Dropped the girdle on the one in my car, and the truck main caps are sufficiently beefy. This was on recommendation from the machine shop, apparently they were also concerned about deformation of the block post-bore... (?)

KJ, can you elaborate on the vacuum issue? It's a 2-ring design, BTW. You lost me somewhere in there....

AZhitman wrote:Dropped the girdle on the one in my car, and the truck main caps are sufficiently beefy. This was on recommendation from the machine shop, apparently they were also concerned about deformation of the block post-bore... (?)

KJ, can you elaborate on the vacuum issue? It's a 2-ring design, BTW. You lost me somewhere in there....

Torquing a girdle into place will definitely shift things around on the block. If you are boring for an engine with a girdle then the girdle should be in place. Similarly for an engine that is converting over from a girdle to main caps. Lots of discussion re this on the Engineering Tips forum.

I want to say that the Speed Talk forum is where a number of pro builders weighed in on what level of vacuum is sufficient to "activate" low tension rings so that oil does not leak past and become a detonation issue. Five inches steady seemed to be agreed upon. You'll need a serious vacuum source for constant duty like those made by Moroso. GZ Motorsports is also heavily into this item.

You will need to consult directly with a top level ring manufacturer about what is appropriate for your engine with that sort of mod. There are some significant gains available.

neverlift wrote:but all that comes back to the whole why spend so much when an efficient turbo kit can produce more then said setup....

You're right, it may be cheaper. But this is not a thread about which is more cost effective i think. I mean, I like this topic... and its interesting to me to see all the places people can extract that little bit more out of a motor w/o adding some sort of forced induction / nitrous.

I myself will likely have to stop improving my NA output at a 240/232 cam setup, with SOHC pistons, and all the standard bolt ons. But what a college student can afford and what he wants don't need to be the same things right?

I frequently wonder about getting a second motor and taking it to a machine shop... where a lot of my ideas are more likely to come through. -- But in all honesty I think its going to be me doing engine maintenance this summer and dropping in a used intake cam and new pistons.

AZhitman wrote:Shift_Kouki: In theory, everything you say SHOULD make more power, and I think you're on the right track.

However, I (and several others) have... etc... ...(great stuff, but no need to read twice and take up space)

Thanks, its good to know I'm on the right track... even if for me its only theoretical.

Shift_Kouki wrote: But in all honesty I think its going to be me doing engine maintenance this summer and dropping in a used intake cam and new pistons.

That's OK, I like hanging out with those people more anyways.

AZhitman wrote:Shift_Kouki: How to get the DOHC up over 7K rpms? If an SR can be built to see 9K, and a VH can withstand 8K (stock), certainly the same principles should be applicable to the KA valvetrain.

As far as valve train is concerned it is just a duplicate of the CA18det,VG30de, and RBdet's. Which I have seen far surpass a 8000RPM redline. In fact KA uses the same cam durations as the CA(well almost).

The problem lies within its upward momentum, rod length, and the fact that the crank shaft is only half weighted. A fully counter weighed crank allows for less torsional stress. Half weighted cranks usually don't take under stress well once the momentum and inertia come into play. Once the RPM is exceeding 5000RPM the upward momentum literally wants to flex the crank shaft. One reason why Nissan went with a fully forged crank rather than a casted crank that the VG use. So when you see the power drop a 5500~6000RPM and you see it drop significantly after 6000RPM it is because the rod assembly is literally starting to destroy it self from the upward momentum of piston and rod in stroke 2.KA is pretty much a cheap after market copy of an FJ24 which used a fullycounterweighed crank. Valve train was very similar. It was able to achieve over a 8500RPM redline there was just a sliht difference between it's rod stroke ratio.

You all get off topic to much....Anyways... im not saying and allot of ppl are not saying that there is a 200+ hp ka engine.. except some... 400hp na? I dont believe that at all.. but i do believe it is possible to reach 200hp.. i didn’t just make a list of parts just to sound like a know it all... because im not.. so shut up.. ha-ha. I made that list cause it is my dream list and i believe with all that i can make 200+ now im not saying that i am going to buy a bunch of boltons and make 200.. that is imposable... im talking about head and block porting of the intake and exhaust openings reshaping of the combustion chamber... porting the heads, valve job and such.. also porting honing and extruding of the intake manifold... and knife edging the crank as well.. someone also mentioned the long stroke and the heaviness of the ka's engine.. i know all of this already... and u do need to take that into concentration when trying to up the ka to 200hp.. cause those are 2 major road blocks. there’s nothing you can really do about the weight except making your car lighter with fiberglass and carbon fiber and such.. but u can knife edge your crank to free up a little hp, rpms, and weight.. also will put less stress on your rods.. i herd that was a big problem with ka's.. rods breaking from high revving caused from such a long stroke and such... anyways i think it can happen and im going to try my hardest to get mine up and over 200.. i dont mind spending money.. i have nothing else to spend my money on... and i love my car!Also the turbo argument that some are starting... hopefully it ends with me saying this...Yes you can make big power with less money with the right turbo blah blah blah... and i love turbos.. but.. one cannot just simply slap a turbo in a 18 - 12 year old car with 80,000 - 100,000+ miles on in without first rebuilding or modifying something.... well you can... but why the hell would you? sooner or later your going to blow it unless u have taken very very good care of your car.. and then your $1,000 turbo will become a $3,000+ mistake... so anyways yeah that’s all i got to say about that...

AZhitman wrote:-snip-KJ, can you elaborate on the vacuum issue? It's a 2-ring design, BTW. You lost me somewhere in there....

Sorry about not having time to look into this yesterday. Are you sure the KA24DE is a two ring design? This is a pic I pulled off the internet from NissanPerformanceMag:



That is a three ring pack.

Here is what I mean -- this is a pic of a Formula 1 Ferrari piston; two ring pack:



You will often see this level of technology in new high output motorcycle engines.
Modified by Kevin Johnson at 3:53 AM 3/24/2007

Bigvinnie wrote:
As far as valve train is concerned it is just a duplicate of the CA18det,VG30de, and RBdet's. Which I have seen far surpass a 8000RPM redline. In fact KA uses the same cam durations as the CA(well almost).

The problem lies within its upward momentum, rod length, and the fact that the crank shaft is only half weighted. A fully counter weighed crank allows for less torsional stress. Half weighted cranks usually don't take under stress well once the momentum and inertia come into play. Once the RPM is exceeding 5000RPM the upward momentum literally wants to flex the crank shaft. One reason why Nissan went with a fully forged crank rather than a casted crank that the VG use. So when you see the power drop a 5500~6000RPM and you see it drop significantly after 6000RPM it is because the rod assembly is literally starting to destroy it self from the upward momentum of piston and rod in stroke 2.KA is pretty much a cheap after market copy of an FJ24 which used a fullycounterweighed crank. Valve train was very similar. It was able to achieve over a 8500RPM redline there was just a sliht difference between it's rod stroke ratio.

Hey Vinnie,

Just spent a couple hours researching this -- multiple loops. Anyway, I come back repeatedly to your other posts regarding the need for a fully counterweighted crank -- your quest for the Grail, that is.

Honest, I didn't know about your posts when I recommended using a fully counterweighted crank like in the Dodge engine (and as I see in the "vintage" FJ-24).

Full stop, though.

Why are people saying there have not been 200 whp KA24DE engines when it sure sounds like Nismo built at least one that redlined near 9k? Is there seriously some doubt about what sort of power it put out?

Another lead to follow -- has anyone talked to Ed Pink about possible NA engines that used his rotating assembly and didn't exceed 200 whp? Seems like that would be a joke to Ed.

You're holding out on us, Vinnie.

Sounds like $^3 is the real issue. Gotta get back to work now.

My bad on the rings - Sleep deprivation > me.

I've not heard of Nissan Motorsports doing anything special with the DOHC KA's.

(Not saying it doesn't exist, so let's not go there - I'm simply stating that given the MASSIVE influx of information contributed by 60K members over a long span of time, I don't recall ever seeing anything about it... )

I know there were some special-application DE's built for the CORR series, and of course the screamer single-cams that have made their way into several different applications...

Other than those CORR engines, Pink's involvement appears to have been limited to the short-lived Infiniti Indy program.

Mr. Honsowetz would be the one to talk to - I believe he was with Nissan's Motorsports diision for something like 30 years...

Here's a homework project: Let's have someone research contact information, assemble a list of interview questions, get in touch with Mr. Honsowetz, and interview him via phone. I'll make it a front-page article, and the author will get some cool goodies... Contact me if you're interested so that I can verify your "contributing editor" status.

AZhitman wrote:My bad on the rings - Sleep deprivation > me.

I've not heard of Nissan Motorsports doing anything special with the DOHC KA's.

(Not saying it doesn't exist, so let's not go there - I'm simply stating that given the MASSIVE influx of information contributed by 60K members over a long span of time, I don't recall ever seeing anything about it... ... )

Ok -- I understand. (note: I pulled that info from the 60,000 members on NICOclub zerothread?id=149074 -- came right up on Google)

Something else that came up this morning, though. Samantha pulled your order from last May with your info from the phone call and I looked through all the email correspondance related to it. In fact you double-checked the next day with an email to make sure we were making a scraper and tray for the KA24DE. You mentioned that your shop pulled the girdle and used the beefy truck main caps earlier in this thread.

That's a pretty important bit of information. Why? Because you ordered a scraper and windage tray for the KA24DE without saying anything about this. The girdle has at least two different bolt pad heights but I chose five with the same height -- 53.5mm.

The truck caps (at least the ones I pulled off a truck motor) have a height of 50mm. That means if you install the tray for the DE on truck caps it will be 3.5mm closer, which is a huge amount with that tray.

This is exactly why I took the time last year to design a completely different framework for people doing this conversion or running a tray on a truck engine.

I can easily see why your shop would have had to spend 8 hours installing the tray.

Now some people slice out the girdle arms. That's different too. I also took the time to develop a completely different tray framework for that version too. Without the arms in place there is more room for the tray to extend towards the block. There is yet another version for the KA24E with the girdle -- the interior of the pan is different.

Maybe the shop did not realize all this -- I don't know. Maybe they realized part way in. I don't know. Maybe they did install it on a girdle and somehow spent 8 hours adjusting it and the scraper. I don't know. It just sounds like that was the problem.

Yes, I should have called you but if the above problem is the case then your earlier criticism of the product in this thread is way off base. Yeah, it rhymes.


Modified by Kevin Johnson at 10:28 AM 3/24/2007

Kevin Johnson wrote:
Another lead to follow -- has anyone talked to Ed Pink about possible NA engines that used his rotating assembly and didn't exceed 200 whp? Seems like that would be a joke to Ed.You're holding out on us, Vinnie.

Truly I am not holding out on anybody about this issue and sometimes it makes me upset.The long story short. About a year ago I called ED PINK's office. They had done work with NISMO and CORR off road (Indy Program) to design a fully counter weighed crank, with a new rod and piston assembly. The piston is made somewhat longer and the rod is slightly shorter. The claim from NISMO (Paul ST.Clair) is that this was done to reduce friction along the ring's helping to increase the rev and redline along with the Fullycounterweighted crank. I was unable to get exact rod length or piston length from him.When speaking to ED PINK's office I asked them if they could put this crank/bottom assembly into production. They claim that they sold the design and engineering to NISMO/CORR, and that they could not ever put one into production without the consent of NISMO (basically buying back a patent).Now when speaking to Paul STClair he didn't seem to take me very seriously as a person, then I asked the question "could I afford a bottom assembly of this nature for at least $3000", he said "no way. There are only 20 of these bottom assembly's a year and it cost NISMO a lot more money than that for one assembly". Then Paul had also told me "besides the bottom end of the KA is redesigned and machined to accept the new journals of the crank shaft itself". I had asked him "so an assembly like this is around more in the $8k ballpark". Paul said "something close to that price range".I told Paul I would get back to him. I chose not to just because at first it seemed to pricey for me. I had been beating around the bush for almost 2 years looking for a company that would design a crank for the KA. I came across SCAT ( 3 months before speaking to NISMO). It was a situation that looked just as bleak. When I had called scat if there could be a demand to put a crank like this into production, SCAT claimed that the import market doesn't do very good when it comes to selling crank shaft's and that they don't do good on there Honda cranks. I said well what if I wanted to start this independently, and sell my own crank shafts. SCAT said "not a problem , but it will take a $20,000 deposit for the research and development of just one crank". Now I am a business man I know when I am being hustled, so I have decided to give up on the venture.


Modified by Bigvinnie at 12:41 PM 3/24/2007

With good reason.

Regardless of what we do with this matter, it all leads back to the SAME conclusion:

Making 200 hp on a DOHC KA is an expensive proposition. I don't care HOW you slice it, that's a FACT. Not an opinion, not judgemental, just the straight truth.

KJ, that may well be the case, and if so, I publically and forcefully retract any and all criticism of the actual product. Since I was hospitalized at the time getting gutted like a trout, I didn't have the opportunity to see the product at all - it arrived, was modded, HPC S02-coated, and installed before I returned to the shop.

Let the record reflect that my only beef with the transaction with I-J was the timeliness of delivery and the lack of communication. At present, even that has mostly faded from memory.

AZhitman wrote:With good reason.

Regardless of what we do with this matter, it all leads back to the SAME conclusion:

Making 200 hp on a DOHC KA is an expensive proposition. I don't care HOW you slice it, that's a FACT. Not an opinion, not judgemental, just the straight truth.

Well this is the way I see it Greg. After doing the math, I still have hope for a KA fully counterweighted crank, more than likely it would have to be done through a company such as SCAT rather than NISMO, especially since NISMO does a mark up on production cost. It would take the synergies of 3 performance shops specialized in KA/SR/RB development that would be willing to invest into such a crank for the KA. These companies would have to distribute world wide and have 1500 cranks produced to bring cost down to relatively $1800 dollars a crank.The reality is out there it's just harder than people think to get cooperation amongst companies to go forward with such a venture.I'm so small time I would run out of funds and go bankrupt trying to sell something of this magnitude by myself. The realm of possibility is out there though.

Everyone should always let NISMO know the demand for the KA bottom assembly package. You can email NISMO, [email protected] Paul know it's in demand and things may start rolling..


Modified by Bigvinnie at 1:23 PM 3/24/2007

Chengdu LT Power Engine Industrial Development Co., LTD had a booth at the PRI show.

Xia Xu Bing, Manager is a contact. They're looking for business, that's for sure.

Email: [email protected]

http://www.lte.net.cn/

Bigvinnie wrote:
Well this is the way I see it Greg. After doing the math, I still have hope for a KA fully counterweighted crank, more than likely it would have to be done through a company such as SCAT rather than NISMO, especially since NISMO does a mark up on production cost. It would take the synergies of 3 performance shops specialized in KA/SR/RB development that would be willing to invest into such a crank for the KA. These companies would have to distribute world wide and have 1500 cranks produced to bring cost down to relatively $1800 dollars a crank.The reality is out there it's just harder than people think to get cooperation amongst companies to go forward with such a venture.I'm so small time I would run out of funds and go bankrupt trying to sell something of this magnitude by myself. The realm of possibility is out there though.

Everyone should always let NISMO know the demand for the KA bottom assembly package. You can email NISMO, [email protected] Paul know it's in demand and things may start rolling..

Modified by Bigvinnie at 1:23 PM 3/24/2007

Kevin Johnson wrote:Chengdu LT Power Engine Industrial Development Co., LTD had a booth at the PRI show.

Xia Xu Bing, Manager is a contact. They're looking for business, that's for sure.

Email: [email protected]

http://www.lte.net.cn/

OOOHHH a chinese manufacturer!!!!!!!! I think you are on to something that can bring major cost savings!!!!!

Kevin Johnson wrote:Chengdu LT Power Engine Industrial Development Co., LTD had a booth at the PRI show.

Xia Xu Bing, Manager is a contact. They're looking for business, that's for sure.

Email: [email protected]

http://www.lte.net.cn/

Good info.

I do the SEMA / AAPEX show every year, and there's HUNDREDS of Chinese / Taiwanese machineworks companies there to haggle with... (I'm taking a unique one-off custom strut brace this year to have it replicated cheaply).

If someone can develop a proto, I'm glad to take a day and shop it around.

I just don't think the demand will be there, even if it can be done for less money....

AZhitman wrote:
I just don't think the demand will be there, even if it can be done for less money....

Greg you are insane, the demand is definitely out there!!! Do you really know how many people are rebuilding for KA-T these day's. Cost of KA parts are cheaper than SR. KA comes from a parts bin that dates back as far as the Lseries, people can get titanium retainers, and spring combo's from the CA18det engines. There is so much variety in cheaper parts for the KA compared to the SR. Not to mention the only complaint that I notice for the KA's displacement is it's low rev, which is contributed from it's crappy crank shaft. KA's can use L28flywheels, and NAPSZ clutch's, from the 1980's engines. We also have good guy's like Ivan running 9second 1/4mile times with a crappy halfweighted crank at a fraction of the redline, compared to SR's!Not to mention we can also run 300z transmissions on our KA's, what do sr guy's get that are affordable OEM!!!!If there can be a KA fully counterwiegheted crank available , it just opened the door for a surplus of people that can get one of the better larger displacement, 4 banger, high redline engines on the market!!!!!If chinese manufacturing is a fraction of the cost and you can sell less for a larger profit, it is worth while what american manufacturers can't offer.

Bigvinnie wrote:
Greg you are insane, the demand is definitely out there!!! Do you really know how many people are rebuilding for KA-T these day's. Cost of KA parts are cheaper than SR. KA comes from a parts bin that dates back as far as the Lseries, people can get titanium retainers, and spring combo's from the CA18det engines. There is so much variety in cheaper parts for the KA compared to the SR. Not to mention the only complaint that I notice for the KA's displacement is it's low rev, which is contributed from it's crappy crank shaft. KA's can use L28flywheels, and NAPSZ clutch's, from the 1980's engines. We also have good guy's like Ivan running 9second 1/4mile times with a crappy halfweighted crank at a fraction of the redline, compared to SR's!Not to mention we can also run 300z transmissions on our KA's, what do sr guy's get that are affordable OEM!!!!If there can be a KA fully counterwiegheted crank available , it just opened the door for a surplus of people that can get one of the better larger displacement, 4 banger, high redline engines on the market!!!!!If chinese manufacturing is a fraction of the cost and you can sell less for a larger profit, it is worth while what american manufacturers can't offer.

I don't disagree with that line of reasoning - I'm just saying that at $1800, just for the crank, and I hate to mention it again, but that's boost money.

Now - If it was available for a reasonable price, you can bet your behind I'd be one of the FIRST in line.

Hell, thanks to Kevin, I think I may have one of the only boosted KA's with a CS / WT combo. Also one of the only KA's with HPC's S02 coating internally. Quite possibly the only one with one piece hot pipe and one-piece cold pipe, and maybe the only built-motor KA-T 'vert... So I'm NO stranger to going out on "that limb".

While the implications for n/a are exciting, the implications for boost are mind-boggling....

AZhitman wrote:
Good info.

I do the SEMA / AAPEX show every year, and there's HUNDREDS of Chinese / Taiwanese machineworks companies there to haggle with... (I'm taking a unique one-off custom strut brace this year to have it replicated cheaply).

If someone can develop a proto, I'm glad to take a day and shop it around.

I just don't think the demand will be there, even if it can be done for less money....

Greg, Vinnie, if you approach them with the idea of creating a drop-in replacement crank for the KA with the only difference being that it is fully counterweighted they might be interested in working with you versus just for you. They might be interested in marketing such an item through their existing customer base. I am also guessing that a prototype would not be needed.

A good basic crank would still allow local shops to perform whatever magic they like on it and generate value-added revenue that way. People could play around with rod ratios and pistons to their hearts content.

I don't see any balance shaft assembly in the KA (? -- maybe it does come on certain models?) so that is actually an advantage -- when they design it they would not have to worry about matching existing compensation for 2nd order harmonics, for example. Now, it may be that a partially counterweighted crank offers better harmonics up to a given rpm -- my guess is that their engineering department would be able to crunch the numbers pretty quickly.

They would need to check the blocks of a fair cross-section of KA models and years to look for casting variations that would interfere with the swept path of the additional counterweights. So they would need to bring in a few dozen scrap engines -- not such a tall order since a large percentage of scrapped engines are heading to China anyway.

Doesn't cost anything to ask them except for your time.

AZhitman wrote:
I don't disagree with that line of reasoning - I'm just saying that at $1800, just for the crank, and I hate to mention it again, but that's boost money.

Now - If it was available for a reasonable price, you can bet your behind I'd be one of the FIRST in line.

Greg but if you look at chinese production, now you can put half as much through production for a more affordable price. Possibly even a crank shaft going as low as $1200 in cost, and now producing half as much putting a vendor/distributor at less risk for financial loss.This is the reason why the american market has been using chinese production, to slam products out like hotcakes.

Kevin Johnson wrote:I don't see any balance shaft assembly in the KA (? -- maybe it does come on certain models?) so that is actually an advantage -- when they design it they would not have to worry about matching existing compensation for 2nd order harmonics, for example. Now, it may be that a partially counterweighted crank offers better harmonics up to a given rpm -- my guess is that their engineering department would be able to crunch the numbers pretty quickly.

They would need to check the blocks of a fair cross-section of KA models and years to look for casting variations that would interfere with the swept path of the additional counterweights. So they would need to bring in a few dozen scrap engines -- not such a tall order since a large percentage of scrapped engines are heading to China anyway.

What I don't understand is how simple it would be to design a fully counterweighted crank. It's as simple as following the rod/stroke ratio's from the L20b's that came with fully counterweighted cranks, KA is simply just on a larger scale of course, but basic math at that. As far as balance shafts no need for KA, and if it comes to harmonics people should be investing into ATI dampeners to begin with. I notice a lot of people removing there balance shafts anyways (QR25de's), and no there aren't any balance shafts in the KA24e/de's to begin with . Renault started installation of balance shafts in the QR25de, and QR20de. Besides there are frictional power losses with the balance shafts installed, there really only used to keep the engine from shaking vertically from what I understand, for a smoother streetable ride.I use polyurethaned motor mounts in my chassis and it rattles, I'm the guy that says the hell with balance shafts, I want more HP. Ultimately the only concern would be to change out the girdle main found on the s chassis DE engines and replaced with truck main caps instead, or the use of the KAe main. DeviousKA (GabeZ) pointed out to me years ago that the napsz engines were far more superior with there main caps than the KA engines in general.I believe that the truck and stanza/altima blocks went through the most casting variations as well. But really if this crank shaft was to be redesigned I would say mostly for use for rear wheel drive S chassis owners.


Modified by Bigvinnie at 9:33 AM 3/25/2007

I think Mitsubishi holds the patents on balance shaft use -- in modern engines anyway (1970s on). Chrysler, Porsche, etc. sublicence from them.

Anyway, the path is there for people to investigate. I am plenty busy with windage control.

Not to go OT, but what kind of average 1/4 time would be required to have a credible 200whp for a 2700-2800lb car such as the Altima/240?? High 13s?

As far as 240's... I would guess is mid 14 down to maybe high 13's depending on how much weight can be droped.

Personaly, I think such estimates are *** backwards, given that HP is not really a factor of 1/4 mile times... But rather your 1/4 mile times depend on HP.

And on a side note... The Chinese manufacture comment made me burst out laughing. (but I'm glad they are there to reduce costs to the end consumer) I also think that a fully counterweighted crank for the KA has after market potential for both turbo and NA applications. Making the odds of it working out to be profitable a lot better. I say go for it!

but vinnie you cannot forget the fair sized market else where in the world... all teh trx/pinny owners would have a fit,plus I believe they would be more so influenced to buy a 1200~1800$ crank versus a bolt on turbo kit( alot of those chassis owners have to keep a "stock" apperance), and I think this would just be the answer to gettign ka's over the hump... dont get me wrong I think the interest is more towards s chassis owners,but it would be harder to get the required number off cranks all into s13/14's, rather then all ka series engines combined... I geuss I'm looking at it like they get major fines for mods were as we dont(or not so bad), and how often are the engines pulled apart to see... I geuss I'm trying to ramble off soem NEED hiden mods when others could easily spend 1200~1800 to boost,thats a real nice budget boost build....

Shift_Kouki wrote:As far as 240's... I would guess is mid 14 down to maybe high 13's depending on how much weight can be droped.

Personaly, I think such estimates are *** backwards, given that HP is not really a factor of 1/4 mile times... But rather your 1/4 mile times depend on HP.

And on a side note... The Chinese manufacture comment made me burst out laughing. (but I'm glad they are there to reduce costs to the end consumer) I also think that a fully counterweighted crank for the KA has after market potential for both turbo and NA applications. Making the odds of it working out to be profitable a lot better. I say go for it!

Shift_Kouki wrote:As far as 240's... I would guess is mid 14 down to maybe high 13's depending on how much weight can be droped.

Personaly, I think such estimates are *** backwards, given that HP is not really a factor of 1/4 mile times... But rather your 1/4 mile times depend on HP.

And on a side note... The Chinese manufacture comment made me burst out laughing. (but I'm glad they are there to reduce costs to the end consumer) I also think that a fully counterweighted crank for the KA has after market potential for both turbo and NA applications. Making the odds of it working out to be profitable a lot better. I say go for it!

Their website doesn't say it directly (without registering on it, I guess) but the literature I picked up at the show says they have made parts for:

Cummins, Perking, Deutz, Benz, Komatsu, Caterpillar, Isuzu, Hino, Mitsubishi, Bedford, Ford, VW and, yes, Nissan.

Also gear box parts for Allison, ZF, Fuller ...

While someone is talking to them be sure to ask about the K25 industrial engine crank (2488cc 89mm X 100mm). Seems highly possible that this is a stroker crank for the KA. No replacement for displacement?

I only asked because as I mentioned earlier in the thread, a long time member of what used to be Altimas.net ran a 14.6 in his '93 5 speed Altima w/bolt ons and a JWT ECU and slicks...

He then went with a 10.5 CR, same bolt ons, and some so-so Racetep cams and w/ECU and slicks ran a 13.9 and has slips to back both...

He's never did dyno runs but I figure his car (not gutted) being around 288-2900lbs, must have been around or near the 200crank hp to run the 14.6 and over 200 crank hp to run the 13.9....he may be an enigma but he did it...

Kevin Johnson wrote:While someone is talking to them be sure to ask about the K25 industrial engine crank (2488cc 89mm X 100mm). Seems highly possible that this is a stroker crank for the KA. No replacement for displacement?

Possibly... From my reading in this thread (and i think off site places it has lead me to), a 100mm stroke seems to be about as much as you want. And it will get the KA to what? 2.5-2.6L depending on how much over bore is being run? * But this is off the top of my head and I don't trust my math here 100%, however considering I'm a newb / layman *

@ Niceguy -- I really don't know too much about actual track times w/ drag racing as my only experience w/ going fast in a straight line is not something to discuss in a public forum if you know what i mean. But I do know that if he was running custom gear ratios that can make up a lot for lower HP in the car as compared to stock gear ratios.

shift I think your right...

IIRC IPP sells a stroker kit for the ka but why its over stoked already....part of the reason you can find FEW who would go that route,when(back to the problem) a turbo setup could be had for less. Again dont get me wrong I'd love for higher hp ka's

niceguy maybe yes maybe no. A rwd car looses more whp then a fwd and 5spds loose less hp then auto, so I would say those helped his times.... but no dyno makes it hard to "see" the numbers. Geuss I'm rambling about a 240 not gonna make the exact same as any fwd with same mods.. make sense?

Shift_Kouki wrote:
And on a side note... The Chinese manufacture comment made me burst out laughing. (but I'm glad they are there to reduce costs to the end consumer)

It may sound funny but it is the sad truth that will end america as a financial super power. Not to mention add scarcity amongst jobs and careers which will eventually get rid of the entire middle class of american society (the claim is that this will all come crashing down in the next 20years or so).The other sad truth is that no matter how hard I try to persuade american manufacturers they are not willing to budge on the issue unless the hefty price tag is paid for, you can thank inflated capitalism for that one.The Chinese do very well at manufacturing and I am surprised to see that they are the majority of manufacturers for the parts you find on your import car to date. It's the manufacturer of (Megan,Psuedo,OBX) that put good manufactured quality products such as Hot Shot out of the header import business. This industry has become survival of the fittest when it comes to selling products at an affordable price.

neverlift wrote:but vinnie you cannot forget the fair sized market else where in the world... all teh trx/pinny owners would have a fit,plus I believe they would be more so influenced to buy a 1200~1800$ crank versus a bolt on turbo kit( alot of those chassis owners have to keep a "stock" apperance), and I think this would just be the answer to gettign ka's over the hump...

Well I haven't forgotten at all. Don't forget I live in California, I am looking for a crank of this nature to compete with more naturally aspirated vehicles any way.Basic fact is you don't find halfweighted cranks in race engine applications, that survive on high rev. It's time to set the bar a little higher for us KA builders being NA, or forced inducted applications. With an additional 1500+RPM of power before redline would definitely make KA's in Natural Aspiration, a 200WHP reality.

I am putting all of my research collected on the KA crank to hand over to this chinese manufacturer on Thursday, I wanted to do it on wed, but I'll be to busy with school.