93hatch240 n/a ka dyno

[Bigvinnie]

Now I can be completely wrong about this but you also have a 4-1 header I wonder if you kept the 240 onto INT and then just replaced exhaust with a 232 over the 248.... Most people use a 4-2-1 header and you are using a 4-1 header, I wonder if that could effect the scavaging and HP as well. I'll find out about that myself since I use the DC 4-2-1 header.

[93HATCH240]

Now I can be completely wrong about this but you also have a 4-1 header I wonder if you kept the 240 onto INT and then just replaced exhaust with a 232 over the 248.... Most people use a 4-2-1 header and you are using a 4-1 header, I wonder if that could effect the scavaging and HP as well. I'll find out about that myself since I use the DC 4-2-1 header.

I was gonna originally gonna use the s13 xhaust cam as an intake and rotate the cam gear 4th ccw. From reading dj's thread abou the cams it seemed to make the most sense for me but i'm no expert.

[Bigvinnie]

I was gonna originally gonna use the s13 xhaust cam as an intake and rotate the cam gear 4th ccw. From reading dj's thread abou the cams it seemed to make the most sense for me but i'm no expert.

Do what you think is best, from dyno's Ive seen with the 248/248 power drops off much to early. 240 has always worked onto INT. I'm willing to bet it is just the exhaust cam that should be changed to the 232 for ex.240/248 works for everybody that uses the 4-2-1 header, and eeven removal of the scv's. Heck even scott in Yahoo Geo cities made 169WHP with the 240/248, Jim Wolfe Tune, 4-1 header and pulleys, but that was of coarse with 104 octane.I really don't know how to solve this for you I would say give it a last try with a 240/232 combo. If that doesn't work then the 240 cam isn't a 240 cam duration anymore, it's probably been grinding down it's lobe over the 220,000m.

[shotzi]

1993 240sx ka24de . upgraded ecu(included fuel corection, and timing) . home built exaust, short ram intake, electric fans only, everything else is stock! a/c p/s all/. layed down 168hp 165ft/tq.. 93 octane top hp at 4200 and torque 4900. at the wheels. all done for under $500 now i also got to add the the stock motor has 198,763 miles on her. now you see why the ka is a cheif.!!!! money doesent = power , where to spend it does!!

[Bigvinnie]

1993 240sx ka24de . upgraded ecu(included fuel corection, and timing) . home built exaust, short ram intake, electric fans only, everything else is stock! a/c p/s all/. layed down 168hp 165ft/tq.. 93 octane top hp at 4200 and torque 4900. at the wheels. all done for under $500 now i also got to add the the stock motor has 198,763 miles on her. now you see why the ka is a cheif.!!!! money doesent = power , where to spend it does!!

You have the actual dyno? You claim peek HP at 4200RPM, and peek torque at 4900RPM, (it should be the other way around)....... Also most guy's make that power with higher octane's and a header... It would be nice to see what you are talking about.

[93HATCH240]

1993 240sx ka24de . upgraded ecu(included fuel corection, and timing) . home built exaust, short ram intake, electric fans only, everything else is stock! a/c p/s all/. layed down 168hp 165ft/tq.. 93 octane top hp at 4200 and torque 4900. at the wheels. all done for under $500 now i also got to add the the stock motor has 198,763 miles on her. now you see why the ka is a cheif.!!!! money doesent = power , where to spend it does!!

Whats the purpose in posting a new thread then putting this in another thread? Dyno sheets area a must when making claims on power.

Hey Bigvin, You think putting my timing up more would benefit at all. Right not im at 32 degrees. Just a thought. I'm trying to get more power without going crazy on this motor but i might have to. Maybe like another 5-10whp
Modified by 93HATCH240 at 11:49 AM 8/2/2007

[Bigvinnie]

Hey Bigvin, You think putting my timing up more would benefit at all. Right not im at 32 degrees. Just a thought. I'm trying to get more power without going crazy on this motor but i might have to. Maybe like another 5-10whp

You can advance more, but it gets dangerous using the platinum plugs you would have to upgrade to iridiums. Then you would also have to adjust your A/Fr's again as well. I've heard people going as high as 40 degress advanced. I don't believe that you would want to go any higher than that it would be stupid.I've always found myself to believe that 32 degrees is safe enough for using platinum, or iridium plugs on 91 octane, so you may need to step up the fuel requirement to 93 or better.

[93HATCH240]

You can advance more, but it gets dangerous using the platinum plugs you would have to upgrade to iridiums. Then you would also have to adjust your A/Fr's again as well. I've heard people going as high as 40 degress advanced. I don't believe that you would want to go any higher than that it would be stupid.I've always found myself to believe that 32 degrees is safe enough for using platinum, or iridium plugs on 91 octane, so you may need to step up the fuel requirement to 93 or better.

I've always used 93 octane but I still need to get rid of my bosch platnimum +2's and upgrade to ngk plugs. Ill just keep my timing where it is and look for other power methods.

[neverlift]

lol

1993 240sx ka24de . upgraded ecu(included fuel corection, and timing) . home built exaust, short ram intake, electric fans only, everything else is stock! a/c p/s all/. layed down 168hp 165ft/tq.. 93 octane top hp at 4200 and torque 4900. at the wheels. all done for under $500 now i also got to add the the stock motor has 198,763 miles on her. now you see why the ka is a cheif.!!!! money doesent = power , where to spend it does!!

then everyone on nico is making 169whp lol, I can tell you with a custom tune I'm not making 169 and I am running a more aggressive tune(without seeing yours) than yours. I wanna know what dyno you used and the shop, what a/fr's? all the basic questions.... IF you can prove it I'll stfu about it. but without a dyno sheet( a real one) you have to stop the lies.

[niceguy]

The 'imposter' dyno claim is very strange sounding....even many trucks don't make peak hp that low in the power band.......

However, that's almost as strange as an Altima owner that posted (no scans) dynoing 135whp w/intake and timing at 5degreesBTDC....

I too would like to see a dyno sheet....I don't think that setup would even net 169crank hp..

Jeremy

[Bigvinnie]

Ill just keep my timing where it is and look for other power methods.

I would remove the SCV's and get an electric fan... Electric fan will add about 3ft/lb.s of torque to the low end and about 1 HP in the high end. SCV removal is about a 6HP modification in the high end. Then retune SAFC and hopefully find yourself the setting's for the e60MAF, or just get an N60. I would also try a higher grade Octane if you can find it and try the 240/232 combination, I think it will work better with your 4-1 header combo.Alot of people I know are doing the aluminum one piece drive shafts, but they cost about $400 smackers....You should also try TORCO fuel it really does work! Just add it to 93 octane to get a 103OCTANE rating. It's real fuel not a fake octane booster which just masks over for an octane like burn...http://www.need4speedpower.com...#dyno

[93HATCH240]

I would remove the SCV's and get an electric fan... Electric fan will add about 3ft/lb.s of torque to the low end and about 1 HP in the high end. SCV removal is about a 6HP modification in the high end. Then retune SAFC and hopefully find yourself the setting's for the e60MAF, or just get an N60. I would also try a higher grade Octane if you can find it and try the 240/232 combination, I think it will work better with your 4-1 header combo.Alot of people I know are doing the aluminum one piece drive shafts, but they cost about $400 smackers....You should also try TORCO fuel it really does work! Just add it to 93 octane to get a 103OCTANE rating. It's real fuel not a fake octane booster which just masks over for an octane like burn...http://www.need4speedpower.com...#dyno

I already have an 12" e-fan. I'm using the a/c fan hooked up to a switch and have had no problems thus far. I'm not sure about the cams though. I like the powerband The s13 cams gave me but i want more top end outta my motor. The reason being my friend pulling a car and a half just 3rd gear. 1st and 2nd I have him but it seems like when I shift 3rd my car hits a brick wall and goes nowhere and he pulls. My problem is I paid someone 100 bucks to install the s13 cams and 250 bucks for the guy to dyno tune the safc so I'm trying to do everthing right the first time since I cant afford to keep retuning it everytime something is done. I trust your opinion with the 240/232 cam swap but I just wanna give it a lil thought. Now with the Torco fuel additive all I have to do is add it to my tank of 93 octane and it will work as 103 octane. I don't have to retune the neo or do anything else?

[Bigvinnie]

I don't have to retune the neo or do anything else?

Keep your A/Fr's the way it is, just add the fuel mixture.

[Bigvinnie]

I paid someone 100 bucks to install the s13 cams and 250 bucks for the guy to dyno tune the safc so I'm trying to do everthing right the first time since I cant afford to keep retuning it everytime something is done.

I understand how you feel, but why don't you swap the cams yourself? It's easier than it looks, it's not like the KA uses lifters or rockers, it uses buckets, you could swap them yourself by simply marking the engine at TDC removing the valve cover, and marking the position of the gears and chain with some white out, and just reinstall to the markings since the dowel pin location doesn't change (unless you use the exhaust cam on INT and advance 4 tooth method). The FSM even shows how to tighten the bolts cams and valve cover...

While it's open measure the lobe on the 240 INT cam and make sure the cam is even good to use.

[93HATCH240]

I understand how you feel, but why don't you swap the cams yourself? It's easier than it looks, it's not like the KA uses lifters or rockers, it uses buckets, you could swap them yourself by simply marking the engine at TDC removing the valve cover, and marking the position of the gears and chain with some white out, and just reinstall to the markings since the dowel pin location doesn't change (unless you use the exhaust cam on INT and advance 4 tooth method). The FSM even shows how to tighten the bolts cams and valve cover...

While it's open measure the lobe on the 240 INT cam and make sure the cam is even good to use.

Its my daily driver so I didnt wanted it to get done in a timely fashion. I work 2 jobs so I can't afford to have somthing go wrong. I've been thinking of switching to an obx 4-2-1 style header. All said and done between selling my header it will only cost me like 60 bucks.Do you think the change is worth it?From what I understand 4-1(like my pacesetter) is meant for low to mid range power and 4-2-1 is meant for mid to top end power.
Modified by 93HATCH240 at 7:54 AM 8/3/2007

[Bigvinnie]

Its my daily driver so I didnt wanted it to get done in a timely fashion. I work 2 jobs so I can't afford to have somthing go wrong. I've been thinking of switching to an obx 4-2-1 style header. All said and done between selling my header it will only cost me like 60 bucks.Do you think the change is worth it?From what I understand 4-1(like my pacesetter) is meant for low to mid range power and 4-2-1 is meant for mid to top end power.

Modified by 93HATCH240 at 7:54 AM 8/3/2007

4-1 headers are meant to make power until about 6000RPM. The KA doesn't even make peak power to 6000RPM. IMO a 4-2-1 is much better for lowend and midrange power which the KA thrives on. The thing I studied on headers was runner design and length. I ended up purchasing the DC sports 4-2-1 header because the runners are absolutely perfect as far as first and secondary lengths into the collector. The OBX isn't bad but it does have minor imperfections as far as runner lengths and is not as finely tuned to runner lengths as the as the HOTSHOT brand header.IMO anything is better than pacesetter. Atleast I haven't heard any serious complaints about OBX so I would say it's good enough to use.BTW DC sports is the only header to show the highest net in gains for a 4-2-1 header. No other manufacturer has produced results.


Modified by Bigvinnie at 12:03 PM 8/3/2007

[93HATCH240]

4-1 headers are meant to make power over 6000RPM. The KA doesn't even make peak power to 6000RPM. IMO a 4-2-1 is much better for lowend and midrange power which the KA thrives on. The thing I studied on headers was runner design and length. I ended up purchasing the DC sports 4-2-1 header because the runners are absolutely perfect as far as first and secondary lengths into the collector. The OBX isn't bad but it does have minor imperfections as far as runner lengths and is not as finely tuned to runner lengths as the as the HOTSHOT brand header.IMO anything is better than pacesetter. Atleast I haven't heard any serious complaints about OBX so I would say it's good enough to use.BTW DC sports is the only header to show the highest net in gains for a 4-2-1 header. No other manufacturer has produced results.

Modified by Bigvinnie at 7:23 AM 8/3/2007

But for about half the price of the dc header theres obx which is a lot better them my pacesetter. Don't get me wrong if I could afford the DC sport header Iwould have been rockin it on my ka a long time ago. Im really thinking bout the obx 4-2-1 and I'll be able to get a lil. more out the s13 cams with it I think. My friend has had his obx header for probly about a year maybe a lil. longer and has absolutely no problems with it and it stil shines like it did when he installed it.

[Bigvinnie]

Dude I still think that first dyno is wrong. I've been looking over other dyno charts and you have less mods making more power and the power band drops off wayyyy to early in your first dyno graph... Something isn't right at all.Scooters dyno with ITB's 232/232 cams and a megasquirt tune was only pushing 152.8HP Here is a pic of yours...Do you notice that the power on your first dyno drops off like a son of a b#tch? Your torque band is also pulling harder than most ka's with your mods and for having 232/232's.Scooters A/Fr's are more consistent as well, unless of coarse timing at 32 really gives the KA a kick in the pants with it's torque band...LOLI really think something wasn't right with the first dyno especially since you claim it pulls harder now. 240/248 is a torque set up it should naturally be making bigger torque numbers than the 232/232 cams.

Here another dyno with 232/232 cams. The only difference between yor set up and this one is no flywheel or hollow cat.But you can see that the torque band doesn't skyrocket like yours does.


Modified by Bigvinnie at 3:59 PM 8/3/2007

[Bigvinnie]

Besides I don't know why your bitching about your dyno. Your making more power than PDM racing's car on 93 octane. Add the 104 and feel the difference.That first dyno with the 232/232's is horribly wrong, get your freakin money back.LOLHAHAHA SAFC'S CAN make power!!! PDM made 145 WHP, and 166FT/LB's of torque on 94 octane...LOL Your making 147.3WHP, and 164FT/LB.s of torque on 93octane...LOLI gave you the formula with timing and SAFC and are making more power than the PDM set up..LOL ADD the freakin octane!!!!!! Your cams are fine if there making those numbers.http://www.pdm-racing.com/features/court240.html

This means you might even make more numbers than PDM switching out to the 4-2-1 header..LOL


Modified by Bigvinnie at 4:13 PM 8/3/2007

[93HATCH240]

Besides I don't know why your bitching about your dyno. Your making more power than PDM racing's car on 93 octane. Add the 104 and feel the difference.That first dyno with the 232/232's is horribly wrong, get your freakin money back.LOLHAHAHA SAFC'S CAN make power!!! PDM made 145 WHP, and 166FT/LB's of torque on 94 octane...LOL Your making 147.3WHP, and 164FT/LB.s of torque on 93octane...LOLI gave you the formula with timing and SAFC and are making more power than the PDM set up..LOL ADD the freakin octane!!!!!! Your cams are fine if there making those numbers.http://www.pdm-racing.com/features/court240.html

This means you might even make more numbers than PDM switching out to the 4-2-1 header..LOL

Modified by Bigvinnie at 4:13 PM 8/3/2007

PDM what a joke lol. j/k. But seriously i already ordered from torco the two 32 oz bottles just to see what happens . Did that this morning at work.I'm gonna order the header within the next few days as soon as I give my boy money to order them on ebay(I dont have an account). The guy doing the dyno said he would give me a free dyno pull so i'm gonna take advantage of it. I just changed to ngk plugs finally.I think you are right about the dyno after looking at it. My power just nose dives. I do think he f***ed up sumwhere. Ill print up those sheets and argue a lil with them after I'm done wit my dyno but I dont wanna F*** anything up with them. There a good shop that takes are of you. I actually think they are a member here on NICO.I'll see what happens in the next few days. Thanks a lot.

[Bigvinnie]

Any update on you installing the MAF for your next dyno run along with the header?

[93HATCH240]

Any update on you installing the MAF for your next dyno run along with the header?

The maf I was gonna use was from my bros totaled max. It got taken to the junkyard with the maf and pigtails still in it. So idk what im doing yet. If I do it ill be a n60 maf since people know the settings. The header will be ordered tonight or 2maro.

[neverlift]

man your not gonna like me anymore, I have not taken any pics yet but , the parts have all been bought(except teh turbo which I'll be getting tomorrow). I wont tell you the price yet, when I post the thread you'll get filled in.... wanna take a geuss?

I'll miss the n/a fun, but I dont wanna keep spending on n/a when I got a deal like this one you know... plus upgrade injectors bigger maf little bigger turbo and I can make mad ponies.

[Bigvinnie]

man your not gonna like me anymore, I have not taken any pics yet but , the parts have all been bought(except teh turbo which I'll be getting tomorrow). I wont tell you the price yet, when I post the thread you'll get filled in.... wanna take a geuss?

I'll miss the n/a fun, but I dont wanna keep spending on n/a when I got a deal like this one you know... plus upgrade injectors bigger maf little bigger turbo and I can make mad ponies.

What ever works for you man no hatin....When you start bitchen about your MPG though your always welcome back here...LOL

[93HATCH240]

man your not gonna like me anymore, I have not taken any pics yet but , the parts have all been bought(except teh turbo which I'll be getting tomorrow). I wont tell you the price yet, when I post the thread you'll get filled in.... wanna take a geuss?

I'll miss the n/a fun, but I dont wanna keep spending on n/a when I got a deal like this one you know... plus upgrade injectors bigger maf little bigger turbo and I can make mad ponies.

How bout a lil. sneek preview of ur setup. Its only me, you and bigvinnie posting here ne wayz. lol

[neverlift]

well why not its break time anyways... keep getting caught up with stupid shyt. anyways, vin I'm not too worried, low boost, I was able to get a high 3xmpg out of a kinda rich tune with this de already, so IF it drops into 20's I will still be happy. You may hate in a minute...

ok

everything is used and in ok condition, the turbo is mint other then looks , 0 shaft play in out and normal the other way. lol too tired to type it out. included with my setup is a stock sr t25 and o2 housing, next is the ebay manifold used,megan d/p3", 3"test pipe, charge pipes, sr smic,ebay oil return, oil restrictor,bypass valve gonna be used for bov (ota),volvo fmic,and fittings and hoses/lines....... budget of 210 has been spent, about ten more bux I'm about to spend,so.... 220 and boosted FTMFW I got a couple hook ups that really came through for me.I'll try to take pics but thats the only one I have taken, been too busy, lengthend w/g arm,made a couple gaskets,pre assembled and took off my header. 98* sent me inside. another hour or so I should be done. I hope lol, first ka boosting experience FTL when solomio.

[niceguy]

That looks really fun....I've toyed w/the idea of running a small T25/28 internal wategated setup on my '93 Altima....just something fun to drive.....With bolt ons (auto), I put down just under 140whp but think another 25-50hp would really make me smile...

Jeremy

[93HATCH240]

well why not its break time anyways... keep getting caught up with stupid shyt. anyways, vin I'm not too worried, low boost, I was able to get a high 3xmpg out of a kinda rich tune with this de already, so IF it drops into 20's I will still be happy. You may hate in a minute...

ok

everything is used and in ok condition, the turbo is mint other then looks , 0 shaft play in out and normal the other way. lol too tired to type it out. included with my setup is a stock sr t25 and o2 housing, next is the ebay manifold used,megan d/p3", 3"test pipe, charge pipes, sr smic,ebay oil return, oil restrictor,bypass valve gonna be used for bov (ota),volvo fmic,and fittings and hoses/lines....... budget of 210 has been spent, about ten more bux I'm about to spend,so.... 220 and boosted FTMFW I got a couple hook ups that really came through for me.I'll try to take pics but thats the only one I have taken, been too busy, lengthend w/g arm,made a couple gaskets,pre assembled and took off my header. 98* sent me inside. another hour or so I should be done. I hope lol, first ka boosting experience FTL when solomio.

Please make a new thread when you get everything installed. I am very curios as to what this "kit" will do. I'll give you 700 for everyhing right now lol j/k. But seriously you are a TRADER( na KA FTMFW Oh and I finally changed my corroded plugs for some ngk's and the obx header is on its way along with the torco fuel. Hopefully ill see around 10whp with this.

[Bigvinnie]

Hopefully ill see around 10whp with this.

I estimate about3ft/lb.s of torque, and 7WHP total. 1FT/LB of torque, and 2 HP for the NGK iridiums. 2ft/LB.s of torque and 5HP from the 4-2-1 OBX. Maybe even a little bit more tuning from the SAFC with this combination to make those numbers.

[93HATCH240]

I estimate about3ft/lb.s of torque, and 7WHP total. 1FT/LB of torque, and 2 HP for the NGK iridiums. 2ft/LB.s of torque and 5HP from the 4-2-1 OBX. Maybe even a little bit more tuning from the SAFC with this combination to make those numbers.

I was also factoring in the torco fuel into me wanting 10whp.I also have the the standard ngk'r plugs. They didnt have the iridiums in stock. After the header gets intsalled i'll use my free dyno run and see what diff. was made and see if and neo tuning is needed.
Modified by 93HATCH240 at 7:34 AM 8/6/2007