Celebrity loud mouths and human shields
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MaineExport
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Yeah, Sean Penn really doesn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to moral high-ground. Perhaps that is why it doesn't surprise me that he is, in essence, taking sides with Iraq.89sxRCR wrote:you want celebrity guidance, just look at how often they get divorced and screw up (rehab).....
Freak... I am not trying to turn any of this into Canada hating. You guys are cool a hell... as long as you stay up there.... unless you're bringing beer.
Deesolb's... the boots are getting cleaned as we speak... (night out at the clubs and away from the computer can do wonders for one's demeanor!):D
Hitman... anytime bro!
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Bubba1
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Geez, I'm gone a few days and this thread is still kicking.
Hitman: I'll respond with just one of the examples I brought up. Reagan's supply-side deficit spending mantra sounded great and patriotic but in reality it did not work. Unfortuantely the Democratic Congress at that time was also simple-minded, short sighted and also should shoulder some blame, but this was a big part of the "Reagan revolution". When you purchase something huge on your credit card, you know you have to pay it back someday with interest. or there are consequences. (bankruptcy, repossession, ruining your credit rating, saddling your heirs with debt ) Reagan's agenda did just that but on an enormous scale. His persuasive abilitiies got it moved along. George Sr. continued it despite labelling it "voo-doo economics when he campaigned against him in the primaries". Only during Clinton's era, with a Republican Congress to check/balance him, did our government actually produce a balanced budget that even ran a surplus a few times. I don't think Clinton was a good president, but at least he understood that deficit spending doesn't work. You cant spend more than you take in. Simple as that. Dubya, our current fearless leader, is suggesting to make the same budgetary blunder as Reagan. With $6,000,000,000,000 (that's TRILLION) of debt, this country needs to pay that princepal down eventually or we're going to screw our children with that debt and more interest. Some legacy. You can't just print money to make that debt go away. That devalues our dollar globally. You also can't walk away from that debt. That creates other problems.
Perostroika was an important acheivement, No argument there. And Reagan should absolutely get credit for that. But his simplistic attitude on many domestic policies are causing problems even today. That's why I wouldn't call him the greatest president of the century. He wasn't the worst, but I don't think he was the best either.
Dees for President. Ok I'm ready to get flamed...
Hitman: I'll respond with just one of the examples I brought up. Reagan's supply-side deficit spending mantra sounded great and patriotic but in reality it did not work. Unfortuantely the Democratic Congress at that time was also simple-minded, short sighted and also should shoulder some blame, but this was a big part of the "Reagan revolution". When you purchase something huge on your credit card, you know you have to pay it back someday with interest. or there are consequences. (bankruptcy, repossession, ruining your credit rating, saddling your heirs with debt ) Reagan's agenda did just that but on an enormous scale. His persuasive abilitiies got it moved along. George Sr. continued it despite labelling it "voo-doo economics when he campaigned against him in the primaries". Only during Clinton's era, with a Republican Congress to check/balance him, did our government actually produce a balanced budget that even ran a surplus a few times. I don't think Clinton was a good president, but at least he understood that deficit spending doesn't work. You cant spend more than you take in. Simple as that. Dubya, our current fearless leader, is suggesting to make the same budgetary blunder as Reagan. With $6,000,000,000,000 (that's TRILLION) of debt, this country needs to pay that princepal down eventually or we're going to screw our children with that debt and more interest. Some legacy. You can't just print money to make that debt go away. That devalues our dollar globally. You also can't walk away from that debt. That creates other problems.
Perostroika was an important acheivement, No argument there. And Reagan should absolutely get credit for that. But his simplistic attitude on many domestic policies are causing problems even today. That's why I wouldn't call him the greatest president of the century. He wasn't the worst, but I don't think he was the best either.
Dees for President. Ok I'm ready to get flamed...
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Bubba1
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Oh I see a few typos. Sorry, and I know there were other presidents that have sent balanced budgets thru Congress in the 20th century besides Clinton. And yes, we actually went from a government operating with a surplus to one with a small deficit under Nixon. But Ronnie managed to explode the deficit like a "nucular" bomb (quoting Dubya) by convincing Congress to cut taxes AND increase spending. Sure it might stimulate the economy briefly, and I'm all for lower taxes. But as tax payers, we will still have to pay it back since the government spending has never slowed down. I suppose that will be the next administration's or congress' problem or our children's problem. I hope I make sense. But dammit Dees, get on the ballot our country needs you.
maineimport wrote:Amen, Hitman! DMB would be a great band were it not for DM. Their drummer is darn amazing... I am a drummer myself and eveytime I hear him play I get all fired up... he's just soooo precise and technically proficient.... then Dave opens his maw and I am quickly reminded why I hate Dave Matthews Band.
BUH! If you want to hear a good drummer PLEASE download any song from the band Dillinger Escape Plan (http://www.dillingerescapeplan.com). I'm positive you old fogies will hate the music (specifically vocals), but you will cream your pants when you hear the drumming and guitar. Talk about precision, DMB has NOTHING on them.
Quote »[You cant spend more than you take in. Simple as that. Dubya, our current fearless leader, is suggesting to make the same budgetary blunder as Reagan. With $6,000,000,000,000 (that's TRILLION) [/quote]im sure that all that debt accumulated suddenly over night when the elections were over and bush won...:p Quote »When you purchase something huge on your credit card, you know you have to pay it back someday with interest. or there are consequences[/quote] just wondering, whos gonna try to collect on the US?
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Bubba1
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89SX, who's going to loan you money ever again if you DON"T pay your bills? What do you think a lender is going to do when a large customer stiffs them. They don't say "gosh, this is the USA who's stiffing us, of course we should allow that. No, they're going to recoup their money elsewhere, which means interest rates would SKYROCKET, which will essentially kill the economy. And if a lender were still crazy enough to loan money again to a complete stiff like you're suggesting the US government become, what interest rate do you think the lenders would charge? A whole lot more than they're chargin now. This is real money, not monopoly money. Have you ever wondered why that 6 trillion dollar debt has NOT been simply erased yet? Because it would be a financial disaster for this country if we walked away from it.
The national debt been growing at an accelerating rate since our revered Ronnie was took office. He saw the way to win every election was to give American voters exactly want they wanted to hear: lower taxes, a jump-started economy and at the same time, increased military spending. Admirable sounding and popular, but difficult to deliver as one piece of this agenda works against the other, Ronnie accomplished by simply proposing to max out the nation's credit card. That's all he did. Very simple, but too simple. As a country in a recession. we loved the sound bytes and bought it hook, line and sinker. But from individuals to corprations to giant governments, the laws of economics apply to all. But to a politician, that time to pay back debt can occur after he/she leaves office, thereby dumping it on the next generation to pay for it while he/she rests with a cushy government paid pension. It needs to change and we all have the ability to change it by voting out the morons who are making it worse, and electing people who will do the right thing. Dubya's following Reagans lead by proposing to increase the deficit even more. Is it any surprise he bankrupted every company he ran? You can't spend more than you take in. He obviously hasn't learned that yet. Ok, I'll stop the politic/economics 101 lecture and take my lumps. Flame away.
The national debt been growing at an accelerating rate since our revered Ronnie was took office. He saw the way to win every election was to give American voters exactly want they wanted to hear: lower taxes, a jump-started economy and at the same time, increased military spending. Admirable sounding and popular, but difficult to deliver as one piece of this agenda works against the other, Ronnie accomplished by simply proposing to max out the nation's credit card. That's all he did. Very simple, but too simple. As a country in a recession. we loved the sound bytes and bought it hook, line and sinker. But from individuals to corprations to giant governments, the laws of economics apply to all. But to a politician, that time to pay back debt can occur after he/she leaves office, thereby dumping it on the next generation to pay for it while he/she rests with a cushy government paid pension. It needs to change and we all have the ability to change it by voting out the morons who are making it worse, and electing people who will do the right thing. Dubya's following Reagans lead by proposing to increase the deficit even more. Is it any surprise he bankrupted every company he ran? You can't spend more than you take in. He obviously hasn't learned that yet. Ok, I'll stop the politic/economics 101 lecture and take my lumps. Flame away.
just to give u a little real world example, France owed us MILLIONS yet they gave us a statue and we called it even. 
And you blame dubya for a lot of this... what did the democrat clinton do to erase this 6 trillion dollar debt? I agree to pay the debt...eventually. but right now that wouldnt be the best thing for our economy.
And you blame dubya for a lot of this... what did the democrat clinton do to erase this 6 trillion dollar debt? I agree to pay the debt...eventually. but right now that wouldnt be the best thing for our economy.-
Bubba1
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I agree with you. I'm not blaming Dubya for everything. My original ranting was about someone calling Reagan the greatest pres of the century - he wasn't. I added Dubya as an example of Reagan's legacy still being felt today. Dubya's making the same dumb decisions as Reagan did on domestic policy.
Clinton couldn't erase the Trillions of debt either (can't be done) BUT, what he did do was submit a balanced budget to Congress, which is something the last few Republican Presidents did not do. Unfortunately the Congress spent the surplus money from Clinton's budget on things other than the national debt. This 6 trillion dollar debt is another reason to take a long second look at starting a war with Iraq. Unless Dubya and Colin Powell can convince more countries to agree with us on Iraq (to the point of sharing in the cost), we should consider delay because our country can't afford this war economically. We're already spending a fortune chasing Osama. War will not jump start the economy like it once did. Different era. We're not a country made up of just defense contractors. I think Powell and Bush made a convincing case to the American people including me, but there are a lot of countries not yet endorsing war. That's a big risk to go ahead with a "pre-emptive " war without international support. George Sr. had international support for his action in Kuwait, Dubya does not...yet. He needs to be a little more patient IMO.
Clinton couldn't erase the Trillions of debt either (can't be done) BUT, what he did do was submit a balanced budget to Congress, which is something the last few Republican Presidents did not do. Unfortunately the Congress spent the surplus money from Clinton's budget on things other than the national debt. This 6 trillion dollar debt is another reason to take a long second look at starting a war with Iraq. Unless Dubya and Colin Powell can convince more countries to agree with us on Iraq (to the point of sharing in the cost), we should consider delay because our country can't afford this war economically. We're already spending a fortune chasing Osama. War will not jump start the economy like it once did. Different era. We're not a country made up of just defense contractors. I think Powell and Bush made a convincing case to the American people including me, but there are a lot of countries not yet endorsing war. That's a big risk to go ahead with a "pre-emptive " war without international support. George Sr. had international support for his action in Kuwait, Dubya does not...yet. He needs to be a little more patient IMO.
What does Dubya care?
He'll be booted out of office soon enough, and when it happens he'll go back to his rich family and retire...
He doesn't care about the debt, he's rather be known as the Knight on his steed, charging the evil empire of Saddam...
Money is the last thing on his mind... he wants to be famous forever....
He'll be booted out of office soon enough, and when it happens he'll go back to his rich family and retire...
He doesn't care about the debt, he's rather be known as the Knight on his steed, charging the evil empire of Saddam...
Money is the last thing on his mind... he wants to be famous forever....
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MaineExport
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This is just disturbing.
Reagan's economic policy and posturing is what won the cold war. One of his tactics was to dump loads of money into military spending. He knew that the Russians would need to spend eqaully as much (or more) to try and save face and keep up. Their economy could not support the spending like ours could, and the lifestyle of the russian people suffered as well as their economy. It devistated their government and it crumbled due to the pressure. This was a key factor in winning the cold war.
Like the debt or not, it is why we are all still here today, and we are far better off now because of it. Our economy will not suffer because of a well planned and exicuted military action against Iraq. Your are ignorant to believe that the only industries fueled during a war are defense contractors. Historically, many more aspects of the economy are stimulated beyond military spending.
It's funny... you say this war is about money, greed, and oil... yet turn around and say it will bankrupt us... so which is it?
Reagan's economic policy and posturing is what won the cold war. One of his tactics was to dump loads of money into military spending. He knew that the Russians would need to spend eqaully as much (or more) to try and save face and keep up. Their economy could not support the spending like ours could, and the lifestyle of the russian people suffered as well as their economy. It devistated their government and it crumbled due to the pressure. This was a key factor in winning the cold war.
Like the debt or not, it is why we are all still here today, and we are far better off now because of it. Our economy will not suffer because of a well planned and exicuted military action against Iraq. Your are ignorant to believe that the only industries fueled during a war are defense contractors. Historically, many more aspects of the economy are stimulated beyond military spending.
It's funny... you say this war is about money, greed, and oil... yet turn around and say it will bankrupt us... so which is it?
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Bubba1
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Hitman, you are 'da man. Maine: Reagan spent a whole lot of BORROWED money on the military. I understood his motives way back when when he first proposed increasing military spending. I don't have an issue with his motive, nor that he borrowed the money. My issue is that debt he ran up has NOT been paid back or seriously addressed by him OR any other president since (with one horny exception). And we're going to dump an even bigger debt burden on our kids or on ourselves when that financial time bomb finally goes off. Debt is a very BAD thing if you DON"T PAY IT BACK. It doesn't go away, it just gets BIGGER. Geez, Didn't you ever take a course in economics or accounting?
And where did I claim iraq was about money, greed and oil?Better re-read my posts. Do you really think our economy is going to thrive by bankrolling two simultaneous wars on credit when we're already up to our arse in debt? This ain't WWII. I suspect we'll face a deeper recession if the US goes thru with Iraq alone. I hope I'm wrong. But this could be a very ugly, war if we do it alone.
And where did I claim iraq was about money, greed and oil?Better re-read my posts. Do you really think our economy is going to thrive by bankrolling two simultaneous wars on credit when we're already up to our arse in debt? This ain't WWII. I suspect we'll face a deeper recession if the US goes thru with Iraq alone. I hope I'm wrong. But this could be a very ugly, war if we do it alone.
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MaineExport
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Originally posted by Bubba1 "] Geez, Didn't you ever take a course in economics or accounting?
Hahaha.... actually yes, I'm a 3rd year accounting/business mngmt double major. I'm reasonably familiar with economic theory in fact, but that's beside the point. Thanks for asking.
And where did I claim iraq was about money, greed and oil?
And where did I claim that YOU did?
Better re-read my posts.
Perhaps you should re-read mine, I don't recall mentioning any names.... just making observations and generalized statements.
Do you really think our economy is going to thrive by bankrolling two simultaneous wars on credit when we're already up to our arse in debt?
In the long run.... YES.... at least more so than if we do nothing.
Hahaha.... actually yes, I'm a 3rd year accounting/business mngmt double major. I'm reasonably familiar with economic theory in fact, but that's beside the point. Thanks for asking.
And where did I claim iraq was about money, greed and oil?
And where did I claim that YOU did?
Better re-read my posts.
Perhaps you should re-read mine, I don't recall mentioning any names.... just making observations and generalized statements.
Do you really think our economy is going to thrive by bankrolling two simultaneous wars on credit when we're already up to our arse in debt?
In the long run.... YES.... at least more so than if we do nothing.
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Bubba1
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1. Well, if you covered macroeconomics, you would have quickly learned out that Reagan's supply side economic policies do not work. George Sr. correctly labelled it voo-doo economics when he unsuccessfully ran against Ronnie in the republican primaries, but later changed his tune when he joined Ronnie's ticket as Veep. George realized that the truth would not get him elected. And that's what politicians do. They do not do what's right, they do what's necessary to get elected and re-elected. Ronnie Reagan was no saint. He was a pure politician.
2. Read the last sentence of your 2/18 6:59 pm post:"It's funny. you say this war is about money, greed, and oil...yet turn around and say it will bankrupt us... so which is it?" Since you were responding to me, I assumed when you used the word "you", it was directed at me. If you meant a whole group of people, you didn't make that clear.
3. I hope you're right about it being in the best long term interest. It appears I have a more pragmatic view of economics and politics than you. Of course I'm older. That's what's great about this country. Free speech.
Good luck in Biz school. After you graduate, then the real education begins, my young Padwan. Enjoy
2. Read the last sentence of your 2/18 6:59 pm post:"It's funny. you say this war is about money, greed, and oil...yet turn around and say it will bankrupt us... so which is it?" Since you were responding to me, I assumed when you used the word "you", it was directed at me. If you meant a whole group of people, you didn't make that clear.
3. I hope you're right about it being in the best long term interest. It appears I have a more pragmatic view of economics and politics than you. Of course I'm older. That's what's great about this country. Free speech.
Good luck in Biz school. After you graduate, then the real education begins, my young Padwan. Enjoy
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MaineExport
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bubba1 "]1. Well, if you covered macroeconomics, you would have quickly learned out that Reagan's supply side economic policies do not work.
Huh, covered it... and guess what... if given a chance to work it could. But, it is likely that we will never know... as our political system desn't allow for it. It's not perfect... but holds more promise than the socialist style of economics, which was proven by the cold war.
And that's what politicians do. They do not do what's right, they do what's necessary to get elected and re-elected.
Thank you.... is there anyone here who didn't alreay know that?
Since you were responding to me, I assumed when you used the word "you", it was directed at me. If you meant a whole group of people, you didn't make that clear.
Oh... that's where you were wrong... I wasn't responding to you... I was making observations and generalized statements.
It appears I have a more pragmatic view of economics and politics than you.
Pragmatic.... if you say so. :rolleyes
Of course I'm older. Good luck in Biz school. After you graduate, then the real education begins, my young Padwan. Enjoy
Ummm.. I didn't bother to look up your birthday (assuming you provided it in your bio), but age has little to do with it. I'm 26 and I've had plenty of 'real education' along the way... perhaps you should be a little less presumptuous... it seems to have misdirected you several times in the last few posts.
Huh, covered it... and guess what... if given a chance to work it could. But, it is likely that we will never know... as our political system desn't allow for it. It's not perfect... but holds more promise than the socialist style of economics, which was proven by the cold war.
And that's what politicians do. They do not do what's right, they do what's necessary to get elected and re-elected.
Thank you.... is there anyone here who didn't alreay know that?
Since you were responding to me, I assumed when you used the word "you", it was directed at me. If you meant a whole group of people, you didn't make that clear.
Oh... that's where you were wrong... I wasn't responding to you... I was making observations and generalized statements.
It appears I have a more pragmatic view of economics and politics than you.
Pragmatic.... if you say so. :rolleyes
Of course I'm older. Good luck in Biz school. After you graduate, then the real education begins, my young Padwan. Enjoy
Ummm.. I didn't bother to look up your birthday (assuming you provided it in your bio), but age has little to do with it. I'm 26 and I've had plenty of 'real education' along the way... perhaps you should be a little less presumptuous... it seems to have misdirected you several times in the last few posts.
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Bubba1
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You said "If given a chance it'll work, but with our political system it doesn't work". Very good, kid. Reaganomics could be the greatest frigging thing ever since sliced bread, but if does not work within our political system, it still means IT DOES NOT WORK, which is what I've been saying. No economic policy will work unless there's old fashioned unpopular fiscal responsibility. I suppose you'll cover that next semester. My posts are not misdirected at all. If anyone other than "you" (that's personally, not in general) disagrees with what I wrote, please say so.
I know getting the last word is important to you, so go ahead and dissect my post line by line and word by word. But I do wish you good luck with school.
I know getting the last word is important to you, so go ahead and dissect my post line by line and word by word. But I do wish you good luck with school.
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MaineExport
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Hey thanks Bubba... but no need to be condescending. Interesting tactic... but who does it make the fool?
Kid... I wear that title with great pride. You are proof that age doesn't matter... no offense. (... you didn't mention how old you are)
By the way... I don't need the last word to know when I'm right. But this discussion isn't about right or wrong... it is opinion vs. opinion... and an exercise in futility. You are making this a personal thing... and I don't wish to play that game. We don't know each other well enough to do that. I apologize if you feel that my challenging your opinion was a personal attack. We have differing oinions about politics and economics... apparently you feel your opinion is more valid based upon your age... well, I too wish you well in your endeavors.
Kid... I wear that title with great pride. You are proof that age doesn't matter... no offense. (... you didn't mention how old you are)
By the way... I don't need the last word to know when I'm right. But this discussion isn't about right or wrong... it is opinion vs. opinion... and an exercise in futility. You are making this a personal thing... and I don't wish to play that game. We don't know each other well enough to do that. I apologize if you feel that my challenging your opinion was a personal attack. We have differing oinions about politics and economics... apparently you feel your opinion is more valid based upon your age... well, I too wish you well in your endeavors.
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MaineExport
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Bubba1 wrote:You said "If given a chance it'll work, but with our political system it doesn't work".
And please don't misquote me again. That is NOT what I said at all. I said it is not likely to work... meaning it will not be given a chance under our two party system. Another problem with politicians not doing what is in the best interest of the people... neither party wants to give credence to the others theory... so the proper support and consideration is not likely to be given to ANY economic plan. But... this could also be a fortunate attribute to our political system... it acts as a system of checks and balances. Someday it will all work out... until then we will have to keep sending these guys to office. You won't like my guys and I won't like yours. .
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MaineExport
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:Werd
Finish law school.... it's never too late Hitman!!!
I took 6 years off between my first attempt at college and my recent success in school. It's funny how a few miles of 'real-life' will compel even the most reluctant to grow up and get his tail in gear! Going from getting kicked out of a school... to Dean's list and a 3.96 at the next (yeah... I'll brag a little;) ) is entirely attributable to time off to grow the hell up.
Had to work the DEMONS out of my system!!!!
Finish law school.... it's never too late Hitman!!!
I took 6 years off between my first attempt at college and my recent success in school. It's funny how a few miles of 'real-life' will compel even the most reluctant to grow up and get his tail in gear! Going from getting kicked out of a school... to Dean's list and a 3.96 at the next (yeah... I'll brag a little;) ) is entirely attributable to time off to grow the hell up.
Had to work the DEMONS out of my system!!!!