Turboing a KADE

[WDRacing]

For a simple detonation only suppressant water is the best, but if you're looking to increase boost then methonal is the way to go. And I don't mean 50/50, I mean 100%.

So either use water only or all meth. Water is cheap and doesn't require a large volume to be very effective at knocking down egt's by the hundreds.

WD

[Ezzo]

I see, I was under the impression that the gains of methanol/water cooling are from cooling your intake charge further by evaporation. Therefore giving you a cooler denser air inhibiting knock or detonation. Not to be used as an alternate fuel source.

Like WD said about cooling the exhaust temps, that sounds like a nice tradeoff. I just like the idea of using WI opposed to an intercooler because to me it feels like it's more consistant and not really dependent on outside temperature or airflow to cool intake temps. Id imagine high humidity days would cause some problems with WI though. But you figure it's about 200$ to your door for a basic WI setup or an Ebay intercooler kit. So whats going to net the best gain per application. I may even be thinking about using WI in the compleatly wrong application or for the wrong perpose.

Edit: I know everyone will probly jump on me for saying that because the intercooler is a tryed and true, user friendly option. I'm just seeing more advantages from using WI.

Here's the thread that got me really looking into using WI.http://www.celicatech.com/foru...+piss


Modified by Ezzo at 11:12 AM 3/31/2007

[WDRacing]

It's not an unheard of idea or one that's unused even. Water intercooling has been around for decades. However, it's inefficient. By that I mean it's a wasteful setup because it requires refilling etc. The IC's of today are very decent and very affordable. $117 for a FMIC with coupling and pipes on EBAY. That will net you lots of daily driving without the need for water injection. Now lets say you use both. Then you gain the benefits of two systems that work very well and even better when used together.

When water is injected it completely turns to mist in the combustion chamber soaking up a few hundred degree's of EGT depending on the amount injected. This enables you to do multiple things. Run more timing, more boost or run the same setup over a really long period of time when the intercooler itself would have become heatsoaked and basically worthless.

Water injection is very common amoung autocross racers because the races are very long and they use antilag programs that superheat the combustion temps.

Using methonal is almost the same. It cools the combustion charge by effectivly increasing the fuel octane by about a 10 full points give or take. But it can also be used as a fuel source for more top end power when your stock injectors have maxed out. For instance, lets say your 370's max out at 15 psi. You don't need to pull timing because the ecu is doing that for you. So the best way to increase the boost would be a multistage injection setup or a variable injection setup. I would opt for variable because they work the best and are the easiest to tune.

So lets go with variable: We'll have the turn on point about 2-3 psi prior to you maxing out the stock injectors so the nozzle to pump lag time is removed. Now with a variable kit the methonal will start spraying at a low rate but it will increase as boost rises. How much it increases and the boost level for max flow are programmed via variable controller mounted in the cockpit.

With most variable spray injection kits you can easily add 8-10 lbs of boost. Figure thats about 100WHP on the average. Which is why I run methanol on every boosted vehicle I've ever owned.

WD

[Ezzo]

Thankyou you answered almost every question I had. +1 to you and chezedik

[WDRacing]

Cheze is my b1tch

[Chezedik]

Nice DubD, You think 370's are good to 15psi? What turbo? Anywho, glad I can help Ezzo, if I can help any further, shoot me an email.

[WDRacing]

Well I was using 15 psi as a reference, but depending on the fuel pump and fuel pressure you could probably run a full bar of boost.

WD

[Chezedik]

Yeah, I have some 370s coming, unfortunately I had to sell the 555's, but will get some more later. Do you know if having the intake and exhaust cams switched would cause low vacuum? What do you read on your boost gauge for vacuum?

[WDRacing]

Not enough lift or dur to cause a big vaccum loss. I always reference my vacuum from the intake manifold.

[Chezedik]

That is what I have done. Just removed every bit of emissions equipment and put a new Hondata Intake gasket on with Ultra Black (that stuff is stronger than Super Glue!). I am only getting 10" Hg of vacuum. I can only assume that the cams are the problem (but the alignment is correct) or bad rings (but compression is perfect 160psi).

Maybe my BOV or WG has a leak, IDK, any idea?

[WDRacing]

When I used RTV with a intake gasket it caused leaks.

[coolbone28]

I think 10" is alot of vac to loose with a leak. I had 10-12" when my cams were slightly off. Now with them deffinatly right i get 20-23".

[Chezedik]

Last time I checked it with the boost leak checker, it held to 60psi, and blew up my tester. I will see if I can get it back together again and see if that helps. I will also double check that the cams are in the right position. I can't help but to think that if the BOV is the culprit, it wouldn't work, and it blows at 0"-2psi (stock injectors, waiting for new ones). What about IACV, if it is clogged and dirty can it cause a vacuum leak, say if it were stuck open? Plugging the hose going to it would be a good check there, right.

Sorry to jack this thread so hard, but I am pretty sure it is dead.

[WDRacing]

Well, is your BOV vented to return? It should be.

The IACV is enlosed, if it was stuck wide open you'd simply have a high idle.

Spray down the whole intake with carb or brake cleaner, if the idle drops anywhere, thats where the leak is. I'm pretty sure you know this already, I'm just saying it for piece of mind.

I was thinking, the cams won't cause bad idle, but having them off a tooth will. I had this problem with my Skyline. The exhaust cam was retarded one tooth. Took me forever to figure out. Ran fine other then idle.

Just an idea.

WD

[Chezedik]

Checked cam timing at TDC and they are directly across from each other. Again, I wonder if there could be a problem with the cams being switched.

The thing won't idle really well, but it revs pretty good except for popping (a little rich, think I have bad o-rings, but I will change them with the new injectors.)

I wasn't sure about the IACV, but in any case I think you are right, it may need a good cleaning but it should be fine.

I will check compression and verify that it is good and then verify that the intake cam is in the right place.

I have done the carb cleaner trick, but that was before the new gasket I will try again later.

Wish me luck.

[WDRacing]

Cheze check this out. zerothread/239457

[Chezedik]

Done and done.