Who Killed JFK?

[Onizuka]

No you are not listening, it was secret service protocal in 1963 for the president to be well surrouned in the motorcade and for the location to be secure ahead of time. Dont make up facts.

It was standard procedure for the presidential limo to be in the middle of the motercade, where was it? At the front.

It was standard procedure for their to be 4-6 police motorcycles also riding along side the limo, where were they? At the back.

It was standard procedure for a medical personel to be in the limo near the president, where were they? At the back.

It was standard procedure for sercret service personel to jog along side the car, where were they? Mysteriously waved off.

All in all there were over 15 protocals completely ignored by the secret service, just this one time. Its a little more than coincidence if you ask me.

[VimyJ]

It was Kennedy's call and not out of the norm. Votes, votes, votes. He was getting the the votes in hostile Texas full of gun toting nutballs. Kennedy rode the streets of DC in a horse drawn Laundau to his inauguration. Think anyone would do that AFTER Kennedy?

Answer one thing: Why couldn't Oswald, the trained Marine marksman armed with a scoped rifle malcontent, have acted alone like say, Hinkley?

[Mr1der]

Something seems so wrong about those two words together.

actually there was this Sniper competition between armed forces on the outdoor channel or network or whatever...

sadly, the two canadian guys, Sniper 1 and Sniper 2 because they were some kinda classified spec ops guys, beat the crap out of everyone, I think the USMC took a distant 2nd place:(

that whole magic bullet thing makes you think, I bet it was the mob though, that's why Ruby popped Oswald so he wouldn't squeel

[krazy skwerel]

Well I stand corrected. It appears that Canadians are bad mofos.

[blink0r]

Just recently in the war in Iraq, a canadian sniper set the world record for longest kill

Some of you americans are sadly misinformed!

[Mr1der]

perhaps, but those damn WWII Ruskie snipers would pwn us all, they had women that actually had unconfirmed's up to I think 600 and a lot of them had close to 200 confirmed

kinda makes the legendary Carlos Hathcook look bad with his 99 confirmed huh? that's ok, he's the first to use a .50bmg Sniping weapon, it was just a heavy machine gun with a scope on it:D

[krazy skwerel]

Just recently in the war in Iraq, a canadian sniper set the world record for longest kill

Some of you americans are sadly misinformed!

I blame South Park, and Canadian Bacon (The Movie not the food)

[Altiman94]

actually, shooting from an elevated place is easier. Why do you think us bow hunters hunt from tree stands? Hitting a moving target with a scope on a high powered rifle would not be hard at all.

[Cold_Zero]

perhaps, but those damn WWII Ruskie snipers would pwn us all, they had women that actually had unconfirmed's up to I think 600 and a lot of them had close to 200 confirmed

kinda makes the legendary Carlos Hathcook look bad with his 99 confirmed huh? that's ok, he's the first to use a .50bmg Sniping weapon, it was just a heavy machine gun with a scope on it:D

I thought Carlos Hathcoc k had 93 confirmed kills. I dont think someone having a higher number of kills takes anything away from what Carlos Hathcoc k did. The way he approached sniping and his technics used were ground breaking.

The sniper with the highest number of kills was Simo Hayha with 542. A lot of the Finnish and Soviet snipers are at the top of the list for WWII.

bud

[Mr1der]

yeah, it was 93 (I had a brain fart, even have his biography in paperback somewhere around here...)

as for the ruskies and finnish go, their rifle is a very nice choice and can generally be found in good shape for about 200 dollars, Moisin Nagant, I can't remember the actual designations right now, but it's a 7.62x 54Russian, offers ballistics of that of a 30-06 and probably better accuracy, it's what most Dragunovs are chambered in:D

[Onizuka]

It was Kennedy's call and not out of the norm. Votes, votes, votes. He was getting the the votes in hostile Texas full of gun toting nutballs. Kennedy rode the streets of DC in a horse drawn Laundau to his inauguration. Think anyone would do that AFTER Kennedy?

Answer one thing: Why couldn't Oswald, the trained Marine marksman armed with a scoped rifle malcontent, have acted alone like say, Hinkley?

It was not kennedy's call, stop spreding mis-information. The secret service director of the motorcade had complete control of the situation. The whole thing started off as a standard motorcade setup and was changed in the very begining by the director who was in a seperate car from the president. Again where are the records of the motorcade in dallas? Mysteriously gone like all the other damning evidence. But then again you dont need the destroyed secret service document when you can see it all clearly on video footage.

LHO did NOT even hit the president. 16 doctors, SIXTEEN, reported not only the gaping exit wound in the back of the head, but an ENTRANCE wound below the adams apple in the front center of the neck. Go watch the Zapuder film, you will see him with both hands up at his neck like he's choking, then his head is throw back with brain tissue spattering everywhere. A police officer on a motorcycle riding behind the car reported having blood and brain matter spattered all over himself and his motorcycle. What about the limo? where was the limo for investigation? The could easily taken the limo (that had a bullet hole in the front window) and from the blood spatters determined where the shots came from. So what happened? Oops, they cleaned the limo without thinking of all that evidence. The windsheild? Oops, only 5 living witnesses to the bullet hole including the man that saw the window destroyed and a replica made to replace it.

but i guess your right, the testimonies of hundreds of people doesnt mean jack squat, that warren commission report, boy that sure is convincing. Its amazing how one bullet could go through kennedy's head, stop after exiting, turn, go into the back of the person infront of him, stop, turn again, go through the same victims right wrist and into his left theigh. Totally amazing, 4 bullet wounds 5 feet apart, one bullet. Completely beliveable, yeah, uhh huh, sure.

[Get240DiZzY]

...his head is throw back with brain tissue spattering everywhere...

I actually noticed that when I watched the film... if the shot came from behind, why was his head thrown backwards?

Doug votes conspiricy. There's really not enough evidence to conclusively prove anything, though.

[AZhitman]

I was actually shocked to see the "close-up" of frames of film during the bullet impact. I'm 33 years old and I can never recall seeing that clip... Not something one forgets easily.

But I recall thinking the same thing - Why did the head snap back and the frags go back as well?

[Toms240420]

canadians have nothing else to do but practice.

[AZhitman]

LOL - ouch.

[Onizuka]

Warning, grafic footage showing presidents head being shot from the front:

http://www.powow.com/reviews/zap.htm

[Altiman94]

he was definitely shot in the front of the head, with the exit wound out the back. Oswald did not kill the president. He may have shot at him, but he didn't hit him.

[VimyJ]

Exit wounds are always larger than entry wounds. The bullet entering the back of the head cause the tissue to explode out of the front of his head throwng it back. The pieces of skull attached by skin hinge back away from the explosion and one of these pieces was chased by Jackie. The energy of the bullet caused an explosion of energized tissue. Entry wound small, exit wound huge because the bullet was deformed and sent spinning because it hit the back of the skull first causing massive energy release within the skull that was released upn exit through the front.

If you've ever seen those pictures/video of ballistics tests using material that mimics human flesh, the bullets never travel in a straight line through the medium. The first shot went entirely through the soft tissue of Kennedy's neck area emerged realatively intact because no bone was encountered and having lost a substainial amount of its intial energy then struck Connely. The bullet didn't have enough energy to massively deform in Connelly but did have enough energy to break bones and richocet off them which accounts for the "stops in mid air" misconception.

I saw the film again today and JFK and Connelly react at precisely the same moment to the first shot. Connely turns around because by the time the bullet had struck him it had lost a great deal of its killing energy. He was turning around to see what had hit him. Then boom second shot hitting Kennedy's down turned head from behind blowing the front of it off exploding his brain out the front and snapping his head back. Action and reaction. Physics.

[Get240DiZzY]

...but it's so much cooler if it's s conspiricy!

[Onizuka]

Exit wounds are always larger than entry wounds. The bullet entering the back of the head cause the tissue to explode out of the front of his head throwng it back. The pieces of skull attached by skin hinge back away from the explosion and one of these pieces was chased by Jackie. The energy of the bullet caused an explosion of energized tissue. Entry wound small, exit wound huge because the bullet was deformed and sent spinning because it hit the back of the skull first causing massive energy release within the skull that was released upn exit through the front.

If you've ever seen those pictures/video of ballistics tests using material that mimics human flesh, the bullets never travel in a straight line through the medium. The first shot went entirely through the soft tissue of Kennedy's neck area emerged realatively intact because no bone was encountered and having lost a substainial amount of its intial energy then struck Connely. The bullet didn't have enough energy to massively deform in Connelly but did have enough energy to break bones and richocet off them which accounts for the "stops in mid air" misconception.

I saw the film again today and JFK and Connelly react at precisely the same moment to the first shot. Connely turns around because by the time the bullet had struck him it had lost a great deal of its killing energy. He was turning around to see what had hit him. Then boom second shot hitting Kennedy's down turned head from behind blowing the front of it off exploding his brain out the front and snapping his head back. Action and reaction. Physics.

Have you ever heard of transfer of momentum? "exploding skin" or what ever the hell you are talking about doesnt amount to jack squat. When you kick a soccar ball does the other side assert some sort of magical force sending it back in the direction of your foot? You said yourself you have shot an assortment of firearms, which way does the aluminum can go when you shoot it? This is about as basic as physics get. Momentum from the bullet WILL transfer in the same direction it was travelling. If you want I can get my 9th grade general science teacher on here to teach you all about newton and his discoveries he made a couple hundred years ago.

plus JFK's face was totally intact when it was at the hospital, and like i said before, it is confermed by 16, profesional, certified, well-experienced doctors that the exit wound was at the back of the skull.

[Get240DiZzY]

Ya know what? I may have to change my vote. After reviewing the film, I noticed that there was an almost unnoticable trail of smoke coming from behind JFK's head, right before he gets hit, and that his head moves slightly foreward before being thrown back. Also, it looks like the bullet was deflected upwards and slightly to JFK's front, an angle that makes it look like the bullet came from behind.

Based on VimyJ's physics, and the angle of the small smoke trail/possible deflection, it looks like he was hit from an elevated position behind him...

[Onizuka]

bullets dont have a trail of smoke, sorry. Hes leaning forward becuase he was shot in the neck, and obviously grabing the wound.

when you shoot a target it doesnt move a half inch away then rebound back towards you a foot and a half.

the smoke you probably see isnt smoke, its blood and brain tissue being spattered everywhere.

Here is the evidence:-bullet hole in the front window (5+ witnesses)-gaping exit wound at back of skull (16 professional doctors beared witness to this examining JFK's body at the hospital before it was stolen by the secret service and flown to washington illegally)-evidence wipped clean from limo before it could be reported-JFK's head is dramatically moving backwards durring the impact of the shot

[Get240DiZzY]

Nonono, he is leaning foreward because he was shot in the neck, but about 1/2 a second before his head explodes, his head jerks foreward, like he got hit in the back of the head with something.

And if there was a gaping exit wound in the back of the skull, wouldn't we see it on the film? All I see is a gaping wound where he face should be.

This is why this murder is still a mystery today... there's alot of ambiguous(sp?) evidence.

[Onizuka]

If his head was moving forward right as the bullet hit it was simply coincidence. High velocity rifle rounds dont simply move the object it hits a tiny bit, it moves it ALOT. But most people would expect that from a peice of lead moving at over 600mph. Not only does his head fly back, but his upper body too. If you hurled a 300lb rock at a car at 600mph, what would happen? Would the car, inch away for a moment then lurch towards the direction the rock was thrown from?

regardless, the autopsy photos released from the government show NO exit wounds, isnt that a little suspicious to you? In a analysis of the photos they determined a section of the back of the skull to be tampered with and covered up, showing only a tiny hole where the governments "magic bullet" hit kennedy.

[Altiman94]

there wouldn't neccessarily have to be a large exit wound. It could go straight in and out leaving only two small holes. Obviously this wasn't the case. He was shot from the front witht he exit wound out the back of the head. He lost over 2000cc of blood in 2 hours so there was major, major traumatic bleeding involved that would also hint at a large exit wound. There was a cover-up somewhere.

[Mr1der]

you have to bear in mind also that the rounds used were likely old surplus FMJ's, which don't tend to make an enormous exit would in general, usually they punch nice holes through them. Ever shot fruit with high powered rifles and FMJ's?

[Onizuka]

when a lead bullet hits a target it deforms into a flat plate as it passes through, leaving a larger exit wound than entrance wound, this is true with any lead bullet

[Mr1der]

not a full metal jacket though, it'll only deform if it hits a very hard target, the human head isn't very hard:D

I have a backyard full of FMJ's, want me to try and dig some up?

the copper jacket is harder and less likely to heat up and become as malleable as the lead.

[Onizuka]

sorry for the grafic images.

[Mr1der]

did he have a neck wound in the autopsy? he'd have to have a hell of a funny position to get shot in the neck and have the back of his head as an exit would like that though, unless he was shot by someone in the car.