1990 240SX Autocross Build (DSP)

[WI_S14_Goldie]

just curious...is a coilover set-up of 8/6 or 8/10 too stiff for autocrossing?? I've talked a few guys who autocross and most of them run a spring/shock combo...

[DJButton]

Let me know if the teflon tape doesn't fix that leak I have access to AN fittings etc and sell high pressure lines, can try and help you out if you need it. Rear 1/4's don't look bad at all considering it was BFH work!

[mirochuki13]

Looking good. Nice job on the rear fenders. I'm not sure if you mentioned this, but what did you use for relocating the air intake? Did you make your own pipe, or does someone sell it?

[hai1206vn]

Matt, good job with the engine bay. What exhaust are you running?

I'll see you at RIT in a few weeks! got an s14 recently

If you want suspension adjustability without spherical bearing, i suggest SPC performance parts http://www.racinglab.com/spc-camber-kit-089.html (you can find individual components on ebay easily)

They make tension rods, camber plates, rear camber, rear toe, rear traction links, all adjustable with stiff rubber bushing. I've tried the tension rods and been impressed so far. I'm gonna get the complete rear eventually.
Modified by hai1206vn at 8:12 PM 4/1/2008

[blabla]

I would NOT recommend their camber plate - unless they updated the design...bearings died in 2 month (daily driven its true but the teins I have in there now have held up for a year and they still look new) - the hole where the top of your shock is supposed to slide thought was not wide enough - and its made of some really mushi aluminum.

[hai1206vn]

that's good to know. I just thought it might be useful for him since he's running konis. I'm leaning toward coilovers so I won't need that

[nissanman04]

just curious...is a coilover set-up of 8/6 or 8/10 too stiff for autocrossing?? I've talked a few guys who autocross and most of them run a spring/shock combo...

Nope, those will be ok, especially if you have some really grippy tires. The rates I'm using equate to 9.8 kg/mm front and 8 kg/mm rear.

Let me know if the teflon tape doesn't fix that leak I have access to AN fittings etc and sell high pressure lines, can try and help you out if you need it. Rear 1/4's don't look bad at all considering it was BFH work!

Haha, thanks. Tried the teflon tape and took it for a 30 minute shakedown and no leaks so far.

Looking good. Nice job on the rear fenders. I'm not sure if you mentioned this, but what did you use for relocating the air intake? Did you make your own pipe, or does someone sell it?

Uhh, for now I'm using a 2" dia. PVC pipe with a incorrectly-sized throttle body coupler and a custom duct tape coupler on the MAF. I'll be making an aluminum pipe in the near future, but this works for now. The idle is steady at 900. Ghetto fabulous .

Matt, good job with the engine bay. What exhaust are you running?

I'll see you at RIT in a few weeks! got an s14 recently

If you want suspension adjustability without spherical bearing, i suggest SPC performance parts http://www.racinglab.com/spc-camber-kit-089.html (you can find individual components on ebay easily)

They make tension rods, camber plates, rear camber, rear toe, rear traction links, all adjustable with stiff rubber bushing. I've tried the tension rods and been impressed so far. I'm gonna get the complete rear eventually.

Exhaust is a blitz realize tt (kind of heavy, but it'll do for now). Congrats on the S14, can't wait to see it.

About the suspension arms, even though the bearing is OEM type, the adjustable arm itself is illegal. There is a revision that has been proposed for the 2009 season that will adopt the Street Touring rules for suspension adjustability (which I assume will be passed) which will allow spherical bearings and adjustable arms.

that's good to know. I just thought it might be useful for him since he's running konis. I'm leaning toward coilovers so I won't need that

I have the Tein camber plates already, so that's been taken care of...

[sloweighty]

so how are those springs feel, do they feel bouncy or are they smooth

[scole]

I have the Tein camber plates already, so that's been taken care of...

I've heard that the tein camber plates end up being ~1" taller compared to the cusco plates. If that's true, switching to the cusco would get you a bit more shock travel when lowered.

[nissanman04]

so how are those springs feel, do they feel bouncy or are they smooth

They are definitely firm, but not nearly as bouncy as the megans I had on there before. The koni dampers feel great so far.

I've heard that the tein camber plates end up being ~1" taller compared to the cusco plates. If that's true, switching to the cusco would get you a bit more shock travel when lowered.

Hmm...interesting point. That would help the issue a bit, but it's a little late now I suppose.

[Automato]

nice buildup for autocross. i go to school at RIT and will be running in the events this year as well. i will be running in SM with my black sileighty and i will get absolutely rocked because of in-experience and a setup that lacks quite a bit. its all fun and games for me though, as some other ppl said earlier, maybe someday i will build my car to be competitive in my class. for now its just my dd that i can enjoy on track days. see'ya later this month.

[nissanman04]

nice buildup for autocross. i go to school at RIT and will be running in the events this year as well. i will be running in SM with my black sileighty and i will get absolutely rocked because of in-experience and a setup that lacks quite a bit. its all fun and games for me though, as some other ppl said earlier, maybe someday i will build my car to be competitive in my class. for now its just my dd that i can enjoy on track days. see'ya later this month.

Cool...I've seen your car around campus and at pep boys once last week. Looks good!

[sloweighty]

so where did you get those springs and what brand name are they

[nissanman04]

so where did you get those springs and what brand name are they

http://www.ground-control-stor...II=73

Ground Control uses Eibach springs...

[nissanman04]

Had my spring perches welded on yesterday. Just need to decide on a ride height, get an alignment and the car will be ready to go.

[nissanman04]

I have been curious how much my car actually weighs for a while, and I finally found a scale to put it on. 2780 w/ me in it and 3/4 tank of gas...

Around 2600 wet isn't too bad...and once I get rid of the stock seats and my big exhaust it should be even better. A smaller battery wouldn't hurt either. I want to go back w/ a full tank so I can remove that variable, however.

edit:

Things that have been removed:-a/c-EGR-PAIR Valve-fender liners-windshield washer reservoir-spare tire-intake plastic pieces
Modified by nissanman04 at 11:34 PM 4/6/2008

[mesonerz]

very nice...

[nissanman04]

So I finally got the car aligned (as much as possible at least). The front is now at the specs I gave to the technician, and the rear is relatively close...(wanted 3* front camber, 1/16" total front toe out, 2* rear camber, zero rear toe)

Before:

Front Left Camber: -1.7*Front Left Toe: 3/16" in

Front Right Camber: -2.0*Front Right Toe: 5/32" out

Total Front Toe: 1/32" in

Rear Left Camber:-2.5*Rear Left Toe:1/8" out

Rear Right Camber:-2.0*Rear Right Toe:1/16"out

Total Rear Toe: 11/32" out

After:

Front Left Camber: -3.0*Front Left Toe: 1/32" in

Front Right Camber: -3.0*Front Right Toe: 1/32" out

Total Front Toe: 1/16" out

Rear Left Camber:-2.1*Rear Left Toe:1/8" out

Rear Right Camber:-1.9*Rear Right Toe:1/16"out

Total Rear Toe: 3/16" out

I'd rather have less toe in the rear, but since I have pretty much zero adjustability in back, I am pretty satisfied. I noticed the car would understeer at the limit before, and for the small amount of time that I've driven on the new settings, that understeer has gone away for the most part...it feels really good. I can't wait to actually test this setup out in two weeks.

Oh, I weighed the car w/ a full tank and driver(I weigh 170lbs)...2860+-20lbs in case anyone is curious, which is about what I expected.

[onosqv]

Never seen a setup w/ toe out in the rear for rwd vehicles, let me know how that works out for you.

[nissanman04]

Never seen a setup w/ toe out in the rear for rwd vehicles, let me know how that works out for you.

Haha, yeah, that's not on purpose...I can't use adjustable toe links. I actually didn't want any toe back there. At least there's not as much now as there was previously.

[onosqv]

Yea, class rules suck don't they

You can try what some guys have done w/ mild success (of course, you just got an alignment, so maybe not), but if you unbolt the suspension parts - i.e. traction arm, ruca, & toe, sometimes you can move the suspension - in this case, moving the spindle in toward the front & out toward the rear, thereby increasing the tendency to toe in.

Did your car ever get rear ended or something?

From both my 240's & friends' 240's, w/ stock toe arms, no matter what height the car, we never had a problem w/ getting toe in - no one ever had toe out. Of course, I think most of us had/have ruca's, so that may have something to do w/ it.

[nissanman04]

Yea, class rules suck don't they

You can try what some guys have done w/ mild success (of course, you just got an alignment, so maybe not), but if you unbolt the suspension parts - i.e. traction arm, ruca, & toe, sometimes you can move the suspension - in this case, moving the spindle in toward the front & out toward the rear, thereby increasing the tendency to toe in.

Did your car ever get rear ended or something?

From both my 240's & friends' 240's, w/ stock toe arms, no matter what height the car, we never had a problem w/ getting toe in - no one ever had toe out. Of course, I think most of us had/have ruca's, so that may have something to do w/ it.

what if I -hypothetically- hit a concrete barrier w/ the pass. rear corner last year? (hypothetically of course, that scuff on the bumper there is just a coincidence)

[nissanman04]

After adjusting front ride height + alignment:







The front fenders may need some more massaging to prevent any rubbing...

[Soravia]

Adusting the car too much, doesn't that defeat the purpose of driving skills?

[hai1206vn]

Adusting the car too much, doesn't that defeat the purpose of driving skills?

You mean everyone should compete in stock class then?

[Soravia]

I meant that for toe/camber adjustments to make a car corner better while decreasing the ability to go faster on straight lines, etc.

It's like the car is being tailored to go around the cones and not the driver doing it. That's how I feel like anyway. Especially because this is not really about who is winning what position but about making the best time a driver can get with his skill.

But that's my view of autocross anyway.

[onosqv]

I meant that for toe/camber adjustments to make a car corner better while decreasing the ability to go faster on straight lines, etc.

It's like the car is being tailored to go around the cones and not the driver doing it. That's how I feel like anyway. Especially because this is not really about who is winning what position but about making the best time a driver can get with his skill.

But that's my view of autocross anyway.

All depends on the way you drive... for the most part, alignment settings don't make a bad driver faster at all; however, a good driver can benefit from it.

From my point-of-view, driving more cars and/or having more exposure to different settings/tires/suspension/etc only help the driver become a better overall driver.

Being able to feel, adapt, and grow with the car through small things like alignment change could only help the driver.

Personally, I've been through several different types of tires, several different alignments, several cars (rwd & fwd), and many different suspension setups. I've learned A LOT from each and every setup, whether it was for the better or worse of the car.

I don't feel I would have improved as much as I did if I had kept the same exact car w/ the same exact setup these past 2+ years. I think it's very narrow-minded to think of getting something such as an alignment as HURTING driving skill.

[nissanman04]

Adusting the car too much, doesn't that defeat the purpose of driving skills?

I meant that for toe/camber adjustments to make a car corner better while decreasing the ability to go faster on straight lines, etc.

It's like the car is being tailored to go around the cones and not the driver doing it. That's how I feel like anyway. Especially because this is not really about who is winning what position but about making the best time a driver can get with his skill.

But that's my view of autocross anyway.

Umm...what? I don't understand your thinking on the subject. Just because I am making setup changes to my car doesn't mean that I am letting the car do all the work for me. What if these settings actually make the car perform worse than before? I have no idea what the car will do, honestly. It is all a learning experience. The attempt to make the car have better ultimate grip is an attempt to get faster times, yes, but it is also more fun to drive a car that has a higher limit. In some cases, it is more difficult to drive a car that is prepared in this fashion, so I may not actually be making it easier on myself.

Do I expect to be competitive in this car? Maybe regionally, but not much further than that. Will I improve my driving this year in this car? Without a doubt. Will I have fun driving it? Of course, that is why I choose to participate in (and spend rediculous sums of money on) this activity.

In terms of decreasing straight-line performance to to alignment changes, I highly doubt that will be an issue, seeing that the national champion STS car a couple years ago was running 4.5* of camber in front and 2.5* in the rear. The amount of time a car is moving straight on a course is minimal.

[mirochuki13]

That STS 240 was nuts.

The simple explanation about driving skill/car setup in autocross is that when the competitors are all really good (or even pretty good), they'll all run about the same time or within a few tenths of each other (if they were in equally prepared cars). So car preparation is a pretty big factor if you want to win, especially at a national level. If you look at the people winning national championships, they're all very good at driving AND also very good at building cars.

[nissanman04]

So the first event in our region is this sunday, and the car is driveable at least. I'm still waiting on a seat (Corbeau FX1 Pro), which should come next week. I have my harness in already with the stock seat, which should decrease the amount that I have to brace myself with my arms and left leg during cornering, at least a little bit. I have still retained the stock restraint system for street driving, since I imagine the harness would be terribly uncomfortable on long drives, and simply not practical on the street. I'm still waiting on money for r-comps, so I may run in the road tire class for this event, I haven't decided yet. I'm not sure how bad the SP index will screw me. I also picked up a front lip for $10 at a junkyard today. It's pretty scratched up, but then again so is my car. I also snagged another one that needs a little bit more work.

Well, here are some pics of the car with my mad tyte magnets. Each one is probably worth about 5 hp...