building a KA-T (WHAT MOTOR WILL HE CHOOSE NEXT?!)

Your premier source for information on the Turbo KA: KA24E-T and KA24DE-T (KA with aftermarket turbo kit)!
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motoman399
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Razi wrote:Your e-mail, in your profile, he e-mailed it.Since it's @hotmail.com, I'm guessing you'd log in at hotmail.com?
lol yes that is exactly it. But never mind I wanted to buy that baby turbo off of you but I got one about the same size for free. Oh and I emailed the address in your profile...
93 Chuki FB wrote:but yeah like i said earlier, is there a way i can run the return line into the valve cover?
I think you can use a scavenge pump but it's not usually done like that unless you have to. Like people do t do it for fun lol. Just don't be lazy and run it to your oil pan.


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WDRacing
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The oil drains from the turbo by gravity only. The oil line has to go from the turbo to the pan or the oil WILL NOT drain. This causes tons of problems since oil will leak past all the seals and enter the compressor and exhaust side.

The only way is to remove the pan and weld on a return bung. This is probably the biggest obstacle for most to tackle since it requires removal of the pan, drilling of the hole and welding of the bung. Dropping the pan sucks...I feel your pain. But it's required.

WD

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motoman399
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WDRacing wrote:The oil drains from the turbo by gravity only. The oil line has to go from the turbo to the pan or the oil WILL NOT drain. This causes tons of problems since oil will leak past all the seals and enter the compressor and exhaust side.WD
http://www.scavengepump.com/ wrote:
Automotive enthusiasts are discovering the benefits of using our scavenge pump.

They are powerful enough to pull the oil 30" and more in height from low mounted turbochargers.
now im not disagreeing with you WD, but i am just stating that there is another route, however its not the right route. unless you have a remote mount or a low turbo, like some twin turbo setups on V6(8) engines

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93 Chuki FB
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it will be done right no matter what, but im trying to find the easiest route. On my friends 1999 Saab 9-3, his return line runs into the valve cover, he has the stock Garret turbo, now why can his car run the turbo lines like that but i can't? i followed the line and it goes straight into the turbo with no pump so WTF?? And can somebody send me a write up on how to remove the oil pan without pulling the motor.

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motoman399
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i would have to see pics to believe it. sorry. lol

to pull the pan... 1. unbolt the brackets connecting the engine to the trans on the bottom.2. take out your sway bar.3. unbolt the motor mount from the cross member.4. place a jack under the trans and jack the thing up till it his the trans tunnel.5. unbolt the oil pan.6. (optional) unbolt the oil pickup tube7. remove oil pan.

reverse operation to get back in. shouldnt take more than a few hours.

the book calls for 2.5 hours if you do it this way

1. Raise and support vehicle. Drain engine oil. Remove power steering tube. Remove front stabilizer bar bolts and nuts from frame rails. Remove left and right engine mount bolts. Remove gussets. Disconnect intermediate shaft from steering rack. Remove oil pan bolts. Remove front crossmember.2. Separate oil pan from cylinder block using hammer and Seal Cutter . DO NOT use a screwdriver, as sealing surfaces may be damaged or oil pan may be distorted. Remove oil pan through front.
Modified by motoman399 at 8:16 PM 4/9/2010

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93 Chuki FB
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u will have ur pictures tomorrow

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motoman399
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sweet. i have never seen one like that.

did you ever use that turbo for a go kart or what ever it was going on? lets see some pics and video of that lol

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SxMachine
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93 Chuki FB wrote:i dont know the specs of the turbo, all i know is its a IHI and the series is RHF4.
LOL, wow a baby turbo.If your gonna use a stock turbo off of another car at least match the displacement or get it as close to the ka's as possible. Try a volvo, vg or cummins turbo with a ebay flange adapter if needed. And HOW do you have $$$ for coilovers but not enuff leftover to build a ka? I hope you plan on learning a BUNCH of lessons after all this.
Modified by SxMachine at 2:32 AM 4/11/2010

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93 Chuki FB
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ok sorry guys, i didn't realize my friend had work over the weekend so i couldn't get pics of his oil lines but tomorrow i will make a vid for sure. im drifting so the last thing i need is to build a motor, im focusing on the chassis first, and as my skill level increases and i get to the point were i need the power is when i will build the KA, im getting to that point. The next drift event is what is gonna decide whether i continue the KA-T project or continue to focus on the chassis.

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Chris28
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If you don't want to take the time to build the motor than I suggest not going the KA-T route until you have time to build it properly. That turbo is way too small for the KA, it would be a waste of time to put together a setup with that small of a turbo.

You don't have to rebuild the KA to boost it, but you want to make sure your setup is reliable. Drifting a stock KA is plenty of fun, stick with that until you think you need a turbo, then do it right.

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93 Chuki FB
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What are u talking about? i have time and i will build it properly, if u read through the thread u would know im using that turbo anymore, i bought a eBay turbo for now and im waiting on money and a few other parts.

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Just so long as you run the oil drain to the pan you'll be fine. I don't care what kind of pics you can find of some random Saab. His oil return does NOT go to the valve cover unless he decided to do away with the stock return line. From the factory the Saab has a block return.



See the 3" line going from the turbo to the block? That's the return line. There is a crankcase vent line that goes from the valve cover to the intake pipe just before the turbo, maybe that is what you're thinking is the return line.


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motoman399
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^^ great pics.... no worky

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93 Chuki FB
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yeah ur right, we looked closer at it today and realized that it was some breather line going to the crankcase. My bad

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motoman399
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lol its cool. you need the oil coming from the turbo flowing good. it doesnt make pressure.

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rocksteady_racer
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Yes the oil line has to run down from the turbo into the oil pan for proper drainage - already covered. A t3 flange just means the turbo has a larger exhaust port so that more exhaust gas can flow into the exhaust turbine (mostly if you had a higher lift cam or a larger displacement engine). Ball bearings are used in stock turbos because they spool up faster than their journal bearing counterparts and are easier to find used online since most cars come with them stock. However, journal bearing is a much easier install because you don't have to run coolant lines, it's just two oil lines - one running in the turbo and one coming out with a oil restricter added to the incoming line to prevent too much oil going into the turbo and damaging the seals. I'm running a t3/t4 cxracing turbo (i know junk going to upgrade to garrett later) on my sohc boosted project. The cxracing turbos are journal bearing thus cheaper new (like if you buy a garrett t3/t4 most of them are journal bearing unless you specifically request a ball bearing (with the journal bearing they are only 800$ brand new)). The downside of a journal bearing is that it spools up about 500-1000rpm later than the ball bearing one. However, you don't have to worry about idling your car when you park it no matter how hard you drive. Turbo timers really are only for ball bearing turbos so that the coolant continues to run through the turbo and prevent turbo damage if you were say driving on the highway for an extended period of time or racing it - you want to let the car idle for 2 to 3 min after that (the only thing turbo timers do is let you do that without being near the car and after you take the key out). Anyway keep us updated on your build. My t3/t4 gets about 230 hp to the wheels at about 8psi with my tuning (chipped sohc ecu and e-manage ultimate for fine tuning - need to upgrade the maf for more). So in theory a t28 on a ka24 depending on how you rebuilt it should get about 200ish right at @15psi? A t25 at 15psi i think would only be like 160 or so with the way the stock motor is built. <---- Before every jumps on me, I'm not talking about from the crank, I'm talking about rear wheel horsepower (like the stock motor puts out about 115-120) ----> The stock internals on your block as long as it doesn't have like 200k miles (then it's time for some new rings, maybe new pistons, and a head rebuilt(prob should be done around 100k (that's what nissan recommends on the dohc)(the sohc never has to be rebuilt except for valve seals or if you broke it)) will handle 250hp easily with a good set of injectors, a little tuning, an upgrade fuel pump, and a couple more things here and there. There's really no reason to get higher lift cams with a t28 unless it's built diff than factory.

I don't know if this is going to be your eveyday driver - when I do turbo builds I like to pull the whole engine and bolt everything on outside the car. An engine stand is only about 80$. But that's up to you. Everything is way easier that way. And if you were to say upgrade the radiator, have some rusty studs that snap when you take off the exhaust manifold, or want to paint the inside of your engine bay - everything will be out of the way and you can carefully place everything where you want.
Modified by rocksteady_racer at 11:51 AM 4/13/2010

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93 Chuki FB
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rocksteady_racer wrote:Yes the oil line has to run down from the turbo into the oil pan for proper drainage - already covered. A t3 flange just means the turbo has a larger exhaust port so that more exhaust gas can flow into the exhaust turbine (mostly if you had a higher lift cam or a larger displacement engine). Ball bearings are used in stock turbos because they spool up faster than their journal bearing counterparts and are easier to find used online since most cars come with them stock. However, journal bearing is a much easier install because you don't have to run coolant lines, it's just two oil lines - one running in the turbo and one coming out with a oil restricter added to the incoming line to prevent too much oil going into the turbo and damaging the seals. I'm running a t3/t4 cxracing turbo (i know junk going to upgrade to garrett later) on my sohc boosted project. The cxracing turbos are journal bearing thus cheaper new (like if you buy a garrett t3/t4 most of them are journal bearing unless you specifically request a ball bearing (with the journal bearing they are only 800$ brand new)). The downside of a journal bearing is that it spools up about 500-1000rpm later than the ball bearing one. However, you don't have to worry about idling your car when you park it no matter how hard you drive. Turbo timers really are only for ball bearing turbos so that the coolant continues to run through the turbo and prevent turbo damage if you were say driving on the highway for an extended period of time or racing it - you want to let the car idle for 2 to 3 min after that (the only thing turbo timers do is let you do that without being near the car and after you take the key out). Anyway keep us updated on your build. My t3/t4 gets about 230 hp to the wheels at about 8psi with my tuning (chipped sohc ecu and e-manage ultimate for fine tuning - need to upgrade the maf for more). So in theory a t28 on a ka24 depending on how you rebuilt it should get about 200ish right at @15psi? A t25 at 15psi i think would only be like 160 or so with the way the stock motor is built. <---- Before every jumps on me, I'm not talking about from the crank, I'm talking about rear wheel horsepower (like the stock motor puts out about 115-120) ----> The stock internals on your block as long as it doesn't have like 200k miles (then it's time for some new rings, maybe new pistons, and a head rebuilt(prob should be done around 100k (that's what nissan recommends on the dohc)(the sohc never has to be rebuilt except for valve seals or if you broke it)) will handle 250hp easily with a good set of injectors, a little tuning, an upgrade fuel pump, and a couple more things here and there. There's really no reason to get higher lift cams with a t28 unless it's built diff than factory.

I don't know if this is going to be your eveyday driver - when I do turbo builds I like to pull the whole engine and bolt everything on outside the car. An engine stand is only about 80$. But that's up to you. Everything is way easier that way. And if you were to say upgrade the radiator, have some rusty studs that snap when you take off the exhaust manifold, or want to paint the inside of your engine bay - everything will be out of the way and you can carefully place everything where you want.

Modified by rocksteady_racer at 11:51 AM 4/13/2010
wow im learning so much everyday!!! the next major step will be decided sunday (my first drift event at Bremerton raceway) so excited!

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rocksteady_racer
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O and I almost forgot since no one pointed this out. The KA24DE (as in your engine) already has oil piston squirters installed stock - so that helps keeps the engine cool under abuse. The KA24E (SOHC) does not have these oil squirters installed stock... however there is a dude who has a sohc build website and surprisingly nissan cut all the oil channels for the piston squirters but did not install them. So if someone on here has a sohc and wanted to boost it and is rebuilding the motor - adding dohc oil piston squirters is a bolt in affair pretty much. So w00t for that. That's what I'm doing to mine so it doesn't blow up lol.

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Caveit77777
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Sorry I read only to about half way through but turbocharging the single cam? I don't want to straight up say it's a bad idea but it's a bad idea. I'd say just wait and do it right once and you can save a little cash that way. I don't think it's worth all the effort just for 180hp.

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Caveit77777 wrote:Sorry I read only to about half way through but turbocharging the single cam? I don't want to straight up say it's a bad idea but it's a bad idea. I'd say just wait and do it right once and you can save a little cash that way. I don't think it's worth all the effort just for 180hp.
No real nice way to say this so...That's a very ignorant statement.

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motoman399
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WDRacing wrote: No real nice way to say this so...That's a very ignorant statement.

WORD!!

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Caveit77777
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No real nice way to say this so...That's a very ignorant statement.[/quote]

Hey to each his own ya dig? I'm not saying it's unreliable but I'd rather turbo the DE, that's just me.

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PyR0NiAk
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WD's point is plenty of people have built some pretty serious single cams...

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93 Chuki FB
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hey guys im back, it took so long to figure out how to long into my account but i figured it out. So i got some bad news recently and i cant do the KA-T project. the reason is my senior project for high school. I talked to the Auto teacher and it turns out i cant just turbo my engine cause its not 60-90 hrs of work so we brainstormed and my plan is to swap the motor again and combine the hrs of time it took for all 4 motors to swap (1st 3 motors were duds). And so my project is to swap a CA18DET into my car cause of the price, and that should put me at 65hrs for the project. So anybody know of a good place to buy a CA18DET? Osaka JDM engines has them for $950 has anybody bought and engine from them? heres the link http://www.osakajdmmotors.com/jdm-engin ... b1d2ec938a

My brother bought a shell so im gonna give him my current setup and hes gonna turbo that, since it will be out of the car is will be pretty easy to do so i guess the KA-T project will live on but not through me, i will keep u guys posted

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PyR0NiAk
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I remember reading something yesterday about avoiding osaka. Can't remember why. I'll see if I can find the thread. I got my SR from jdm-online.com

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motoman399
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seriously you cant just fake like 20 hours lol. thats a lot of hours for a senior project. i never did my senior project lol. almost failed high school. thank god for home school haha. why dont you just build the ka instead of getting a less powerful engine for more money? i mean the ca is cool but the ka built is cooler. do some port work on you head, intake mani, and exhaust mani. that will get you about 10 hours. then rebuild the thing yourself with forged internals. that could easily be extended to 5 hours. maybe you could talk the machinist into letting you help which could net more hours. well good luck with your ca project.

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PyR0NiAk
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I have to agree with moto... A CA is old enough that it'd be a good idea to rebuilt that anyway. Since either way, you're going to need to rebuild, why not do the KA?

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93 Chuki FB
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i cant really fake 20hrs lol, ive had that teacher for past 3 years and hes an awesome guy, hes knows the whole story from start to beginning so i cant fake anything and i also have to document everything and provide proof for it all, the ca is just as old as a ka24e so i don't see the big deal ( as far as age goes). and yeah 60-90hrs is a s*** load, and my ka is a 95 with only 145k and the compression is perfect and zero smoke so i really doubt a rebuild is in order, and besides im an engineer at heart and the ca is an engineers wet dream. im gonna upgrade the turbo to a t28 and run 10psi of boost, it should hold up just fine.

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PyR0NiAk
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The suggestion was a good way to add in that extra time.. You could milk your time in measuring clearances and things of that nature.. You confused me though, by first talking about your KA and then reverting to the CA. Which one are you going with? And are you saying the CA is just as old as the KA-E as a way of saying it will or won't need a rebuild?

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93 Chuki FB
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sorry for the confusion, what im trying to say is the ka24e is just as old as the ca18det, and ka's hold up just fine without rebuilds. I dont know how to rebuild an engine just how to take it apart lol, so yeah im gonna go with CA, but im still gonna turbo the ka24de thats in my car now, but its gonna take a little longer and my douche of a little brother is gonna do all the work but im gonna document it.


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