Reality TV has GONE TO FAR!!!

[AZhitman]

I'd do just fine in a chaotic society. I find that those who believe that they'd prefer to live in an anarchist environment, however, are often the ones who are least equipped to survive in that world.

[I H8 UR DSM]

Don't laugh at this...but "The Beach" is one of my favorite movies : )

[AZhitman]

but is the 'church'?

Depends on the church. Mine is non-denominational and teaches that birth control and masturbatlon are not addressed in the Bible and therefore not prohibited explicitly. In other words, that's between you and God.

[Sopdadope]

Don't laugh at this...but "The Beach" is one of my favorite movies : )

And The Lord of the Flies is one of mine. :ylsuper

[AZhitman]

I though religious people didnt have these arguements, as their faith is all that matters, so they wouldnt even bother with this discussion

You're learning more every day, my friend.

[Megaseth]

also, what about animal activists. I dont agree that cruelty to animals is correct, infact i want to beat the living sh*t out of people who do horrible things to animals. but animal activists think animals are the same as people. i dont think they should be treated bad, but i dont think they should ahve the smae rights as humans. they were put on this earth for us, not to be on the same level as us.

but then again, all this is based on Bible knowledge, which is what is being disputed right now.

[AZhitman]

Brilliant stuff Dees. Welcome back.

Seth - I have a reply for you, it's gonna hafta wait (it'll be long).

[Megaseth]

I'd do just fine in a chaotic society. I find that those who believe that they'd prefer to live in an anarchist environment, however, are often the ones who are least equipped to survive in that world.

that is totally true. all these kids claiming they want anarchy would have no idea how to survive. and the funny thing is, these kids are all preaching about getting rid of an oppressive government, yet they wont put as much effort into getting it changed.

[AZhitman]

Sope, I almost cried reading your post - What a great testimony to our country - flawed as it may be, it's still the greatest nation on earth.

Emphasis: ALMOST.

[Meantime]

I worship Gozer, a small stuffed puppet in my sock drawer. He's good to me. Aren't you Gozer? (puppet voice) "You da man!"

How about if we get back to the original topic. Regardless of religious/social mores and the varying beliefs therein, can we all agree that "Reality TV" has enjoyed its 15 minutes and should henceforth be obliterated? I think I would rather watch an hour of cosmic radiation on the tube than another three months of "Survivor", "The Bachelor" or any inane variant thereof.

[Megaseth]

Im getting a little tired of the trading places type shows where people redo each others houses. i like the Home Again and stuff on PBS where they do some bada$$ restorations, but those stupid reality "will we ahve enough time to finish" shows suck

[AZhitman]

Abso-friggin-lutely.

I'll bet the Almighty Gozer would concur.

[AZhitman]

Jesse, as evidenced by your post, you've been exposed to nothing but negative images of faith and Christianity... Granny's got some issues, and TV is by far the worst offender.

There's a book out called "A Case For Faith" by Lee Strobel - It's a great book for those of us (me included) who like to THINK and seek to understand such matters as we're discussing from a realistic point of view. Not a book that's intended to convert anyone, but a brilliantly written (and sometimes humorous) work. Pick it up on Amazon for a couple bucks - if you dare.

Or, I'll send you my copy, but I'll expect it back... I'm a nice guy, eh?

[Megaseth]

anyone ever stop and think about why the Roman Catholic religion was started. Jesus was a threat to Rome. when all these people were dying for him, and became more devoute when Jesus was sold out and murdered, they saw that if they embraced the religion, they would regain all the power.

[I H8 UR DSM]

Jesse, as evidenced by your post, you've been exposed to nothing but negative images of faith and Christianity... Granny's got some issues, and TV is by far the worst offender.

There's a book out called "A Case For Faith" by Lee Strobel - It's a great book for those of us (me included) who like to THINK and seek to understand such matters as we're discussing from a realistic point of view. Not a book that's intended to convert anyone, but a brilliantly written (and sometimes humorous) work. Pick it up on Amazon for a couple bucks - if you dare.

Or, I'll send you my copy, but I'll expect it back... I'm a nice guy, eh?

Well i think i had pretty unbiased exposure at St. Johns University through the theology courses i took or was required to take....and i understand faith, and like i said, i think its good for some people, and gives them something to live for...but i feel those people are missing something. I do feel they could fill their lives with something more beneficial if they had the right exposure, but sometimes people have gone through a lot, and therefor 'weak minded' (alcoholism, reformed criminals etc) and fall into faith as to give them something to feel better about themselves, which isnt bad....but i dont believe its best either.

If it wasnt for faith, i dont know what my grandma would have to live for. She can live her life, based on doing what the bible says is right, so she can go to the afterlife happy....so thats what pleases her, and thats fine...

I personally think the pleasures she has given up throughout her life, and things she hasnt experienced has made her less of a person than she could have been...and i think thats a direct result of following religion...i sure hope there is an afterlife, for her...otherwise, she could have experienced so much more.

[Meantime]

Gozer is telling me, "Ah pity da fool who don't live while dey be kickin'."

Gozer also just told me to go home, it's quitting time. "Get lost turkey"

[BIONICQ45]

Well i think i had pretty unbiased exposure at St. Johns University through the theology courses i took or was required to take....and i understand faith, and like i said, i think its good for some people, and gives them something to live for...but i feel those people are missing something. I do feel they could fill their lives with something more beneficial if they had the right exposure, but sometimes people have gone through a lot, and therefor 'weak minded' (alcoholism, reformed criminals etc) and fall into faith as to give them something to feel better about themselves, which isnt bad....but i dont believe its best either.

If it wasnt for faith, i dont know what my grandma would have to live for. She can live her life, based on doing what the bible says is right, so she can go to the afterlife happy....so thats what pleases her, and thats fine...

I personally think the pleasures she has given up throughout her life, and things she hasnt experienced has made her less of a person than she could have been...and i think thats a direct result of following religion...i sure hope there is an afterlife, for her...otherwise, she could have experienced so much more.

Jesse, I can’t speak for all religions but Christianity is meant to help one become perfect. Plan and simple. The Bible teaches that we should strive to be like God.

Matt. 5: 48 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Matt. 19: 21 21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

What better role model than God himself?What part of this concept deprives one of pleasures? To which pleasures are you referring? The betterment of one’s self seems to be a worthwhile endeavor to me. I find pleasure in doing what I know to be right. Trust me there is no need for you to feel pity for anyone who lives their lives in accordance with the teaching of God. Quite the contrary; pity those who have a misguided view of pleasure.

It is incontrovertible that true pleasure and happiness comes from good wholesome living. People indulging in “pleasure” commit suicide daily. They seek pleasure in alcohol, drugs, women (or men), money, power, etc. and can’t seem to fill their void because they know not where to look. Do not confuse punctual pleasure with true happiness.

Obeying divine laws gives a person freedom not bondage. Take for example the concept of the body being a temple. If we all treated our bodies as such, we wouldn’t have people that are slaves to cigarettes, alcohol, fast food/obesity and drugs. They are miserable, some don’t have control of themselves due to substances abuse, homes are wrecked and lives are taken prematurely. Those who indulge in these “pleasures” are missing out on freedom and happiness.

It is clear that structure is a good thing and that rules are imperative to insure order. How much more important and necessary are divine rules from a loving Deity?

[fiznat]

jeez.. I go away for a day at work and come back to 5 pages of some pretty interesting stuff!

I had a lot of issues with much of what has been said (by both those who might seem on my side as well as against), but I think I can sum alot of it up by asking what do people think of social contract as a basis for human morality. I really feel like bringing in the bible (and with it it's many varying interpretations) as a basis for this argument is going to cause more problems than it solves. Some people beleive in and follow the word of God, while others do not. Some people arent even so sure that a God really exists (and, beleive it or not, I am included in this group).

Let's try to take a homosexuality in the light of social contract morality. Is there a need for it to be "wrong" in a purely social sense? That is: if there is no dissaproving God up above, what else makes homosexuality undesirable?

[fiznat]

It is incontrovertible that true pleasure and happiness comes from good wholesome living. People indulging in “pleasure” commit suicide daily. They seek pleasure in alcohol, drugs, women (or men), money, power, etc. and can’t seem to fill their void because they know not where to look. Do not confuse punctual pleasure with true happiness.

Socrates said the same thing, except instead of a God, he used knowledge (wisdom, understanding of the forms, etc) as his goal. It seems to me that he was a little more on target than those who simply cut to the chase and argue that God is the ultimate right. The fact of the matter is, we DO NOT understand God enough to attempt to model our lives after him (it, her, whatever). It is better that we should spend our lives in the persuit of the understanding of what God really stands for: that way we neither fall victim to whatever minipulations are in god's popular image, nor are led astray by our own, rushed conculsions based on the readings of a single text. Take your time to understand God if you wish to follow his example: it's the first step, one that can take a lifetime, but I think it is more important than simply following rules.

PS: this is how I am able to remain undecided about the existence of a God. I beleive that it is more important that I spend my time trying to figure out the ideals that "he" stands for than simply worshiping a pre-packaged set of morals handed to me by the church at my confirmation.

[big jon's 240]

Wow. I go on vacation for a couple of weeks, and all of a sudden NICO is all Christianity, gay TV shows, and wet T-shirts, WTF? I have seen way too many religious discusions get ugly.

[Megaseth]

haha, this one is actually pretty civil, so far.

[Bubba1]

Secondly, I'm a law-abiding citizen because of the physical consequences (nightmares of Big Bad Bubba)

Hey, I'm not that bad. My wife thinks I'm a teddy bear....I just read the entire thread. Very impressed. Great points made and no attacks. Good job

[mmerritt2]

And fire and brimstone? Please. God made homosexuals, he loves them as much as he loves you. [/QUOTE]

yeah, i don't think so! do you see any homosexuals in the bible? they are referred to as evil sinners if i am not mistaken, and if this was the case, god would have made adam and adam, not adam and eve! just my thoughts! don't flame, i don't have anything against homosexuals, they are the funniest people alive if you ask me (have great sense of humor). but don't go thinking for god when some of his thoughts are in the bible about that! thanks for reading!

[toki]

ok I barely even read the first 2 pages of the thread, so excuse me if I am repeating something anyone has already said but:

Homosexually, Pedophelia, Eating Disorders (belimia), and rampent bedauchery all were prevelent and the undisputed cause for the fall of Rome thousands of years ago. It was the America of it's day, we are heading in the same direction..just slower.

[mmerritt2]

i very much agree!

[Megaseth]

God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

[mmerritt2]

yeah, i've heard that one before, and it very much applies!

[nametakennow]

Woo... somehow when I read this thread when it was new last night, I knew it would be a firestorm. However, look at the posts, almost everyone is saying the same thing, so why bother to argue? Everyone has the same rights to do the same things, in public or not, no matter what their "lifestyle" or "sexual orientation" or whatever the hell you want to call it. Its stupid to say that any side should be afforded special rights, and that goes for other issues, such as race and religion, too. The only problem I see is having these massive "Gay Pride" parades and rallies, have you ever seen a "Straight Pride" parade or rally? If so, I'll shut up. Now I'll address a few other issues I've seen. I believe many of you don't have the necessary scholarly background in the Bible to make judgements as to what it does and does not say, so don't. As for birth control, whether or not the church says anything is moot, in the end people make the decision, some people do not like birth control, or some forms thereof, so they don't use it. If the Bible mentions something about it (I honestly do not know), then those of us (including myself) that believe God and His word can do so. In the end, these issues can only be addressed by the person faced with them, I cannot force anyone to believe in God (I have friends who are atheist), nor can I force them to be part of my sect of religion, or my division of one particular religion (I have friends, including my girlfriend, who are Catholic, I am a non-denominational Christian). I can certainly not make anyone believe my political views (some of my friends are liberal, I am moderate with slightly conservative leanings), nor can I make them follow the same "sexual orientation" I have (though, to my knowledge, none of my friends are homosexual, and in case you haven't guessed it, I'm heterosexual). I can't, and nor can anyone else, force my views on another, so don't try. It is healthy to debate an issue, and it seems that, in the majority of the posts, people have simply had a healthy debate, but it is not healthy to fight over an issue, so don't. Enjoy your night!

[nissanrose]

i agree the reality crap has got to stop. i don't wanna see 2 guys kissing on t.v. it is really 2 far. but then agian its up to me what i watch if i don't wanna see i'll just turn the t.v. its up to the parents to decide what their kids can watch andcan not watch. personally i wouldn't let my kids watch it. its just plain sick. but if thats your way of life then its your way of life it how you chose to live your life. i have three friends that are bi sexual and i just looked at them when the told me and said ight look here i don't care that you are bi,but i don't agree with it so as long as you don't try to get me into it and start telling me about having sex with other girls i'm cool. i knew it wasn't my place to say well you can't live like that.i hate it when people try to tell who i should be and how i should run my life so i'm not gonna do it to someone else. y'all have a goodnight!! it after midnight i'm going to bed!!

[AZhitman]

Good stuff, y'all.

I said it last night, and I'll say it again - When you guys put your mind to something, many of you are not only good critical thinkers, but also brilliant writers. I have long believed that being able to express oneself well, both verbally and in writing, is THE premier skill one can offer in today's workforce.

Congratulations, not only on some great points, but on exercising restraint and civility. This level of open communication is so good to engage in... Some of you who are still in your early 20's or younger will see the benefits someday.