Time For a Upgrade

[Broadfield]

I'm pretty sure when most people say that the "spool time" is faster on a particular turbo, they mean that it starts to build boost earlier in the rpm range. I think you are arguing that the time from when it starts to build boost to the time it reaches full boost is the same from a twin scroll to a standard?

Sorry if I used the generic terminology of "spools faster" to explain that it starts to build boost earlier.

[ladysman]

You think it spools faster because the Divided setup has more exhaust velocity resulting in more tq being made.

which will help throughout the powerband making it broad. Broadfield likes broad.

The midrange should work out well for him in this setup. Can't wait to put it on. Beer and working on cars is fun.

[codyace]

I'm pretty sure when most people say that the "spool time" is faster on a particular turbo, they mean that it starts to build boost earlier in the rpm range. I think you are arguing that the time from when it starts to build boost to the time it reaches full boost is the same from a twin scroll to a standard?

Sorry if I used the generic terminology of "spools faster" to explain that it starts to build boost earlier.

Spooling faster and boost threshold are so user dependent it's not funny hehe. I wouldn't be concnered

However, the T/S won't outspool a .64 housing t2 turbo hehe. It'll make some good power, but won't be as close...the .86 it will though for sure.

However I do understand your thinkign on the 'why put it back'. I guess deep down i'm just an NS-111 wheel sack rider and don't know anybetter hehe

Super clean car though as always....love the interior in it as well!

[Broadfield]

So you think Full Race is flat out lying on their website?



"SR20DET Dyno Comparison of Full-Race Twinscroll GT3071R .78 A/R (Blue Line) vs. Single Scroll GT2871R .64 A/R (Red Line). AFR was 11.5 and dyno was done in 4th gear. 84 degrees with about 50 percent humidity. Both runs were about 19 PSI. Rom tuning by RS Enthalpy

The blue line shows the twinscroll system spooling faster, building boost earlier and producing more power than the smaller, bottom mounted 2871R. Additionally the new setup feels much faster and more responsive without making any compromises"


Modified by Broadfield at 7:07 AM 3/11/2008

[inkslingers13]

sorry to interrupt, back to polishing. i just ground the letters off and im at 600grit right now, its looking good! except when i ground off the NISSAN letters there was a flaw in the casting and now theres a lil bitty hole in the middle... sucks but all in all its looking bad a$s!

[Broadfield]

Sweet! You'll have to post a pic up when you are done. What are you going to do for the coil pack cover?

[inkslingers13]

im going with the purple anodized spark plug cover. its gona look sick.

[DrifterProdigy85]

So you think Full Race is flat out lying on their website?

You talk about the TS being quicker in spool time, Time being how long it takes from A to B. Just by looking at the dyno, the TS doesnt increase spool time. It increases tq during spool up. Maybe your refering to transient response which would be the time you smash on the gas and boost begins.

[Broadfield]

Yes, transient response = the time at which it starts to spool. Time = RPM

Most refer to it as "spool time" whether it be the correct usage of the phrase or not.

[kyles1988]

[homeslicej2]

I too love your car. Can't wait to see the final outcome with the new set-up.

[codyace]

So you think Full Race is flat out lying on their website?

Yes, because my 2871r .64 spools 1000 rpm sooner than that one does.

Edit: Mine actually makes damn near 330 ft lbs at 4k, holds 330ft lbs till rouglly 6500 rpm, and still makes over 300 past 7000 rpm.

Edit: Mine makes MUCH better power at the same PSI as well.

[Broadfield]

You are comparing apples to oranges. You can't compare your 2871 to their 2871. You have no idea what other modifications are done to their setup compared to yours, or mine for that matter. What dyno was used for your tuning? Dyno #'s mean nothing to me unless it's virtually the same conditions, same dyno and same level of tune.... A/F, timing etc. So yours spools faster than theirs does, so does mine. I'm sure a twin scroll owner also could look at that dyno and say that his spools 1000rpm faster than their TS. I'm just comparing from one turbo to another. Once I get the thing tuned we'll know for sure. Hopefully your wrong, if not, oh well!

[driftfan420]

broadfield, you know what would really just complete the package for your car? that super made body kit for the s13 w/ bricks. http://shop.yumetenpo.jp/goods...shtml#

I'm looking at the s15 conver. for mine. there's so much to do, and so little time. Bush needs to hurry up and give me my money so i can stimulate the economy.. lol

[Broadfield]

While I respect your suggestion, that's not the look for this car. I'm not saying it's going to stay the way it is. I have been looking for a OEM Silvia lip for almost 2 years now. I may also do the OEM aero skirts. I have also considered the aero bumper, but there are some things I like better about my bumper and some I like better on the aero bumper. I am really anal on how things fit, and even the best of the best aftermarket doesn't fit as good as OEM.

[codyace]

You are comparing apples to oranges. You can't compare your 2871 to their 2871.

It's the same exact turbocharger, how couldn't you? Mine was right out of the Garrett box and onto the car....as I'm sure there's was.

I'd be willing to bet that they are dynoing a .86 housing in that graph.

You have no idea what other modifications are done to their setup compared to yours, or mine for that matter.

True, but at this point in the game, you know anyone making over 300 whp has 3" exhaust, has cams, etc etc.

The main difference between the two could be intake manifold, but if stock, that 2871r would be spooling much sooner.

I'd assume my car, and the two they dynoed all have IM, all have cams, all have 3" exhuast. Differences being the cams, and the tune. I have a Jim Wolf Rom tune, they have some nice tunable EMS.

What dyno was used for your tuning? Dyno #'s mean nothing to me unless it's virtually the same conditions, same dyno and same level of tune.... A/F, timing etc.

Dynojet. If you can get their run files, I'd gladly give you mine as well.

And I know dyno racing is just that, dyno racing, but I understand the differences, and you can still get a general idea of what you're looking at.

So yours spools faster than theirs does, so does mine. I'm sure a twin scroll owner also could look at that dyno and say that his spools 1000rpm faster than their TS. I'm just comparing from one turbo to another.

And what Im' saying, is that they have an UNFAIR comparison in turbochargers.

Once I get the thing tuned we'll know for sure. Hopefully your wrong, if not, oh well!

I hate being right (joke, nothing personal lol)

I guess my mine gripe with it all, is that they put up one the SADDEST 2871r graphs I've ever seen in comparison to their 'in house' setup. Now obviously, any shop promoting their product is going to want their item to look the best, but doing in the way they did it....is almost unfair.

[Broadfield]

I guess my mine gripe with it all, is that they put up one the SADDEST 2871r graphs I've ever seen in comparison to their 'in house' setup. Now obviously, any shop promoting their product is going to want their item to look the best, but doing in the way they did it....is almost unfair.

I understand your gripe, but my point is that a TS owner could look at that graph and say the same thing you are.... "that it is a sad dyno graph compared to my TS". Unfortunately, we just don't have enough SR dyno graphs of TS setups to really know. We'll just have to use my car to see the results.

[codyace]

Fresh Alloy has a few T/S dynos at this point....

I see your point, but it's essentially impossible to have a 3071 outspool a 2871 this side of some wacky/unsafe low end timing....

[kyles1988]

Turbo came today!

But he wasn't there to sign for it

[Broadfield]

Well, the Full Race stuff finally came today after a 2 month wait. Lucky for me they made me a KA manifold instead of a SR. If I have to wait another 2 months for them to make me a SR mani I'm going to kill someone!

[homeslicej2]

Well, the Full Race stuff finally came today after a 2 month wait. Lucky for me they made me a KA manifold instead of a SR. If I have to wait another 2 months for them to make me a SR mani I'm going to kill someone!

That royally sucks. Wow, I can't believe they screwed that up.

[Broadfield]

Yeah, hopefully I will know today what they are going to do about it.

[Koshin]

Well, the Full Race stuff finally came today after a 2 month wait. Lucky for me they made me a KA manifold instead of a SR. If I have to wait another 2 months for them to make me a SR mani I'm going to kill someone!

Typical....

[Broadfield]

Just talked to Eric at Full-Race, they accidentally shipped me the KA, and my SR manifold is there and ready to go! So that is the best news that I could of hoped for.

KA manifold looks badass none-the-less!!

[Koshin]

good deal bro....that mani looks nasty...

[inkslingers13]

Just talked to Eric at Full-Race, they accidentally shipped me the KA, and my SR manifold is there and ready to go! So that is the best news that I could of hoped for.

KA manifold looks badass none-the-less!!

i really think 2 waste gates is better then that set up... not to dog on it or anything just think about it... im running 2 gtes... the tubes have to much length to them. there for they have to pressurize before the turbo get that lil extra bit... i dont get the whole 2 into one pipe... not a good design in my book. other then that it looks very nice. was it 1200$?

[driftset]

wow , not to jump on the bandwagon but shyte thats a sick setup you got there! but anyways your saying that the MR manifold held up to 400hp for 2 years untill it broke ...so if im @240-250 tops for $150 its gotta last at least 3-4yrs no?

[Broadfield]

i really think 2 waste gates is better then that set up... not to dog on it or anything just think about it... im running 2 gtes... the tubes have to much length to them. there for they have to pressurize before the turbo get that lil extra bit... i dont get the whole 2 into one pipe... not a good design in my book. other then that it looks very nice. was it 1200$?

Is yours a twin-scroll setup? I'd like to see it if you have any pics.

wow , not to jump on the bandwagon but shyte thats a sick setup you got there! but anyways your saying that the MR manifold held up to 400hp for 2 years untill it broke ...so if im @240-250 tops for $150 its gotta last at least 3-4yrs no?

Well, I noticed it leaking shortly after I got it dyno tuned. I assumed it was the gasket between the head and manifold. But now I can only assume it had been cracked the whole time. Thin walled manifolds are gong to crack, there just isn't anything you can do about it. That's why all of your $1000 manifolds use really thick tubing.

[driftset]

yup you get what you pay for right? o well il run the stocker while i save thanks for the info!

[inkslingers13]

Is yours a twin-scroll setup? I'd like to see it if you have any pics.

Well, I noticed it leaking shortly after I got it dyno tuned. I assumed it was the gasket between the head and manifold. But now I can only assume it had been cracked the whole time. Thin walled manifolds are gong to crack, there just isn't anything you can do about it. That's why all of your $1000 manifolds use really thick tubing.

my mani is still being built, i will have pics when its done, but the guy building it explained to me how horrible it is to make a mani like that, even if the tubes are short as hell its still bad. so 2 gates or a no go in my book. each tube has to be separated all the way to the waste gate. there for pressure is equal all the way to the gate if that makes any sense? but with it the way yours is the gate will spike and one side might open it more then the other. just pisses me off seeing full race build something like that. and dont get me wrong thats a nice mani. i hope i made it a lil bit more clear.