SSAUTOCHROME N1 style duals; A review or how the world likes to screw MR RobertD

[grullan]

I'm not sure as to what wool deading sound material you're talking about. I know that both of my cats had wool deadning material prior to getting gutted last night. If the exhaust has some inside, I don't think it'll burn out.

[skydragoness]

The way its designed seems that even if the wool packing deteriorated (probably would take a year or more) I doubt it would get much louder, the resonator will help smooth out the tone a lot. People complaining about loud exhaust should hear my junkyard freebie catback w/ a Magnaflow racing series muffler welded on it. :P I'm sure this exhaust will be a nice walk in the park.

BTW smartest post in the thread:

All bull**** aside...

The system is probably made by motoria, not xcess power nor ssa. http://www.motoria.co.kr/.

The systems are ss304. I've had one in my hands, it's not chromed steel, or some crap alloy that ppl seem to come up with.

The muffler and resonator (fc3s) are ss304 wool packed, no fiberglass anywhere.

Robotic tig welding is obvious.

Motoria provides systems for Monkey magic, Uras, and corksport.

Motoria also develops suspension bits, which are undeniably in my opinion (picture evidendce) the same as some JIC, and nams hardware (tie rod ends notwithstanding).

The apexi is painted w/high temp paint. It's true it will rust, i heard accounts of this in freshalloy and zilvia, but not to the extent of falling appart. More in the order of the OEM exhaust rust.

For some reason, I've seen many people be offended by high quality products which are offered at competitive prices. Pseudo elitism to justify an expense that is many times the price of these items is not only childish but rude and arrogant.

Rumor has it that a lot of the 'knock-offs' that everyone complains about are coming out of the same factories that make the real thing (i.e. low end coilovers on Ebay coming out of the Tein factory).

I'm more willing to support a U.S. tuning shop though, and as far as exhausts go name-brand is just a bragging right (as has been said before) I plan to have my freebie catback re-done by a muffler shop in PA.

[koukimon]

wow a new post. and a levelheaded one at that. i thought this one was long dead. if you go to the multimedia section there is a vid clip if you are interested

[moyea]

I have to put my .02 in because this is such a hot topic. I have bought from SSAC or SSAC type store twice before with good and bad results. One was a header for my Sentra, the other was this exhaust for my friends 240. First let me say (Here comes the flaming), The dual tip looks ricey as hell. But thats my opinion. Apexi and brand names suck balls in general. Most "Brand" names just jack up the price on cheap made stuff. I work outside sales for a company so I know the list price on many items. Example, the cost price (how much I pay to carry it in my store) of an exhaust is around $35.00. Then I sell it to you for the list price of $128.95. That's a 70% Profit mark up! What a rip! This is what Apexi, Greddy, Wallmart, etc. do. Why would you pay $500 for some welded metal? Its not like the exhaust is going to do your taxes or raise your kids. I will tell you one reason: trust. (This part applies to the header)You trust that when you buy a part for a car it comes with all the hardware. You trust that when you buy a part "fitment" will not be an issue. You trust that customer service will tell you, "We'll fix the problem". Well, you get what you pay for. Concerning the exhaust on the 240, nothing but smooth sailing. Even though I'll admit the exhaust looks cheezy and gay on my friends fastback. Also the 3" size, which seems to be the only size SSAC gets, is too big for a NA 240sx. After the install her car was noticably "boggy" at the low end and on the highway it seemed like she had turbo lag when left off accel the punched it again. She has since dropped a CA18DET in it and the exhaust is a good match. I do not recommend this size pipe if your sticking with an all motor.

Which brings me to my next point. I'm almost done.

Not all stainless steel is created equal. And some grades are better for diffrent auto applications. Example, 304 is a great for an exhaust system because it can withstand the chemicals and heat to a degree(pardon the pun). By the way Apexi and SSAC use Chinese 304. SUS 304 is just the Jap name for it. So why is the other $500? As far as headers or turbo apllications 321 is the better choice because it can withstand the higher temps. Often this is the reason why people claim their ebay turbo manifold cracked because SSAC/XS Power use 304 SS which cannot handle the rapid heating and cooling at high temps. Here is some info:http://www.burnsstainless.com/....htmlh ... nitic.html

Also I know for a fact that one ebay store and most likely SSAC are manufactured in the same manner that Wallmart is supplied. Cheap, abundent labor. As stated above the cost price is much less than the list price and this includes S&H. So why is Apexi so damn expensive even though the steel they use is from China? Brand name + manufacturing cost= rip off. The systems are most likely manufactured in their facilities, unlike SSAC who buys them bulk pre-fab at cost then marks them up (looks like 30%) and sells them on ebay. This doen't mean they are low quality! Making an exhaust system is not rocket science because they are robotically welded and manufactured. Unlike a hand-built parts like Hotshots or BRM. It better be hand built for that price AZHitman. J/K!

Anyways all in all, koukimon, way to stick it to the man! Everybody else, relax! Spend your money how you want. There are some people who dont work for a living and will toss $500 just to have an brand name on 80 dollars worth of metal. Oh, and bragg'n rights. I call them O.C. Kids. If you are one of them send me check for $500 and I'll make you a system with a Apexi sticker on the side, then show up to your house and rape you in your ***. There are those looking for a serious investment with piece of mind that comes with quality products. And then there are those who dont have much cash and think $500 is too much for a few feet of metal tubing.Which one are you?

[Riubens]

moyea that was the best post Ive heard in a long long time..btw I have a ssa dual on my s14 doesnt look that rice,,I think,but who cares ,this thread should be locked b/c you said what everyone need it to hear.

thanks for a great post.

[thekawaii]

I have to put my .02 in because this is such a hot topic. I have bought from SSAC or SSAC type store twice before with good and bad results. One was a header for my Sentra, the other was this exhaust for my friends 240. First let me say (Here comes the flaming), The dual tip looks ricey as hell. But thats my opinion. Apexi and brand names suck balls in general. Most "Brand" names just jack up the price on cheap made stuff. I work outside sales for a company so I know the list price on many items. Example, the cost price (how much I pay to carry it in my store) of an exhaust is around $35.00. Then I sell it to you for the list price of $128.95. That's a 70% Profit mark up! What a rip! This is what Apexi, Greddy, Wallmart, etc. do. Why would you pay $500 for some welded metal? Its not like the exhaust is going to do your taxes or raise your kids. I will tell you one reason: trust. (This part applies to the header)You trust that when you buy a part for a car it comes with all the hardware. You trust that when you buy a part "fitment" will not be an issue. You trust that customer service will tell you, "We'll fix the problem". Well, you get what you pay for. Concerning the exhaust on the 240, nothing but smooth sailing. Even though I'll admit the exhaust looks cheezy and gay on my friends fastback. Also the 3" size, which seems to be the only size SSAC gets, is too big for a NA 240sx. After the install her car was noticably "boggy" at the low end and on the highway it seemed like she had turbo lag when left off accel the punched it again. She has since dropped a CA18DET in it and the exhaust is a good match. I do not recommend this size pipe if your sticking with an all motor.

Which brings me to my next point. I'm almost done.

Not all stainless steel is created equal. And some grades are better for diffrent auto applications. Example, 304 is a great for an exhaust system because it can withstand the chemicals and heat to a degree(pardon the pun). By the way Apexi and SSAC use Chinese 304. SUS 304 is just the Jap name for it. So why is the other $500? As far as headers or turbo apllications 321 is the better choice because it can withstand the higher temps. Often this is the reason why people claim their ebay turbo manifold cracked because SSAC/XS Power use 304 SS which cannot handle the rapid heating and cooling at high temps. Here is some info:http://www.burnsstainless.com/....htmlh ... nitic.html

Also I know for a fact that one ebay store and most likely SSAC are manufactured in the same manner that Wallmart is supplied. Cheap, abundent labor. As stated above the cost price is much less than the list price and this includes S&H. So why is Apexi so damn expensive even though the steel they use is from China? Brand name + manufacturing cost= rip off. The systems are most likely manufactured in their facilities, unlike SSAC who buys them bulk pre-fab at cost then marks them up (looks like 30%) and sells them on ebay. This doen't mean they are low quality! Making an exhaust system is not rocket science because they are robotically welded and manufactured. Unlike a hand-built parts like Hotshots or BRM. It better be hand built for that price AZHitman. J/K!

Anyways all in all, koukimon, way to stick it to the man! Everybody else, relax! Spend your money how you want. There are some people who dont work for a living and will toss $500 just to have an brand name on 80 dollars worth of metal. Oh, and bragg'n rights. I call them O.C. Kids. If you are one of them send me check for $500 and I'll make you a system with a Apexi sticker on the side, then show up to your house and rape you in your ***. There are those looking for a serious investment with piece of mind that comes with quality products. And then there are those who dont have much cash and think $500 is too much for a few feet of metal tubing.Which one are you?

the best post ever.

can i visit your shop. i want to buy your exhaust!

[GEO]

WOW... you made that whole post and forgot that APEXI, HKS, and other name brands RESEARCH AND DEVELOP their own exhaust for highest performance. Little do you know that angles and such of a well engineered system help tremendously when maiing power. All SSA do is copy other companies designs and skip the reserach and development.

[skydragoness]

Besides angles and pipe diameter, what else goes into R&D of a cat back exhaust? I'd like to know. Hmm, minimal bends, and a muffler w/ no restrictions. Doesn't seem like its worth the $500-600 they're asking for, nor does it seem like 'rocket science.' The only thing worth buying are the brand-name exhausts that utilize titanium for lighter weight (which is only really important for a track car anyway), but I'm sure one could be custom made for the same amount or cheaper. I highly doubt the 240sx ITA/SCCA club racing cars use brand-name exhausts; at least the pictures i've seen of their setups are complete custom one-piece units that include a revamped header.

[Riubens]

geo,not to be an *** but,,once a company does r&d on a product if the design came with good results dont they copy the same design over a million times,or does hks apexi or other big company do r&d on each single product they ship ???? I think not ,so what is wrong with companies like ssa that copy the product that apexi or hks exhaust for example are making copies too??btw am refering to exhaust systems. some of these companies are making high cuality copies.just my .2 cents.

geo btw great ka-t you got there. :

[thekawaii]

for price tag of $500, we don't even get warranty.

[ArticDragon192]

WOW... you made that whole post and forgot that APEXI, HKS, and other name brands RESEARCH AND DEVELOP their own exhaust for highest performance. Little do you know that angles and such of a well engineered system help tremendously when maiing power. All SSA do is copy other companies designs and skip the reserach and development.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Most of what you pay for an exact is used to pay for the R&D of whatever ever exhaust you get. Reason to why these ebay exhasts are not pricey is becuase they just reverse engineer someone else's design or just straight out copy it, and maybe not to the best degree either.

Besides angles and pipe diameter, what else goes into R&D of a cat back exhaust? I'd like to know. Hmm, minimal bends, and a muffler w/ no restrictions. Doesn't seem like its worth the $500-600 they're asking for, nor does it seem like 'rocket science.'

It is a science, not just rocket science. It's called fluid dynamics, the study of flow of fluids and what's more efficient for whatever application. It's a branch of mechanical engineering. Rocket science, no. Engineering nonetheless, yes.

And no only is it piping, minimal bends, little or the right amount of restrictions, but also the placement of bends, what materials to use who how a resonator/s and what kind of resonator to use to get a good sounding exhaust and how that'll affect the overall airflow and the engine's performance in general. Like I said, a lot of reseach and development goes into the huge price tag. Do I regret paying more that 400 for my RSR exhaust? Hell no. I know what I paid for was researched well and developed for what this exhaust was designed for: low sound levels and still good performance gains. Explain to me how my RSR Exmag can still be so quiet that bike cops don't even bother giving me an initial look even though I'm running 3 inch piping on an NA KA. This was done though extensive R&D.

[GEO]

^^ thanks.... my apexi n1 .. I think the reason we are getting stabbed at is becasue, don't kill me folks, most people who own 240's aren't the wealthiest people and can't justify spending large amounts of dime on exhaust.

[VinceSez]

^^^ loving my apexi n1 duals as well, looks and sounds great. worth every penny, but that's just me.

[skydragoness]

And no only is it piping, minimal bends, little or the right amount of restrictions, but also the placement of bends, what materials to use who how a resonator/s and what kind of resonator to use to get a good sounding exhaust and how that'll affect the overall airflow and the engine's performance in general. Like I said, a lot of reseach and development goes into the huge price tag. Do I regret paying more that 400 for my RSR exhaust? Hell no. I know what I paid for was researched well and developed for what this exhaust was designed for: low sound levels and still good performance gains. Explain to me how my RSR Exmag can still be so quiet that bike cops don't even bother giving me an initial look even though I'm running 3 inch piping on an NA KA. This was done though extensive R&D.

So, if I were to bring in a RS*R exhaust or any other brand-name exhaust to a reputable muffler shop they could not replicate it? I think brand-name exhausts are well made and do the job but I think custom made units can do the same thing for much less. Like I mentioned earlier, I doubt track car builders go online and buy themselves a brand-name exhaust (unless that company I suppose is sponsoring the car) esp. if they are in the 'grassroots' forms of racing where budgeting is necessary.

[Tulsa_S-13]

Buying SSAC exhaust is like pirating software, just my 2 cents.

The quality by judging from the pics looks fairly decent, If I wanted or needed new exhaust and was tight on cash I'd rock it.

[moyea]

This is the last time I'll post on this forum because it has gone off subject. I think the point that was made is the fact that koukimon took a chance with SSAC and was pleased with the result. The point I was making was that people can spend their money how they want. I was just including some information for those who are unsure about these products. Making an informed decision about modifications is your best weapon. Your budget, how you intend to use the product, product reviews, etc. should all be consider when buying parts. Also knowing what's involved in installing it will help too. As far as my comments about Apexi products, which is actually about all companies from Atari to Shell Gas, is a lesson in economics. Because of my background in marketing and sales I am experienced with the big picture of how much things really cost. If you like your Apexi, rock on!

But those of you who think Apexi can justify their price with R&D cost.... your dead wrong. A little right but mostly wrong.

(This where I clarify R&D cost vs. Profit)

First, R&D is not calculated into the list price or the profit margin. This is what they call an absorbed cost, also know as a form of capital. What this means is they have already paid for the R&D and it has nothing to do with the current product's price. The most influential cost to the profit margin is manufacture cost. There is other factors but maybe I'll post that somewhere else. So to throw out some example figures:

My company paid a one time cost of $2000 for R&D of my exhaust. And yes, there is considerable science in exhausts. Then I take the designs to a manufacturer. Lets say ummmmm China (Look at those $100 Nike's) They produce it at $100 a unit. Then I sale them at $500. This means after 5 sold units I have already got a return on my R&D cost. After that its all profit.

This is where your right:

Now after you factor in your sales and other variables you get a gross profit. This is where R&D is removed from the total gross profit. Here comes more simplified figures:

So I sold $10,000 worth of exhausts. Then I take 50% of that for R&D. By the way, no company that wants to stay in business will spend more then 50% on R&D. Note that most companies will not spend more than 25%. This means that you have $5000 take home money.

Here is where your wrong:

The $500 you paid for your Apexi doesn't go towards the R&D of your exhaust. You just paid for R&D of another exhaust that you may or may not see. Put into simple terms: You are sponsoring Apexi! Figures: You paid $500 for the exhaust. $100 goes to the development of a better exhaust. Now your exhaust is second rate and somebody else has a better one because you help fund it. This also applies to revisions. That $100 went to fixing something defective or improving something in your current product. Can you return your old product to get a revised one? Nope.Dont get confused here, Apexi did not make the price $500 because of R&D. Profit comes first then comes the question of if they want to use it for R&D.

For more info about investments/profit/etc. check out http://beginnersinvest.about.com/

How the world is screwing all of us:

Its a cycle that all business go through. Bottom line is companies use profit mark ups to line their own pockets. This is why I prefer to buy "American Made" or from a small family business (like BRM). Ask AZHitman about his business model then ask Apexi about theirs. You'll see that not only does Apexi sell more but they charge more, pay less, and make more profit. A lot of this is due to the "brand" name. This is the rip off. Example, how many of you buy Speedo goggles despite the fact that they are uncomfortable and often leak? Why do you keep buying them? They cost $3(made in China) to make and you pay $19, this I know for a fact, so you figure its a way of life, right. Nope. There are better goggles out there, made with better quality, but people hear Speedo and think quality. Its simply not true.

Moral issue: Why you should/shouldn't you feel sorry for the "Man"

As stated above most companies are charging more than an item is actually worth. Don't feel bad if you are frugal with your purchases or buy/pirate a product. In most cases this helps the economy thru competition also known as capitalism. Example (another one): Movie studios always discourage pirating by claiming that you are taking food from the mouths of the "small guy", such as the set builder or gaffer. This is total . The set builders, actors, extras, etc. have already been paid. It doesn't matter if the movie was bootlegged in Germany because Tom Cruise already got paid for MI:3. So did the gaffer. The studio is trying to maximize profit on the movie but cant when people download it and don't watch it in theaters or DVD. So instead of a profit of 60 mil., they made only 55 mil. Boo Hoo . Studios rush movies to release on DVD and reduce prices to combat this. This is good for us, Capitalism. But how would you like it if someone came by and took 7% of every dollar you made (wait they already do... its called taxes). You get my drift right? Stealing is wrong ummkay. But wait, it works both ways because these companies are stealing from you! Charging $500 for $150 exhaust? Then people try to justify the cost with R&D? Not good enough! Reliability, performance, etc. these are justifiable. And Apexi has these qualities!

Here is a great example of what I'm talking about> http://www.walmartmovie.com/

The Wrap up: Spend you money Your way!

Apexi is established for good reason. Quality products from a quality company. $500 may be too much for some. SSAC has made many people happy with their exhaust at a lower cost. Might be to good to be true for others.

What about me? aka Who cares what I say!?

I already said I used these ebay companies before with mixed results. I actually like to support small shops like BRM or your local speed shop because these shops can make a comparable or better exhausts at a mid-range price. I'm also tight with my money and almost never pay full price for anything. And yes most race drivers/teams have themselves custom parts to meet specific needs. Like an exhaust! Research and make up your own mind.

That's it I'm done. This thread has gotten off subject. I'm sorry for jacking your thread koukimon. Thanks for making this post so people can make an informed decision. Any stabs at me should be done elsewhere.

[koukimon]

you dont have to app. for jacking my thread none of the other JACK@sses did. but u blew my mind thank you for explaining things in depth. i dont think anybody will be able to agrue their way out of your explanation(maybe GEo).and since when is getting a good deal ever bad

[The Nismo Knight]

for some reason i cant find the autochrome exhausts on ebay anymore.

i can go to their website, but now they have the S14 N1 dual style for 325 + shipping. what gives?

[RB20DETodd]

[KoukiRydr]

for some reason i cant find the autochrome exhausts on ebay anymore.

i can go to their website, but now they have the S14 N1 dual style for 325 + shipping. what gives?

Which eBay are you looking at?

http://search.ebay.com/search/...ory0=

[The Nismo Knight]

Which eBay are you looking at?

http://search.ebay.com/search/...ory0=

thanks man. that is awesome.

[AZhitman]

I hope moyea didn't really mean he wasn't coming back - We need more sharp folks like that.

[MiamiGrinch240]

Heh, I just happen to run into this thread on FA while looking for stuff about Hotshot.

Pic of rust on an N1 Single. Note, the N1 Dual has the same construction anyway. (Stainless Steel Canister with Mild Steel Piping)



And a quote from the guy who posted it on Fresh Alloy..

I guess you guys who didn't believe can STFU now

I'll include a link to the original post for good measure..

http://forums.freshalloy.com/u...05699

Modified by mrflip69 at 8:01 PM 2/4/2006

I see you found my post on FA, a buddy of mine linked me to this thread mentioning someone quoting me. Well, take a look at a pic taken about a year after that pic... the good old Apex-i Rust, I mean N1

[komete]

Man I finnaly get my car running great after all my timing chain troubles and what not and boom this exhaust is no longer on ebay. Tried searching for apexi 240sx and a few others. Anyone wanna sell theirs?

[RB20DETodd]

[Anand]

I had the Apexi N1 Duals for a long time.. I loved the sound of it and the looks..

I recently sold them and got a custom exhaust put in..

I'll post up pictures of it soon.. but it's loud as hell when I want it to or pretty quite when I'm not stomping on gas... I can hear the turbo spool really fast and its nice and looks BAD A$$...

R&D can go suck on a big fat one.. this exhaust cost me $120 and it's sweet.

[Threed240]

The SSAC guy is no longer on Ebay!

[AkademikONE]

Oh noes! I wanted one... lol

[FSUDrifter]

Then what is this? http://stores.ebay.com/WWW-SSAUTOCHROME-COM

[koukimon]

wow i can really write a post. dident think i had it in me. but 6 pages later.