To all M37/M56 owners - Fix for the Nav/Bluetooth/iPod issue

[Blastphemy]

Infiniti has recently released a VSC (Voluntary Service Campaign) for all Infiniti M37 and M56 models.

This VSC will allow the Infiniti dealership to perform an update on the navigation software and subsequently fix any navigation, mobile phone, and iPod functions that may not have been working as intended. There is no charge for parts or labor.

Several of the M37 and M56 owners on NICO have mentioned that tracking doesn't seem properly locate them and traffic/weather updates are not pushed to the car. Some other have mentioned that there were some synchronization issues between their phone and the M.

This campaign WILL fix those issues.

When making an appointment with your local Infiniti dealership to have this update installed, please mention Reference# ITB10-031 to your service representative/consultation so they can properly pinpoint this VSC.

Also, reference this thread for all other Voluntary Service Campaigns available for the Infiniti M37 and M56.

ITB10-031 was released on July 9, 2010 and, unfortunately, did not fix any many noticeable issues. Hopefully some future Infiniti update will fix all the computer quirks with the 2011 M, but until that happens, we're still stuck with XM NavTraffic that barely functions, numerous bugs with iPod/iPhone integration, and a host of other problems.

The complete text of that service update was...

SERVICE CAMPAIGN BULLETIN: ITB10-031

SUBJECT: Campaign Announcement - Infiniti Navigation Software Update Voluntary Service Campaign

SUMMARY: Infiniti is conducting a Voluntary Service Campaign on certain MY 2010 G37 Sedan, G37 Coupe, G37 Convertible, EX35, FX35/FX50 vehicles and MY 2011 M37/M56 vehicles to reprogram the software for the Navigation, Communications, and Entertainment systems. (Check Service COMM to confirm campaign eligibility.)

Due to some software programming issues, navigational maps, voice recognition commands, phone books transfers, and iPod/iPhone interfaces may not be working as intended. The Navigation, Communication, and Entertainment systems will be reprogrammed with updated software to correct these conditions.

In addition, Infiniti is aware of customer concerns regarding compatibility with the iPod Touch. Apple has addressed this issue, and updated software for the iPod Touch will be available via iTunes and the Apple website this month. In the meantime, Infiniti has developed a workaround that will also be installed during this service.

DETAILED INFORMATION: The attached campaign announcement will be sent to all Infiniti retailers via the portal NNAnet.com on Friday, July 9, 2010.

Unfortunately, the following problems are NOT fixed by this software patch:

NAVIGATION:
• XM NavTraffic does not reliably (if ever) warn verbally about traffic congestion on a route; doesn't indicate where green "traffic flowing" conditions exist along a route (and therefore can't show traffic conditions along an entire route); frequently doesn't show adverse traffic conditions under "Info on Route" that inexplicably do appear under "Nearby Traffic Info"; and takes significantly longer to acquire traffic information than my 2008 M (5 minutes vs. 5 seconds). If you've been driving a 2008-model Infiniti with XM NavTraffic, you'll immediately see the difference and be very unhappy.
• When listing traffic conditions for "Nearby Traffic Info," XM NavTraffic doesn't specify the highway direction (e.g., I-405 South), thereby requiring the driver to take the extra step of selecting the condition detail to see on which direction the congestion, accident, or closure is located.
• The nav system can't find street addresses on Grand Avenue in downtown Los Angeles such as Disney Hall (111 S. Grand Ave), the KPMG Building (355 S. Grand Ave), and Music Center (135 N. Grand Ave). Instead, the system sends you to San Pedro, CA! (Makes you wonder if there are any other major streets missing in all that data…)
• Saying "Traffic Information" with Voice Recognition turns on/off traffic reporting functionality instead of taking you to the main traffic information screen (like saying "Fuel Economy" takes you to the fuel economy screen).
• When on a route and searching for Places, there's no way to search for outlying Places that aren't along the route, near the destination, or near the current location.
• There is no ability to see more than five selections when searching for Places with Voice Recognition.
• The nav system no longer sets the "Home" selection as the default initial choice when pressing the "Destination" button while driving.
• If you're on the Status screen while a route is set, and you then press ROUTE and "Cancel Route", after the route is canceled you're taken to the Map screen and not back to the Status screen.
• The navigation system should say, "Stay on I-405 South" when a secondary highway splits off instead of saying, "Follow I-405 South" as if you're merging onto a completely different road.

IPOD:
• There is no way to switch back to the current list of songs playing on a connected iPod, unlike with the CD or Music Box interfaces which can return you to the track list in progress.
• When visually scrolling through songs, you must press the steering wheel's menu select button down to scroll down through the list. But once you've selected your song and it's playing, you now have to illogically press up on the switch to select the next track down on the playlist.
• When the iPod/USB is on "Now Playing" screen, pressing DISC/AUX button switches to Disc/CD instead of first taking the driver to the iPod main menu (as if you selected "Menu").

PHONE:
• When taking a Bluetooth phone call, the CD/iPod/Music Box is not automatically paused.
• No ability to switch between callers using the Phone button on the steering wheel or Voice Recognition when a Call Waiting beep is received. Instead, the driver has to pick up her cell phone, take her eyes off the road, and physically press the "flash" button.
• No capability to see the Caller ID on your display of a second caller on Call Waiting (at least when using an AT&T iPhone 4, Verizon LG VX-8360, or LG Chocolate 3 via Bluetooth).
• The phone system can no longer redial the most recent number called on a paired Bluetooth cell phone simply by pressing the Talk switch and saying "Redial" (which it could in the 2008 M).
• When "sending digits" for extensions and passcodes, "pound" and "star" are available with that feature, but "pause" isn't. (Also, this feature isn't even mentioned in the car's operating manual or navigation system instructions!)

OTHERS:
• The computer frequently freezes after trying to store a Voice Tag for an address book entry.
• One can't set the power-folding mirrors to automatically fold in when the engine is turned off, and then always open out when the engine is turned on.
• The doors automatically lock at speeds above 15 mph without giving the driver any ability to disable the feature or customize its functionality.
• The Intelligent Key can remotely roll down your windows by holding the unlock button, but it can't roll them back up by holding the lock button.
• Customization of warning/intervention systems in the Technology Package (FCW, LDW, BSW, DCA, LDP, BSI, IBA) should be centralized under the Settings button in the nav system interface, and should allow each individual system to be disabled separately.
• Certain settings and customizations (such as turning on Welcome Lighting) require an unusual series of strange steps instead of just being a simple preference via the Settings button.
• The driver should have the option of seeing either (i) a simple basic set of system settings, or (ii) an expanded set of advanced preferences to control every aspect of the car's functionality, like one can choose between Standard Voice Recognition and Alternate Command Mode.
• The navigation system can't be set to a "minimal mode" that doesn't bother the driver with verbal notices when driving on a highway unless the driver needs to exit or change freeways.
• No way to turn off Active Noise Control (if for no other reason than to see how well it works).
• No daytime running lights (like in Canadian models).
• When headlights are manually turned on during the daytime, there is still no way to override the automatic dimming of button indicator lights.
• The cigarette lighter for charging cell phones does not stay powered on when the engine is off, nor does the stereo. But the power windows, map lights, and HomeLink inexplicably do!

Most, if not all of these issues should be fixable by a software update. Although it's quite possible that some issues (like the Intelligent Key rolling up your windows, daytime running lights, customization of warning systems, and continuous power to the cigarette lighter & stereo after turning off the car) require a hardware upgrade that isn't practical for the 2011 model year.

[Blastphemy]

While the VSC did provide smaller updates for the navigation it's main focus was for to update the connectivity between the iPhone/iPod and the car. It updated the MV and addressed/removed any irregularitie.s with navigation maps, voice recognition commands, phone book transfer FROM MOBILE PHONES to the vehicle and increased the number of entires that can be stored.

Infiniti also included a developmental fix for the iPod touch in this VSC.

So while it's main focus was to update and provide fixes for any mobile phone issues, it did provide a smaller update to the navigation system and traffic/weather updates. That update was found on Disc 2/3 (Yellow) and would remove any issues with traffic/weather data not being pushed to the car. However, it cannot fix any issues that XM may have with the servers that allow the data push to complete without issue.

3/4ths of the issues you mentioned are USER complaints with the design of the system. Too bad you can't have the status screen return back to that screen rather than the map screen. Too bad the outside mirrors don't have the fold-up functionality. Too bad the IK can't roll up the windows....

I'm glad you find your own M perfect - that's good, as it will help Infinit's sales to have satisfied customers. However, if unsatisfied customers don't report the deficiencies the fanboys miss (or don't care about, even though they paid $65k+), then Infiniti might never resolve those problems. It's never wrong to give a company constructive critical feedback, and it's never wrong to inform other consumers about problems that may impact their purchasing decision.

I'm not concerned that my identified deficiencies will detract too much from the car's power, design, and comfort, since the positive aspects of the 2011 M far outweigh the negative. But it doesn't mean the car can't be improved, especially when its competitors in the same class don't have the same problems (or, in the case of the BMW 5-series, have features that the M doesn't have but should, like the Around-View monitor found in the FX, QX, and EX.)

When I buy a car in this luxury class, I expect a certain amount of refinement; and being able to fold in my mirrors when the engine is off using a switch that isn't backwards is just one example. It doesn't ruin my day, but my daughter's less-expensive Cadillac can do this, and I admit that's a little annoying.

Regarding your response quoted above, you may think that VSC resolved all the issues you mention, but I haven't seen any empirical evidence to completely support your assertions.

While there are definitely some tangible fixes that can be verified -- such as issues with the iPhone phone book transfer and USB port "losing" an iPod touch -- that software patch did nothing noticeable for traffic/weather data. If you have specific examples of what navigation, traffic, and weather issues were fixed by this patch, please provide them so I can test.

BTW, you erroneously blame XM's servers for the problem with NavTraffic, which means I didn't adequately explain the problem. Here's a good example: I demonstrated this problem to my dealer by having us drive a 2008 M and 2009 G side-by-side with a 2011 M and a 2010 FX that had both received ITB10-031. All vehicles entered the same destination that utilized a freeway we knew had traffic (thanks to sigalert.com).

Immediately after entering the destination, the 2008 and 2009 Infinitis warned about traffic congestion and showed the complete route under "Info Along Route." But after five minutes, the 2010 and 2011 Infinitis still didn't show anything under "Info Along Route" and never got a verbal warning...even though we were both almost at a standstill in traffic. When the dealer's driver checked "Nearby Traffic Info," he saw some of the traffic noted, so XM data was indeed being received, but "Info Along Route" was unable to ever return that data. He also noticed that the "Traffic" word shown on the main map screen always showed green, even when the map itself was showing a red or yellow line along the route to indicate he was in traffic.

Therefore, it is not a problem with XM's servers, but rather a problem with Infiniti's programming. The proverbial left hand doesn't seem to know what the right hand is doing, and the system isn't consistently sharing the traffic information internally to the "Nearby Traffic," "Info on Route," and traffic warning interfaces. (Judging by the rather course language used by the general manager at my dealership, he wasn't at all happy that this brand new car couldn't even match the NavTraffic performance of a 2008 M. He promised a call as high up the chain as he could go to get it fixed, since he owned a 2011 M too and now it's pissing him off!)

[Blastphemy]

Hopefully the just-announced iOS4.1 software for iPhone/iPod Touch will fix any remaining interface bugs with our Infinitis! Can't wait to cross those problems off the list

SEPTEMBER 1, 2010. CUPERTINO, CA: Apple will release a free update to its mobile operating system next week that fixes many bugs while introducing several new features to iOS. The company showed off those features Wednesday during its fall music media event in San Francisco...

...A number of bugs have also been squashed in iOS 4.1. Jobs said the update would address proximity sensor issues with the iPhone 4 as well as problems with Bluetooth connectivity and audio quality. In addition, the iOS 4.1 update should improve sluggish performance on older iPhone 3G models...

...iOS 4.1 will be released by September 10th, while iOS 4.2 is expected to be released sometime in November.

[Blastphemy]

Let's get things straight - most of the items you listed above with your Infiniti M56 are NOT classified as "problems", contrary to your belief. Instead your list is chock-full of features not presently available on the car, rather than those technical issues that could be fixed. I don't believe that my Infiniti M45 is "perfect" nor did I ever say that, but I have the ability to locate those missing features or negative items when purchasing a vehicle and either subside to the fact that they won't be present on that vehicle or look elsewhere to find a vehicle that can relate more to what I am looking to purchase. If you applied that same thought process when purchasing your Infiniti M56, you may have been more satisfied with your final vehicle purchase.

Before continuing with this post, I'd like to help you comprehend the difference between user complaints/non-present features and technical complaints, therefore I've narrowed down your list to just those technical issues:

NAVIGATION:
• XM NavTraffic does not reliably (if ever) warn verbally about traffic congestion on a route; doesn't indicate where green "traffic flowing" conditions exist along a route (and therefore can't show traffic conditions along an entire route); frequently doesn't show adverse traffic conditions under "Info on Route" that inexplicably do appear under "Nearby Traffic Info"; and takes significantly longer to acquire traffic information than my 2008 M (5 minutes vs. 5 seconds). If you've been driving a 2008-model Infiniti with XM NavTraffic, you'll immediately see the difference and be very unhappy.
• The nav system can't find street addresses on Grand Avenue in downtown Los Angeles such as Disney Hall (111 S. Grand Ave), the KPMG Building (355 S. Grand Ave), and Music Center (135 N. Grand Ave). Instead, the system sends you to San Pedro, CA! (Makes you wonder if there are any other major streets missing in all that data…)

PHONE:
• When taking a Bluetooth phone call, the CD/iPod/Music Box is not automatically paused.

OTHERS:
• The computer frequently freezes after trying to store a Voice Tag for an address book entry.

In providing Infiniti with constructive critical feedback and informing potential purchasers with the above technical issues, I have no issue with. Providing them with a laundry list of unavailable features, such as what you had originally listed, I have issue with. I've asked myself several times what your true motive is - to turn off potential buyers to the BMW 5-series that you mentioned or to actually try to have these features added to future updates/models?

As a side note, you mentioned that competitors in the same class don't have similar problems, specifically citing the BMW 5-series. Obviously you live in a bubble confined to only the issues you have with your Infiniti. The BMW 5-Series is known to have many issues with mobile phone connectivity, so bad that it won't connect to some of the most popular phones on the market. The BMW 5-Series' I-Drive system is also known to consistently freeze when entering a location in the navigation system that isn't located in the same state as were the owner is located. But, most importantly, the BMW 5-Series is known to have a SEVERE issue with the high pressure fuel pump used by the engine - causing many 5-Series owners to have their car's engine loose power and completely shutdown, many of the incidences even occurring when the owners were traveling at high speeds on a highway: "High pressure fuel pump malfunctioned while merging on a freeway on-ramp, resulting in a near rear-end collision as the vehicle suddenly slowed due to the malfunction" (10217997) & "Malfunctioned coming off of the freeway in Los Angeles resulting in complete loss of power. This has put me and my family's life in danger" (10243352).

Your navigation/iPod/phone/other issues seem to pale in comparison to having complete loss of control of your vehicle, doesn't it? Guess the 5-Series isn't as impeccable as you so choose to believe.

Back to the topic at hand - the navigation system and traffic/weather updates were contained in Disc 2/3. Infiniti does not provide a description of what these updates were inclusive of, only providing me with one line of description via NNANet- "ELIMINATES CONNECTIVITY DIFFICULTY IN ALL MODELS EQUIPPED WITH XM NAVWEATHER® AND XM NAVTRAFFIC®". Did the technician install Disc 2/3 (Yellow Disc) on your Infiniti M56? If your map version read the following: "09-10 MAP No.1b" before installing the discs then they did not. That would explain why you have yet to have your traffic/weather connectivity issues resolved.'

Yes, everything was installed. I even verified it at a second dealership. The problems I described with XM NavTraffic have not been resolved. Not sure why you're so adamant that they were, considering you're apparently not even driving a 2011 M to know first-hand. You can't even present first-hand observations to prove your assertions, so I don't know why you think I'll believe your vacuous statements over my own eyes (and the eyes of the head service techs at two separate dealerships).

I find it quite funny that you're so annoyed by the fact that this update didn't make any major improvements to a car you don't even drive. It's even funnier that you're now apparently confusing NAVTEQ updates with Infiniti updates. "09-10 MAP No.1b" is the version of the NAVTEQ map data, and it's the only one available. (NAVTEQ expects to have a new 10-11 version out in November/December 2010, but not until then, and it won't be free.)

There's no point in responding to the rest of your post because I'm not having an intelligent discussion with an open-minded, considerate individual; but rather a myopic fanboy whose only purpose is to force through his unsubstantiated opinions as facts. When you start accusing a person of pushing a competing brand that he doesn't even drive simply because he mentioned a feature it has that his own car logically should have but doesn't, you're just being foolish and childish.

[Blastphemy]

I'm not "confusing" NAVTEQ updates with "Infiniti updates". Again, let's get things straight, they are updates from Clarion which update the internal components and workings of those components. Released by Infiniti - Yes. Manufactured by Infiniti - No. I mentioned the Map Version Number because the installation order of the Clarion CDs were based off this number. If "09-10 MAP No.1b" was displayed then only the third disk was to be installed, if not, all three Clarion CDs were to be installed. Furthermore, most 2011 Infiniti models were manufactured to include the "09-10 MAP No.1b" MV, so you wouldn't (or rather, shouldn't) have had Discs 1/3 or 2/3 installed. Speak to both of the dealerships that you've leached to since you've created your obnoxious list of complaints and I'm 100% certain that they will confirm this, then sulk in your stupidity.

Simply because I do not drive a 2011 M37 or M56 does not mean I am not as well versed in the car as an owner would be. In all reality, I have probably sat in and driven the Infiniti M37 and Infiniti M56 more times than you have with your M56 and have explored more functionality and components with the M than you have. That's what comes with being a close family member of the owner of the largest Infiniti dealership in the United States and what comes with being an Nissan Regional CSR for 2 years.

I'm not really annoyed that you don't think this update has not improving any issues in the car. I'm more annoyed at a user with 18 posts of complaint after complaint. Not once have you contributed positively to the community or acted in accordance with the family behavior all users on NICO strive to have.

Oh, I thought I would let you know that OMS/NMMC shows no records of your NavTraffic/NavWeather complaint being logged with the system. If it's not there - it's not getting fixed. Not sure how much power you think your Service Manager has.

End of me replying to this thread. Don't even bother replying to my last message.
I'm not going to waste my time on someone who is full of complaints and acts insolent and offensive when provided with any smidgen of help.

I'm sorry that you're not able to discuss these issues dispassionately and factually. There's really no need to get so angry just because the brand your "close family relative" sells has some flaws. No one expects a 1st-year model revision to be perfect (except, apparently, you).

A smart, reasonable person with as much insider influence as you supposedly have would get on the horn and call his brother-in-law's uncle's second cousin who owns the "largest" Infiniti dealership to start the ball rolling on getting those issues into OMS/NMMC to fix the flaws so that the mean ol' man making you so mad online can't complain about the problems anymore! And in doing so, you'd make the product that much better, which would translate to higher sales, which would mean you'd be able to drive even more cars from the parking lot to the service garage! Seriously -- if you have that much power, put it to good use for me and all other Infiniti customers!

If you drive 2011 Ms (and 2010 FXs and 2011 QXs) as much as you say, and also have access to 2008/2009 Ms, you'd know what I was talking about regarding XM NavTraffic. Since you're not aware of these issues, I really can't believe anything you say regarding such. (I know, I know... because I made you so mad you're just being stubborn now, hoping that no one will test this on their own 2010+ Infinitis and discover I'm right.) When infantile hyperbole such as "I have probably sat in and driven the Infiniti M37 and Infiniti M56 more times than you have with your M56" starts entering the conversation, a smart person knows there's no chance for a reasonable conversation. It's too bad, because you obviously have some useful insider knowledge.

If it helps, your information about Clarion was very interesting, albiet not very logical. Why would Infiniti ship a software patch that includes fixes that would only get installed if a certain disc was used that shouldn't be used? Very silly and circular, but I'll pose the query to my two local dealerships and see how each responds. If you could, please clarify what you mean -- are you really saying that the XM NavTraffic fixes are on the second disc, but that the second disc should not be installed on a car with 09-10 MAP No.1b...the version that all recent Infinitis actually have? Really?!

Regardless, despite your "facts" (i.e., unsupported opinions), XM NavTraffic does not work nearly as well in any 2010+ Infiniti vehicle with the newer navigation system as well as it currently works in the 2008/2009 vehicles. But if you're happy having certain systems on your car function more poorly than in previous model years and in competitors' models, then I'm glad you're satisfied. It takes a very confident man to settle for second-best and good-enough.

BTW, I apologize if my writing style gives the impression of being too aggressive and intentionally demeaning in any way; sarcasm doesn't come through very well on message boards, and smiley faces rarely erase a reader's negative impression when they're in the mood to be insulted. I will strive to improve my discourse so that it meets the forum's standards. I don't suffer fools, which has made me the successful bastard that I am, but I admit my style rubs certain people the wrong way who don't appreciate having the mickey taken out of them. I'm really not trying to be mean...really! It's just the Boston Irish in me.

[Danno_NJ]

Hi guys,

I will add my experience again:

Only once did I hear it say anything about a route I was on. It was a road construction alert. This area I happen to drive through has long term on going road construction (center median/bridge repair). It said: "Road construction in 7 miles from your current location on map, construction for x number of miles -- Do you want to DETOUR?" With a yes/no option on the screen to tap. If you ignore it, it just selects No. This was during an active route.

Not once have I heard it announce any traffic congestion, accidents, alerts, etc. even though there definitely is some listed on the way (listed in "Traffic Info" option), but the "Info on Route" option has 'No data received' at all times.

My previous car would interrupt and tell you about "Traffic congestion ahead in 1 mile", "Accident ahead in 1 miles", "Flags cones/lane shift ahead in 1 mile", even if you were not on an active route and being navigated. It was always monitoring just like how weather alert does. Near the Lincoln Tunnel to get into NYC, there is always some type of congestion. No alerts.

I am not complaining, but I have to agree with Blastphemy that the data is there coming down from XM, but the NAV software may have some sort of glitch with passing the data with the current route/location.

On the other hand: Weather alerts seem to be working just fine. Right after starting the car within a minute or so, it may say "excessive heat warning around your current location", "flood warning 15 miles from your location" or just today, Earl is coming up the east coast --it said "Tropical storm warning, 15 miles from your current location" You can even look at the radar map and catch a glimpse.

So that's working.

Road construction alert on route has worked, but Traffic congestion/accidents/alerts/incidents are not. It's hard to say that is how it was intended to work. I can hardly find a reason to pay XM for this added traffic service with all of those features working at 100%, but I sure won't pay if it isn't going to give any useful information. XM should get on Infiniti to fix it for their own pockets

Do the < 2010 model NAV's announce alerts even when you are not even on an active route?

DNJ

[AZhitman]

What happened to the rest of the posts lol

Blastphemy's roommate was being a douchenozzle. Back to the topic.

[Blastphemy]

What happened to the rest of the posts lol

I sincerely apologize to the forum - as AZhitman notes, one of my roommates thought he was being helpful by posting his own 2 cents under an account created on my computer, hence the matching IP address. I asked AZhitman to delete that account, which he graciously did. At least I didn't get tricked into responding to my own roommate online! (His writing style is rather distinctive, so I'd like to think I would have caught those posts before the administrator if I'd logged on in time. Oh, well. Guess I'll be checking the "notify me when a reply is posted" checkbox from now on!) In my roommate's defense, he does actually drive a 2011 M37, but he shouldn't have used my computer and old e-mail address to post.

Getting back to the topic at hand, I now have a consumer affairs technician meeting me at the dealership next week to verify the NavTraffic problem (which the friendly person from Infiniti who called me said they'd already duplicated at their location, but needed to come out for procedure). So hopefully that will lead to the issue being resolved by Infiniti's programmers once the senior person coming out sees the problem with his own eyes.

Don't worry - I'll bring up all the other complaints I have too!! Who knows...by next year my car may be nearly perfect

[AZhitman]

I'm going to print a copy of this as well and run through it with the local dealer, just to see what their response is.

We have occasion to meet with folks from Infiniti Corporate now and again, maybe we'll bring it up to them as well.

[Blastphemy]

I now have a consumer affairs technician meeting me at the dealership next week to verify the NavTraffic problem (which the friendly person from Infiniti who called me said they'd already duplicated at their location, but needed to come out for procedure). So hopefully that will lead to the issue being resolved by Infiniti's programmers once the senior person coming out sees the problem with his own eyes.

Last week's meeting with Infiniti at the dealership didn't happen due to Labor Day and then the Jewish holidays, but I did get several update calls from Consumer Affairs letting me know the progress.

Apparently, the first-level support staff bumped my report up to a higher tier and is being reviewed internally by their engineers. I had originally been asked to meet on Tuesday this week, but then I got a call back saying the engineers needed to do some more internal evaluations before seeing my specific vehicle. The representative speculated that a meeting might not be necessary since the document I faxed over was very thorough and identified an XM NavTraffic problem that potentially affects all 2010/2011 Infinitis.

On another note, I'm still waiting to hear back regarding my question to him from September 1st: "Why would Infiniti ship a software patch that includes fixes that would only get installed if a certain disc was used that shouldn't be used? If you could, please clarify what you mean -- are you saying that the XM NavTraffic fixes are on the second disc, but that the second disc should not be installed on a car with 09-10 MAP No.1b...the version that all recent Infinitis actually have?"

Here's the "extra" list of issues I eventually faxed over to Consumer Affairs in addition to my detailed NavTraffic dissection, in case anyone is curious. I tried to avoid complaining about anything that either sounded more like a "wish list" item (like expanding the Voice Recognition commands) or would be impossible to resolve until the next model year (like adding Around-View Monitor to the car). I'll let everyone know what happens with Consumer Affairs as the process proceeds. The person directly assisting me sounds genuinely concerned about the list below, and told me that the upper-level people to whom she spoke appreciated the customer feedback, even if it won't be possible to resolve every single point.

XM NavTraffic® and NAVIGATION SYSTEM
• Unlike my 2008 M, the nav system can't locate street addresses on Grand Avenue in downtown Los Angeles such as Disney Hall (111 S. Grand Ave), KPMG (355 S. Grand Ave), and Music Center (135 North Grand Ave). Instead, the system always sends you to San Pedro, CA.
• Saying "Traffic Information" using Voice Recognition doesn't take you to the main traffic information screen (like saying "Weather Information" takes you to the main list of weather information). Instead, it turns off/on the Traffic Information System.
• When listing traffic conditions for "Nearby Traffic Info," XM NavTraffic doesn't specify the highway direction (e.g., I-405 South) in the list. This requires the driver to manually select the condition detail to see on which direction the congestion, accident, or closure is located.
• No ability to see more than five selections when searching for Places with Voice Recognition. It would be great if the driver could say "next" to get another five, then another five, etc.
• When on a route and searching for Places, there's no way to search for outlying Places that aren't along the route, near the destination, or near the current location.
• It would be better if the navigation system said, "Stay on I-405 South" when a secondary highway splits off from a route instead of saying, "Follow I-405 South" as if you're merging onto a completely different highway/road. Also, the total miles shown before the driver's next "turn" should encompass the entirety of the time one is on a single highway instead of when the next "Stay on your current highway" event occurs (or add this as a preference to Settings).

DOOR SPEAKER
• The speaker in the front passenger door frequently exhibits a distracting sympathetic vibration.

iPOD and MUSIC BOX
• When taking a Bluetooth phone call, the CD/iPod/Music Box is not automatically paused.
• There is no way to switch back to the current list of songs playing on a connected iPod, unlike with the CD or Music Box interfaces which can return you to the track list in progress.
• When visually scrolling through songs, you must press the steering wheel's menu select button down to scroll down through the list. But once you've selected your song and it's playing, you now have to illogically press up on the switch to select the next track down on the playlist.

BLUETOOTH PHONE and ADDRESS BOOK
• The computer sometimes freezes after trying to store a Voice Tag for an address book entry.
• No capability to see the Caller ID on your display of a second caller on Call Waiting, at least when using a Verizon LG VX-8360 or LG Chocolate 3 via Bluetooth.
• No ability to switch between callers using the Phone button on the steering wheel or Voice Recognition when a Call Waiting beep is received. Instead, the driver has to pick up her cell phone, take her eyes off the road, and physically press the "flash" button.
• The user manual doesn't explain anywhere how to send digits (e.g., for extensions/passcodes) with Voice Recognition. Also, while "pound" and "star" are available, "pause" isn't.
• The phone system can't redial the most recent number called on a paired Bluetooth cell phone simply by pressing the Talk switch and saying "Redial" (like I could on my 2008 M45).

BUTTON INDICATOR LIGHTS and HEADLIGHTS
• When headlights are manually turned on during the daytime, there is no way to override the automatic dimming of button indicator lights.

INTERVENTION SYSTEMS
• There is no way to have the three intervention systems default to ON (just as one can change the default of the three equivalent warning systems to OFF as shown in the manual on 2-42).
• There is no way to selectively disable each of the warning systems (just as one can selectively disable each of the three equivalent intervention systems using Dynamic Assistance Settings).

SIDE MIRRORS
• The power-folding mirrors' armrest switch is backwards (pressing it outwards folds the mirrors inwards, and vice versa); and the switch doesn't even work at all if the car has been turned off.

SUN VISOR
• The sun visor does not fold forward enough, causing it to frequently block the driver's view of signs, streetlights, and/or vehicles more than a couple car lengths ahead, unless one normally sits very low in the car.
• When moved to the side window, the sun visor does not extend far enough back to completely block the sun for the length of the window. An extender (like I had on my 2008 M) would be a great addition.

[kluken]

DOOR SPEAKER
• The speaker in the front passenger door frequently exhibits a distracting sympathetic vibration.

They know about this, my car is in right now for both door panels and back deck. When I went in last week they asked me to reschedule becasue factory rep needs to be involved, they are getting numerous complaints about this. I have a a CD with 11 tracks that can reporduce most of the buzzy panels. One track I listened to with rep and I said sound s liek back deck too, he said no it sounds like all over is buzzing, so all 4 doors and back deck. So I suspect they will have my car a few days now to go over it.

[abrader]

this thread is interesting.

I got the rear wheel drive active steer update installed in my 2011 M37 but I did not get the nav/ ipod update installed yet.

I personally haven't noticed any issues and the guy at infiniti said that installing the update can break some stuff if I am not having problems...

My iphone 4 works fine for voice calls connected with BT and i use an ipod classic for music which also works fine.

I agree id like to back out of a song to the current playlist.

What do you guys think? Should I go ahead and get this other update installed? Anyone had any issues once installing it?

[abrader]

DOOR SPEAKER
• The speaker in the front passenger door frequently exhibits a distracting sympathetic vibration.

They know about this, my car is in right now for both door panels and back deck. When I went in last week they asked me to reschedule becasue factory rep needs to be involved, they are getting numerous complaints about this. I have a a CD with 11 tracks that can reporduce most of the buzzy panels. One track I listened to with rep and I said sound s liek back deck too, he said no it sounds like all over is buzzing, so all 4 doors and back deck. So I suspect they will have my car a few days now to go over it.

I have a slight case of this too - but what can they do to fix?>

[kluken]

I have a slight case of this too - but what can they do to fix?>

I'm sure they will put some padding behind the door panel, the right fix woudl be dynomat, but I'm sure they will use something less exotic. If they can;t quiet it enough I'm going to ask them to show me how to pull the door panels and I will get some dynomat or an equivalent and do it myself. Very annoying. And funny I suspect this ione of those Infiniti known design flaws as the loaner G37 they gave me has it a little in the passenger door. I love my M37s, but the biggest weaknesses I see Infiniti has with this car are the interior fit and finish, door panels, rear deck and dash all make noises. And their electronics are far inferior to what I am used to in Acura.

[AZhitman]

I intended to post up a "be nice" warning on your prior post, then decided to wait and see where you went.

Not getting the rise you wanted out of someone, then quoting yourself just to be a jackass leads me to believe you were being disingenuous when I assisted you with your prior issue.

Did I ban the wrong account?

[Blastphemy]

I intended to post up a "be nice" warning on your prior post, then decided to wait and see where you went.

Not getting the rise you wanted out of someone, then quoting yourself just to be a jackass leads me to believe you were being disingenuous when I assisted you with your prior issue.

Did I ban the wrong account?

infiniti_lineup claimed that VSC ITB10-031 fixed all the navigation problems with the 2010/11 model years. I disputed that, providing clear documentation. infiniti_lineup then said the fix was actually on the yellow second disc of three, but that it could only be applied to Infinitis that didn't have 09-10 MAP No.1b. I didn't understand that logic of that assertion, since every Infiniti manufactured since late 2009 has 09-10 MAP No.1b installed, so I asked infiniti_lineup to clarify - multiple times, granted - but he claims to have the expertise and insider contacts to explain his contradictory statements, and an answer would be extremely helpful.

infiniti_lineup also claimed access to certain internal systems and people that should enable him to readily report the problems in such a way that would result in quicker action, but has not confirmed he's done so for the betterment of the brand and all Infiniti customers (which, I assume, is because he still doesn't understand that his assertions were incorrect and believes that the navigation/computer systems functions perfectly now).

These are important issues, and infiniti_lineup should respond. But since he hasn't, I'm continuing to ask for an explanation. Holding someone's feet to the fire for their statements is in no way shape or form worthy of having an account blocked or being admonished by an administrator. I'm sure infiniti_lineup is a big boy and can defend his assertions quite capably without an administrator who is friends with him unilaterally removing the contradictory proof.

If the point of this forum is to only publicize the positive aspects of all Nissan/Infiniti cars, and deny that there are some fundamental flaws that could be fixed if enough people spoke up - including supposedly influential insiders like infiniti_lineup - then I understand the resistance to my comments.

But how can anyone with a 2010/11 Infiniti watch the various commercials for the Ford Edge (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xfgb-ZlCCw and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xyiZNtlbbk) - a $30,000 car - and not feel like their $60,000 navigation/computer system is years behind what should be considered standard, let alone revolutionary?

I'll stop egging on infiniti_lineup since he's likely never going to respond with support for his statements. But that should reflect more poorly on him than on me.

[Blastphemy]

I intended to post up a "be nice" warning on your prior post, then decided to wait and see where you went.

Also in my defense, I should point out that infiniti_lineup's initial response to my first post wasn't polite at all, but he didn't get a "be nice" warning:

Oh god, I hope you didn't write all of that just for this thread...

3/4ths of the issues you mentioned are USER complaints with the design of the system. Too bad you can't have the status screen return back to that screen rather than the map screen. Too bad the outside mirrors don't have the fold-up functionality. Too bad the IK can't roll up the windows....

If you're that unhappy, return the damn car.

Basically, "he started it."

Granted, I should have acted like more of a grownup and ignored his tone. My apologies for rising to the bait. I'll keep it civil going forward.

[AZhitman]

Holding someone's toes to the fire for their statements is in no way shape or form worthy of having an account blocked or being admonished by an administrator.

I think you misundersand your role as a user of a free service. You're not qualified or responsible to "hold someone's toes to the fire" (and the proper usage is "feet", not "toes") in this venue.

You weren't admonished for requesting clarification, you were admonished for being a jackass.

I'm sure infiniti_lineup is a big boy and can defend his assertions quite capably without an administrator who is friends with him unilaterally removing the contradictory proof.

If you're making an accusation that I, as the owner of this site, have removed anything from this thread (other than your supposedly moronic roommate's posts), then say so.

I resent your implication, not only that I'd remove something from a post to make someone look good, but I also resent your uninformed assumption that somehow I.L. is a "friend" (any more so than any other member here).

Next time you consider questioning my integrity, you'd better have something to back it up with. THAT will get you on my bad side quicker than anything.

If the point of this forum is to only publicize the positive aspects of all Nissan/Infiniti cars, and deny that there are some fundamental flaws that could be fixed if enough people spoke up - including supposedly influential insiders like infiniti_lineup - then I understand the resistance to my comments.

We don't mince words, and I'm not beholden to ANY outside influence. If something sucks, we say so. That's part of the beauty of being independent.

But how can anyone with a 2010/11 Infiniti watch the various commercials for the Ford Edge (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xfgb-ZlCCw and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xyiZNtlbbk) - a $30,000 car - and not feel like their $60,000 navigation/computer system is years behind what should be considered standard, let alone revolutionary?.

I wonder the same thing when I pull up to a stoplight in my C5 and wonder how it is that a G35 owner can be so excited about their acceleration. (I've owned both, so I speak from experience.)

BTW, your seats are sub-par for a $60K car too.

See? Different strokes, dude.

I'll stop egging on infiniti_lineup since he's likely never going to respond with support for his statements. But that should reflect more poorly on him than on me.

...and it very well may. That's for the reader to decide, not you.

...but he didn't get a "be nice" warning.

You don't know that for a fact, unless you're rooting through everyone else's PM's.

My apologies for rising to the bait. I'll keep it civil going forward.

Much appreciated. I have better things to do than babysit grown men with expensive cars and their roommates.

You've been provided a froum to air your complaints. In addition, those complaints have been made someplace that is frequented by staff from both Nissan and Infiniti Corporate. You're welcome.

Thanks!

[Blastphemy]

I'm sure infiniti_lineup is a big boy and can defend his assertions quite capably without an administrator who is friends with him unilaterally removing the contradictory proof.

If you're making an accusation that I, as the owner of this site, have removed anything from this thread (other than your supposedly moronic roommate's posts), then say so.

I resent your implication, not only that I'd remove something from a post to make someone look good, but I also resent your uninformed assumption that somehow I.L. is a "friend" (any more so than any other member here).

Next time you consider questioning my integrity, you'd better have something to back it up with. THAT will get you on my bad side quicker than anything.

I was merely responding to the implication that you were intending on deleting my account due to the nature of my comments, which would result in my posts disappearing, thereby leaving infiniti_lineup's assertions unchecked. No other connotations were intended.

Since on another occasion you had told me that you were discussing my posts with infiniti_lineup (and that he enjoyed our back-and-forth...which seems odd since he won't respond any more), that led me to believe you're friends with him. Apologies for insinuating an association that doesn't exist.

[AZhitman]

No worries - I have some info that may be of assistance, but it'll be a while befoer i can post it.

p.s. When we make someone "go away", we don't typically delete their posts. Those are the property of the forums.

[kluken]

I have a slight case of this too - but what can they do to fix?>

I'm sure they will put some padding behind the door panel, the right fix woudl be dynomat, but I'm sure they will use something less exotic. If they can;t quiet it enough I'm going to ask them to show me how to pull the door panels and I will get some dynomat or an equivalent and do it myself. Very annoying. And funny I suspect this ione of those Infiniti known design flaws as the loaner G37 they gave me has it a little in the passenger door. I love my M37s, but the biggest weaknesses I see Infiniti has with this car are the interior fit and finish, door panels, rear deck and dash all make noises. And their electronics are far inferior to what I am used to in Acura.

OK Dealer and factory rep had my car for 2 days and here is where we are at. The have made the doors quieter, but far from good. Already called service manager and said Strike 1. The back deck buzzes pretty bad now as well. They blame it on the rear window shade. I said I don't care about the rear window shade, unplug it and quiet the rear deck (had to do that on my 2002 I35). What I found most interesting is I had a loaner G37 for 2 days and after getting my M37S back became more disspointed in my M37S. After driving the base boner G37 for 2 days I find the transmission shifys in the M37 are sluggish and slow. I also find the M37S braking to be far worse than the G37 and in all honesty the G37 felt tighter built and this was a 7K mile G37 that was clearly beaten up. To me it became very clear that Infiniti has cut corners on the M37 to keep the weight and cost down, the M37 does not feel as substantial (especially since it is bigger and heavier than the G37) and the body does not feel as ridgid. The doors in the G37 close with a more solid feel and "thunk" than M37. Funny when I first drove the M37 I thought it felt more "tinny" than I exepcted, but I though it was becasue I was just used to teh different feel from my 09 AWD TL, but now doing direct comparison with G37 I can say I am questioning if the M is worth the price. I'm hoping the next G adds a better NAV screen and the tire pressure monitor in the info screen and honeslty I might drop down to a G when the 2012 hits. I told the dealer to tal to factory rep and coem up with an action plan he was very accomidating, he said the factory people took some valuable info back from my car on how to quiet it down. It is better, but needs to be better.

[fiveliterbeater]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

there's a reason why 80% of Infinti's revenue is off the G sedan (the rest being a mixture of the FX,EX,QX,M) ; because its that good of a car!
unfortunately only 1 succesful luxury car in a manufacturer's lineup doesnt work...

thats why Lexus in my opinion is so successful in the U.S. as the number one luxury car manufacturer (mind you i said U.S. and not the world). because every model is a success. the ES,IS,LS,RX...

i hope infiniti ties up all these loose ends and gets the M as respectable as the G!

[Blastphemy]

I now have a consumer affairs technician meeting me at the dealership next week to verify the NavTraffic problem (which the friendly person from Infiniti who called me said they'd already duplicated at their location, but needed to come out for procedure). So hopefully that will lead to the issue being resolved by Infiniti's programmers once the senior person coming out sees the problem with his own eyes.

Last week's meeting with Infiniti at the dealership didn't happen due to Labor Day and then the Jewish holidays, but I did get several update calls from Consumer Affairs letting me know the progress.

I now have a meeting with an Infiniti engineer at the dealership on Wednesday who - supposedly - will have a software update in-hand. I'll report back as to whether this resolves any of the issues I've reported in this and other threads.

Hopefully it will resolve my 2011 M56's XM NavTraffic problems, and also the same on my wife's 2010 FX50. Guess we'll see!

I'm also going to push hard on them to resolve the buzzing door panel problem, since it's actually gotten quite worse this past week. (But - if history is any indication - nothing will buzz on Wednesday because I'm at the dealership, and we all know problems magically disappear when one is at a dealership for a repair...)

[abrader]

It would be nice if the anti Infiniti social marketers could make their own threads that can be ignored and not spam up useful threads like this.

Posting a wish list of features and personal preferences and positioning them as technical failures of the 2011 m is silliness.

None of us want ford synch buddy. I don't even use microsft windows so it's very annoying from my prospective and no need to compare that kind of stuff in a public service thread like this. I don't like on star either so there.

Infiniti m systems are perfect for me. <3

[kluken]

I'm also going to push hard on them to resolve the buzzing door panel problem, since it's actually gotten quite worse this past week. (But - if history is any indication - nothing will buzz on Wednesday because I'm at the dealership, and we all know problems magically disappear when one is at a dealership for a repair...)

They actually have a special CD that runs through various frequency ranges. I also have a CD they used that I took samples form various tracks that tend to casue the panels and back deck to buzz. While I am still dissapointed in their failure to make it 100% quiet under normal use it is now much much better. The bigger problme is rear deck now, damn rear shade makes for a lousy rear deck design.

[Blastphemy]

None of us want ford synch buddy. I don't even use microsft windows so it's very annoying from my prospective and no need to compare that kind of stuff in a public service thread like this. I don't like on star either so there.

Infiniti m systems are perfect for me. <3

One person's garbage is another person's treasure. I'm glad you're happy with your M's technology. Happy customers will help Infiniti increase sales, which will enable them to spend more on research and development. Then perhaps the next M won't have to regress features and hardware to keep costs down.

"None of us" want Ford Sync? Hmmmm...a rather hyperbolic assertion, don't you think? As for On*Star, if I could have something in my Infiniti that would immediately notify emergency services automatically after an accident and have a live human being dial in to ask me if I'm injured, I'd sure get it!

[abrader]

Nah ill live.

BTW im gonna hammer my dealer to silence the door vibe.

[kluken]

None of us want ford synch buddy. I don't even use microsft windows so it's very annoying from my prospective and no need to compare that kind of stuff in a public service thread like this. I don't like on star either so there.

Infiniti m systems are perfect for me. <3

WOW maybe you live in a sheltered world, I can't speak to Ford Sync, but can say Infiniti Bluetooth and Navi system are in the dark ages compared to Acura. Coming from numerous Acura/Honda products I can say if I needed to rely on the M37 Bluetooth or Nav day in and day out I woudl be out of this car ina blink. Bluetooth sound quality is horrible and I knwo I am not alone my buddies G37 sounds as bad or wrose than my M37. As for Navi, well it is horrible to use, 2 different ways to enter places depending on whether you are using voice/moving of stopped/touch screen. Honestly I can easily see how the BT and NAV will make it an easy decison for the next car NOT to be an Infiniti. And let's not even talk about the lack of voice commands in the Infiniti, go try a Honda or Acura where you can controll dozen's more functions far more easily with voice than you can in Infiniti.

[Blastphemy]

Here is the full Voluntary Service Campaign in its flesh and blood. On the second page you will see an image of all three disks: Red, Yellow, & White. Be sure to note the disc numbers imprinted on each disc (Disc 1/3, 2/3, 3/3). Now, scroll down to the sixth page on the VSC - here you will find a portion of the instructions that the technician uses during the service process. You should see a sentence that states "If map version is 09-10 MAP No.1b.....Disc 1/3 and 2/3 will not be needed". As mentioned earlier, the Disc 2/3 is the disc that contains the navigation fix ("ELIMINATES CONNECTIVITY DIFFICULTY IN ALL MODELS EQUIPPED WITH XM NAVWEATHER® AND XM NAVTRAFFIC®"), however, as you can see by this publication, that disc was not installed on your vehicle because it had contained 09-10 MAP No.1b. The reasoning behind why IC did not allow this disc to be installed on your specific vehicle is unknown. Most would speculate their reason would have something to do with compatibility issues or something in that realm, but, again, it is unknown.

A person with some knowledge of the Infiniti system might recommend you do to do two things with the hopes of putting a positive close to your situation. The first being to have your local Infiniti Dealership test install all three disks, regardless of the recommendation by IC. However, performing more warranted technical work than recommended by Infiniti is against guidelines and most Dealerships will not entertain this method. Therefore, your second, and best, course of action would be to directly request the Service Manager at your local Infiniti Dealership to contact the Technical Help Line (available for them to report issues) and have him request a Technical Professional/Specialist from NMMC in Tennessee to visit the Infiniti Dealership and monitor the issue in person. An email/phone call/fax/whatever from a Representative from IC will not do anything if you are the only one reporting the issue. They will file it away as an isolated incident unless they receive numerous complaints about the issue OR a Technical Pro investigates the issue and finds it to be of interest for an investigation and development from NMMC. It still seems as if only you, and possibly one other, are having this issue - so your only definite course of action would be to demand your Service Manager to request a Technical Pro to visit.

Nice to see you back, infiniti_lineup. I will make sure to ask the regional Infiniti engineer specialist with whom I'm meeting on Wednesday to explain the above inconsistencies.

However, now that I can see the actual instructions given to the service technicians, I'm quite sure the specialist is going to tell me that page 6 says Discs 1 & 2 aren't needed for anyone with 09-10 MAP No.1b because the first two discs are only there to update a vehicle to 09-10 MAP No.1b if it's not already installed. The proof is on page 7, where the Figure 10 clearly shows Disc 2 being used to update 09-10 MAP No.1 to 09-10 MAP No.1b - the latest version that is required before Disc 3's iPhone fixes can be installed that update the program to version X1U52008 or X2U12052.

It's also important to note that XM NavTraffic and XM NavWeather are not mentioned anywhere in these instructions, including the customer letter on page 12. The only specific problem referenced is "customer concerns with the Navigation System and with Communication and Entertainment Functions involving the iPhone." I'm not sure where you're finding "Eliminates connectivity difficulty in all models equipped with XM NavWeather® and XM NavTraffic®" as a function of Disc 2 - perhaps there's additional documentation that's missing from this post? (There's nothing like that phrase on any of the Infiniti DVD images contained in the instructions.)

Regardless, I suspect XM NavTraffic will be fixed in my 2011 M and 2010 FX on Wednesday...or at least partially fixed. I'll give the engineer appropriate feedback after testing the software patch, and when Infiniti finalizes this update, I look forward to it being released as a VSC for all 2010/2011 vehicles.

Based on some of the conversations I've had with support since notifying them of this problem, they're rather amazed that this slipped by them for over a year. One Consumer Affairs person speculated that Infiniti has so many new customers that never bought a pre-2010 Infiniti, that all those new Infiniti drivers just thought everything was working as intended since they had nothing to compare it to; and that most Infiniti owners who bought 08-09 models are still in their cars, enjoying NavTraffic working perfectly!

As I've noted before, anyone driving a 2010-11 Infiniti who previously drove a 2008-09 Infiniti will be aware of the difference in XM NavTraffic functionality. It's not isolated to my car (seriously - what are the odds that I would buy not only the one 2011 M with this problem, but also the only FX with it too!), and the dealerships in my area have all confirmed that all the 2010-11 Infinitis we tested during my research exhibited the same problems.

[abrader]

For real - social marketers head back to wikipedia. Your posting style is obvious, and as I said nobody )))here((( wants ford Sync. I dont live in a sheltered world, I have used it and it sux, just like driving a ford sucks and just like Microsoft winblows sucks.

Spare us the melodrama us trolling up this threads with counter insults to your "too long didn't read" posts trying to create the perception for onlookers that you are really just educated and concerned mega consumers. Even trying to discredit the actual Infinti employees so you can take control and turn this nexus for consumer information into an anti infiniti M information barn.

Nothing about the Infiniti M is 'dark ages'

I also think its funny that the infiniti M is so hot its attracting this kind of heat. GM had to dispatch their finest 30K/year forum dwellers to pose as disappointed consumers.

Guess what guys, sales are up 41%