Whos got the most powerfull NA KA?

[AZhitman]

That's a SOHC you're describing...

[stocker240]

100% no sohc --- its definately dohc i was told little to no details about the internals, etc other than everything had been gone through , when it comes to dealing with andy - i believe everything he says and hes got the record to back it up including the dyno sheets

[AZhitman]

Well, like I've said, over and over and over and over and over... We've been here for 10 years.

If someone has made 200+ hp with a DOHC N/A KA, then they're either hiding under a rock (or are full of crap).

The best builders in the Nissan business have YET to attain 200 hp, so he should be happy to pop in and say HI. He'd be a hero if you're right....

[stocker240]

what specialty does -http://www.nasport.com/CollinJacksonBio.htm

TOPEKA, Kan. (Oct. 14, 2006) SCCA GT3 National ChampionshipThe car was absolutely fabulous,” Jackson said of his car’s performance. “I owe this to the car, it was just fabulous. The car builders here, Specialty Engineering, made the cars run great and it was just a pleasure to drive it. The car was so good that I was able to drive it within its limits and then to bring it home. It’s great to be back on the podium, to be a two-time champion, and that is pretty special.”

[Kraayl]

Im looking into a na build, to avoid smog issues. Rebello told me they could hit 210hp. So should i not believe this? I could just go for it and tell you guys what happens....Oh yeah the guy on the phone said with carbs and more work they could get 250. But then i cant pass smog

[WDRacing]

Easy, they are full of it...

[Kraayl]

so are they just lying or is it 210 crank?

[WDRacing]

I doubt ehy have any idea what they are talking about, why not ask them if its Crank or WHP they are talking about?

WD

[neverlift]

robello is suposed to be good..... but IDK never used them, I will say they re makign this at the crank tho,thats IMHO yeah it can be done but at what cost? how much do they want? you could build three in your house and have 2 back ups..... I'll stop rambling but you get it

wd get the cat some baileys biotch!

[WDRacing]

LMAO....

[Kraayl]

3-3700. Thats what i was quoted. Most likely i wont go through them seems like i can just use a machine shop and assemble it myself.

[240ka24]

wd, are you saying dave rebello is full of it because you dont think he can make smog 210hp or just plain cant reach 210hp? I have seen one of hhis engines that made slightly over 300hp(forgot which but im gonna say crank hp) with the dyno sheet. funny thing is , he could have done some more to make more power. it was one of the milder packages. so...if your saying he doesnt know what hes doing, you would be full of it.....I think that was some harsh words your saying about a good engine builder. peace bro....

[WDRacing]

No No, nothing against the man personally. Its a simple fact that the KA24DE isn't going to make over 200WHP without spending an a$$ ton of money. Could it be done...maybe is as far as I'm going. The KA24DE has been around since 91 and NO one has broken 200WHP yet...so you can understand why I'm skeptical.

WD

[Bigvinnie]

No No, nothing against the man personally. Its a simple fact that the KA24DE isn't going to make over 200WHP without spending an a$$ ton of money. Could it be done...maybe is as far as I'm going. The KA24DE has been around since 91 and NO one has broken 200WHP yet...so you can understand why I'm skeptical.

WD

I don't see why it can't be done.. The de head far more superior than the E head (better CFM, better rom tunes, just a set back with a crappy long runner manifold). The only other set back to the de's is the knock sensor which it doesn't prohibit ignition timing from advancing if there is more knock detected than usual. Most people I know run a closed loop disable which shuts off the knock sensor, an old trick that devious KA taught people..There are people in the dimequarterly world that fancied themselves with Lseries engines most of there life and came up with basic tricks using OEM parts on KAde's to far surpass 200Crank HP, why do the majority of this group of people withhold this info from forums???? Because it doesn't pay the bills to hand out carbon copy info in the forums, plain and simple....

When does Dave Rebello come to this forum to hand out info on how he builds his KA's??? He doesn't because then he would be out of business.

[WDRacing]

He could post a dyno slip therefore generating bussiness as ANY other engine builder could and should. If it could be done, it would be available for review.

The DE ECU doesn't read the Knock sensor after 4000 IIRC anyway, so thats a mute point.

Achieving a much higher VE in NA form is either done with displacement increase or RPM increase. The 2.4 is already stroked...and to raise the RPMS high enough to support the airflow will be VERY expensive.

The main reason no one does it is because its pointless and a total waste of money. Boost is THE answer to higher HP levels with the KA.

WD

[Bigvinnie]

My only problem with boost is the amount of money that I spend in GAS. Looking at A/F ratio's turboed engines need around a 11.4:1 A/F r to run proper ignition timing with the increased flame front from forced induction. NA engines can vary between 12.7:1~13.2:1 to make relatively good power. Just showing a A/F ratio shows that more energy (BTU from fuel) needs to be used in order to make relatively safe power for turbo charged cars. A turbo charged 4 banger that makes 300HP will demand more fuel than a 300HP V6 Natural Aspirated engine....Not here to pick a fight but turbo charging isn't for everyone, and gas where I live is already $3.20 for 91 octane, all I need is good streetable power, with good gas mileage.Either way you see it .....Spend alot on an NA build that will save you gas down the road. Or spend an affordable amount of money to turbo charge and spend more money on gas down the road. Performance isn't cheap either way it all cost money. It's just a matter of what is more effecient for the consumer.
Modified by Bigvinnie at 4:13 PM 3/15/2007

[WDRacing]

I agree, the gas sucks...lol.

If you retard timing enough you can run 12.7 very easy though. For a low boost setup, say 5 psi you can run 12.7 AFR's really easy with the MSD BTM retarding timing for you.

WD

[neverlift]

Look at noss on the aussie boards with the pintara.... he made some 190hp in his non built sohc ka cai/ext/header/cam/q45maf/TUNED.

sohc engines/heads offer something more apparently as to less moving parts.... If you look at this site http://www.race-cars.com/engsa...s.htm truck block to be exact. and 13.5:1 you can give that up as a daily but you see where I was going with this, sohc ftw also a lot of other people go with the sohc over dohc ,beef I geuss.?

[SSS]

Look at noss on the aussie boards with the pintara.... he made some 190hp in his non built sohc ka cai/ext/header/cam/q45maf/TUNED.

I think you are mistaken my friend...no one in aus has come close to 140kw at the wheels that is on our boards. One member with a T28 did about that on 10psi on an otherwise stock motor, but no one NA.

Chr1s on antrx.com is doing an NA build with the SOHC head; he is re-evaluating his setup at the moment while he is unlicensed (much bigger cam, ITB's, custom headers etc). His built motor is running about 12.0:1 CR.

[TurboDaytona]

Hey Guys, hate to break it to ya, but, SR Looks to be the best option so far.

Now the bore spaceing on the SR and KA is the same. Other than the bearings being different sizes (Not by alot), the SR crank will drop right in. Now i dont know about the crank pulley or the front and rear main seals. I am waiting for my friend to pull his blown SR to find out.

What could be done is, Add some meat to the main bearings to make it the same size as the KA. Stroke the 86mm SR crank to 96mm. Use SR Stroked crank with Stock pistons and rods. Full Counterweighted crank!

I think this would be great for N/A and KA-T.

I talked to a local machine shop here in kansas city about stroking and destroking cranks. He quoted me around $400-500 to do this work plus ballenceing. That is a far cry from $4000!!!

[neverlift]

shyt I meant kw I'm so used to hp after any figure for power..... I cant even find the post anymore to link to.... Ibelieve its was crank anyways...

if I cant find it I'll just remove the post but I know I read it on antrx....

huh an ess arh crank fits a ka.... didnt know that one

[TurboDaytona]

Its called "Mod a fi ka shun" . For those who think outside the box. Modify the Sr crank to Fit in the KA block. Do you know what bore spacing is? Do you know what Journal Diamater is, or even a Journal?

It is the Cheapest solution so far to the half counterweighted KA.

[Bigvinnie]

Its called "Mod a fi ka shun" . For those who think outside the box. Modify the Sr crank to Fit in the KA block. Do you know what bore spacing is? Do you know what Journal Diamater is, or even a Journal?

It is the Cheapest solution so far to the half counterweighted KA.

OH please biggest B.S. I have heard in years... This would mean that the block would now be shortened for rod stroke ratio, different rods, different pistons. Besides look at the pic sr cranks are shorter do to there journal lengths and diameter..

You would have a better time ordering a fully counter weighed crank from the FJ24. FJ and KA run closer rod/stroke ratio's than an SR does. (understand my sarcasim there's only 15 FJ24's left in the WORLD)

[TurboDaytona]

Ok, Sorry. I talked to some of the old Datusun 510 guys and the pointed me to the SR crank or the L20B crank. I figured the SR would be easier to find. They said teh SR crank was the same length and bore spaceing.

Anywho, How about the same Idea with the L20B crank?

Steve

[Bigvinnie]

List of cranks...NAPSZ 20,22,24Lseries 16,18,20FJ 20, 24KA 20, 24

The L20b crank is identical to the NAPSz 20 crank, internally there the same just different block dimensions and NAPSZ uses a crossflow head.Any NAPSZ block can be modified for use with the KA24 head, this is the method of destroking. Smallest block to use for 2.4litre KA valves is the 2.2litre NAPSZ block, or boring the NAPSZ20 to 2.1litres minimum. There is valve shrouding using a 2.0 litre block with stock pistons. Unless head welding is done and smaller valves used can a KA head work on a 2.0litre.

JDM KA block produced for the Isuzu truck line is the KA20de, find one if your lucky enough.

You can sleeve a KA block and drop any assortment of NAPSZ, L20b pistons, but the skirts need to be machined and modified. There is also the possibility of cracking the thin walls of the KA in this process because it takes immense heat and pressure to force the sleeves into the cast block.

Theres also a trick assembly using parts from the Mitsubishi Starion/Chrysler,Dodge Conquest using piston, and rod assembly from the 2.6 litre to modify napsz20 litre to increase bore size, stroke dimensions..

Now there probably are other cranks that can be used for a KA24 but it needs to have very similar rod stroke ratio's and to date no one has found one.

[mksue3240sx]

Not to digress, but I have been following this thread and am wondering what is the incremental gain from lightining and knife edgeing the ka crank? Is it worth it?

[TurboDaytona]

I probally could import a KA20DE, But the only problem is I dont know if it is fully counterweighted or not. I cant find anything on the internet about it. It also came in the nissan caravan.

[Bigvinnie]

Not to digress, but I have been following this thread and am wondering what is the incremental gain from lightining and knife edgeing the ka crank? Is it worth it?

Far superior gain in rev and redline, small loss in lowend torque. It's worth it for the rev, and knife edging diminishes the oil windage cloud that occurs at higher RPM in the crank case. In some respects knife edging can prevent oil temperature from rising.Instead of losing the lowend torque many people have decided to use a windage tray and scraper....

I probally could import a KA20DE, But the only problem is I dont know if it is fully counterweighted or not. I cant find anything on the internet about it. It also came in the nissan caravan.

KA20de from what I've heard is a halfweighted crank as the NAPSZ20, and L20 cranks, they are almost identicall cranks with minor differences in the journals...

[TurboDaytona]

I have pictures of the L20B crank and have talked to many 510 guys and they say it is a full counterweight crank.

[Bigvinnie]

I have pictures of the L20B crank and have talked to many 510 guys and they say it is a full counterweight crank.