Someone please back me up, 200+ HP KA....

[InsanityInc]

yeah OK dude then you go do that. Exactly how many engines haev you built in the last 2 years?

3, actually(280ZXT, 300ZXTT, Cadillac 500ci). Don't tell me, you're supposedly some "master engine builder" for some machine shop or something, and that automatically makes you right about all things engine related?

[InsanityInc]

No offense but another 40rwhp might be harder than you think, it's hard to say without actually doing it.

It's not impossible, don't get me wrong.

When you've got 1400 rpms to add to the peak before the stock redline, and low compression stock pistons, a crappy intake manifold, an ECU that runs pig rich at WOT as well as so-so cams, it's really not that hard. Plenty of modded smaller honda engines make more than 200whp at 7000, hondas aren't magical(even though people seem to think they are). There are a lot of factors holding the KA back in stock form. If you can make 150rwtq at 7000, you have 200rwhp. Considering the KA almost makes that much in stock form, it seems easy to me to beef it up a bit and raise the peak.

[toptechracing]

3, actually(280ZXT, 300ZXTT, Cadillac 500ci). Don't tell me, you're supposedly some "master engine builder" for some machine shop or something, and that automatically makes you right about all things engine related?

Funny I don't see a single KA in that list.

To answer your question about what I do kinda of. I own and operate a small raicng prep business and I build Racing engines for my customers. The cars are raced in classes which limit them from stock to wideopen. I have built 10 KA engines in the last 2 years and have spent 100s of hours in development time on my DE for the last couple of years trying to make maximum power with in the limitations of the rules and my budget. I also in the last 2 years have built 10 to 15 L24's and L 16's I did all of the exhaust development work on our T2 350z. SO to answer your question directly my experience does not mean I am all things to all engines I am smart enough to open my ears long before I open my mouth and learn something. The difference is I have actual experience and I enjoy sharing actual knowledge when and where I can. I have no desire to piss in somebodies cornflakes to make myself feel better about me. Anyone wanting the information I have on my actual built KA is more than welcome to E-mail and I will be happy to provide the spec's. People like this make a place like this a waste of time.

[Nismo_Freak]

When you've got 1400 rpms to add to the peak before the stock redline, and low compression stock pistons, a crappy intake manifold, an ECU that runs pig rich at WOT as well as so-so cams, it's really not that hard. Plenty of modded smaller honda engines make more than 200whp at 7000, hondas aren't magical(even though people seem to think they are). There are a lot of factors holding the KA back in stock form. If you can make 150rwtq at 7000, you have 200rwhp. Considering the KA almost makes that much in stock form, it seems easy to me to beef it up a bit and raise the peak.

I know all about that, but that doesn't mean it's that simple is my point.

Until you do it ... you don't know. Plain and simple, and that rule applies to everyone. It's just speculation and talk until it is DONE.

[ArticDragon192]

Ill contribute my part here. I actually dynoed my stock KA on a Mustang dyno in 3rd gear, stupid speed limiter and here's what I got. Real numbers should be slightly higher than what is shown.

[:: orion ::]

Good lord, "Artic", resize that pic or just post a link...thanks.

And see how yout torque curve is ABOVE the HP...looks to me like 118rwhp, and 132rwtq...like a typical stock KA:

10-15rwtq MORE than peak HP - Very much unlike the AEM graph.

- Brian
Modified by :: orion :: at 11:04 AM 11/19/2004

[toptechracing]

Here is a sheet from a 90 3 valve I did in march. Stock per the class rules. 9.5 compression JWT worked ecu, Hotshot Header, My ring pack and valve grind. This is after about 9 race hours already on the engine.

[deviousKA]

Hey toptech do you run mini-sprints or minitrucks? That build looks like it falls into some of the rules im familiar with in Idaho/Washington for these classes. Regardless, It would be cool to see more competetive builders, bring it up north a few hundred miles I will race you.

[toptechracing]

That was actually and ITA engine for SCCA club racing I did for a customer. I have a guy talking to me about doing a 3 valve for a roundy truck deal in washington. I was looking around for the dyno sheets from my 4 valve when I found that......I am a decent engine builder but a piss poor keeper of all things important.

[ArticDragon192]

Yeah, sorry about the size. And like I said, that was a 3rd gear pull. The curves should be shifted upward a bit more, like 5-10 hp more and about the same for torque. I'll resize when I have the time.

[InsanityInc]

Funny I don't see a single KA in that list.

Does it matter? Are KAs some type of magical engine that operates outside the laws of physics?

Quote »Here is a sheet from a 90 3 valve I did in march. Stock per the class rules. 9.5 compression JWT worked ecu, Hotshot Header, My ring pack and valve grind. This is after about 9 race hours already on the engine.[/quote]The power differences between the E and DE are massive, especially when modified. Poke around a bit and you'll find a number of DE's making 160+whp with simple non-internal modifications and the stock ECU.

[:: orion ::]

InsanityInc...

I don't mean to keep picking specifically at you but...I haven't seen one single KA over 160rwhp on a stock ECU.

Anyone else?

Show us some dynos, give us usernames, provide links...whatever. You've mentioned that 160rwhp is an easy to achieve number on NUMEROUS occasions...but there are very few KA guys with that much RWHP out there...at least on the forums.

And anyone who is, either has a re-tuned ECU, or is otherwise not running a stock ECU.

- Brian

[nismofly]

the most ive seen on stock internals is chets s13. i think he made like 162 or 163 rwhp. heres his power and drivetrain mod list:

Apex'i S-AFCApex-I n-1 exhaustApex-I Custom intakeTest pipeUnorthodox racing Under Drive crank PulleyJUN chromoly flywheelNology coil and 'hotwires'Flexalite electric fanKOYO aluminum radiatorZ32 fuel filterHotshot headerACT stage 3 six puck clutchEnjuku Racing 1 piece aluminum driveshaft

all off his website if anyones wondering:

http://www.240sx.org/atlanta/chets_s13.htm

thats more than a few mods, the link to his dyno chart is in his sig

[InsanityInc]

Yeah, because his Z32 fuel filter, KOYO radiator and ACT clutch are definitely improving his horsepower. There are about 5 actual mods in that list, not that many. Also, it's an S13, so the engine probably isn't in tip-top shape, yet it's still making 160 on the stock ECU.

I could go find all these dynos for you, but honestly I'm tired of it. Every time I say something, somebody says to get a dyno. I then proceed to get a dyno, and people still ***** about it.

[nismofly]

hate to tell you but the first one on the list is a apex-i safc, thats a piggyback. not a standalone, but it does allow for tuning a lot more over a stock ecu. plus i mentioned anything that had to do with the engine on that list, whatever. sorry if your up against the ropes, just dont take it out on me for trying to put in my 2 cents.

[nismofly]

hey by the way articdragon, im thinking thats a de graph but just wanted to make sure since you didnt specify if it was dohc or sohc. looks a little strong to be a de graph though.

[ArticDragon192]

hey by the way articdragon, im thinking thats a de graph but just wanted to make sure since you didnt specify if it was dohc or sohc. looks a little strong to be a de graph though.

It's a KA24DE with 72k on it. Numbers should be higher but like I said, I had to take a 3rd gear pull. Next time I'm gonna disconnect the speed limiter to go on an actual 4th gear pull. I did get some numbers in 4th though. I made 130 ft-lbs of torque at 2.1k jsut to let you know.

[nismofly]

ok cool, i need to get a baseline pull done on my 89, i know people say around 15 hp but id like to see where i stand. thanks

[Nismo_Freak]

Yeah, because his Z32 fuel filter, KOYO radiator and ACT clutch are definitely improving his horsepower. There are about 5 actual mods in that list, not that many. Also, it's an S13, so the engine probably isn't in tip-top shape, yet it's still making 160 on the stock ECU.

I could go find all these dynos for you, but honestly I'm tired of it. Every time I say something, somebody says to get a dyno. I then proceed to get a dyno, and people still ***** about it.

Actually a Koyo can increase hp output ... but thats another post for another arguement.

His car is dyno tuned, and also has made 181rwhp with JWT cams on pretty much stock compression (shaved head slightly) on a freshly rebuild engine.

[RMiller]

Now that is sick. Higher CR pistons ought to get it pretty close to 200 whp. I knew it could be done, but some people just kept complaining.

How does a Koyo radiator increase power? As long as the car is at the right OT, what difference would it make? It could hurt if it runs too cold.

[InsanityInc]

Actually a Koyo can increase hp output ... but thats another post for another arguement.

His car is dyno tuned, and also has made 181rwhp with JWT cams on pretty much stock compression (shaved head slightly) on a freshly rebuild engine.

181@?

[RMiller]

If you can bore it to a 2.5 liter, that will add power too.I think this is enough to show one can get to the 200whp mark without breaking the bank.181 whp with stock intake manifold, stock pistons, SAFC and no timing control. Only has lightweight crank pulley, so can knock off a pound or two (or whatever it really is) by getting lighter accessory pulleys.

Sideshowbob, you're acting like a little girl. Is your idea an alcohol injection system? Putting dry ice on the throttle body? Ohhh, what about half-mooning the throttle plate rod?(I think that's what it's called) That last one is probably it. OR, he's talking about machining the stock intake manifold by cutting the runners short, and having a shop weld on an aluminum plenum made from a fat 4" tube welded shut (or however you want to do it). That would be pretty pricey, probably over $100 just for labor.

[toptechracing]

Some interesting actual data..

http://www.importtuner.com/tech/0210it_powerpages/

[keepingthe240]

rmiller. None of the parts you listed above. If you race, you most likey have 1 or 2 of these parts on your car already. 1 of other parts has a patent on it. THe company has no interest in making it for the nissan. Last but not least, the part(s) that will get you to 200 ( without it, i couldn't get 200 whp) Well, unless you have some money, don't ask!

[nismofly]

ban!

thats crap man now your bribing us or something. real cool mmkay thats great

[keepingthe240]

Sounds like you want something for nothing. You can spend money upfront or spend more down the road! You don't have the money upfront, so why waste your time explaining it.

[InsanityInc]

Some interesting actual data..

http://www.importtuner.com/tech/0210it_powerpages/

Notice the paltry gains from the 2.5"(60mm, actually) system.

[dubstyles240]

define paltry....

and sideshowbob, i think you've wasted more time taunting us than it would have taken to just say what this miracle mod is. you've also made a lot of people think you are an *******

[nismofly]

notice also how they gained so much more midrange with this 2.35 inch system than the 3" did in the other thread...

[InsanityInc]

notice also how they gained so much more midrange with this 2.35 inch system than the 3" did in the other thread...

So, tell me, do you actually believe your own blatant lies?

3": http://www.worldwidechang.com/...1.jpg

2.35": http://importtuner.com/tech/02...m.jpg

Seems pretty obvious the midrange gain is about the same, if not BETTER for the 3". I could draw up their derivative graphs and overlay them on the same sheet if you REALLY wanted me to, but I think it's pretty obvious that what you just said is incredibly false.