Hey Nistech, there still seems to be a flucuating idle on my sr. I've double checked the vac lines and haven't come up with a thing. Hell I've even gone so far as to put RTV between the vac openings and the actual hoses then clamped them down. Only other thing I can think of that's uncapped is the rubber hose that sat at the bottom of the carbon canister. All I've got hooked up to the ports at the top are for the fuel pressure regulator (left) and blow off (right). The one at the bottom is capped off. The BOV has one vac line, that's pretty secure now although it's pretty loose without the clamp.
Other things I've noticed with the current problem. My plugs got fouled as a result of something going on inside the engine. The exhaust is puffing black, and sometimes when depressing the throttle, it doesn't respond when it's on the rpms are on their way down. The smell from the exhaust isn't like rotten eggs or anything. The smell kind of stings the sinuses and the eyes a bit. The current setup for my SR is as follows.
Apexi filterported/polished headsard r2d2 blow offgreddy hot pipetomei rocker arm stoppersgreddy 1.2mm metal headgasketarp headstudsno carbon canistercaps on all vac line ports if not used
and the current oil in my motor is chevron 10w-30 for the break in period mated with an oem nissan filter.
Hopefully that can give you a better view of my situation
Strange SR idle resurfaces
-
s13sr20chris
- Posts: 4148
- Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 9:32 am
- Car: '89 Nissan S13 w/redtop running 13psi and not leaking fuel anymore
- Contact:
if your canister is not hooked up then dont worry about the hose. i threw out my canister and everything. my sr idles rough too. i am in the proccess of making it consult compatible so i can properly diagnose my own car. i will tell you this. ground kits are a rip off that dont make any extra hp. they do however serve a purpose. make your own out of some 8 gauge wire and ring terminals. ground everything. multiple grounds from batt to chassis. if your batt is in under the hood then ground from batt to engine block too. grounds from trns bellhousing to chassis also. then ground the maf housing to another good ground and also your intake manifold should have one extra ground wire too(for the ecm grounds). maf ground is important. a bad ground on the maf can be minor and cause mega rich running. for example .5 volts of voltage drop in maf ground will fog up the the whole area in nose stinging smoke. do that and let me know. i am working on mine too.
Grounding system8 gauge monster cable with gold ring terminals. Daisy chained from battery to throttle, to alternator, to block where it splits off to head, transmission, and intake manifold, from the head there's another ground going to the firewall. This afternoon the mafs is getting grounded directly to the battery.
IdleAs soon as the key's started, rpms go to 1500, drop to 300, 1100 to 300, and keeps at the 1100->300 rpm pattern until it warms up. When it's done warming up, it idles from 850-550rpm and makes the occasional popping sound. Exhaust gas is black.
TodayI'm gonna check out my mafs for sure. Gonna run a new ground to the mafs. Then replace the plugs, and o2 sensor and see if they help at all.
IdleAs soon as the key's started, rpms go to 1500, drop to 300, 1100 to 300, and keeps at the 1100->300 rpm pattern until it warms up. When it's done warming up, it idles from 850-550rpm and makes the occasional popping sound. Exhaust gas is black.
TodayI'm gonna check out my mafs for sure. Gonna run a new ground to the mafs. Then replace the plugs, and o2 sensor and see if they help at all.
I was guessin maf too by your description and or a coolant temp connection problem. If your eyes are stinging you have a high content of raw fuel passing through. Your definitly firing if you got black smoke your just got to much fuel to burn off.
Check your base idle once its warmed up. is it correct? if not set it to spec.
Check your base idle once its warmed up. is it correct? if not set it to spec.
Found a strong possibility. When I was rummaging through my garage, found a vac/pressure gauge. Hooked it up to my vac port that was free from the carbon canister removal. Connected the hose, and fired it up. Strange 0 psi at the throttle plate. So I shut down the car and double check my vac lines. Everything looked good, but one thing I didn't check more thoroughly was the intercooler itself. Checked all the hoses and what not connecting to it, but not the actual face of the intercooler. Saw some damage but everything looked good at a glance. Once it was removed, had a closer look at all the damage and bam. Found a cut. Double checked by pouring water into the intercooler and saw it was pissing like a little boy.
Now I've got a few choices, take it to a welder and pay some extraordinary sum to have it fixed, or get a new one, or find some other means of patching it up for a month or so until I can save enough for another new side mount like ARC or buy a new FMIC. I think I'll do the patch and new FMIC though. I thought about using JB Weld, but figured since it's for patching steel, it's probably not a good idea to use on aluminum. Might get a radiator patch kit since I'm only using stock boost for now and need a quick fix to get the bugger out of my buddy's garage. Any other ideas for the fix on the SMIC?
Already replaced the plugs, o2 sensor on the bastard, and gonna check the timing first thing the smic's fixed. Once everything's clear and good to go, bam, start practicing driving manuals. hee hee hee.
Now I've got a few choices, take it to a welder and pay some extraordinary sum to have it fixed, or get a new one, or find some other means of patching it up for a month or so until I can save enough for another new side mount like ARC or buy a new FMIC. I think I'll do the patch and new FMIC though. I thought about using JB Weld, but figured since it's for patching steel, it's probably not a good idea to use on aluminum. Might get a radiator patch kit since I'm only using stock boost for now and need a quick fix to get the bugger out of my buddy's garage. Any other ideas for the fix on the SMIC?
Already replaced the plugs, o2 sensor on the bastard, and gonna check the timing first thing the smic's fixed. Once everything's clear and good to go, bam, start practicing driving manuals. hee hee hee.
-
s13sr20chris
- Posts: 4148
- Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 9:32 am
- Car: '89 Nissan S13 w/redtop running 13psi and not leaking fuel anymore
- Contact:
Alrighty, problem still there. Patched up the hole in the smic with some quicksteel, doesn't leak any water, made the idle a little better, but not much better.
But it's a first step. Tossed on the ground on the mafs, no cigar. Cleaned it, and now I think I'm gonna try to wire in my old SOHC mafs in place of the sr one. Hopefully that'll work.
Replaced all the hoses on the intake tract that I could, basically everything but that fat one that connects from the intake to throttle. Everything's sealed with clamps and silicone rtv for god sakes. And still, there's a 0 vac pressure problem. *sigh*
I also took the liberty of tossing a bolt (yes with rtv and a clamp) into that little hose at the bottom of the carbon canister. Again no cigar.
Tried to spray down the IC and all the other usual suspects with carb cleaner in hopes that for just a second the idle would stabilize and I would have found my culprit. No luck there.
So in my next round of battle with the rough idle, I think I'm gonna go ahead and order a new gasket from phase2 for my throttle to runners. That was the only gasket that I didn't replace during my rebuild. Stupidly, in retrospect, I think that may be a cause of the leak since I vaguely remember taking that off for just a second. Not gonna chance it and change it anyway. Next on the list is the mafs. Gonna switch to sohc and then pull out the water temp sensor and have a look at that to see if that's messing up my day.
But it's a first step. Tossed on the ground on the mafs, no cigar. Cleaned it, and now I think I'm gonna try to wire in my old SOHC mafs in place of the sr one. Hopefully that'll work.
Replaced all the hoses on the intake tract that I could, basically everything but that fat one that connects from the intake to throttle. Everything's sealed with clamps and silicone rtv for god sakes. And still, there's a 0 vac pressure problem. *sigh*
I also took the liberty of tossing a bolt (yes with rtv and a clamp) into that little hose at the bottom of the carbon canister. Again no cigar.
Tried to spray down the IC and all the other usual suspects with carb cleaner in hopes that for just a second the idle would stabilize and I would have found my culprit. No luck there.
So in my next round of battle with the rough idle, I think I'm gonna go ahead and order a new gasket from phase2 for my throttle to runners. That was the only gasket that I didn't replace during my rebuild. Stupidly, in retrospect, I think that may be a cause of the leak since I vaguely remember taking that off for just a second. Not gonna chance it and change it anyway. Next on the list is the mafs. Gonna switch to sohc and then pull out the water temp sensor and have a look at that to see if that's messing up my day.
The car does get vac when the throttle's open. On the SR throttle, there are 3 ports for vac. Two on top, one on the bottom. The one on the bottom goes to the carbon canister and when I give it gas, the gauge goes up. When the revs were about 2k, the vac pressure was reading into the green on the gauge. 15 something...forgot the units...lol
Update: I found another hiss in the cold pipe. Actually managed to find my pressurizer and pumped air till I found a small hole in my bloody cold pipe. Tried a friends CA cold pipe and the car actually idled. Strange since it still had 0 on the vac gauge at that same carbon canister vac port. Looks like I'm gonna have to use some epoxy putty to seal that sucker up. When I had a look at the plugs, they looked black powder coated before, but started to burn off this time. So hopefully it's not another one of those fluke idles that gets my hopes up like last time.
Nistech, does it matter which port I connect the vac gauge to? I think idealy it should hook up to the fuel pressure regulator if I'm not mistaken, the passenger side of the top ports? Or does it make any difference at all?
To everyone who's posted so far, thanks again for all the help. It is very greatly appreciated and I might continue needing your assistance on the strange idle problem if the coldpipe hole doesn't resolve it. Just for a heads up lol!
Update: I found another hiss in the cold pipe. Actually managed to find my pressurizer and pumped air till I found a small hole in my bloody cold pipe. Tried a friends CA cold pipe and the car actually idled. Strange since it still had 0 on the vac gauge at that same carbon canister vac port. Looks like I'm gonna have to use some epoxy putty to seal that sucker up. When I had a look at the plugs, they looked black powder coated before, but started to burn off this time. So hopefully it's not another one of those fluke idles that gets my hopes up like last time.
Nistech, does it matter which port I connect the vac gauge to? I think idealy it should hook up to the fuel pressure regulator if I'm not mistaken, the passenger side of the top ports? Or does it make any difference at all?
To everyone who's posted so far, thanks again for all the help. It is very greatly appreciated and I might continue needing your assistance on the strange idle problem if the coldpipe hole doesn't resolve it. Just for a heads up lol!
-
s13sr20chris
- Posts: 4148
- Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 9:32 am
- Car: '89 Nissan S13 w/redtop running 13psi and not leaking fuel anymore
- Contact:
good call nistech. yes it matters. the fpr port is manifold vac and the carbon canister port is ported vac. ported vac is befor the throttle so it has 0 at idle. this is usefull for some things. if it makes you feel any better my throttle body hose comes off from time to time and the car still runs. it just does not go anywhere when on boost. thats cause the boost is going right out the hose into the atmo. heh! i have much work to do. try the different ports bro and keep going with the good ideas you are having.
T in to the vaccum line for the F/P reg.if you just disconnect it and take your vaccum reading it will effect your idle. As chris said you are not suppose to have vaccum at that port. That is like old basic carburated cars it uses vaccum in front of the throttle body to turn on things like the canister and EGR off idle which is idealy when those components should operate. In other words you were attempting to fix something that was ok.
A little side note here Chris happens to have that engine in his car and is a nissan tech himself. His knowlegde on that engine exceeds mine since I have never had the opportnity to work on one of them. At my job I cant its against the law for me to work on it since I am a state licensed smog tech and my shop is a state licenced smog facility. My self and my dealer could suffer penalties in the 10's of thousand dollar fines if we got caught working on street driven ones. And we all know no one that owns these trailers them around..lol
A little side note here Chris happens to have that engine in his car and is a nissan tech himself. His knowlegde on that engine exceeds mine since I have never had the opportnity to work on one of them. At my job I cant its against the law for me to work on it since I am a state licensed smog tech and my shop is a state licenced smog facility. My self and my dealer could suffer penalties in the 10's of thousand dollar fines if we got caught working on street driven ones. And we all know no one that owns these trailers them around..lol
Doh! Well hopefully the patched up cold pipe will do the trick like it did last night. Ha ha ha. Good info on the vac line, never would have occured to me. Alrighty time to go back to my buddy's place and finish patching up the pipe and see if that fixed the problem instead of it being an isolated incident...*grumbles*
thanks again guys!
thanks again guys!
Well I wasn't able to get a vac reading today since it looks like someone took my gauge and pressure tester. What I did though, was eliminate the MAFS as a problem. Switched it with my SOHC one (which I know was good) and still had the same problem. Fixed the cold pipe too. When it started, it ran like it was good for about 5 minutes. Within 2 of those minutes, we had the timing light setup and checked the timing. Dead on 15 BTDC. Then the idle problem came back. I'm at a loss for words.
Could it be that the quick steel I used to plug up the SMIC is popping loose or something? I was able to stabilze the idle by spraying down the SMIC with carb cleaner which I was told to try for vac problems as it would temporarily seal up the cause of the leak. I'm still looking for a replacement for my smic to verify if it's the problem but do you guys have any other ideas?
Could it be that the quick steel I used to plug up the SMIC is popping loose or something? I was able to stabilze the idle by spraying down the SMIC with carb cleaner which I was told to try for vac problems as it would temporarily seal up the cause of the leak. I'm still looking for a replacement for my smic to verify if it's the problem but do you guys have any other ideas?
Yeah the theft sucked. Rocked me to my core man. Effin honda boys, saw them too. Two accords. Now I got a nice high power paint ball gun to go to bed with. Next time someone tries to jack my parts, hit them in the face with the paintball gun and tell the cops to check out local ER's for guys with paint in their eyes with a huge welt nearby.
Yeah today gonna switch the IC with another buddy's and see if that resolves the issue. Hopefully everything from there on will be gravy.
Nistech and Chris, thanks again guys. It's always a good feeling to know you got people backing you up in times of emergencies like this. Might be the 5:06AM talkin but yeah, greatly appreciated guys.
Yeah today gonna switch the IC with another buddy's and see if that resolves the issue. Hopefully everything from there on will be gravy.
Nistech and Chris, thanks again guys. It's always a good feeling to know you got people backing you up in times of emergencies like this. Might be the 5:06AM talkin but yeah, greatly appreciated guys.
Well it wasn't the IC or a vac leak. My buddy Art and I turned my intercooler into a large bong and tried to spring a leak. No luck. Put the IC and hotpipe on the car and pushed air through the back end of the hot pipe with no leaks. Started up the car with the gauge, reads 18-20 (dammit forgot the units again).
Then next idea was to check over the wiring, everything was rechecked and verified against my buddy Arts as he's got an SR too in his S13.
Last idea was to check out the idle air control valve. Just got the bugger removed and cleaned. It had a pretty thick coat of carbon build up on the inside and could have been the culprit. Not totally sure, but not taking any chances. So right now I'm making a gasket for it and gonna reinstall the IACV tomorrow and see what's cookin. Hopefully the car will have the idle stabilized and will run like a champ, but I guess we'll have to see.
Also dunno if the idle's got anything to do with the car running very rich. It still smokes at the tail pipe when the car's off. I have changed the plugs and o2 sensor already but possibly the plugs may have gotten fouled already.
If you guys have any other ideas as to what could be causing the whore of a problem let me know.
Thanks again guys,Young
Then next idea was to check over the wiring, everything was rechecked and verified against my buddy Arts as he's got an SR too in his S13.
Last idea was to check out the idle air control valve. Just got the bugger removed and cleaned. It had a pretty thick coat of carbon build up on the inside and could have been the culprit. Not totally sure, but not taking any chances. So right now I'm making a gasket for it and gonna reinstall the IACV tomorrow and see what's cookin. Hopefully the car will have the idle stabilized and will run like a champ, but I guess we'll have to see.
Also dunno if the idle's got anything to do with the car running very rich. It still smokes at the tail pipe when the car's off. I have changed the plugs and o2 sensor already but possibly the plugs may have gotten fouled already.
If you guys have any other ideas as to what could be causing the whore of a problem let me know.
Thanks again guys,Young
The IACV wasn't the total culprit. It smoothed out my idle a bit so the rpm's do not oscillate as quickly, but they still do. Now the thing that I'm seeing on my A/F gauge is that it runs lean at idle, and very lean just before going kaput. When I do give it gas though, the engine runs rich. So here's the breakdown of my fuel system.
Walbro high flow fuel pump (ran for about a year on my SOHC motor without any problems)All new gates fuel injection fuel line300zx fuel filter (about 2 months old)half tank of 91 mixed with a full bottle of redline fuel system cleaner
From what I was told, the redline fuel system cleaner shouldn't cause that much of a dramatic problem if running at double the recommended concentration. Redline said full tank of gas to full bottle of fuel system cleaner. I accidentally poured the full thing at only half tank of gas.
My thought is that it could be the fuel pressure regulator. Could this thing be causing as dramatic a problem as this?
The injectors are all clicking their little hearts away and when I did pull them from the intake manifold, they didn't have any breakage at their tips nor were they leaking at the time.
Any ideas guys?
Walbro high flow fuel pump (ran for about a year on my SOHC motor without any problems)All new gates fuel injection fuel line300zx fuel filter (about 2 months old)half tank of 91 mixed with a full bottle of redline fuel system cleaner
From what I was told, the redline fuel system cleaner shouldn't cause that much of a dramatic problem if running at double the recommended concentration. Redline said full tank of gas to full bottle of fuel system cleaner. I accidentally poured the full thing at only half tank of gas.
My thought is that it could be the fuel pressure regulator. Could this thing be causing as dramatic a problem as this?
The injectors are all clicking their little hearts away and when I did pull them from the intake manifold, they didn't have any breakage at their tips nor were they leaking at the time.
Any ideas guys?
From start, it'll hold 1500 rpm for about 10-15 seconds, dip a little to 1300 rpm, hold for 5 or so seconds, dip to 1k rpm, hold for a second, drop to 800 and start bouncing from 550 to 950 rpm taking about a second for each up or down motion. Then after a few moments, it'll either die or keep going. If it dies, it leans out. If it keeps going, it'll dip to lean, then gradually richen up a little bit, but eventually will go very lean and die.
yes you should have a bit richer condition. I am curious to how the idle will react and wheather the lean condition is actually lack of fuel or lack of spark. look for a different reaction on your meter. if its not different I would think your fire is not happening. it would mean its ignition related.
Alrighty, tested with the throttle capped by the vac gauge. Same idle issue. Saw the bouncing idle, and also saw the A/F gauge go lean before dying.
If it's the ignition, so far I've tested the ignitor, I know that's working fine, so other than that, there's the crank angle sensor and the coil packs. The rest is all wires. I do have a spare set of coil packs though, perhaps I should try using those? Hmmm...I think my CAS is good since I'm still getting a signal when to fire all the way up to the coil packs.
Sucks to hear you're sick man, I was sick about 3 weeks ago and it was a pretty persistant bug. Had it for about 2 weeks although for that first week my family thought I had something as bad as bronchitis. ha ha ha. Hope you feel better dude.
If it's the ignition, so far I've tested the ignitor, I know that's working fine, so other than that, there's the crank angle sensor and the coil packs. The rest is all wires. I do have a spare set of coil packs though, perhaps I should try using those? Hmmm...I think my CAS is good since I'm still getting a signal when to fire all the way up to the coil packs.
Sucks to hear you're sick man, I was sick about 3 weeks ago and it was a pretty persistant bug. Had it for about 2 weeks although for that first week my family thought I had something as bad as bronchitis. ha ha ha. Hope you feel better dude.
Hmmm, what would a dead or non-operating o2 sensor do? I replaced it, but someone on the board said that if I were to have a dead or non-operating o2 that it would make me run rich everywhere else, but at idle it'd lean out. That describes my situation right now. Any ideas if that's another lead to follow?
-
s13sr20chris
- Posts: 4148
- Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 9:32 am
- Car: '89 Nissan S13 w/redtop running 13psi and not leaking fuel anymore
- Contact:
been off for a while. i think its a fuel prob. if it was ign it would die out rich. it really sounds like a vac leak but if you tried that then maybe not. i am sorry to say you may have tried everything bro. i dont know what to tell you to do. i guess i should be able to whip out something but i got nothing. i will keep it in mind in case i come up with an idea. nistech,you guys cant even work on theese cars? my car is completely legal over here(as far as i know). it passes state inspection and all(no smog test here). that sucks for you bro.
nope the SR20det in a 240 is not CARB approved. And it was my understanding it was not federally approved either. Nismo-freak I believe was who said it. but he could have just been reffering to his state. Quiksilvia had come by my shop wanting me to smog his and unfortunitly I had to tell him no. I hate doing that but If I got caught doin it it could mean fines and jail time if I put info in that wasent truthful. like say I told the machine it had a 2.4l since it wont accept 2.0L If the BAR found out they would come down and hall my a double s to jail.