Apple did it again - iPhone 4

[Jesda]

That's why iPad is a consumer good. I absolutely hated having to tweak Android to get it to do things the way I wanted, and even after downloading a utility to remedy every idiotic thing it didn't do correctly out of the box, it was still a bit crude.

I hope I'm not coming across as the Android version of Empty V, but it's not quite that simple. If it was down to a choice between a device that just does what you want, and a device that needs tweaking to do what you want, I could absolutely see your point. But for many people that's the case. For many the decision is between a device that doesn't do what they want, or a device that needs some tweaking to do what they want. It's just like desktop operating systems: none are perfect, but some do more of what I want than others.

I think its maybe even simpler than that. People want the iPhone but don't want to leave their carrier. Android is sufficient.

[numbnuts240]

pandora

just covering for gerry

[Jesda]

You are the hobbyist. They are the end user that all the design, engineering, and marketing wants to satisfy. Some people are into fishing, cars, or woodworking. Not everyone wants to become intimately involved with the inner workings of their technology. Its a very different and very mature high-tech landscape now. Early adopters are no longer just the technophiles who read ArsTechnica and Toms Hardware.

I understand exactly what you're saying, but this scares me considerably. I totally get the purpose of the iPhone. It does most of what anyone would want and does it simply. What frightens me is that people will gladly give up their options to buy a device that is so simple. "As long as it's easy, I'll only do what Steve Jobs tells me to". I don't know about you, but I kind of like to think for myself. Fewer and fewer people today seem to care about forming their own opinions, or actually learning anything. That is exactly why I'm finding it harder and harder to talk to my fellow citizens these days; most just rely on spewing out 30 second sound clips they heard on CNN. Forgot the context and the bias, if some news source states something it must be fact. I just want people to not care solely about what is "easy". How about what is right?

Most netbooks purchased by consumers are used for music and browsing. They get used on the toilet, left next to the couch, or taken to coffee shops or to school. The iPad takes the place of a lot of that and does those two things in a more enjoyable way. I don't think business travelers would seriously consider one, nor hobbyists.

Again, going to have to disagree. When it comes to web browsing, the netbook is definitely more capable. Tabs and flash both make the netbook more usable. And you mentioned music, as of right now, not if you're browsing. No multitasking is a bit of a drawback as well. IMO, the benefit of the iPad is in the following:

Speed to look something up/read email (with the device near a couch this will be a faster method of searching something or reading an email quickly and should be faster than a netbook)
Form-factor (compared to the netbook it is smaller, lighter and more attractive)
As an e-book/magazine reader (much easier than using a netbook/laptop)

Maybe I'm missing something, but off the top of my head those are the main benefits for owning the iPad. That is one expensive device to fill those limited needs.

It is quite expensive. The level of enjoyment it adds justifies the price (as a luxury good). It seems ridiculous on paper, and I thought it was a stupid idea until I picked one up and interacted with it. I won't go as far as calling it "magical" but it does change the way you interact with content.

That's another thing people forget to consider -- Apple products are all luxuries. You can get anywhere in a Civic, and you can do it for very little cost. But the Cadillac will do it with a degree of pleasure. The replacement parts cost a lot more and it requires premium fuel, but its worth the cost for many -- folks will pay 3-4x what a Civic costs to go to the same places and carry the same amount of cargo/passengers. Its not hard to imagine paying double the cost of a netbook.

And yes, you can listen to music while browsing on iPad. Even though the OS doesnt natively support multitasking, iTunes has always been able to run in the background. Jailbreaking enables full multitasking, but its stupid that you have to do that to make it happen.

The netbook is something I grab and put down. I don't keep it running for hours at a time, so the iPad's lack of boot time is a huge plus.

If Apple had developed the Messagepad platform further, I'd probably continue using that. I got my Messagepad 2100 with Newton OS 2.0 to crudely browse the web wirelessly with a CDPD PCMCIA data card. Newton OS, in my opinion, was more feature-rich and productivity-oriented.

I don't care what anyone says. This was the most badass portable device ever conceived. Apple has always had an amazing group of engineers. They just lacked a frontman (until Jobs) to sell their ideas.

[flohtingPoint]

-hey, what's the name of that female smurf?
-hmm, idk, let me look it up on my IPHONE!!!!
-why don't you just say "phone"?

-where are we going to eat tonight?
-idk, what are you in the mood for?
-this is your hood, what's around here?
-wait, i can look it up on my IPHONE!!!!!!
-you're stupid.

BUT IT'S SO REVOLUTIONARY!!!! Sooner or later the Apple zealots will take the iPud out of their mouth, breathe and realize how foolish it is to argue about this crap. This is worse than when nVidiots and 3DFX fans were arguing about their respective products.

[infinitgkid]

the only things i know about iphones:
1. i don't have one
2. it's only on at&t, the reason i will never have one
3. mark owns one and i make fun of him for it
4. gerry hates his
5. most people who have them, that i've met, ALWAYS make sure to keep reminding you that they have one. ex (these are actual exchanges):
-hey, what's the name of that female smurf?
-hmm, idk, let me look it up on my IPHONE!!!!
-why don't you just say "phone"?

-where are we going to eat tonight?
-idk, what are you in the mood for?
-this is your hood, what's around here?
-wait, i can look it up on my IPHONE!!!!!!
-you're stupid.

lol funny story:

This guy who went to my highschool, and was well known in the car circles down in Greenville got an iPhone back in '07, so they were fairly new then. He kept going on and on about how awesome the iPhone was, and he kept saying that stuff like "I have an app for that" or "Let me look it up on my iPhone" and so on.

At first everyone one was fascinated by it because, as some people in this thread may disagree, the iPhone was this cool, latest and greatest, cutting edge gadget (supposedly), and it peaked everyones interest at least once.

Anyway, this guy kept going on and on and on: "Let me check it out on my IPHONE... blah blah blah". Well it started to get old real fast and then one day I saw him with this flip phone. I asked him what happened to his fancy iPhone, and he told me that some random guys at this club beat him up and took his phone, wallet, and whatever else he had on him at the time. I asked him why didn't he just use his warranty/insurance to replace the phone and he told me that it had expired.

Back on topic:
I'm going to get the new iPhone and not because I'm a fanboy, just because I really like the phone. Everyone has their uses for their phones (whether it be work, play, etc.) and for me as a college student who likes to slack off in class by watching movies, listening to music, browsing the web (NICO ), all while getting e-mail from work/professors and texting my friends about the hotties sitting near me; the iPhone accomplishes that and then some.

I can't speak for all of you, and I know some of you would tell me to just take a laptop, cell phone, mp3 to class, or just get a blackberry. But I've been down those routes before and iPhone has topped my cell phone experience. I'm looking forward to the iPhone 4.

[MinisterofDOOM]

This is worse than when nVidiots and 3DFX fans were arguing about their respective products.

I miss the days of the GeForce 4 when I could just point at nVidia fanbois and laugh. These days the market is a lot more balanced so the "discussions" are really discussions rather than anything more...spirited.

[AppleBonker]

Jailbreaking enables full multitasking, but its stupid that you have to do that to make it happen.

This is where the absurdity of the device comes in. I know why Apple limits functionality (to improve performance and battery life), but what if this is a sacrifice I'm willing to make? This decision has been taken out of my hands. That is my biggest gripe with iDevices. I feel (and I am biased) that I am smart enough to choose what the product should do. Just because most people would blame limited battery life or slowed performance with native multitasking on the device itself, I would be able to understand when I was asking too much. So Apple dumbs down the device for the "average" user at my expense. Eff the average user.

The netbook is something I grab and put down. I don't keep it running for hours at a time, so the iPad's lack of boot time is a huge plus.

Jesda, it would appear that we are actually on the same page as far as the iPad goes. This is one of the major perks to the iPad. For extended browsing, I prefer a netbook (I like reading NICO with multiple tabs open, etc). But, when watching tv or a movie and I want to know what else an actor/actress has appeared in, the iPad is better. If I want to check the weather quickly, the iPad is better. Quick email check, iPad wins again (though I wouldn't want to type anything extensive on it). I don't tell people not to buy iPads, I just want them to understand the limitations BEFORE taking the plunge. It seems (unsurprisingly) that you have done the research enough to make an informed decision. I doubt you'll be disappointed. Just be careful when you take it places. People love to ask if it's an iPad (umm... hello?) and then if they should get one. No one understands when I try to explain that I really love my iPad, but I cannot recommend it over a netbook...

What?!?!? Did this hater just say he has an iPad? Indeed. I have an iPhone too! Mind-bottling.

[RicerX]

I absolutely can't stand this - I have to weigh in and leave it be afterward. Time for some school from the guy who used to work in the wireless industry.

iPhone4. Revolutionary?

I'll admit - the original iPhone was only partially revolutionary for several reasons. The iPod was Apple's revolutionary product. It changed the way people obtained, organized, and listened to music. No more clunky CD walkmans. No more skipping music while attempting to listen to music and exercise. The iPhone was simply the next logical step in developing a product that could generate as much momentum as the iPod from Apple. The iPhone is a smartphone packaged in such a way that the general cellphone user could actually wrap their head around the features that a smartphone brings. At the time of the iPhone's debut, there were only two major smartphone OSs available to the general public - Windows Mobile and Blackberry. (You can include palm if you want, but around 2007-ish, palm was headed downhill in a big way due to poor product support, etc. You could also include Symbian, but unfortunately, Symbian was largely irrelevant to US market share bc Nokia concentrated on its holdings in Europe and Asia, as well as largely focusing on breaking into India). Now, go back to 2007. Smartphones were originally designed and marketed to businesses and the "pro-sumer". Blackberries were just starting to break into the general consumer market (with the god-awful Pearl), and generally started making their devices a bit cheaper in order to meet market demand. Apple came in with a device that utilized a very proper touchscreen interface that mimiced the interface that many users already recognized in their ipods. Makes perfect sense for trying to market to the US cell phone market that still comprised of about only 35-40% smartphone users (vs standard cell phone users). The iPhone also had a support platform that many potential users already had access to with iTunes. Apple is largely successful at packaging technology that is already available on the market in such a way that is EASY for people to use, all in one convenient location. It's all familiar and it doesn't take much technical prowess to understand.

Now - there are several things that the iPhone took four versions of development to get that many other smartphones already had.
1) Picture messaging. (actual MMS, not email attachments.)
2) Copy and Paste (iPhone 3G). The 6000 and 7000 series Blackberries could do this, much less the 8000 and 9000 series BBs the iPhone is up against. So could Windows Mobile 5 phones (7 is about to be released now).
3) Multitasking (iPhone4) See #2.
4) Videoconferencing. This has been available in Europe and Asia for 3 years now over the network (read: NOT JUST WiFi). This is largely because Europe doesn't have this pesky thing called the FCC. For example, in 2008, England (roughly the size of Texas), had 3 TIMES the amount of cell towers than the ENTIRE UNITED STATES. They had (and have) the communications infrastructure to support high speed data to the degree that everyone could walk around England on a videoconference (3G has been around for a very long time, and many of their providers there are have already been pursuing and implementing LTE and 4G technology while we are still trying to increase 3G footprints). As for it being revolutionary for how we communicate here in the states? Hardly. Why? Well, we have things like Skype that have been around for several years already. That videoconferences quite well over wifi and has for two years or so. It's also free. Sure, it's neat to have it in the palm of your hand though.

As for business use - the iPhone OS architecture is plagued with security holes. As a matter of fact, it is FOURTH amongst smartphone OSs for information integrity. Blackberry is first, Windows mobile is second, and symbian is third. Even if DoD contractors use AT&T as their suggested provider, there's no way in hell they'll issue their employees with security clearances iPhones for work email. It will be a Blackberry, and it will be for a long time for several reasons, including the following:
1) Apple is not trying to break into the business market (yet). It just so happens that its phone is a SMARTPHONE that has some features that satisfy the needs of SOME BUSINESS USERS. Just like a Blackberry has features that satisfy SOME CASUAL USERS. The Blackberry is the hardcore business phone. The iPhone is a hardcore consumer phone.
2) Blackberries are able to be remotely controlled with Enterprise servers. The flow of information is under complete control and completely secure. Apple has nothing out there for something like this, which is why, even if you do have an iPhone, you will never see sensitive or classified information on one. Don't you think someone like the President of the United States would carry an iPhone if it was a solid, 100% capable and secure BUSINESS phone? I would think he would. But he carries a Blackberry. (and yes, I know about being able to remotely access your iPhone from any computer. This is not the same thing as Blackberry's Enterprise Management Suite. You can access your MySpace account from any computer, too, and we all know how robust MySpace's security is.)

From a consumer standpoint - the only reason why Apple will remain relevant in the smartphone game longterm is because of their product integration with everything else they've built up since 2003 starting with the iPod. What they need to do to keep from losing market share to Android and BB is ditch AT&T to increase their footprint in the marketshare. Android has taken 2nd place in market share because Android is not a PHONE, it is a PLATFORM that many phones use. Across many carriers. T-Mobile, Verizon, Sprint, and now, even AT&T, provide Android based phones. On top of that, application development seems to be much more intuitive, and Google has MANY assets that provide the same type of product integration that we see with Apple, except what Google has is MUCH more beneficial to a smart phone platform in the form of its (of course) Google search engine, Gmail, Google Maps, GTalk, etc. on top of the numerous apps now available on the Android market. Apple actually needs Google for some of the success of its iPhone, but Google does NOT need Apple. On another note, Apple's big advantage with the iPhone is quickly diminishing (that being its touch screen, which i'll admit was lightyears ahead of the competition), but HTC knows how to make a phone, and they HTC Droid Incredible utilizes an amazing touchscreen that is, dare i say, on par with the iPhone. Everyone else is taking note of this too.

Bottom line - it's a very cool iteration from Apple. The Apple nuthuggers will line up and rejoice using their PTO to get one the morning they're available. The Blackberry and Android users will laugh. To say the iPhone4 will revolutionize the way we all communicate - well, I hate to say it, but Apple is actually only catching up with some of the competition (now with copy and paste and multitasking!), rather than revolutionizing the industry. Perhaps Empty V should stop turning up glasses of "Apple-ade".

Now if Apple finds out how to create telepathy via bluetooth headband, we'll talk further about industry revolution.

/THREAD.

[numbnuts240]

hater.

[RCA]

I love all this cell phone talk...

But what makes me so excited is my Tmobile 3G is pulling 9000kbs in my town.
AT&T... 750kbs.

[RicerX]

For the record, I hate my god-forsaken POS BB Tour. I can't wait to destroy it with a sledgehammer the moment I purchase my replacement phone.

[Jesda]

The Evo that just came out needs two hacks and third-party add-ons to give it reasonable battery life. One increases permissions for installed applications, the other underclocks the CPU when in sleep mode, another gives easier access to radio on/off controls. Its ridiculous that HTC would release a product without these essential features.

It all relates to the lack of polish that I keep bringing up when it comes to Android phones and the OS. Motorola seems to have a better grip on hardware and software quality control with its Droid.

[Jesda]

For the record, I hate my god-forsaken POS BB Tour. I can't wait to destroy it with a sledgehammer the moment I purchase my replacement phone.

I <3 mine. I bought it Sunday.

[RicerX]

Jesda - let me know how you feel about it in six months. Sincere good luck to you. I have had terrible luck with mine.

[Jesda]

I cant imagine it catching fire or melting. I had a Curve for a year.

[EvillE423]

I'll admit, the iPhone is pretty sweet. The thing that turns me away from Apple is the "Look at how much better our products are than everyone elses" vibe that they put out. Most people that use Apple products think they are the greatest things to ever be created. And the get butthurt when people express their opinions about it, like the OP has done the entire thread. I have used an iPhone 3GS and will admit, it's pretty cool. But I would much rather have my 2.1 rooted Droid Eris over it any day. I don't even think we have began to scratch the surface of what Android is capable of yet. Plus, I like the ability to be able to customize my phone the way I want it, not how the manufacturer thinks it should be. For the average person, sure the iPhone will do all of what they need, but for those who want to be able to do what they want to and with their phone, Android can't be beat, IMO. It's stupid to sit and argue with Apple fanbois, you aren't going to be able to change their mind. Let them think they have the best, new "revolutionary" device on the market. We know what's best and what's not. I've gotten into a few arguments just like this with my sister who has a mac computer. It only has 512mb RAM, can't remember what else, not top of the line by far, and was like $1700, and she still seems to think that no computer out there is any better. Apple products are way, way, way to overpriced for me when I can get something the same price that any Apple product can't touch. Just my $.02.

[MinisterofDOOM]

The big difference between Apple products and Windows, PC, Android, Linux, etc. alternatives, is that Apple is all officially Apple. No one else makes iOS devices. No one else makes MacOS devices.

That's where the price difference comes into play. There's a TON of competition in the PC hardware market. There's none in the Mac hardware market. True, modern Macs use "Wintel" hardware, but there's still very little variation in Mac hardware. There's no Dell equivalent for everyman Macs. There's no Alienware overpricing hotted-up Macs. There's just Mac.

Same for iOS vs Android. Anyone can make an Android phone, only apple makes the iPhone. That plays a role in pricing but also in hardware and software capabilities. iOS is designed to do only certain things. Since only Apple makes devices that use it, they can control what it does and how it does it. Mac's the same. With that degree of control, Apple can make the most of its hardware and software. So comparing RAM numbers straight across isn't completely fair (though Macs are still often disappointingly low on memory). Android needs to support a lot of variety. So does Windows. MacOS and iOS don't.

They're very different approaches, and they're not always directly comparable.

[Jesda]

It only has 512mb RAM, can't remember what else, not top of the line by far, and was like $1700, and she still seems to think that no computer out there is any better. Apple products are way, way, way to overpriced for me when I can get something the same price that any Apple product can't touch. Just my $.02.

If it really does have only 512MB, its probably a few years old. My old G4 ran acceptably on 512MB because OS X tends to be reasonably lean. The same is generally true for Windows XP SP3.

The opposite end are those who spend $600 on an HP at Best Buy and the piece of s*** breaks 3 months later. Yes, I've been in this situation a couple times with BOTH high and low-end HPs, including an expensive tablet that would SHUT DOWN WHEN INSTALLING WINDOWS XP OR PLAYING VIDEOS, UNLESS YOU PUT THE COMPUTER IN THE FRIDGE WHEN THE CPU UTILIZATION WAS HIGH. That's right, I had to put the f*** computer in the refrigerator or else it would shut down from overheating. The keyboard was slightly bent from the plastics warping. I tried everything including a copper shim and improved thermal paste, but nothing made a difference. HP denied there was anything wrong. The carcass of that piece of s*** TX1000 was ebayed for parts. Their once-legendary printing products are garbage now too. So that's it for me, no more HP. And to think, former HP CEO Carly Fiorina might end up governor of California. Have fun with that, west coasters.

As for the price of Apple products, I tend to keep my Apple computers for several years. I used a Performa 638 from 1995-2002, eventually relegating it to e-mail, light browsing, and TV status (it came with a tuner and video input card with remote). Only had 33MHz of juice but it chugged along until I eventually gave it away. I think I might have upgraded the motherboard to one with a math coprocessor and added an ethernet card. I regret selling my G4 Mini; I should have kept it as a living room set top box for video playback.

And then there's all of the Apple Newtons I owned which served me well. They were truly great devices far ahead of their time.

I'm pretty pleased right now with my Lenovo S10 that dual-boots XP/10.5.7 and homemade Hackintosh dual booting W7/10.6. I'm trying to work out a deal with a friend to get his dual core Macbook for ridiculously cheap.



The Apple of today is mostly built around the iPod rather than science experiments and technologies of the 80s and 90s that went nowhere (Quicktake, Newton, Pippin, Copeland, Tablet Phone, Taligent, eWorld, A/UX, CHiRP, Apple iTV (1990s), Starfish, and the list goes on). Like the hipster cat, I liked Apple before it was trendy to like Apple. Now all the cool kids are crowding my turf.

[EvillE423]

If it really does have only 512MB, its probably a few years old. My old G4 ran acceptably on 512MB because OS X tends to be reasonably lean. The same is generally true for Windows XP SP3.

The opposite end are those who spend $600 on an HP at Best Buy and the piece of s*** breaks 3 months later. Yes, I've been in this situation a couple times with BOTH high and low-end HPs, including an expensive tablet that would SHUT DOWN WHEN INSTALLING WINDOWS XP OR PLAYING VIDEOS, UNLESS YOU PUT THE COMPUTER IN THE FRIDGE WHEN THE CPU UTILIZATION WAS HIGH. That's right, I had to put the f*** computer in the refrigerator or else it would shut down from overheating. The keyboard was slightly bent from the plastics warping. I tried everything including a copper shim and improved thermal paste, but nothing made a difference. HP denied there was anything wrong. The carcass of that piece of s*** TX1000 was ebayed for parts. Their once-legendary printing products are garbage now too. So that's it for me, no more HP. And to think, former HP CEO Carly Fiorina might end up governor of California. Have fun with that, west coasters.

Like the hipster cat, I liked Apple before it was trendy to like Apple. Now all the cool kids are crowding my turf.

Yeah, it's a few years old now. But when she first bought it, she treated it like it was Gods gift to Earth, like a lot of Apple fanbois. It ran good, I'll admit it. But, I have an Asus laptop with an Intel Core2Duo 2.4 GHz, nVidia Geforce 9650 1GB, and 4GB of RAM and she still thinks that her Mac can out peform my PC. What I was trying to get at is, a lot of Apple owners just can't take that their overpriced product can be outperfomed by something of lower price. This isn't directed at you Jesda, you don't seem to act this way. I can't say I've ever had anything like that happen to me like happended to you. You had some serious overheating problems. LOL. My ex-girlfriends Compaq overheats like crazy too. Like, melts the plastic where you plug in the power supply. You couldn't touch the casing it would get so hot. Dangerous stuff, it wouldn't surprise me if they caused house fires getting hot like that.

[Jesda]

I dig Asus. Even their cheap stuff is built to a high standard and smartly designed. No cheap plastics, no chassis flex, no overheating, commendable performance.

[MinisterofDOOM]

My current gaming rig is actually an off-the-shelf Asus desktop. I'd been planning to build a machine but came across this one for way less than I was spending on basically the same thing piecemeal. Even today it takes some serious price hunting to build a comparable machine within $200 of it. And it's no budget model, either...it's got one of their high-end gaming mobos and lost of other gamer-focused Asus parts.

[C-Kwik]

At any rate, not EVERY iPad buyer would be better served by a netbook. Netbooks aren't necessarily the best at some things just due to the tablet form factor.

I want an iPad (once they have better MS Office compatibility) so I can take it into meetings instead of a laptop or a stack of papers. It's easier to pass around than a netbook/laptop is, and some things are easier to manipulate via touchscreen than via keyboard.

One option for netbook users who need a tablet type of device is HP's TM2T Convertible Tablet PC. Its a bit bigger than a netbook, but since its a tablet, it has the touchscreen features.

[confused9]

yea iphone is cool and all but..my wife brags about it so much i don't like it lol

[Dattebayo]

yea iphone is cool and all but..my wife brags about it so much i don't like it lol

That's cause you're 21 and married. Ack.

[zerepdivad]

they already have that in japan....damn you

[Jesda]

One option for netbook users who need a tablet type of device is HP's TM2T Convertible Tablet PC. Its a bit bigger than a netbook, but since its a tablet, it has the touchscreen features.

I'd rather get aids from Steve Jobs than buy another HP.