What do you believe in?

[TurboKA37]

100% nontheist. even though i still go to roman-catholic church every once in awhile. i think religion is extremely important to keep an organized society but i am a very simple, logical thinker. if it doesnt make since mathmatically, chemically, etc i wont believe it.

[skydragoness]

turboka: ah. my mother is roman catholic, as that's how she was raised (spanish people tend to be uber religious) she gets really pissed about me not coming to church with her. so i still get dragged there from time to time. even though she knows it's a hopeless cause and i've already discussed my agnosticism with her. it bothers me that she refuses to understand.

rockenreno: thanks for the sig pic compliments. i should have a better one soon. :P

[C-Kwik]

Sorry for getting offtopic, but just to clarify, because i wasn't sure when i wrote the post and still i'm some what unsure, does the Catholic god forgive nonbelievers?

Is the Roman Catholic God any different than any other Christian God? It's not like when protestants and the many other denominations of Christianity were formed that all of a sudden we had new Gods form. So your question should be, does God forgive non-believers. And to that, I say no. If you do not believe, you would not ask for forgiveness. God will not grant you salvation unless you ask.

[ratm]

Yeah i know the different sects don't have different gods. I referred to the catholic church because i was only concerned with it's standpoint on the subject. Thanks for the answers.

[blink0r]

1. Unitarian Universalism (100%) 2. Liberal Quakers (95%) 3. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (92%) 4. Neo-Pagan (89%) 5. Mahayana Buddhism (83%) 6. New Age (83%) 7. Theravada Buddhism (81%) 8. Sikhism (81%) 9. Reform Judaism (75%) 10. Jainism (74%) 11. Secular Humanism (72%) 12. Bahá'í Faith (71%) 13. Taoism (71%) 14. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (64%) 15. New Thought (61%) 16. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (55%) 17. Hinduism (54%) 18. Orthodox Quaker (52%) 19. Scientology (51%) 20. Orthodox Judaism (51%) 21. Jehovah's Witness (50%) 22. Nontheist (42%) 23. Islam (38%) 24. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (36%) 25. Seventh Day Adventist (22%) 26. Eastern Orthodox (16%) 27. Roman Catholic (16%)

[MasterMan]

1. Unitarian Universalism (100%) 2. Secular Humanism (92%) 3. Theravada Buddhism (86%) 4. Liberal Quakers (84%) 5. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (73%) 6. Neo-Pagan (64%) 7. Nontheist (62%) 8. Mahayana Buddhism (58%) 9. New Age (56%) 10. Taoism (54%) 11. Reform Judaism (46%) 12. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (45%) 13. New Thought (44%) 14. Scientology (44%) 15. Jainism (43%) 16. Bahá'í Faith (43%) 17. Orthodox Quaker (41%) 18. Sikhism (34%) 19. Hinduism (32%) 20. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (26%) 21. Jehovah's Witness (24%) 22. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (24%) 23. Islam (19%) 24. Orthodox Judaism (19%) 25. Seventh Day Adventist (17%) 26. Eastern Orthodox (9%) 27. Roman Catholic (9%)

i never followed religon.. so eh.. go figure

[szh]

Interesting results for me ... given that I am a moderate, non-practicing Muslim ...

1. Reform Judaism (100%)2. Liberal Quakers (87%)3. Sikhism (85%)4. Unitarian Universalism (79%)5. Islam (79%)6. Orthodox Judaism (79%)7. Bahá'í Faith (74%)8. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (70%)9. Jainism (63%)10. Neo-Pagan (63%)11. Mahayana Buddhism (56%)12. Secular Humanism (55%)13. New Age (50%)14. Hinduism (46%)15. New Thought (46%)16. Theravada Buddhism (46%)17. Orthodox Quaker (45%)18. Scientology (41%)19. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (41%)20. Jehovah's Witness (36%)21. Eastern Orthodox (35%)22. Roman Catholic (35%)23. Nontheist (34%)24. Taoism (33%)25. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (32%)26. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (26%)27. Seventh Day Adventist (22%)

Z

[crzycav86]

Sorry for getting offtopic, but just to clarify, because i wasn't sure when i wrote the post and still i'm some what unsure, does the Catholic god forgive nonbelievers?

The thing I love most about the Catholic Church is that it truly lives up to its name. It really is the "universal" church. Most Catholics don't believe exactly what the Catholic doctrine teaches them, which prevents conformity, and the church is completely accepting of this.

Sadly, I think that most people think the members of the catholic church are all provincial headless chickens, blindly accepting whatever the priests feeds them, and this discourages them from learning more about it.

Today, I think the Catholic church is one of the more liberal and accepting christian churches.(or one of the most conservative, depending on how you look at it)

Now, to answer the quote, the answer is no. The magesterium would say that generally God does not forgive non-believers. Here's why: THERE'S NOTHING TO FORGIVE! It's not sinful for a person to to not be catholic, or christian, or theist. At least thats the modern Catholic viewpoint. A person who has lived alone on a remote island all his life will not be sent to hell because he's never heard of some guy named Jebus. Today, the Catholic church teaches that a person can live in concert with God within him(live according to natural law) and still live forever. Surprisingly enough, the church teaches that for all we know, hell could be empty. That means all the terrible people we were raised to loathe(Hitler, Stalin, serial killers, ricers) could all be living with God. We just don't know who is in hell and who's not.

I'm not trying to start a debate(although I would love to have one), I'm just trying to rectify a few misconceptions that are floating around about MY church....

BTW, there are lots of places where you can learn the up-to-date teachings of the church for all those that are interested(yeah right)....

[dareo]

Thats how a lot of catholics are, they were "baptized" into the church as a baby. They get baptized once, by whoever, and they call themselves a catholic.

If your going to say your X religion, you better go to your church, and know whats up about your church. If not, just say you deny the existence of any Diety because your too lazy to find out more about it.

[crzycav86]

If your going to say your X religion, you better go to your church, and know whats up about your church. If not, just say you deny the existence of any Diety because your too lazy to find out more about it.

I don't think thats necessarily true. I'd say most people have spiritual beliefs even if they don't follow an organized religion. People can still believe in whatever kind of God they want, so long as it promotes goodness, and the Catholic Church would be perfectly accepting of this.

But I do agree that there is a certain laziness factor involved with the increase of religious indifference.

[dareo]

People that have spiritual beliefs, believe there is a Diety. If there is a Diety, he most likely has a church that is inspired by him. And if there is only one Diety, there should be ONLY one true church pertaining to him. All other churches are not of the one true God, while they may teach good and uplifting things, there can only be one true church per God.

[crzycav86]

People that have spiritual beliefs, believe there is a Diety. If there is a Diety, he most likely has a church that is inspired by him. And if there is only one Diety, there should be ONLY one true church pertaining to him. All other churches are not of the one true God, while they may teach good and uplifting things, there can only be one true church per God.

I'm not sure that I quite understand the last two sentences.

But as for the first two, there doesn't necessarily have to be a church(a place where you go and worship) in order for a person to have certain spiritual beliefs. Take deists for example. Deists believe that God created everything at first but now sits back and watches us. He doesn't take a role in our lives, but rather has us for his amusement. These are spiritual beliefs, yet I bet you haven't seen a Church of Deism anywhere....

[dareo]

Ok, i was making the point of, there is only one true church. Other churches can be good and teach good things to help peoples lives, but as far as the one and only true church inspired by God, there can be only one. What that one true church is, that is up to each person to find out on their own.

[crzycav86]

Ah. I understand now.

...I guess I was arguing something completely different huh?

[dareo]

Well no, you were saying that someone can have beliefs and not be with a church. I was saying that there can be only one true church. But if someone believes in God, they should seek His true church.

[crzycav86]

But what if the person believes that the organized religions are wrong, and he's right? He already believes that he found the "right religion", so he shouldn't have to search anymore. Correct?

Are you saying that only organized religions have legitimacy? Because one guy's beliefs are just as legitimate as the next one's.

[dareo]

That person can have that opinion, if that person has really looked into all the organized religions. Most people just take the lazy way out and do nothing.

As far as your question about legitimacy, there is only one religious faith or belief that i think has 'legitimacy'. Beliefs are legit sure, but having THE true church of God in your life to help you out with those beliefs makes all the difference.

[dareo]

By help you out, i dont mean tell you what to believe btw. I mean provide organization to it all and provide a place where you can learn more about religion and be around people who share your beliefs.

[SHIFTrl240]

Mahayana Buddhism (100%) 2. Unitarian Universalism (97%) 3. Neo-Pagan (96%) 4. New Age (93%) 5. Theravada Buddhism (87%) 6. Liberal Quakers (86%) 7. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (82%) 8. New Thought (81%) 9. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (80%) 10. Hinduism (78%) 11. Taoism (74%) 12. Scientology (72%) 13. Jainism (71%) 14. Bahá'í Faith (62%) 15. Sikhism (60%) 16. Secular Humanism (58%) 17. Reform Judaism (55%) 18. Orthodox Quaker (42%) 19. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (37%) 20. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (33%) 21. Orthodox Judaism (33%) 22. Jehovah's Witness (31%) 23. Nontheist (31%) 24. Islam (23%) 25. Seventh Day Adventist (20%) 26. Eastern Orthodox (14%) 27. Roman Catholic (14%)

:p

[Nismo_Freak]

I'm agnostic... don't need to take some test to prove it.

I simply don't believe in a supreme being or some divine intervention.

/story.

[MasterMan]

agnostic means that u dont really know if there is a supream being or not but you dont really care eather way.. atleast thats how it was explained to me.. im athist wich means there is no god, i flat out dont beleave in it.. my dad is agnostic.. but correct me if im wrong

[Josh]

I don't know if I agree with dareo... What happens if you don't belong to the one, true church?

I don't go to church... Used to when I was younger, but not anymore. I was born Catholic and don't believe the Catholic church, or any church for that matter, is right. I don't beleive you have to be baptised to get into heaven. I don't believe you need to go to a man-built house of God.

If you pray, or talk, or put away time for God or what not every day or week or whatever, I think you are fine. I could go to church and pray, but I won't. If I pray, I'll pray at my bed before I go to sleep. Not becasue I'm lazy, but because I don't need to be in any 'special' building with some guy telling me wrong and right.

However, if one religion is THE religion, too bad for the rest of us.

[NY94J30]

A quick syllogism:

Without reason one cannot make an argument.

Faith is an abrogation of reason.

Hence, one cannot base an argument on faith.

That said, my only point is to each their own - but you cannot logically argue one faith is correct and another isn't. There simply is no empirical way to prove it.

[Josh]

but you cannot logically argue one faith is correct and another isn't

I agree...

[dareo]

What happens if you dont belong to the one true church? Well thats hard to answer unless i use my belief system. But if you want an answer based on my belief system (no mocking it now) then that answer would be:A person who dies w/o receiving the gospel of Jesus Christ and taking his name upon them via a real Baptism cannot enter the kingdom of god. (that part you can find in the bible) So said person's dies and the inner soul or spirit seperates from the body. This spirit will go to either Spirit Prison or Spirit Paradise, depending on if the person was a a good person or not ect. Spirit prison is like a place that your soul cant leave till you accept the Lord Jesus Christ, repent of your sins, and be baptized in his name for the remission of your sins. Spirit Paradise is for the good guys, and usually they end up teaching the guys in Spirit Prison the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Then, there will come a day of ressurection, when everybody gets a res and a perfect immortal body. But there's also a Judgement, and based upon your works you will receive one of 3 kingdoms of glory, or parts of Heaven.

So if you do whatever you want, you'll still live forever, but you'll have sorta the equivelant of a bad appartment and a minimum wage job kinda lifestyle compared to other people. You'll be lower class for the rest of eternity.

It gets vastly deeper than that, but for here and now, i think that will do.

p.s. Logic and religion do not get along very well, you cant prove even simple concepts like God existing with logic. Thats where faith comes in, believing in things unseen and unproven. When you get down to it, thats what any religion is based on. You cant say its based on the bible, cause what is that? Letters and stuff that prophets and apostles and even just regular guys wrote, based on their faith and beliefs. Then it got passed through thousands of years of translations and different versions, and people still believe it like its THE encyclopedia of religion. The bible is great and all, but theres no denying that its not all 100% perfect information, even the bible contradicts the bible.

[Josh]

Logic and religion do not get along very well, you cant prove even simple concepts like God existing with logic. Thats where faith comes in, believing in things unseen and unproven

Now that I'll agree with...

[jdmfreak]

Same here.

[trpower7]

Deism. It's the only way to roll.

[RobDET]

A quick syllogism:

Without reason one cannot make an argument.

Faith is an abrogation of reason.

Hence, one cannot base an argument on faith.

abrogation : To abolish, do away with, or annul, especially by authority.

I like this bit... especially now that i know that word. (I had assumed it's meaning but i wanted to know exactially). I'm assuming the MAN or the BOOK requires that fath be an abrogation of reason?

[NY94J30]

I'm assuming the MAN or the BOOK requires that fath be an abrogation of reason?

I'm not following your question.

Are you asking if by that syllogism you cannot verify the existance of a god or gods, or qualify any of the holy texts?