What a day...

[Infinitiguy19]

Then why should an employee be required to pay back a company if they choose to leave without 2 weeks notice?

Because those are the rules. Why do you question things instead of thinking first? Better yet, don't you have a father to ask these questions of?

If you leave on a moment's notice, I have to hire a temp to replace you until we issue your position, advertise for it, and hire / train a new person. You cost me money. This is grade-school knowledge.

Those items can be used towards your tax return in the current system.

WTF are you talking about? Are you trying to say, "Those activities are tax-deductible"? If so, you're wrong. As usual.

What new person do you have to look for and train?

This is America and right now were in the crapper, stores are empty, homes are not selling, cars are made cheaper....The list goes on and on we are in a depression.

No doubt you have more knowledge than me and I hate arguing, well no I don't but I think arguing on the internet is useless since nothing will happen.

[AZhitman]

I think the guy getting fired and getting tossed on the street has more to lose than a company with thousands of employee's that makes thousands of dollars a day.

And the employee might be rich or poor still just to give you en example.

Since when should the company care about that?

If you're enough of a liability that I risk a lawsuit to FIRE you, I could give a damn what you've got to lose. I could also care less if you're rich or poor. If my main focus is pandering to lazy, self-centered employees, or worrying about what'll happen if I fire someone for violating the terms of their employment, I won't have a company very long.

It's business. You don't have to like it, but that's the way it is.

[AZhitman]

What new person do you have to look for and train?

A person to replace the person who gets fired!

Please, try and pay attention.

[PoorManQ45]

Since when should the company care about that?

If you're enough of a liability that I risk a lawsuit to FIRE you, I could give a damn what you've got to lose. I could also care less if you're rich or poor. If my main focus is pandering to lazy, self-centered employees, or worrying about what'll happen if I fire someone for violating the terms of their employment, I won't have a company very long.

It's business. You don't have to like it, but that's the way it is.

Greg: Remember when I made a comment about your finances and you said, "You don't know jack about my finances"?

Well, your extreme skew in this conversation is showing that you obviously are not in the "average" range of American income...

[Jesda]

I don't understand what part of that is extreme.

There are certain realities in this world, small compromises you have to make and standards you have to exceed to move up in the world. You are failing to accept these realities. We're trying to help you out here, but you're digging your own grave.

[AZhitman]

So, you're advocating the company screwing the little guy?

When a company fires an employee that employee is not given any notice. They are left to search for a job, pay bills, etc... That line of thinking goes both ways.

What are you talking about?

How is the "little guy" getting screwed? If you quit without notice, you COST THE COMPANY MORE MONEY.

Employees follow rules, not make them. How is this so hard for you to get? I'm baffled.

You always try to bully people with your "superior knowledge" Greg.

Yes, I know Stream has a call center in Scottsdale. Congratulations, you now know everything about a Global BPO's workings...

I'm sorry you feel inferior. You're not being "bullied", you're getting a lesson in how life works outside of your sheltered existence where you're the center of the universe and all your family members are impressed with your supposed intellect.

I said nothing about a call center, nor is the word "always" applicable or accurate. Again, you assume things - often to your own detriment.

The sooner you comprehend that you learn a lot more by asking and listening than you do by spewing and assuming, the more happiness you'll experience and the more income you'll nail down.

[PoorManQ45]

I don't understand what part of that is extreme.

There are certain realities in this world, small compromises you have to make and standards you have to exceed to move up in the world. You are failing to accept these realities. We're trying to help you out here, but you're digging your own grave.

He is extremely supportive of the idea that the company is being hurt by an employee leaving suddenly, but believes that the employee should have not rights if they are terminated without notice. That thought process is indicative of a well off individual.

[BusyBadger]

You are clearly more concerned with being right over a labor issue than focusing on your craft and proving your skills to management. You're happy to burn bridges and kill your career.

This. This whole thread reminds me of the phrase,"That hill isn't worth dying on." Apparently some out there haven't heard this, or at least haven't learned the lesson.

Per the letter of the law, you're technically starting work.

In a properly managed company the updates will be automatically pushed overnight and the system will be restarted as needed. By requiring you to perform that function they are asking you to do the work.

I know you're probably thinking it's nitpicking, but that's the way the labor law is setup.

Actually, I'm wondering how the hell a smartassed, know-it-all ever got hired in the first place. My guess is you've been fortunate enough to have had consistently poor interviewers. That's the only thing I can figure as other NICOnauts can detect your egotistical arrogance and sense of entitlement over the web and if you could mask it well enough to fool a skilled interviewer I'd be able to find your name on IMDB.

[AZhitman]

Well, your extreme skew in this conversation is showing that you obviously are not in the "average" range of American income...

Although it's none of your business, you assume that because I hold values and character commonly associated with the wealthy, that I am wealthy.

Your assumptions are wildly out of control, and your desperate and failed attempts to "be right" are getting old.

[PoorManQ45]

Actually, I'm wondering how the hell a smartassed, know-it-all ever got hired in the first place. My guess is you've been fortunate enough to have had consistently poor interviewers. That's the only thing I can figure as other NICOnauts can detect your egotistical arrogance and sense of entitlement over the web and if you could mask it well enough to fool a skilled interviewer I'd be able to find your name on IMDB.

If I ever meet any of y'all I won't be identifying myself by my Nico handle. You'll learn very quickly how I get jobs.

This is the internet, I can, and will, speak my mind openly.

[PoorManQ45]

Per the letter of the law, you're technically starting work.

In a properly managed company the updates will be automatically pushed overnight and the system will be restarted as needed. By requiring you to perform that function they are asking you to do the work.

I know you're probably thinking it's nitpicking, but that's the way the labor law is setup.

Our individual computers are completely shut down every day before we leave. This is too conserve energy and money needed to keep those systems connected whilst the computer sleeps. So there was no way for our computers to update themselves while we were away. And it's not like I was actually updating the computer. It automatically searched out and installed updates while it booted. All I did was press a power button and type in my user name and password. I hardly think that qualifies as work.

And TBH, if that DOES qualify as work to you, you need to seriously rethink your work ethic.

I properly configured configuration will use WOL to power on the systems when updates are needed, then turn them back off when finished.

[ADDirishboy]

Paul Wall and PMQ need better work ethic. I think that's really all that needs to be said in this thread.

[AZhitman]

He is extremely supportive of the idea that the company is being hurt by an employee leaving suddenly, but believes that the employee should have not rights if they are terminated without notice. That thought process is indicative of a well off individual.

OMG.

WHAT RIGHTS DO YOU EXPECT??? TWO WEEKS NOTICE TO BE FIRED???

Screw it - You're too stupid to talk to. I give up (and I rarely, if ever, give up).

[PoorManQ45]

Well, your extreme skew in this conversation is showing that you obviously are not in the "average" range of American income...

Although it's none of your business, you assume that because I hold values and character commonly associated with the wealthy, that I am wealthy.

Your assumptions are wildly out of control, and your desperate and failed attempts to "be right" are getting old.

I understand what you're saying Greg, but your actions and purchase history shows otherwise...

Through your actions and purchase history it seems you're doing quite well. That's good

[AZhitman]

You'll learn very quickly how I get jobs.

Oral in the parking lot?

This is the internet, I can, and will, display my ignorance openly.

FTFY.

[PoorManQ45]

He is extremely supportive of the idea that the company is being hurt by an employee leaving suddenly, but believes that the employee should have not rights if they are terminated without notice. That thought process is indicative of a well off individual.

OMG.

WHAT RIGHTS DO YOU EXPECT??? TWO WEEKS NOTICE TO BE FIRED???

Screw it - You're too stupid to talk to. I give up (and I rarely, if ever, give up).

Wow, you're not getting it. You're saying that a company has no insurance or protection mechanisms in place to afford an employee leaving without notice?

But yet an employee should?

You are affording an employer the right to recoup losses, but not the employee. That employee usually has far more to lose then the minuscule amount that an employer has to spend looking for a new employee.

[PoorManQ45]

You'll learn very quickly how I get jobs.

Oral in the parking lot?

Alright, that was a good one. Thanks for bringing a bit of humor to this thread

This is the internet, I can, and will, display my ignorance openly.

FTFY.

I like when we agree buddy

[AZhitman]

I understand what you're saying Greg, but your actions and purchase history shows otherwise...

Through your actions and purchase history it seems you're doing quite well. That's good

Screw you.

Just because I lived well-below my means for 20 years (still do), avoided buying on credit, worked my a** off, don't smoke/drink/go out, never acted like a douche to my bosses, and have been smart with my income, doesn't give you the right to make such ignorant assumptions.

I'm just sorry your parents didn't teach you those valuable lessons. Sad.

[ADDirishboy]

I properly configured configuration will use WOL to power on the systems when updates are needed, then turn them back off when finished.

You're missing the point dude.....

I'm not doing anything to update the computers, except turn it on. Leave out all the computer savvy stuff and just look at that last bit. All I did was turn on a computer. That does NOT warrant itself as work. Period.

[Bubba1]

Brien, if you're still trying to convince us that what you did was perfectly fine, it's not going to happen. You solicited our input, and the overwhelming majority of us considered your actions wrong. Why are you still trying to fight us about it? We're not going to turn around and agree with you. This thread is a classic PMQ, you just keep going and going trying to prove your point and it just makes you look like an arrogant snot.

Some friendly advice: get rid of that chip on your shoulder, it's making you look bad.

[PoorManQ45]

I understand what you're saying Greg, but your actions and purchase history shows otherwise...

Through your actions and purchase history it seems you're doing quite well. That's good

Screw you.

Just because I lived well-below my means for 20 years (still do), avoided buying on credit, worked my a** off, don't smoke/drink/go out, never acted like a douche to my bosses, and have been smart with my income, doesn't give you the right to make such ignorant assumptions.

I'm just sorry your parents didn't teach you those valuable lessons. Sad.

I agree with your actions greg. Sorry I misjudge you. My parents, and myself, do the same thing. Don't buy fancy things, save up, and buy at significant discounts.

Sorry for being and arse.

I properly configured configuration will use WOL to power on the systems when updates are needed, then turn them back off when finished.

You're missing the point dude.....

I'm not doing anything to update the computers, except turn it on. Leave out all the computer savvy stuff and just look at that last bit. All I did was turn on a computer. That does NOT warrant itself as work. Period.

Atleast in Florida, that constitutes work.

Brien, if you're still trying to convince us that what you did was perfectly fine, it's not going to happen. You solicited our input, and the overwhelming majority of us considered your actions wrong. Why are you still trying to fight us about it? We're not going to turn around and agree with you. This thread is a classic PMQ, you just keep going and going trying to prove your point and it just makes you look like an arrogant snot.

Some friendly advice: get rid of that chip on your shoulder, it's making you look bad.

i agree with you guys that I could have kept my mouth shut and simply reported them to the labor board if I felt strongly about it. I did make the mistake of talking to a manager about it.

What this argument is coming from is that a lot of you are saying that the concept of an hourly employee working of the clock is the right thing to do.

[Jesda]

I don't understand what part of that is extreme.

There are certain realities in this world, small compromises you have to make and standards you have to exceed to move up in the world. You are failing to accept these realities. We're trying to help you out here, but you're digging your own grave.

He is extremely supportive of the idea that the company is being hurt by an employee leaving suddenly, but believes that the employee should have not rights if they are terminated without notice. That thought process is indicative of a well off individual.

Heh... NO.

If anything, small business are more direct about handling employees than large firms. Large firms are constantly concerned with liability and have entire departments (HR) to handle issues like this.

Go work for a Chinese or Korean restaurant opened by some struggling first-generation immigrants, then complain to them about having to show up 15 minutes early to setup your cooking station or fold silverware and napkins. You'll quickly find that small businesses with the most to lose are the least likely to tolerate someone's bull, because one man's BS has a large impact on total operating costs.

Its quite irrelevant what Greg's economic position is. The issue here is that instead of quietly performing your job, building a solid resume, and earning the respect of your peers and supervisors, you're more interested in side-issues. If you had a real passion for you work, you wouldn't be fixated on fifteen minutes.

And you certainly don't have to put up with things you find unjust -- you can leave or they can force you to leave. You can go work somewhere else or hire yourself and start a business. They don't have to keep you on for any reason.

You might find joy in the legal field.

[AppleBonker]

Just because I lived well-below my means for 20 years (still do), avoided buying on credit, worked my a** off, don't smoke/drink/go out, never acted like a douche to my bosses, and have been smart with my income, doesn't give you the right to make such ignorant assumptions.

Seriously. You must not know many people Brien. I have friends/family that own a nice set of cars and a nice house that don't make that much money. Conversely, I also know people who make a good amount of money and don't have any of these things because they waste their money on nearly everything they see. It's all in how you budget. If Greg came on here and said he made anywhere between $40-200k/year I honestly wouldn't be surprised. Purchase history has nothing to do with ANYTHING.

And as far as opinions go on these subjects, maybe people have friends or have worked closely with those in positions of power at various companies. I know people who are gay, I know people who are poor, etc. Am I not allowed to support or agree with their opinions because I'm not either of these things? Why is this so complicated to understand?

[Eikon]

Has the world forgotten that a job is a privilege and not a right? An employer has no responsibility to give any concessions.

[PoorManQ45]

Has the world forgotten that a job is a privilege and not a right? An employer has no responsibility to give any concessions.

Agreed, but an employee should not be penalized for leaving without notice either. Their penalty is that they won't get a reference out of that company.

[AppleBonker]

A lot of companies do not charge the employee for leaving without notice. But if they do, and you know up front about it, that's your problem for entering that workforce. My last job wouldn't have penalized me for leaving. However, I still gave two weeks to make sure that the friends I worked with didn't get buried with work in the wake of me leaving. If you don't like the methods the company uses, find another job?

Also, I began typing my previous response before reading the comment you directed at Greg. My bad.

[Eikon]

Has the world forgotten that a job is a privilege and not a right? An employer has no responsibility to give any concessions.

Agreed, but an employee should not be penalized for leaving without notice either. Their penalty is that they won't get a reference out of that company.

You are exactly right. The employee has every right to walk off the job on the spot. Employers may not like that of course, and are likely to give a poor referral to anyone who checks that employee's reference.


Oh, and for the record... I think you got screwed. I think you should be paid for the time that you are at your desk as long as you are putting that time toward the requirements of your job. Opening up computer programs that are required to be productive should be paid time, not personal time. Your job is to have yourself there and be ready to work.
The only instance in which I would say it was OK is if this idea was explained to you in detail during the hiring process. If they gave you prior knowledge and you chose to take the job after knowing of that policy, then you were agreeing to the policy by taking the job.

[Bubba1]

[

What this argument is coming from is that a lot of you are saying that the concept of an hourly employee working of the clock is the right thing to do.

Exactly. If you have aspirations for promotion, and raises, the answer is YES. Those that put in the extra effort off the clock (and 15 minutes is very little)are much more likely to get noticed, recognized, promoted than those that don't. In every case? No. But If you feel you are not getting the recognition for extra efforts.... you're free to leave and find another better job that does. This is really basic stuff, dude. It's disturbing to learn that you don't already know this.

[Infinitiguy19]

Our individual computers are completely shut down every day before we leave. This is too conserve energy and money needed to keep those systems connected whilst the computer sleeps. So there was no way for our computers to update themselves while we were away. And it's not like I was actually updating the computer. It automatically searched out and installed updates while it booted. All I did was press a power button and type in my user name and password. I hardly think that qualifies as work.

And TBH, if that DOES qualify as work to you, you need to seriously rethink your work ethic.

I properly configured configuration will use WOL to power on the systems when updates are needed, then turn them back off when finished.

Exactly!

And I will never be happy till two weeks notice is given to the employee that he is getting fired where there he is still required to work there or he is given a paid two weeks break. Its only fair and I don't understand how that can't be a good thing. Sure its not good to the employer but look at all the major banks getting money from the Government when they DON'T need it.

And really American companies should care more about the employees whether minimum wage or good salary.

I am glad this has a ending where we can all sort of agree.

[ADDirishboy]

Exactly!

And I will never be happy till two weeks notice is given to the employee that he is getting fired where there he is still required to work there or he is given a paid two weeks break. Its only fair and I don't understand how that can't be a good thing. Sure its not good to the employer but look at all the major banks getting money from the Government when they DON'T need it.

And really American companies should care more about the employees whether minimum wage or good salary.

I am glad this has a ending where we can all sort of agree.

The problem with letting people keep working that 2 weeks is that they will not care about their work. If I had been given 2 weeks notice when I was fired from my job, I would have yelled at customers every chance I got and not done any of my normal work. And paid two weeks? For what? You did something dumb to get fired. You don't deserve any extra pay.