240sx vs integra/prelude

[Bbill528]

i drive my brothers GS-R sometimes and it runs a 15.2 but without that torque it still feels like it's slower than my car...even though i know it's not. You have to drive the **** out of it to go that fast. The 240 always seems to have some power when the integra lacks it. One word UNDERSTEER, it ****in sucks.

[masticatingcow]

FF- Dodge Neon SRT-4.... Volkswagon GTI 1.8t...

Gotta give props to those :P

Sure, but in what context? Is a Neon SRT-4 or a VW GTI 1.8T even in the same league as a NSX, Skyline GT-R or a Corvette?

I'm not suggesting that the 240sx (s13 or s14) is a Viper or anything, but that the drivetrain (FR) is much better for sports purposes. If FF were so good, there would be more cars that could compete with FR or MR heavy hitters (or maybe even AWD... who knows). But the main weakness in a FF layout, traction, is a BIG weakness, and that prevents the drivetrain from excelling at anything but straight line acceleration. Even then, the performace ceiling on a FF is far lower than a FR layout.

[mrflip69]

Right... FF would ultimately be the limiting factor to a car's performance, depending on how far you want to take it, but it is a viable possibility for -humble- goals, though it'll take more work getting that power to the ground

[Fenvy]

I currently own a 94 integra ls and a 91 240sx. To be honest I like the integra more even with the ***** ls engine. With a few minor mods it seems pretty fast and/or at least faster than my 240sx. The turning point is that the market for integra stolen parts are just too big. And ultimately, the 240sx has the sr20det swap to back it up.

In my opinion initial D has gotten lots of people jumping on the drift bandwagon. I just want a cheap turboed, reliable car. I feel that 240 + sr20det swap would be it, rather than ls/gsr/r engine + turbocharger.

[cory2081]

Hondas are EVERYWHERE here!!! Be a lil different, get a 240. I LOVE my S14!!!! Don't get me wrong, I have a few friends with some really fast Hondas (note the word FEW) Hondas lack low end torque for the most part. I like the fact that the 240 is RWD, I just don't see much point in a FWD car with lots of power, too much torque steer (if it hooks up) It just boils down to what you want to do with the car. I chose the 240 for alot of reasons.

[masticatingcow]

Outside of the style/originality argument, it really does comes down to the drivetrain. Now, if we were comparing a N/A S13 to an N/A FC, you'd have a more back and forth debate on all fronts.

:pface ... This just occurred to me, but only in the hands of an experienced driver can a FR car be driven to its maximum potential. It takes work, both under the hood and behind the wheel. In a FF car, the learning curve is a bit gentler (IMHO).

So again, we arrive at the same conclusion, I guess... it just depends on what you want to do with the car and how far you're ready to go for it.

[richd]

FC?

[cory2081]

FC? Well, alot of it is drivetrain, you also have to look at aftermarket stuff. But, then again, there are plenty of goodies for both cars. Screw FWD, they're good for the snow, other than that, I just don't like them as a performance car. RWD rules!!

[cys19]

Hondas are EVERYWHERE here!!! Be a lil different, get a 240. I LOVE my S14!!!! Don't get me wrong, I have a few friends with some really fast Hondas (note the word FEW) Hondas lack low end torque for the most part. I like the fact that the 240 is RWD, I just don't see much point in a FWD car with lots of power, too much torque steer (if it hooks up) It just boils down to what you want to do with the car. I chose the 240 for alot of reasons.

hey cory, your profile thing says you have a '96 s14, do you have a sr20? b/c i'm afraid if i buy a '96 s14 and get a sr20 i might not be able to pass the emissions if they're using obdII

[masticatingcow]

richd, the FC is short for chassis code FC3D, or the second-generation Mazda RX-7.

cory2081, you're right, most of the discussion comparing a S13 and a FC would center around aftermarket performance.

And you're right, there are plenty of parts available for both cars... that's why it would be a tough discussion. This just stands as evidence that comparing FF and FR cars is like night and day: performance-wise, there really isn't much to discuss.

[cory2081]

cys19, I do not have an SR, nor do I want one. If I did anything, it would be an RB swap. Personally, for an everyday driver, I am just going to stick with the KA. I have intake, header, exhaust, +5 timing, and a Centerforce dual friction. I don't have a problem beating most Hondas, some mild modified 5.0's, and GST Eclipses. I like the power band of the KA and hope to build another one to go in the car with forged internals, head work, and later.....a turbo or supercharger. We don't have emissions here, so, I couldn't care less. I don't see why the SR couldn't pass as long as you have a good cat in place. It is smaller than the KA afterall, so, it should put out less emmissions

[tegls1]

If you think Acuras suck because they are FWD what do you think of this then?http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=807089

[Phax]

If you think Acuras suck because they are FWD what do you think of this then?http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=807089

I think that another tuner realized that the FWD pretty much blows, and therefore they built an AWD Integra. What's your point? If FWD is so freakin great, how come the NSX and S2000 are RWD?

[tegls1]

I never said it FWD was great. there a reason why I want a 240sx so bad. I think FWD sucks always having to pull the ebrake to get the back end to slide really sucks. Im just saying that for those that think hondas and Acuras suck. By the way the Integra is RWD not AWD. They converted it for the drift competition.All Im sayng is that honda technology into a RWD car has alot of potencial. You dont find too many 4 cilinder N/A engine pushing 245HP out of the factory except for Hondas and Acuras. Now think of what it can do when you add a blower to it?

Thats my point.

[masticatingcow]

All Im sayng is that honda technology into a RWD car has alot of potencial. You dont find too many 4 cilinder N/A engine pushing 245HP out of the factory except for Hondas and Acuras.

This has already been proven through the NSX and S2000, respectively. But those two statements have yet to apply to the same car. The NSX rocks the MR layout because it has a V6 engine in it. It is a success BECAUSE it's a deviation from Honda's regular engine lineup. The S2000 is a comparative failure because while it posts high numbers, they are almost entirely unattainable when you need them most: in REAL LIFE. The two cars and the facts you suggest could be combined, are totally different.

However, my understanding is that this discussion centered around the difference between DRIVETRAINS. Obviously Honda understands the benefit of RWD.

If what you're saying is that Honda tech is BETTER than Nissan, you're not only off-topic, but you're misinformed. 240hp is GREAT, sure, but at 7800 RPM? Who waits that long, really? And this is in the NEW S2000... with the 2.2L engine and dropped powerband for a more "streetable" ride. Why not go all the way streetable and drop the powerband to 4-6K?

On a side note: I've been noticing that ex-Hondaphiles have VERY different expectations for engines than the majority of Nismophiles (Nissan-philes?). Nissans have this nasty tendency to DESTROY Hondas on the line because most of them are loaded with torque. Honda's high-end advantage pays out in a long drag or maybe on a circuit, but not day to day on the street.

At any rate, it's good that you want a 240... it's a great car. But you're forgetting that it's a better car for a lot more reasons than its FR layout. For starters, it's a better car because it comes from a family of cars that were built for the street, not just to post high numbers on paper by revving rediculously high. (cough S2000 cough)

[SilviaS14KA24DE]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by masticatingcow "]richd, the FC is short for chassis code FC3D, or the second-generation Mazda RX-7

FC3S next gen is FD3S

[masticatingcow]

Pardon my typo. SilviaS14KA24DE is right, it's FC3S. Silvia, I hope you don't spend all night searching for my typos... there are probably a lot of them!

[240sxin]

damn guys, this has to be one of the better threads ive read, no one has flamed each other, you all came with good info, and even tho i own a 240 i was thinking about geting a 2003 vw gti 1.8t and you guys kinda made me think more if that is such a good idea, and i mean that in a good way. Im not looking for any help in my decision, i was just stating that this thread was very infomative and an all around good thread. Take it easy guy.~Jon

[tegls1]

Yes this site is a whole lot better than some others I have been to. I like that people actually go the extra mile to explain them selve then just flaming you.

I like the high reving engine because I kind of got used to it. I will say that you are right hondas/acuras tend to go a little crazy with the RPMS. EG. 9000rpms for the s2000 is alot. Since the car is so expensive most of the people that own them just drive the car to and from work and never use it to it full potencial. I don't even think they even go over 4k with it. I really enjoy driving the 240sx and having the power in streetable range is great. It is just that honda engines are more designed for racing then street. I am not puting down the nissan engine. I am far from that. All Im saying is that If I was in a race I would rather have honda engine under the hood because I will be shifting in redline where the power is and in a nissan engine it starts letting off around there. Im tired of people saing Vtec sucks. I actually think that is was a wonderfull invention. Vtec makes the car have a wider range of power. I actually wish I had it in my car.

[tegls1]

Life really sucks. When you dont have money that is when you find all the best deals on cars. Now that I have the money I cant find cra p. I want a 240sx so bad but I cant find one anywhere around here.

[fanloi]

and honda car only have a good power on high rpm, it is suck

[cys19]

fanloi i want to buy your 240sx

[fanloi]

someone is selling the same one for 9000 at zlivia.net. take a look in there

[masticatingcow]

tegls1 -- Be patient, my friend. I'm sure something will work out for you and you'll have money AND a good deal on a car at the same time.

As for Honda's engines being designed for racing, yeah, I'd agree that they are hard to beat above 7000 RPM. But I'm not sure if I understand how Nissan's comparitively low-revving engines are somehow lacking on the track. I don't think that Nissan's engines run out of power any faster than Honda's. You're thinking in straight numbers, comparing 9000 RPM to 6000 RPM powerband limits without considering driving dynamics. When you shift a Honda from 9000 RPM, doesn't it drop to around 7000 RPM? (VERY rough estimate... sorry if I'm off.) Well, in a Nissan, revs drop to around 4000 RPM from 6000. I know my examples are a little shakey, but what I'm suggesting is that Honda powerbands and Nissan powerbands, while totally different on the tach, translate fairly equally to the road. When we discuss streetable powerbands, I'm talking about a powerband well within reasonable reach, if you get what I'm saying. Like, it's more realistic to have power on tap as early as 3500-4000 RPM because it literally takes less time to get there than if you're going all the way up to 6000-7000 for similar power. Effective power, I guess you could call it.

[cory2081]

Hondas do have effective power when racing from a roll. From a stop light, they suck. Now, they may catch up on top end, but, for the most part, they don't make good torque and if they do, they have major traction problems. VTEC is a great invention, it was actually designed by Honda for their cars to get good gas mileage and be able to make good HP at the same time. A good street car will start making power between 3-4 and keep it up to 6-7. Driving an S2000 is like driving a stock 240 with a T88, just takes too long for the power to come on. lol

[drifter_for_life06]

i would get a 240sx over anything(i.e. teg prelude) but thats just my opinion, i want drift so i want RWD, i want a Nissan so i get 240sx. thats my main reasons, plus i want an SR

[tegls1]

I didn't mean for it to come out that way. I ment to say that Nissan engine are not as race engineered as Honda engines. if the 240sx lot power before redline it would suck really bad and I know nissan is not that stupid to do that. honda transmissions have shorter gears then nissan trannys that is why they use the high revving engine so much. It is also better in a way for racing not the street. It sucks on the street. I hate changing gears every other second. I really like having usable power on the street. Ablout the honda engine have traction problems with too more torque that is so true. I cant even get out of my driveway with out pealing out a bit. Its even worst when it rains.

[drifter_for_life06]

i donno about that, but w/e floats man, all the honda ivics, integras and accords around here blow teh big one, they can barely spin their tires when they try to

[Repo Man]

i donno about that, but w/e floats man, all the honda ivics, integras and accords around here blow teh big one, they can barely spin their tires when they try to

[drifter_for_life06]

repo man what are you trying to say?