Fully counterweighed KA cranks

[Bigvinnie]

Alright guy's I have been chatting back and fourth with Robert Jones of SCAT, and I have been trying really hard to negotiate the production of a fully counterweighed crank for the KA.Here is the out come so far....Robert Jones explained that in order to get the crank at a suitable price (affordable) many cranks would need to be produced from billet. His example was that SCAT produced 400 cranks for one company just to bring the cost down to something that would come close to being affordable. I asked if the cranks could get produced for anything close to $1000 and more than likely not, unless there could be a high demand for the KA crank.I am pretty much leaving this open for distributors/vendors to reply too, as well as consumers.I would really like to see a KA crank produced within the year. It would be great if people could send an email to SCAT regarding the demand and production of the KA crank.Right now I have a list of 16people besides myself that would like to purchase a fully counterweighed crank. It defenitely isn't enough to get it produced for an affordable amount.Here is Roberts Email please let him know that there is a great intrest for the KA crank. [email protected]

Thank You for reading

[deviousKA]

BigVinnie, If you have your heart set on a custom fully counterweighted ka24 crankshaft, just give Ed Pink a call.

He along with a couple other very well known nissan/datsun engine builders (and also some help from the infiniti formula development team) designed the most exotic rotating assembly available for the ka24. He may be able to make some more available to the general public if there is enough interest.

http://www.edpink.com/

Getting a whole new set of custom crank design and manufacturing done is going to be expensive. Trying not to be pessimistic here, but there is not going to be enough customers for scat to do this, imho. The investment would be to large for a shop to fill the first couple sets of orders.

[Chezedik]

What would be the advantage to a counterweighted crank?

[Hard_Limitz]

I think they are trying to raise the redline for the KA24DE, as the main problem for this is the harmonics of such a long crankshaft.
Modified by Hard_Limitz at 3:35 PM 12/18/2005

[Bigvinnie]

I am dead set on a fully counter weighed crank.Not only for rev limitation and harmonics, but also for increased HP and acceleration through out the entire power band (and a smoother power band at that). Hands down a fully counterweighed crank surpases the limitations of the half weighted cranks.

KA-T guy's would be set on a fully counter weighted crank in order to compete with the RB class of engines.Fully counter weighed cranks make performance engines what they are, halfweighted is a joke.Thanks for the info devious. I'll be making a phone call, scat is to much trouble.....

[Bigvinnie]

Good News and Bad news.Good news first. Devious did lead me on the right path to the fully counterweighed crank. ED Pink how ever redirected me to Nissan Motor Sports. Ed Pink no longer reserves the rights to production, Nissan Motorsports does. I spoke with Paul and had gotten into it abit about the crank which Nissan Motors Sports has been thinking to produce it for the market.Here is the bad news. You can purchase this crank from Nissan Motorsports with a heafty price tag. There are only 20 a year produced in manufacturing. The journals and cap are all redesigned for lower friction. This means the purchase of new rods as well. The bottom half of the engine has to be redesigned with a new cap in order to use stronger larger main bearings. The stroke slightly changes.Paul is going to get back to me in January with a detailed cost of the internals from the bearings, rods, crank shaft, and piston assembly.You can give Nissan Motorsports a call they would like to know that there is a demand for this product.Paul did inform me that there was an older design used that maintained the stock rods and bearings, it has been modified over the past few years for the core and GT divisions.Lets show a demand so that we can get the price lowered.

[ShionS14]

do you have Paul's direct phone number?

[Bigvinnie]

do you have Paul's direct phone number?

I can't directly hand out Pauls number. But you can call Nissan Motor Sports LTD and ask to get in contact with Paul Sinclair. I will ask Paul when he calls me back if I may hand out his office line.


Modified by Bigvinnie at 1:18 PM 3/24/2007

[PandaS14]

If not his phone number, how bout his email address? I'll shoot him an email.

[4felix20]

just how much money would one of these cost? i'm in the process of rebuilding my ka24de and a new crank would be a nice addition to the forged parts if it's affordable.

[TrueSlide]

1k is alot. Iam def interested in a balanced crank since it seems I may have to abandon my hybrid project( ppl keep backing out of selling certain parts ) So its gonna be a mildly prepped stocker. If the price is decent, Iam in. Around 1k naw. I have seen/heard of KA stock cranks with some balancing work and knifeedging reving into the high 7 low 8 range.

[PandaS14]

a "balanced" half counter weighted crank is still sooo far off of a fully counterweighted crank, it's pretty much non-comparable.

[TrueSlide]

Oh I know, I rather have a fully counterweighted crank, but if worse comes to worse. Iam just do some modifying to mine, its throwing me in the range I want to be. 7-8k.

[deviousKA]

Hey Trueslide, I have been busy the last few days and didnt have chance to send you that info. Had time today though, sent you some mail.

Glad that information was useful Vinnie. Hopefully you can get something going in regards to that crankshaft for those staying 2.4.

[TrueSlide]

Hey Trueslide, I have been busy the last few days and didnt have chance to send you that info. Had time today though, sent you some mail.

Glad that information was useful Vinnie. Hopefully you can get something going in regards to that crankshaft for those staying 2.4.

Yes I received thanks. I was waiting on emailing you back cause I was wanting to get the crank and block first since those are the BIG pieces of the puzzle and it seems like the guy doesnt want to respond back, he set a price I agreed and nothing. I may have to try and source it from somewhere else. I still plan on getting the rods.

[deviousKA]

Ive got a few spare 86mm cranks, I would probably want more for them than most because I know how useful they are, and then shipping and all.

Scout your local rundown u-pull-it wrecking yards, z22's and l20's are easy to find. Not worth paying the shipping for blocks and cranks.

[Chaotic_Warlord]

So with a full counterweighted crank would this increase or decrease you displacement? since IIRC the reason you dont want to get the kit that IPP has is because the crank and rod arm throw are to long to begin with so to go say a 2.6L setup in the KA would further decrease the top RPMs. or do I have that all wrong? I'm a tad bit confused on how a fully counterweighted would benefit the KA, and would it draw more of an interest from the NA guys or those running FI? Not that I have the money to spend on such a thing since I'm pretty much flat broke but one day hopefully soon I would like to get me a spare KA block and build it up to be fully bulletproof.

[Bigvinnie]

So with a full counterweighted crank would this increase or decrease you displacement? since IIRC the reason you dont want to get the kit that IPP has is because the crank and rod arm throw are to long to begin with so to go say a 2.6L setup in the KA would further decrease the top RPMs. or do I have that all wrong? I'm a tad bit confused on how a fully counterweighted would benefit the KA, and would it draw more of an interest from the NA guys or those running FI? Not that I have the money to spend on such a thing since I'm pretty much flat broke but one day hopefully soon I would like to get me a spare KA block and build it up to be fully bulletproof.

When speaking with Paul (nismo) the KA still maintains it's 2.4 litre displacement. Redline is at about 9200RPM, when there is no friction, or resistance on the engine, it is noted that the core series KA's rev to 11,000RPM in the air, without blowing the valve train or a rod.The first production fully counterweighed used stock rods and pistons, didn't achieve as high of numbers. Nismo has made several different cranks (along with new and redesigned internals) to achieve higher, smoother harmonic redlines, nismo bearings (cap, and rods) were applied changing the dynamic of the engine for low friction, to obtain a higher redline. The specs of the rod and piston are changed to use less angle creating less friction for piston bore and stroke, (also one of the main contributors to the changes in the bearing sizes).To answer your question, if it would accomplish anything, I would say so. Fully counterweighed cranks are STRONGER, and much more durable. Half weighted cranks deal with much more flexing and torsional stresses as RPM's increase, basically decreaing power in the power band as RPM's increase (bad harmonics). Since a fully counter weighed crank also achieves better harmonics at higher revving, there is ultimately less stress applied to the valve train as well as the rods, (Less chance of bending a rod at higher rpm). In the process of achieving smoother harmonics HP and torque both increase thropugh out the entire power band. More lowend torque @ lower RPM's, as HP increases @ higher RPM's.The only disadvantage would be the turbulence created from oil flinging and raised pressure, which can be corrected with knife edging. I wouldn't really find knife edging to be a major concern either.Those are the advantages for FI, and NA.Tomorrow is the 3rd and the NISMO shop will be open, I will call Paul back to see if he has an email address that I can hand out so that he can answer the majority of everyones questions.Ultimately I am seeking a fully counterweighed crank that will allow me to use all OEM rods and pistons. Looking to keep the car streetable and affordable to build. Those GT and core engines have extremely high advanced timing, and get horrible gas mileage. I don't mind the friction that happens with OEM applicable parts, and there is just more abundance of the stock OEM.

[Edub1]

the main problem for this is the harmonics of such a long crankshaft.Modified by Hard_Limitz at 3:35 PM 12/18/2005

My girl friend complains about this all the time - sorry couldn't resist.

On a more serious note, what exactely does it mean for a CS to be "balanced"? More specifically, is it balanced when spinning alone or in combination with the force of the moving rods & pistons?

Why aren't they all balanced to begin with?

[TrueSlide]

They are balanced to a certain degree. The higher the rpm the more the harmonics get outta whack, as far as I know balancing just keeps the harmonics balanced at set rpms.

[Bigvinnie]

Anyways guy's you can contact NISMO and give them your input as to a fully counterweighted crank for the KAE/KADE.NISMO's email address [email protected] to get in contact with Paul Sinclair and ask any questions that you desire as to the use of a fully counterweighted crank, let NISMO know there is a demand. Paul stated that a production crank would be made if there was a great interest.
Modified by Bigvinnie at 1:19 PM 3/24/2007