Someone please back me up, 200+ HP KA....

[toptechracing]

I am struggling to understand why you feel the need to be such a Pr**k with your responses?

The best thing I can tell anyone about the size issue is this do what you think is right. I will be testing systems on the dyno in Feb when my new race engine package is done and I will provide those sheets.

[nismofly]

look at 4k rpm, the 2.35" has a 4hp advantage over the 3"

[nismofly]

I am struggling to understand why you feel the need to be such a Pr**k with your responses?

The best thing I can tell anyone about the size issue is this do what you think is right. I will be testing systems on the dyno in Feb when my new race engine package is done and I will provide those sheets.

thats the other thing, ive never heard him try to be helpful, always just im right everyone else is wrong and theres no argument and everyones whining. last time i checked he wasnt god, but maybe he wants to tell me that he is and fight about that too?

when i see toptechs dyno sheets is when i will have my answer, i find him very helpful when i have questions. you cant tell me otherwise so dont even try because you still cant cough up the piping advantage on the same car, just different cars. different engines can have a big effect on the results.

[toptechracing]

Quote »thats the other thing, ive never heard him try to be helpful, always just im right everyone else is wrong and theres no argument and everyones whining. last time i checked he wasnt god, but maybe he wants to tell me that he is and fight about that too?

[/quote]Last time I checked he had not built a KA motor either.

[InsanityInc]

look at 4k rpm, the 2.35" has a 4hp advantage over the 3"

You can't compare horsepower for a gain difference between two cars with different torque. The relationship between torque and horsepower is multiplicative, and then you're trying to relate the two with an additive relationship. Doesn't work. Here's proof:

155-145 = 10155*9000/5252 = 265.61145*9000/5252 = 248.48265.61 - 248.48 = 16.5216.52 != 10

Compare the torque gains, that's the only thing that can be accurately compared between the two cars, since their torque curves have a different phase shift.

Quote »Last time I checked he had not built a KA motor either.[/quote]Oh, and last time I checked, you still hadn't explained why that mattered. Also, didn't you freely admit that you've only worked on KA24E's? Since we're talking about DE's, by your horrendously flawed logic, your experience doesn't apply either.

Fortunately for both of us, the KA24DE doesn't operate via magic, it obeys the laws of physics, same as every other engine on the planet. Meaning that experience with one directly relates to your ability to predict the effects of something on the other.

[toptechracing]

No smart guy, I had a dyno sheet froma KA24E handy and provided it. My race car has a DE in and I have built at least 4 others in the last 2 years. I have a shop full of de and e stuff and I think you are a lot of talk....Exactly how many KA powered cars do you own?

[nismofly]

You can't compare horsepower for a gain difference between two cars with different torque. The relationship between torque and horsepower is multiplicative, and then you're trying to relate the two with an additive relationship. Doesn't work.

actually i knew that, but funny you compared those two dyno graphs, with the hp on them, just a few posts ago...

does this mean that you, being god after all, can compare the power output due to a difference in exhaust systems between these two cars and i cant as a mere mortal? isnt that a shame...

[InsanityInc]

actually i knew that, but funny you compared those two dyno graphs, with the hp on them, just a few posts ago...

does this mean that you, being god after all, can compare the power output due to a difference in exhaust systems between these two cars and i cant as a mere mortal? isnt that a shame...

Hm, I went back and looked, and couldn't actually find any of my posts which directly compared x horsepower at y RPM from one system to the other. I believe I used rather general terms, such as "gains", and "large differences".

Quote »No smart guy, I had a dyno sheet froma KA24E handy and provided it. My race car has a DE in and I have built at least 4 others in the last 2 years. I have a shop full of de and e stuff and I think you are a lot of talk....Exactly how many KA powered cars do you own?[/quote]1. And yet, you still haven't explained why it would matter.
Modified by InsanityInc at 5:48 AM 11/23/2004

[toptechracing]

Quote »1. And yet, you still haven't explained why it would matter.[/quote]It matters because you talk down to people like you actually have some experience at bulding these engines...My guess is you spend alot of time arguing to get attention and you have had enough of mine.....
Modified by toptechracing at 7:26 PM 11/22/2004

[nismofly]

I believe I used rather general terms, such as "gains", and "large differences"

oh please, now youre just making excuses

3":http://www.worldwidechang.com/...1.jpg

2.35": http://importtuner.com/tech/02...m.jpg

Seems pretty obvious the midrange gain is about the same, if not BETTER for the 3". I could draw up their derivative graphs and overlay them on the same sheet if you REALLY wanted me to, but I think it's pretty obvious that what you just said is incredibly false.

you know what i mean and there's no denying it, you have never mentioned gains in torque only hp, i dont care if you never mentioned it specifically in that post.

either way you compared two dyno graphs, and offered to lay them over top of each other to make the comparison. then:

You can't compare horsepower for a gain difference between two cars with different torque.

you went against what you had just said and said you cant compare two different power curves after i tried to use your example against you.

[InsanityInc]

you know what i mean and there's no denying it, you have never mentioned gains in torque only hp, i dont care if you never mentioned it specifically in that post.

Individually, yes. Not in comparison between two cars with a base torque difference of 20+, though.

Quote »either way you compared two dyno graphs, and offered to lay them over top of each other to make the comparison. then:

you went against what you had just said and said you cant compare two different power curves after i tried to use your example against you.[/quote]No? You do realize that those dyno graphs show torque as well, right? Also, I offered to overlay the derivative graph of the torque curves, in order to show the changes in the individual curves in order to demonstrate that the torque difference is insignificant at best until high RPMs, at which point the 3" system has an obvious advantage.

The 3" system offers better high end gains with no real differences on the low end or mid range, that's plain to see.

[nismofly]

okay but theyres still way too many variables missing. these are different cars, with different engines, different intake systems, and different exhausts, still no way to tell unless you use the same car and do one immediatly after the other, and the car has to be stock to prevent other mods from swaying it one way or the other. that was my point all along

you even made that point yourself, saying the cars had a base torque difference of around 20 lb ft.

[RMiller]

So you can get 200 whp from the KA n/a?

Sideshowbob: I don't race. And I thought the part was $8. There's no magical part that's super cheap. I mentioned some cheap possibiblities, and anything else I'm not interested in. I don't even have a KA, I have a CA. Well, I have one, but it's not in the car.

Back on topic.

I'm just considering that 181 whp KA that still has the stock CR (maybe a tiny bit higher if the deck was shaved slightly), has stock intake manifold, other stock weight pulleys that can be replaced. Can and will be done!

[keepingthe240]

The part you mention for 8 bucks has a patent on it. I've contacted the company a few months ago and they show no interest in making it for the nissan. Are we clear on that?? I would assume a shop could custom fab you one from an existing model that they sell. Or someone could make i deal with the company to sell a custom piece for the nissan. AS for the magic part. It's really on how you look at it. I would bet nismo freak could bring the cost down on it. But, he would have to make money on it for his time and effert. It sounds to me like you're all overlooking it. It is cheap in some regards and so darn cheap in another regard depending on what you conpare it to. I'm shocked no one has figured it out!!

[RMiller]

200whp will be done without the magic mod. No big deal.

http://www.shoshop.com/guidelog/svt/svtchp2.htm

That's for a Duratec 2.5; it makes 220 to the crank with just intake, pulleys, ypipe, resonator(wherever that goes), plugs, plug wires (and whatever those do at that power level).

Tons of power can be realized by shifting the power towards the redline on the KA. That's why I think a better intake manifold and cams would make a big difference. It's in the refrigerator anyway.

[InsanityInc]

The part you mention for 8 bucks has a patent on it. I've contacted the company a few months ago and they show no interest in making it for the nissan. Are we clear on that?? I would assume a shop could custom fab you one from an existing model that they sell. Or someone could make i deal with the company to sell a custom piece for the nissan. AS for the magic part. It's really on how you look at it. I would bet nismo freak could bring the cost down on it. But, he would have to make money on it for his time and effert. It sounds to me like you're all overlooking it. It is cheap in some regards and so darn cheap in another regard depending on what you conpare it to. I'm shocked no one has figured it out!!

Why not just stop acting like a 3-year-old and link us to whatever the magical 8 dollar product is? Doesn't matter if they don't make it for a nissan, considering we don't even know what it IS.

Also, as RMiller just said, and as I've been saying for a long *** time, the KA is incredibly hindered in basic ways in stock form.

[rawill240sx]

Share the information it doesn't matter if the thing is $8, $80, or $800 and only works on an air cooled VW engine. Why keep it to yourself?

[Onizuka]

Its like pissing in the wind, arguing dyno figures that is. A number you get from a dyno is only relevant for tuning if you go back to the same dyno under the same conditions. You can even adjust weather and elevations settings on a dyno to get whatever-the-hell kind of numbers you want.

[InsanityInc]

Its like pissing in the wind, arguing dyno figures that is. A number you get from a dyno is only relevant for tuning if you go back to the same dyno under the same conditions. You can even adjust weather and elevations settings on a dyno to get whatever-the-hell kind of numbers you want.

Yeah, that might be a factor, except all weather/elevation conditions for both dynos are very close (they're printed right on the sheet), and we're comparing a gain.
Modified by InsanityInc at 2:08 AM 12/23/2004