...cause its covered in sh*t!!
I don't proclaim to agree with all the antics and I voice my opinion every now and again but for the most part I feel good knowing that our country is being run by relatively competent citizens. For those who think otherwise...get your soggy arses on the ballot and run for office.
This is a long thread by the way. Kill it dammit!!
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MaineExport
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Originally pondered aloud by Dees"]You take 1% of the info, swallow it, crap it out and wonder why everyone can't see your pure genius. I'll tell you why...cause its covered in sh*t!!
Thank you Deesolb's for so eloquently putting forth what none of us have been able to effectively say. Man, you really need to come around more often. But this thread needs to stay alive.... Hitman has resurrected it too many times to see it go now.
Thank you Deesolb's for so eloquently putting forth what none of us have been able to effectively say. Man, you really need to come around more often. But this thread needs to stay alive.... Hitman has resurrected it too many times to see it go now.
I would have to say that the one of the only reasons you haven't exactly met a unintelligent musicians is because much of their music is based on politcal opinions and politics in the world... they may do a little research or listen to what the media feeds them and then spit it back out to a beat and a chorus... past the shallow feelings and baseline, they are not incredibly brilliant people... Mozart was brilliant...
deesolballs wrote:I'll take the special with an extra biscuit and corn on the cob.
Call me a fool
OK, you're a fool.
but I trust that our leaders know a tad bit more than what the media feeds to you zombies. It is difficult for us to fall in behind a cause when we don't know what the hell is really going on.
Bingo. If you take away the media, then you only have W's word to go on.
You toilet seat political advisors make my rectum itch. You take 1% of the info, swallow it, crap it out and wonder why everyone can't see your pure genius. I'll tell you why...cause its covered in sh*t!!
Your toilet paper bill must be twice as high as most because you seem to have two functioning rectums.
I don't proclaim to agree with all the antics and I voice my opinion every now and again but for the most part I feel good knowing that our country is being run by relatively competent citizens.
Now remember who you are alluding to: A silver spooned, pretend good ole boy, who got busted for DUI, went AWOL from his guard unit and failed in every venture his daddy staked him to in the family business (oil). It hardly builds confidence when W says he wants to go after Saddam "because he tried to kill my dad."
FrEaK wrote:I would have to say that the one of the only reasons you haven't exactly met a unintelligent musicians is because much of their music is based on politcal opinions and politics in the world... they may do a little research or listen to what the media feeds them and then spit it back out to a beat and a chorus... past the shallow feelings and baseline, they are not incredibly brilliant people... Mozart was brilliant...
Far from it. Many musicains have crazy or shall I say alternative viewpoints. I suppose it depends upon what you think musicians are. If you think that a musicians are only "pop stars" then in keeping with the pop culture we live in then you would be right. However, I have associated with musicians my whole adult life. Classical musicians, jazz musicians, rock musicians, session players etc. etc, etc. The one common denominator among them all is that they generally have greater preception levels than the general public. Most "working" musicians have advanced degrees and years of study and experience which, while it doesn't mean a hill of beans in a political debate, does indicate that their inteligence level is above normal (except for me). Hey, if it were easy, everyone would do it. (That's why they invented Rap)
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MaineExport
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VimyJ wrote:Far from it. Many musicains have crazy or shall I say alternative viewpoints. I suppose it depends upon what you think musicians are. If you think that a musicians are only "pop stars" then in keeping with the pop culture we live in then you would be right. However, I have associated with musicians my whole adult life. Classical musicians, jazz musicians, rock musicians, session players etc. etc, etc. The one common denominator among them all is that they generally have greater preception levels than the general public. Most "working" musicians have advanced degrees and years of study and experience which, while it doesn't mean a hill of beans in a political debate, does indicate that their inteligence level is above normal (except for me). Hey, if it were easy, everyone would do it. (That's why they invented Rap)
My father is a brilliant musician. He has his bachelors in Music Education and Masters in Conducting and education. He is the Director of Fine Arts for the Rutland City School System in Vermont, and an adjunct professor at Castleton State. His resume is miles long in regard to his artistic/musical endeavors… and I won’t bore you or myself with details. The point being… he is a very strict conservative (yes I know… apple not falling far from tree), and his opinions I respect as a musician or otherwise.
But I didn’t say that musicians are dumb or dim-witted. My point is that I don’t care what the political affiliations or opinions are of a popular musician. Dave Matthews’ opinion means less to me than yours, Vimy. Why, because I can interact with you… and you don’t present your opinion under the false pretense that is more important than anyone else’s, simply based on your social standing or success as a “PERFORMER”. Some musicians are brilliant; others are just people who got a lucky break. I promise you… the musicians represented in the top 40 are not the most talented musicians in the world. Music isn’t like sports… where the BEST always make it big. The best musicians in the world… the most intelligent ones generally don’t make a very successful career out of it. At least not to the point where they become a household name and people seem to think the musician’s opinions are worth more than their own. Popular musicians are not representative of the best and brightest… end of story.
By the way… did everyone know that Dave grew up in South Africa as a white man during apartheid… interesting.
Don't get me started on the corporate pop music world. I hate to be the first to say it but the emperor has no clothes. The general public has no idea the schock they're being pedalled. Whitney Houston couldn't carry Yoyo Ma's jock strap in the musical talent department and is only (maybe) slightly more talented than your average decent wedding band singer. But, get the right marketing and real talent behind them and off they go to the supposed "big time". Celine Dion is probably the worst musician in her entourage. Yes, folks, it's true. Rap? It's not music. It's something for people without dedication or talent to make a buck off stupid (maybe I should say unworldly adolescents) teenagers.maineimport wrote: Some musicians are brilliant; others are just people who got a lucky break. I promise you… the musicians represented in the top 40 are not the most talented musicians in the world. Music isn’t like sports… where the BEST always make it big. The best musicians in the world… the most intelligent ones generally don’t make a very successful career out of it. At least not to the point where they become a household name and people seem to think the musician’s opinions are worth more than their own. Popular musicians are not representative of the best and brightest… end of story.
It is my experiences in show biz that also contribute to my sceptical view of W's intentions. There is a lot that goes on behind the scenes with the real talent than is apparent from the audience's perspective. W is a figure head who is mouthing the words and policies of the people who want to rake in the cash and damn the consequences. The overall standard of living in the US is going to take a big hit under the current administration in the coming years. Well heeled country clubs should do all right, though. :rolleyes
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Mayhem_J30
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So let me get this straight, people are risking their life and doing this: http://www.washingtonpost.com/....html
To protect people that do this: http://abcnews.go.com/sections....html
give me a friggin break tree huggers. Sorry, i haven't had my coffee yet.
To protect people that do this: http://abcnews.go.com/sections....html
give me a friggin break tree huggers. Sorry, i haven't had my coffee yet.
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AZhitman
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Nailed it, Chris. Thanks for that.
BTW - There's one way to tell that modern popular musicians/performers/etc aren't necessarily that talented: Ever notice - They're all "above average" as far as appearance. I mean, come on! Do we seriously believe that Shania/Britney/Christina can actually SING? No way - They're hot, and that's what sells. Think back to the pre-TV days. Didn't matter WHAT you looked like, if you had the pipes, you became a star. Now you have to be attractive first, THEN have "presence" and a gimmick, and PRESTO! You're a BackstreetBoy. Vimy said it best, with the "quick buck" comment. One hit song can set you for life if you're smart.
BTW - There's one way to tell that modern popular musicians/performers/etc aren't necessarily that talented: Ever notice - They're all "above average" as far as appearance. I mean, come on! Do we seriously believe that Shania/Britney/Christina can actually SING? No way - They're hot, and that's what sells. Think back to the pre-TV days. Didn't matter WHAT you looked like, if you had the pipes, you became a star. Now you have to be attractive first, THEN have "presence" and a gimmick, and PRESTO! You're a BackstreetBoy. Vimy said it best, with the "quick buck" comment. One hit song can set you for life if you're smart.
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deesolballs
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VimyJ wrote:Don't get me started on the corporate pop music world. I hate to be the first to say it but the emperor has no clothes. The general public has no idea the schock they're being pedalled. Whitney Houston couldn't carry Yoyo Ma's jock strap in the musical talent department and is only (maybe) slightly more talented than your average decent wedding band singer. But, get the right marketing and real talent behind them and off they go to the supposed "big time". Celine Dion is probably the worst musician in her entourage. Yes, folks, it's true. Rap? It's not music. It's something for people without dedication or talent to make a buck off stupid (maybe I should say unworldly adolescents) teenagers.
It is my experiences in show biz that also contribute to my sceptical view of W's intentions. There is a lot that goes on behind the scenes with the real talent than is apparent from the audience's perspective. W is a figure head who is mouthing the words and policies of the people who want to rake in the cash and damn the consequences. The overall standard of living in the US is going to take a big hit under the current administration in the coming years. Well heeled country clubs should do all right, though. :rolleyes
:Werd To the above and all other post ...You are the most pessimistic sumab.tch ever!! SUVs ruin the world and the economy, Pres. Bush is willing to kill thousands so we can pay .20 less /gallon for gas, Pres. Bush is the figure-head for a government full of pillaging and plundering demons, today’s pop artists are glorified talent-less Milli Vanillas , the general public consists of lemmings being blown in the wind by the media. :bsface
The problem with a dingleberry that knows everything is that he thinks everyone else knows nothing. This is never the case.
I think Vimy was molested by a rap singing, SUV driving republican as a youth.
Was it the Rappin' Duke? Was it Vimy??
"So you think you're bad, with your rapWell I'll tell ya pilgrim Vimy talks pure crapWhen you were in diapers and sucking your thumbVim was at the Ponderosa taking it up the bumDa haahh, da haahhDa ha-hahh ha-hahh haahh"
You go on a rant about Pres. Bush coming from money, driving drunk, going AWOL and being a bad business man (I’m sure there is more that hasn’t been dug up yet). You must dislike him. Then you go on to say that Bush is a figure-head doing the biddings of other evil money grubbing officials. You must dislike them, too. So which do you hate…Bush, everybody else or everybody period??
Vimy for President…all the problems…none of the solutions!!
Paid for by the PITABReaD foundation.“PITABReaD” ... Poked In The Arse By Rappin’ Duke
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deesolballs
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AZhitman wrote:Nailed it, Chris. Thanks for that.
BTW - There's one way to tell that modern popular musicians/performers/etc aren't necessarily that talented: Ever notice - They're all "above average" as far as appearance. I mean, come on! Do we seriously believe that Shania/Britney/Christina can actually SING? No way - They're hot, and that's what sells. Think back to the pre-TV days. Didn't matter WHAT you looked like, if you had the pipes, you became a star. Now you have to be attractive first, THEN have "presence" and a gimmick, and PRESTO! You're a BackstreetBoy. Vimy said it best, with the "quick buck" comment. One hit song can set you for life if you're smart.
Hitman...good point. But everyone is happy. The producer gets paid, the one hit wonder gets paid and I get to do the running man and the tootsie roll. You are right in that Aretha Franklin and Al Green would have a hard time starting in todays industry but there is still talent out there. Boyz II Men are four hideous looking rascals but talent abounds. Ericak Baduh looks like a caterpillar but the b.tch can sing and scat. Brian McKnight composes, plays the piano and the guitar and writes his and other artists music. The basturd looks like a chewed tootsie roll but when he puts his thing down panties fly. Sure there a some fabricated hacks out there but those who care know the difference. Those who don't care go out and buy the crap and smile. No harm done. Just like buying a J30....
deesolballs wrote:Hitman...good point. But everyone is happy. The producer gets paid, the one hit wonder gets paid and I get to do the running man and the tootsie roll. You are right in that Aretha Franklin and Al Green would have a hard time starting in todays industry but there is still talent out there. Boyz II Men are four hideous looking rascals but talent abounds. Ericak Baduh looks like a caterpillar but the b.tch can sing and scat. Brian McKnight composes, plays the piano and the guitar and writes his and other artists music. The basturd looks like a chewed tootsie roll but when he puts his thing down panties fly. Sure there a some fabricated hacks out there but those who care know the difference. Those who don't care go out and buy the crap and smile. No harm done. Just like buying a J30....
Yea, Rita McNeil is still pretty famous, and she looks like the female equivelant of the Pillsbury DoughBoy.......
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Great posts guys!
I agree with most of the points you guys made, Maine, Hitman, Deez.
As for entertainers! phooey! When they go about releasing statements about what they think about political issues i can only construe it as they want attention/ improve their image for their fans.
(BTW, I really hate DMB, whenever i hear one of those songs on the radio at work i want to break stuff, and scream obscenities... yeah! and don't get me started about Celine Dion, she makes me want to punch people! whoo! yeah! I can't believe people actually buy this crap!)
As for entertainers! phooey! When they go about releasing statements about what they think about political issues i can only construe it as they want attention/ improve their image for their fans.
(BTW, I really hate DMB, whenever i hear one of those songs on the radio at work i want to break stuff, and scream obscenities... yeah! and don't get me started about Celine Dion, she makes me want to punch people! whoo! yeah! I can't believe people actually buy this crap!)