Whos got the most powerfull NA KA?

[Bigvinnie]

Looks partially half weighted to me, not quite a fully counter weighed......

You know there are 2 types crank shafts for the L20 engine????


Modified by Bigvinnie at 7:11 PM 3/18/2007

[nevermore82]

Well.. I have been reading this post and i have to say... i might just be dreaming but im pretty confident that i am going to get 200+ hp out of my ka24de... i made a list the other day.. i got on every site i could think of and wrote down every part my little heart desires.. lol and here’s what i came up with..engine internals (cams, pistons etc. etc.) : $4,377engine parts (pulleys, headers, exhaust etc. etc.) $5,552Transmission (new trans, lsd, clutch kit etc. etc.) $4,046Not to mention another $10,000 on brakes, suspension, and bodyNow if i don’t make atlases 200hp with that ill kill myself.. lolanyways... i am hoping to have all this done someday... im not rich.. im dirt poor... but i have always wanted something like this.. and im going to work hard for it!But anyways im planning on making around 300 hp n/a on a ka24de in a 1990 240 hatch...Its like some ppl have already said... its about the amount of money you are willing to spend and the amount of time u are willing to put in....

also someone said something about putting a 350 in a 240.... did anyone see that episode of pinks where someone had a 350 (i think) powered 240?i cant remember who one but it was pretty cool... not something i would ever do though...great post!Later, J

[240ka24]

nvrmore, those #rs sound a bit high. you well surpass 200 easily with $4g's. you dont need pulleys but you do need a header that complements your engine internals. I have total confidence in you. peace.

[Bigvinnie]

I hope that an electric dual fan is in that list some where. I don't know any high rev and performance 4 banger that uses belt driven fan/clutch...Throttle response is better with out it.I finally have my FAL 220 coming in!!!!!!

[240ka24]

vin, whats a fal220?

[Shift_Kouki]

Considering that most out there do not have race team budgets, and have little desire to go past 7k RPM.

Where could a layman find the info / math regarding how to develop an intake and exhaust manifolds to compliment stock internals?

And perhaps SOHC Pistons and a 240/232 cam duration setup in our KA24DE's... Although the lift and duration of an altima cam is very close to stock, and from reading this thread, comp ratio has little to do with intake and exhaust calculations.

[WDRacing]

Glad to see we have some more members coming up with different idea's. However, try not to come across as an arrogant know it all when your very first idea was actually completely wrong...lol. Check your info before you post anything.

The KA24DE isn't going to see 200WHP...

[Shift_Kouki]

Glad to see we have some more members coming up with different idea's. However, try not to come across as an arrogant know it all when your very first idea was actually completely wrong...lol. Check your info before you post anything.

The KA24DE isn't going to see 200WHP...

I hope that was not directed at me. I did not mean to come across as arrogant. I just thought that if some more members has access to the information on designing things for given RPM ranges, that perhaps fresh ideas would come around more often and make for more interesting discussion regarding the NA KA.

Personally, I do not care weather or not I see 200 WHP out of my KA... But I would like to know of any ways to keep it pulling strong out to 6.5 or 7k. So far I know of a few things, but most are beyond my budget. Regardless I would still like to know to satisfy the old curiosity.

[mksue3240sx]

Just revisiting the header issue, I think the problem is no one has researched a high rpm header intake combo. And with alot of cheap turbo kits available, there is not alot of motivation to do so.

[WDRacing]

I hope that was not directed at me.

No way man. If you look at the username the reply is to, you'll see who I'm talking to. I'll never stifle any creative idea's, I just want to make sure things are mostly factual. I don't want to see a noob go out and buy a SR20 crank expecting it to be a drop in for the KA.

WD

[TurboDaytona]

I never said it would drop right in. Sorry If I am still fairly new to nissan, But I have been building engines for about 8 years. The questions I asked the guys about the SR crank were about length and bore spacing. They said they were the same, So naturaly I assume that is true. You would have to weld on to the main journals and make them bigger and if you wanted to de-stroke just grind down the rod journals by a couple thousandths and round an oversized bearing.

[WDRacing]

Reguardless...the KA isn't seeing 200WHP in NA form. In fact, it's almost economically retarded to even attempt it. After all, in the end you still have a extremely heavy 2.4 liter, or smaller if you destroke it. So there is no real reason to even attempt it, which is why no one has actually done it.

Why would you ever spend close to 10,000 on a motor to get 200WHP? When that same 10G's will net you almost limitless power in a boosted application. Your main issues become the block splitting at or around 750whp.

WD

[Bigvinnie]

vin, whats a fal220?

Flex A lite electric dual fan. It blows 2500CFM, and is a universal bolt on for mostly all imports with minimum radiator span of 15" hiegth, and a 26" width. Summitracing has this under part number FLX-220b....Very nice add on I recommend it over aluminum pulley's, stock pulley's are ment to dampen belt slap, and vibration from interfering with the crank shaft, and additional wear and tear to piston rings. I also like to see the use of aluminum flywheels, and aluminum drive shafts, these items drop alot of the drive train degredation down and more power to the wheels. It's a nice way to fool the dyno to show over 180whp with bolt on's on a ka.

[AZhitman]

I think some people just spout off lists of parts to look like "experts".

You can build / modify the KA 'til you're blue in the face and your bank account is depleted.

I'll find a 200K mile KA, add a POS turbo kit with 8 psi of boost and proceed to thump the piss out of anyone's "built" N/A DOHC KA.

[240ka24]

wd, there are na kade's that are around 400hp(crank or wheel, who cares) range. You keep saying that noone has passed 200. Its been done, lets try to convince everyone to do it! Maybe tell the people that its hard and may cost alittle but dont tell everyone its impossible and its gonna cost $10,000, and some say 10,000rpm. peace.

shift, I think you need to get the cams(bigger lift/ duration) and the valvetrain to rev to 8000rpm(way too much), bump your compression to whatever gas you can afford/obtain. Burns can design(on paper) a header for you according to your engine specs, and as for intake, hell, make your own or keep altering a stock intake keeping it long and welding a plenum and keep shortening it. then when you find the right length get a ne2w one and cut to length.

[WDRacing]

wd, there are na kade's that are around 400hp(crank or wheel, who cares) range. You keep saying that noone has passed 200. Its been done, lets try to convince everyone to do it!

Um...yeah, I said it because its true...it AINT been done homie...thats fact. And definitly not to 400. Say another absurd lie like that and I'll add you to the members to watch list.

WD

[Shift_Kouki]

400 HP, NA?? I don't want to play that game

And 240ka24, I dont want 8k... I think i said that earlier, dont know why though But I would like to increase the area under the old dyno curve from 5k out to about 6.5k or 7k... without loosing too much low end (although i think that will be a necessary sacrifice). But that is my target, as i feel the stock internals can take those revs without much issue.

Could anyone tell me how to figure out (with math / simulations) how to figure out the ratio of lengths for headers, overall exhaust length, intake tube, plenum, and intake mani. (I think i may have goofed there... Is the intake plenum the same thing as the intake manifold??)

[AZhitman]

wd, there are na kade's that are around 400hp(crank or wheel, who cares) range. You keep saying that noone has passed 200. Its been done, lets try to convince everyone to do it! Maybe tell the people that its hard and may cost alittle but dont tell everyone its impossible and its gonna cost $10,000, and some say 10,000rpm. peace.

Wrong-o-matic.

We've been THE authority on 240sx's since 1997, and it's never been done.

Period.

End of story.

[neverlift]

dang greg had to come and lay it down a few times and still we see dohc n/a dreamers....

Glad I have a sohc...

[Shift_Kouki]

Yeah, I dream of more power. A lot of people do, but i pulled my head out of my as$ a while ago.

Any advice on how to 'tune' the intake and exhaust manifolds to a specific RPM?? My goal is to know how to pick / design both the intake and exhaust manifold to be tuned for the same RPM so things work with each other instead of against each other like i think might be happening.

But as a newb, i don't really know if my ideas are reasonable or stupid and not at all what is needed.

[240ka24]

shift, I was mentioning about 8000rpm to compensate for mis-shifts during dragracing if your into that kind of stuff. I seriously think its not tooo far a stretch to run200hp. man, just give it a try.

AZ and WD, what kind of power do you think the nissan offroad stadium trucks run on the DE? im thinking over 198hp.

az/wd, in your opinion what do you think is stopping the ka from making 200hp.

[WDRacing]

shift, I was mentioning about 8000rpm to compensate for mis-shifts during dragracing if your into that kind of stuff. I seriously think its not tooo far a stretch to run200hp. man, just give it a try.

AZ and WD, what kind of power do you think the nissan offroad stadium trucks run on the DE? im thinking over 198hp.

az/wd, in your opinion what do you think is stopping the ka from making 200hp.

Show me one running a KA24DE.

I'm only repeating what I've said 50 times already. There are two methods for increasing horsepower besides adding boost. Increasing cubic inches or adding rpm. The KA is about as big as it's going to get, because it already has a large stroke. Because of said large stroke you can't spin the motor high enough to make any amount of power.

WD

[mksue3240sx]

That about sums it up

[240ka24]

increased airflow and maximizing combustion are the 2 things that come to mind. Both can be done without boost, without increasing cubic inches and or increasing rpm although those would help. btw, the kade has the same stroke as the kae and z24's and they have been made to pass 200hp.

[WDRacing]

I'm very familiar with thermo dynamics and flow design. You are correct in saying the improve the VE of the motor. But the 2 key players are CC's and RPM. The rest of the modifications are built around those two things. Consider this, we'll need high lift/dur cams. High lift/dur cams require high rpm to work at there full potential. This can't be done if we are going the route of increasing the stroke and bore because the piston speeds and rod loading will simply break things.

The main point of this entire thread is that no one has done it yet. Could it be done, like I said before maybe. But why in the world would you even bother. It's the heaviest 4 cyl made by Nissan. It's one of the worst designs in that era compared to the CA, SR and RB series and I hate to keep falling back on this, but you can make your 200WHP for $1000 in turbo parts right now.

So the 200WHP KA is basically a mute point. In then end you'll have an un driveable POS that makes no power under 6500. Definitly not somthing I'd ever consider focusing my time and energy on.

As an example, drive any VTEC motor using only the second cam profile...its an ugly thing.

WD

[Shift_Kouki]

Out of curiosity, what RPM range are the hot-shot headers designed for??And could you make an intake manifold in a similar 1-2-4 manner to work with the same RPM range??

Does anyone see what I'm getting at here when coupled with the right cam for the new flow rates??

[WDRacing]

Think of everything as a function of rpm. Each part will function better at low, mid or top end. Your goal is to match all three parts. Most headers for the KA are all the same in theory and function. It would take a custom equal length and tuned collector to make any serious difference. You just want the header to be able to scavenge the exhaust out as fast and efficiently as possible at all rpms. The cam and intake on the other hand need to be matched. Long runner intakes suck for high rpm power. SO a short runner intake mani, like the Honda's use would be best. Matched with a cam that comes alive in the upper rpm range and you have a winning combo.

WD

[Kevin Johnson]

Vin - I'm running the Biki and love it, I've not noticed any issues with mine...

Also, I'll likely never recommend I-J to anyone. Their CS is horrible, and the owner was absolutely no help. I got my parts, but waited WAY too long... I also spent 8 hours in the machine shop modifying mine.

DJ, hit me up on email, i'll shoot you his #.

Thanks for that feedback, Greg. I have a few orders in house for the KA products at present and I think that will be it. I will try to focus on developing products for some of the other engines that I have backed up here.

Edit: That was almost a year ago -- not once did you bother to pick up the phone or email me with why you had to modify yours. I would have gladly made you another at no charge.
Modified by Kevin Johnson at 6:49 AM 3/22/2007

[Kevin Johnson]

Looks partially half weighted to me, not quite a fully counter weighed......

You know there are 2 types crank shafts for the L20 engine????

Modified by Bigvinnie at 7:11 PM 3/18/2007

Hi Vinnie,

The crank in that photo is fully counterweighted -- the engine was lent to me by SCCA member Paul Neal.

[Kevin Johnson]

Well, like I've said, over and over and over and over and over... We've been here for 10 years.

If someone has made 200+ hp with a DOHC N/A KA, then they're either hiding under a rock (or are full of crap).

The best builders in the Nissan business have YET to attain 200 hp, so he should be happy to pop in and say HI. He'd be a hero if you're right....

I would be really surprised if no-one has, Greg. Back when I was into Renault engines, Comptech modified the pushrod NA 1400 Sierra block wedge head engine found in the R-9 (Alliance) to put out 175 hp. That was mid 1980s. With a cross flow head that would have been a piece of cake, I think. Maybe you should talk to Kas and get some ideas from someone that has been in the game a bit longer.