Religious Terrorism in the US

[telcoman]

Unhinged Gun/Religous zelots on the loose.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/....html

These are people that need to be waterboarded before being placed in solitary confinement for the rest of their lives.

Disgusting people in my opinion.

Telcoman

[Urabus GodofTraction]

So if he was stabbed to death it would have been by Unhinged Knife/Religious zelots?

[telcoman]

So if he was stabbed to death it would have been by Unhinged Knife/Religious zelots?

Yes but I don't believe a knife raises a constitutional question.

[sensibleS13driver]

Yes but I don't believe a knife raises a constitutional question.

A knife counts as "arms".

You really have no idea what you're talking about.

Sad story, though.

[dusred]

That man who shot him had no right but don't blame it on guns, afterall, the gun didn't pull it's own trigger.

Hate to say it and I'm sure I'll get flamed for it but anyone who calls themselves a "doctor" and kills babies really aught to be put to death.

I don't feel sorry for the doctor. Maybe now he can face all the children he killed before they had the chance to come here.

[LongBeachCoupe]

Figures you are from Utah lol...

The guy didnt kill babies dude, dont exaggerate, he terminated fetus, theres a difference.

Someone who tells me that my daughter (who hypothetically got raped and impregnated) needs to have the baby should be put to death IMO.

[AZhitman]

Let's not go there.

The statistical likelihood of pregnancy by rape is so infinitessimally small, yet trumpeted by so many pro-choice activists, it's criminal.

Back on topic.

[LongBeachCoupe]

Let's not go there.

The statistical likelihood of pregnancy by rape is so infinitessimally small, yet trumpeted by so many pro-choice activists, it's criminal.

Back on topic.

Statistical likelihood of a Armenian living in Arizona with a slew of Datsuns whose friends with a Jew in NY is slim too... doesnt mean you can avoid the small percentages...

Like in the waterboarding thread, sure the odds are a bajillion to one, but in a "24" scenario, where theres a nuke/bioweapon on standby, you are telling me if you know someone has info, you wont waterboard their arse??

Decisions are always easy when thinking about the majority IMO, its the minority that I usually stand up for. (regardless of if I am a part of it or not)

[dusred]

Figures you are from Utah lol...

What does that have to do with the price of rice in China?

[LongBeachCoupe]

What does that have to do with the price of rice in China?

You are from Utah, and I am from NY... our views on this subject are pretty much in line with the political views of an average joe in our area.

[dusred]

You are from Utah, and I am from NY... our views on this subject are pretty much in line with the political views of an average joe in our area.

Oh. I thought you were saying that Utahn's were smarter . JK

Back on topic here.

I find it humorous that "Operation Rescue" call themselves "Pro-Life" and than go kill people.

[nissangirl74]

Statistical likelihood of a Armenian living in Arizona with a slew of Datsuns whose friends with a Jew in NY is slim too... doesnt mean you can avoid the small percentages...

BTW...Greg is LOLing at that one

I find it humorous that "Operation Rescue" call themselves "Pro-Life" and than go kill people.

I find it disturbing.

Disregarding what the man did for a living, here is the cold, hard truth. Today, someone lost a husband, a father, a son, and a friend. There is no justification for these people when they have to watch him be lowered into the ground.

[Cold_Zero]

Unhinged Gun/Religous zelots on the loose.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/....html

Howie, where is your evidence that this was perpetrated by a religious zealot? Or did you, like my wife, just automatically jump to conclusions when you heard about this case? I knew some one was going to jump on the old Religious Zealot bashing band wagon to try and prove a political/social point. Well there you have it Howie, YOU are no better than the people that are scorn here in your thread. Well done, you just reacted to the CNN story and through one story become the judge and executioner. To be honest, you are really no different from a preacher that sits up in a pulpit and uses his sermon to prove a political or social agenda. I know it is easy and fun for you to bunch us (religious) people up into one ball, place a polemic name on it and throw it around. But you would hate it if I were to do the same thing to you!

I would prefer to wait for the details of the case to develop before jumping or coming to certain conclusions. We do not know if this guy was even the person that shot the doctor. Nor do we know the religious, political or social motives (if any) of the shooter. I can say this confidently, I am disgusted that someone would walk into a church or house of worship and shoot someone dead.

Quote »These are people that need to be waterboarded before being placed in solitary confinement for the rest of their lives.[/quote]Wait, what? So it is ok to torture people in this country? So a terrorlst picked up on the streets of Yemen for planning terrorlst attacks on the USA that is tortured at Gitmo is flat out wrong. But an American citizen that commits a crime that YOU feel passionate about, well then you are ok with torture? I wish you would make up your mind. You can not have it both ways.

I hope you were just being facetious in your comment.

Quote »Disgusting people in my opinion.Telcoman[/quote]As a Christian, anti-abortionist and conservative, I totally agree with you that the person that killed this doctor is disgusting. I would go further in saying that they should be brought to (the proper) justice and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. That person had no right legally or religiously to take justice into their own hands and should be turned over to the state to be punished, after they get a fair trial.[

[Cold_Zero]

I find it humorous that "Operation Rescue" call themselves "Pro-Life" and than go kill people.

Dusred,What are you basing your comments on? How was Operationa Rescue involved in this murder or any recent murders?

[WDRacing]

I find it disturbing.

Disregarding what the man did for a living, here is the cold, hard truth. Today, someone lost a husband, a father, a son, and a friend. There is no justification for these people when they have to watch him be lowered into the ground.

Awesome post...

/thread

I can find all sorts of ways to justify murder. However, murdering someone because of their profession is ridiculous. Is life full of sick nasty events that bother us to the core? Definitely...always will be. Think abortions are bad? Try looking at how people live in some 3rd world countries. Things are relevant to our own little bubbles because it's the only context we can relate to. Silly really...

Want to fight for a cause? Go right ahead and be passionate about something. But when you murder a person because he/she does something, that is currently accepted in our society, because it bothers you, then you yourself have become a problem far worse then the one you were fighting against.

Life happens and sometimes it sucks. Celebrate life today because some arrogant A-hole might feel justified in taking it tomorrow.

WD

[dusred]

Dusred,What are you basing your comments on? How was Operationa Rescue involved in this murder or any recent murders?

Maybe I should re-phrase my post to say:

"I find it humorous that "Operation Rescue" members call themselves "Pro-Life" and than go kill people".

As far as we can tell Operation Rescue didn't have any direct involvement in the murder.

[Cold_Zero]

Better, but not perfect.

bud

[themadscientist]

Typical of your work howie. Perhaps we should ban keyboards so you can't bother us with your diatribes?

Irony defied="pro life" person killing someone.

[legit240sx]

dude i can't lie some people who call themselves "christians" really don't know what its about..... like if christian actually lived the way they are supposed to it would be so different.

straight up Jesus was always pissed off at religious people, and im not talking about legit christians, Im talking about the high up, think that they know everything and can't get past their own judgemental thoughts to love and accept people for who they are....IE people who make christianity look bad...

so ends my rant after a graveyard shift

[themadscientist]

The pro lifers are like any other group, constantly undermined by the antics of a certain segment of their group.

[Logan76]

Life happens and sometimes it sucks. Celebrate life today because some arrogant A-hole might feel justified in taking it tomorrow.

Good post

[RiceRocketGal]

That man who shot him had no right but don't blame it on guns, afterall, the gun didn't pull it's own trigger.

Hate to say it and I'm sure I'll get flamed for it but anyone who calls themselves a "doctor" and kills babies really aught to be put to death.

I don't feel sorry for the doctor. Maybe now he can face all the children he killed before they had the chance to come here.

I agree with you on this one... and it's kinda hard to call me a religious zealot... what with me being Atheist and all.

This doctor was one of 3 left in the country who regularly performed "late term" abortions. For anyone who doesn't know what that means... it is when the baby would be perfectly able to live outside of the womb but they kill it anyway.

They kill it by dilating the cervix, extracting the live baby all the way out accept for it's head which they leave in the birth canal... and insert a syringe into the base of it's skull and kill it.

Most of the time when this procedure is done, the Dr says the mother's life was in danger, although I find it hard to believe the mom survived having everything removed but the baby's head but would have died had they pulled the head out alive... when they still have to pull the head out once the baby is killed anyway.

In Dr Tiller's case... his excuse for doing this was that the mother was depressed, stressed, etc and giving live birth would have worsened the condition. ..

So ya... apparently pulling the babies almost all the way out and then killing them wouldn't leave mental scars... but pulling the babies out the rest of the way and letting them live would have scarred these women for life...

BTW they pull the baby out backwards and kill it while it's head is in the birth canal (aka vagina) because if they pulled it out head first... it would legally be murder. Once the living head is out, the baby has right to life-saving medical care.

I don't feel sorry for this man. I don't feel sympathy for anyone who would befriend a monster like that. I don't condone murder of anyone and it was not this assassin's right to take this monster's life... but I simply cannot muster a tear for the "victim" in this case.

[Kohster]

Hate to say it and I'm sure I'll get flamed for it but anyone who calls themselves a "doctor" and kills babies really aught to be put to death.

*ought

[WDRacing]

I agree with you on this one... and it's kinda hard to call me a religious zealot... what with me being Atheist and all.

This doctor was one of 3 left in the country who regularly performed "late term" abortions. For anyone who doesn't know what that means... it is when the baby would be perfectly able to live outside of the womb but they kill it anyway.

They kill it by dilating the cervix, extracting the live baby all the way out accept for it's head which they leave in the birth canal... and insert a syringe into the base of it's skull and kill it.

Most of the time when this procedure is done, the Dr says the mother's life was in danger, although I find it hard to believe the mom survived having everything removed but the baby's head but would have died had they pulled the head out alive... when they still have to pull the head out once the baby is killed anyway.

In Dr Tiller's case... his excuse for doing this was that the mother was depressed, stressed, etc and giving live birth would have worsened the condition. ..

So ya... apparently pulling the babies almost all the way out and then killing them wouldn't leave mental scars... but pulling the babies out the rest of the way and letting them live would have scarred these women for life...

BTW they pull the baby out backwards and kill it while it's head is in the birth canal (aka vagina) because if they pulled it out head first... it would legally be murder. Once the living head is out, the baby has right to life-saving medical care.

I don't feel sorry for this man. I don't feel sympathy for anyone who would befriend a monster like that. I don't condone murder of anyone and it was not this assassin's right to take this monster's life... but I simply cannot muster a tear for the "victim" in this case.

I guess ignorance is bliss...

I could have gone the rest of my life without hearing that. I have two kids and one on the way. So topics that involve children are especially close to home for me. I'm glad you posted though, because an informed opinion is always the better one.

I agree btw...not a tear.

WD

[joe603]

We have a guy at work who is extreme pro-life...I'm more of a middle of the road pro-choice, so we have "discussions" every now and then.

Anyway, he did make a good point:

"If you can kill a baby while it's in the womb kicking and reacting to stimuli, and the rational is that it isn't considered human yet, then let me ask you this: What is human? Is it when we have intelligence? When does that occur? Is it when we have our first memories? If that's the case, then it should be OK to kill a baby up to 2 years old...when was your first memory?"

I found it difficult to argue with that logic.

So that's why I consider myself a middle of the road pro-choice...I don't agree in late-term abortions, but there should be the option of early termination. Things like the morning after pill, birth control devices, and early abortions (pre-fetus, up to week 8) should be legal and used without the social stigma that it can currently carry.

I think that if abortions were not legal after the 8th week, 90% of people would be OK with that. The extremists on both sides of the fence would just have to suck it up.

[telcoman]

Howie, where is your evidence that this was perpetrated by a religious zealot? Or did you, like my wife, just automatically jump to conclusions when you heard about this case? I knew some one was going to jump on the old Religious Zealot bashing band wagon to try and prove a political/social point. Well there you have it Howie, YOU are no better than the people that are scorn here in your thread. Well done, you just reacted to the CNN story and through one story become the judge and executioner. To be honest, you are really no different from a preacher that sits up in a pulpit and uses his sermon to prove a political or social agenda. I know it is easy and fun for you to bunch us (religious) people up into one ball, place a polemic name on it and throw it around. But you would hate it if I were to do the same thing to you!

I would prefer to wait for the details of the case to develop before jumping or coming to certain conclusions. We do not know if this guy was even the person that shot the doctor. Nor do we know the religious, political or social motives (if any) of the shooter. I can say this confidently, I am disgusted that someone would walk into a church or house of worship and shoot someone dead.

Wait, what? So it is ok to torture people in this country? So a terrorlst picked up on the streets of Yemen for planning terrorlst attacks on the USA that is tortured at Gitmo is flat out wrong. But an American citizen that commits a crime that YOU feel passionate about, well then you are ok with torture? I wish you would make up your mind. You can not have it both ways.

I hope you were just being facetious in your comment.

As a Christian, anti-abortionist and conservative, I totally agree with you that the person that killed this doctor is disgusting. I would go further in saying that they should be brought to (the proper) justice and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. That person had no right legally or religiously to take justice into their own hands and should be turned over to the state to be punished, after they get a fair trial.[

The abortions the Dr was performing were legal abortions.

He was only one of three doctors in the US that specialized in late term abortions. These were babies that were going to be born with severe medical issues that woman, their OBGYN's, husbands decided they could not handle a deformed or mentally ill infant.

Where does any group have the right to force a woman to have an unwanted child.

Christians and other religous groups are free to practice their religion here in the USNone of these groups have the right to impose their beliefs or practices on others.INMHO these groups should all lose any tax exempt status they may have. The wingnuts belong in jail.

The federal marshalls are now keeping a close eye on these wingnuts.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/....html

Another religous mental case with a gun

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06...ml?hp

Telcoman
Modified by telcoman at 5:37 PM 6/1/2009

[audtatious]

The person or people who killed the doctor is just as bad as the probable anti-war folks that shot the two recruiters today (killing one thus far) in Little Rock. I assume a number of far left extremist support the shooting, are you going to call your fellow wingnut Dems out?

[RiceRocketGal]

The abortions the Dr was performing were legal abortions.

He was only one of three doctors in the US that specialized in late term abortions. These were babies that were going to be born with severe medical issues that woman, their OBGYN's, husbands decided they could not handle a deformed or mentally ill infant.

Where does any group have the right to force a woman to have an unwanted child.

Christians and other religous groups are free to practice their religion here in the USNone of these groups have the right to impose their beliefs or practices on others.INMHO these groups should all lose any tax exempt status they may have. The wingnuts belong in jail.

The federal marshalls are now keeping a close eye on these wingnuts.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/....html

Another religous mental case with a gun

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06...ml?hp

Telcoman

Modified by telcoman at 5:37 PM 6/1/2009

I would suggest you get your information from someone other than Huffington and the LIBERAL TIMES.

Among his "late term" abortions were HUNDREDS of PERFECTLY HEALTHY viable babies... and were reported BY HIS OFFICE to the KS medical board as having been performed because ""the attending physician believed that continuing the pregnancy constitute a substantial and irreversible impairment of the patient's mental function."

http://online.wsj.com/article/....html

"Dr. Tiller's willingness to perform abortions even into the ninth month of pregnancy made him a longtime focal point for anti-abortion protests.

Kansas law prohibits aborting fetuses that could live outside the womb -- a milestone that is generally reached midway through the second trimester -- unless two doctors certify that continuing the pregnancy would cause the woman "substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function." Dr. Tiller cited that reason for aborting hundreds of viable fetuses over the years at his clinic.

Dr. Tiller was well-known for providing abortions for women who discovered late in pregnancy that their fetuses had severe or fatal birth defects. He also aborted healthy late-term fetuses. Some of his patients, he said, were drug addicted and some were as young as 9 years old."



Ya.. an abortion on a 9 year old... that he didn't report to child protective services OR the police as he was mandated to do by law.. since the fact that a 9 year old was pregnant was proof positive that a CHILD RAPE had occurred.

And hios "2nd opinion" he had to have according to law... was a DR who worked FOR HIM.. in HIS OFFICE. Not exactly free of conflict of interest.

[Cold_Zero]

The abortions the Dr was performing were legal abortions.

He was only one of three doctors in the US that specialized in late term abortions. These were babies that were going to be born with severe medical issues that woman, their OBGYN's, husbands decided they could not handle a deformed or mentally ill infant.

Where does any group have the right to force a woman to have an unwanted child.

Christians and other religous groups are free to practice their religion here in the USNone of these groups have the right to impose their beliefs or practices on others.INMHO these groups should all lose any tax exempt status they may have. The wingnuts belong in jail.

The federal marshalls are now keeping a close eye on these wingnuts.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/....html

Another religous mental case with a gun

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06...ml?hp

Telcoman

Modified by telcoman at 5:37 PM 6/1/2009

Howie,I know you are just reacting to me and not to what I said. You might want to go back and re-read what I said. No where did I say any of the things that you are accusing.

With that said, I had no clue that late term abortions were even legal in this country. Obviously from what others have posted, I guess I have been out of the loop so to speak.

I would love to stay and debate with you, but we have some heavy thunderstorms coming and I need to leave work to get home to my girls.bud

[telcoman]

I would suggest you get your information from someone other than Huffington and the LIBERAL TIMES.

Among his "late term" abortions were HUNDREDS of PERFECTLY HEALTHY viable babies... and were reported BY HIS OFFICE to the KS medical board as having been performed because ""the attending physician believed that continuing the pregnancy constitute a substantial and irreversible impairment of the patient's mental function."

http://online.wsj.com/article/....html

"Dr. Tiller's willingness to perform abortions even into the ninth month of pregnancy made him a longtime focal point for anti-abortion protests.

Kansas law prohibits aborting fetuses that could live outside the womb -- a milestone that is generally reached midway through the second trimester -- unless two doctors certify that continuing the pregnancy would cause the woman "substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function." Dr. Tiller cited that reason for aborting hundreds of viable fetuses over the years at his clinic.

Dr. Tiller was well-known for providing abortions for women who discovered late in pregnancy that their fetuses had severe or fatal birth defects. He also aborted healthy late-term fetuses. Some of his patients, he said, were drug addicted and some were as young as 9 years old."



Ya.. an abortion on a 9 year old... that he didn't report to child protective services OR the police as he was mandated to do by law.. since the fact that a 9 year old was pregnant was proof positive that a CHILD RAPE had occurred.

And hios "2nd opinion" he had to have according to law... was a DR who worked FOR HIM.. in HIS OFFICE. Not exactly free of conflict of interest.

No one is forcing anyone opposed to abortion to have one.

But why are those opposed sticking their nose in something that does not concern them?

Why are those that are so opposed not willing to take and raise the deformed, mentally challenged, and other unwanted babies? These should also not become a burden upon tax payers.

Dr Tiller was recently found not guilty of all charges against him.

NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO KILL A DOCTOR THAT IS PERFORMING A LEGAL PROCEDURE!

This is terrorism and those that support this are domestic terrorists

The WSJ used to be a decent paper until Murdoch took it over.It is almost like Fox news. Mostly unfair and unbalanced

The NYT is still the nations newspaper and is read all over the world.

It is one of the few newspapers left that still has good investigative reporters.

Just my $.02

Telcoman