Re-Tuning G35 engines to run on lower Octane

[C-Kwik]

So, I have been used to speed since I was a kid. I probably would have become a race car driver, but, my parents wantd me to get an education. So, I just drive cars to see what they are capable of doing. I don't do doughnuts or burn outs. I might racxe, and I only do so after taking tin to account so many other factors like the state of my tires, how my body feels and is responding, how my car is responding on that day, the way the other driver is behaving--whether they are mature, complascent, or just reckless--I can tell from the way the driver seats in the car, a littel bit about their minds set, and the risks of getting a ticket.

For me, driving is not about holding a steering wheel and stepping on the pedals. It is a lot more involved than that. For example, each steering input, dependinig on the car, requires a certain level of braking if going fast. You can't apply the brakes the same way with different steering input.

Regardless of how good a driver you actually are (or percieve yourself to be), how is it relevant to any part of this discussion? Being "in touch" with a car doesn't somehow add credibility to any argument about the technical aspects of a car or the technical aspects of driving.

Another example is when I am driving and I start smelling the clutch burning, at speeds in excess of 80 miles per hour, I hold down the clutch pedal for about a few seconds, while placing the stick in neutral. This way, you allow the clutch to dissipate heat for a few seconds before letting it go back to the fly wheel. Then, you go ahead and engage the gears again. All this is happeneing at high speeds.

Based on this statement alone, it makes me doubt both your technical knowledge and your driving skills. First, it takes a lot of work to overheat a clutch. When a clutch is engaged, it stays engaged (assuming the engine's output doesn't exceed the clutch's torque holding capacity) until you press the clutch. Driving faster doesn't heat the clutch. Heat is introduced to a clutch when slipping occurs. This is generally highest when starting out from a stop. If driven correctly (even when racing), the process of shifting generates relatively little heat.

Frankly, leaving the clutch engaged will likely dissipate heat faster as the heavy mass of the flywheel will absorb heat faster than the very thin layer of air that might exist between either side of the clutch disc and the flywheel and pressure plate.

I don't drive for luxury. I drive because it gives me much joy to know how a car behaves under different driving conditions, inputs, and mechanical conditions.

This is why I am always skeptical of those magazine remarks about each type of car's drining behavior. Very few of those magazine drivers drive their cars very slowly to see how it feels at slow speeds versus at high speeds. And by slowly, I mean 20 - 25 miles per hour for about 30 minutes. and then, stomp on the gas pedal to see how it behaves in instantaneous and unpredicatbale way. Of course, the tires and suspension will react to the instant request of power. And of course, you demand that power without stop until you reach a 100 miles per hour, and then you brake instantly back to 25 miles per hour and continue driving for another 30 minutes to see how the cooling system and transmission is behaving under such stresses. Manufacturers never write of this type of behavior when you buy a car. Drivers have to find this out by themselves.

The short stint of acceleration you describe probably pales in comparison to what most magazine writers will put a car through. Many actually put the car through laps at a race track. It's doubtful you'll ever find the room to ever put a car through the type of abuse a car experiences at a race track on the street. One look at the condition of a set of tires that have been put through a number of track laps will be evidence of that.

[telcoman]

No sense in locking it... theres great info in this thread and some friendly bantering. Unless it gets out of hand, no reason to lock it.

Besides, CK is also a mod, he can lock it anytime if he would like! But I know he welcomes a good debate..

So regular 87 octane dropped to $2.69 a gallon today if you pay cash. I'm keeping in touch with my G.

Telcoman

[Jacko3]

C-Kwik:

I will have to disagree with you when you said:

"First, it takes a lot of work to overheat a clutch. When a clutch is engaged, it stays engaged (assuming the engine's output doesn't exceed the clutch's torque holding capacity) until you press the clutch. Driving faster doesn't heat the clutch. Heat is introduced to a clutch when slipping occurs. This is generally highest when starting out from a stop. If driven correctly (even when racing), the process of shifting generates relatively little heat.

Frankly, leaving the clutch engaged will likely dissipate heat faster as the heavy mass of the flywheel will absorb heat faster than the very thin layer of air that might exist between either side of the clutch disc and the flywheel and pressure plate. "

It does not take that much work to overheat a clutch. Again, your driving style is different from mine. So, I can't say. I have a second manual transmission car, a Nissan, whose OEm clutch once wore out in 2 years. And when this was going on, I was routinely smellig burning clutch at high speeds. I have a non OEM clutch in that car, and it has survived every type of abuse I can throw at it. It does chatter though, but, I am used to the chatter by now.

I never said, driving faster overheats the clutch. You are putting words in my mouth. I said, "when I am driving fast, and the clutch starts to have a burning smell...."

What is the point discussing the mechanics of the car when those who really drive their cars cannot tell you how their driving experience has led to the mechanical issues they have, which knowledgable people like you and others, are able to diagnose. So, talking about the way we drive is a good piece of information, should peoiple like us need your expertise in diagnosing any issues later. You see, it is all about teamwork---drivers and mechanics.

So, what are you are saying is that the burning smell my nose sense during high speeds is caused by slipping. So you are saying that when I smell oil burning as well, it is caused by what?

The flywheel is also absorbihng heat from the engine, so the little pocket of air in between the fly wheel and the clutch wil help with some much needed cooling by heat transfer. That is why I remove the clutch from the flywheel by depressing the pedal because I have personally noticed a reduction in burning clutch smell when I do so. I learnt this lesson with my little car when the OEM clutch burnt out.

So, I am unsure what your experiences are. It sone thing to theorize about these things, as you do, and its one thing to experience it first hand. I have never questioned your technical skills. So, don't question my driving skills.

Drivers and mechanics work hand in hand, and it would be quite nice to recognize that. So, what is wrong in touting one's skill? Do you have a problem with this? You and others have been touting your mechanical skills for months, and perhaps years. Please, give me a break!

[rn79870]

I think premium hit $2.99/gal here today too. I love Costco.

In other news, While parked waiting for my wife at the pharmacy today, I turned my XM to channel 157, and a "Loading Video" message appeared on the screen. It continued to display "Loading Video" for a minute before it changed to the next available channel. I thought I was on the cutting edge of technology as I held my breath waiting for some great video content. I'm serious, I got that message, but no video. (no there is no DVD in the player.)

[rn79870]

C-Kwik. There are several things that can make a clutch slip besides riding the clutch. Oil, hydraulic fluid or even water on clutch plate, worn clutch plate, weak clutch diaphragm spring or a warped flywheel. All of these might feel, even smell of a slipping clutch. jacko3's clutch may be slipping for one of those reasons at higher speed/power settings.

I drove 2 Mustangs, (one for over 70k and the other with 77k when they were sold,) and never had a clutch problem. But they were not hydraulic clutches either if that makes a difference. Then it dawned on me...there is no reason to have a clutch in a car! Clutches are for trucks... and tractors... 1 liter foreign cars with 3 cylinders. and Dodge Colts.

God bless the Sturtevant brothers of Boston, for inventing the first automatic transmission, albeit a 2 speed, in 1904.

[AZhitman]

Then it dawned on me...there is no reason to have a clutch in a car!

God bless the Sturtevant brothers of Boston, for inventing the first automatic transmission, albeit a 2 speed, in 1904.

I was really thinking you might have something to say until I read this...

6/7ths of my "fleet" has a clutch.

[AZhitman]

I was taught that with the FI Fords that the electric fuel pump was in the fuel tank. And that the pump was lubricated by the fuel it pumped.

Almost correct.

Cooled by the fuel, not lubricated.

Pumps operating in a continually "dry" tank can heat up, diminishing their lifespan.

[rn79870]

I was really thinking you might have something to say until I read this...

6/7ths of my "fleet" has a clutch.

Yeah, I found the MT's harder to sell too.

[rn79870]

Almost correct.

Cooled by the fuel, not lubricated.

Pumps operating in a continually "dry" tank can heat up, diminishing their lifespan.

The in-tank location helps muffle the buzzing noise produced by the electric pump motor, and immersing the pump in fuel helps lubricate and cool the pump motor.

The fuel pump should last the life of the vehicle, but it may fail as a result of contamination inside the fuel tank (dirt or rust), fuel starvation (running out of gas), overheating (always driving with a low fuel level)

http://www.aa1car.com/library/fuel_pump.htm

This is what Ford taught in their tech classes too.

[C-Kwik]

It does not take that much work to overheat a clutch. Again, your driving style is different from mine. So, I can't say. I have a second manual transmission car, a Nissan, whose OEm clutch once wore out in 2 years. And when this was going on, I was routinely smellig burning clutch at high speeds. I have a non OEM clutch in that car, and it has survived every type of abuse I can throw at it. It does chatter though, but, I am used to the chatter by now.

You know what? You're right. Perhaps I should have limited my statement. Clutches aren't hard to overheat. But it's hard to do if you actually intend to win a race. Think of it this way. A car puts out a given amount of energy through the drivetrain. Anytime you are slipping the clutch or disengaging it, it is no longer putting that energy to moving the car towards the finish line any quicker. In fact, when you are slipping the clutch, it is converting energy that could be used to propel the car forward and increase its speed, into heat. Since I apparently need to include exceptions, the exception might be while lauching a car in which case some clutch slippage might be helpful by allowing the engine to operate where there is more available torque. Though, it will be for a relatively limited amount of time.

Just out of curiousity, what is this little Nissan you keep referring to?

I never said, driving faster overheats the clutch. You are putting words in my mouth. I said, "when I am driving fast, and the clutch starts to have a burning smell...."

My mistake. I misread your post. But my point still stands. If your clutch is emitting a burning smell, I'd speculate it might be poor driving techniques. This is of course assuming there are no mechanical problems that exist that might prevent proper operation according to the design.

What is the point discussing the mechanics of the car when those who really drive their cars cannot tell you how their driving experience has led to the mechanical issues they have, which knowledgable people like you and others, are able to diagnose. So, talking about the way we drive is a good piece of information, should peoiple like us need your expertise in diagnosing any issues later. You see, it is all about teamwork---drivers and mechanics.

Well, there is a large difference between having to resolve problems or upgrade a car to withstand poor driving techniques and resolving an issue that might have occurred anyways. To some extent, upgrading parts may be necessary to be competetive in this regard, but not a band aid for unnecessary abuse. You should consider adjusting your driving habits when a mechanic or engineer gives you advice about how you might be able to drive faster as well. Or even advice on how not to break your car. After all, a broken car doesn't cross the finish line...

So, what are you are saying is that the burning smell my nose sense during high speeds is caused by slipping. So you are saying that when I smell oil burning as well, it is caused by what?

Likely. Why that is? Well, depends on a lot of things. But driving style shouldn't be one of them. As for the oil, that's likely unrelated to the clutch. You should probably get that checked out.

The flywheel is also absorbihng heat from the engine, so the little pocket of air in between the fly wheel and the clutch wil help with some much needed cooling by heat transfer. That is why I remove the clutch from the flywheel by depressing the pedal because I have personally noticed a reduction in burning clutch smell when I do so. I learnt this lesson with my little car when the OEM clutch burnt out.

Have you actually looked at a clutch before? Do you have at least a basic understanding of physics/chemistry? When you depress a clutch pedal, the actual amount of movement the pressure plate's friction surface makes is quite small. It would be measured in millimeters here. Air has little density. Basically it has very few molecules for a given volume when compared to a solid or even a liquid. That means any heat transfer that exists is going to be very slow. Consider that for a radiator to cool the coolant, it has to have a very large amount of surface area, relative to it's mass. It helps expose the radiator to a lot of air. Another example is your brakes. It's surface area is nowhere near as great as a radiator, but it cools effectively by pumping air through it's internal vanes. Racing brakes use spiral venting to pump even more air to maximize cooling abilities. If many of the major racing teams were allowed to, they'd probably be using liquid cooled brakes as liquid provides a denser, more effective medium to cool with. I mean, how many air-cooled motors do you see nowadays?

Quite frankly, if you didn't overheat the clutch in the first place, you wouldn't need to have to cool it down...Hell, you might actually be faster.

So, I am unsure what your experiences are. It sone thing to theorize about these things, as you do, and its one thing to experience it first hand. I have never questioned your technical skills. So, don't question my driving skills.

Are you suggesting that we should take everything posted in a forum at face value? Especially in a venue in which we can't validate everyone else's knowledge and experience first hand? Honestly though, I could care less about your driving skill. I find it rather irrelevant to this discussion. But I bring it into question because what you claim as your reasoning for your arguments does not make sense when I apply whatever knowledge of physics and with my own driving experience (which includes race track experience btw).

I assume that anything I post here is fair game for anyone to question if they feel that is the case. And I'll gladly do my best to explain my position and listen to anyone else's (includiung yours)

Drivers and mechanics work hand in hand, and it would be quite nice to recognize that. So, what is wrong in touting one's skill? Do you have a problem with this? You and others have been touting your mechanical skills for months, and perhaps years. Please, give me a break!

Yes they do. But mechanics/engineers aren't there to fix problems that drivers are unreasonably causing. It's one thing if your driving technique could actually net better results. Then it might actually be worth looking for a way to remedy the issues that might be caused by such techniques. It's another to have to remedy a technique that doesn't have better results or perhaps is causing worse results.

I could care less if you want to brag about your skills. But when you essentially use that as your basis for explanation that the OEM clutch sucks, well, then expect that it can be called into question. Not only is it highly irrelevant, but what you describe suggests your driving skills are not as good as you seem to believe. This is, of course, my opinion and assessment based on what you have said. And you are more than welcome to challenge my opinions. As I stated above, anything I post here is fair game.

[smockers83]

Take it to him C-Kwik. Just as a piece of advice Jacko, C-Kwik is like 99% right about anything he says about anything technical.

[zozoka1212]

Good reading here.

zozo

[telcoman]

Good reading here.

zozo

Yup zozzo

In between reading this post I fill my G with regular 87 octane and change my oil. . I never smelled my clutch burning.BTW it dropped again to $2.67 gal

Telcoman

[W661335PF]

Given the ongoing debate here, the biggest factor for saving on fuel costs may be to simply move. Here are May 2006 global gas prices per gallon (keep in mind that prices fluctuate significantly from month to month in some places).

Caracas Apr-06 $0.12Kuwait Apr-06 $0.78Riyadh Apr-06 $0.91Buenos Aires May-06 $2.21Mexico City May-06 $2.25Beijing May-06 $2.40Johannesburg May-06 $3.70Sydney May-06 $3.76Mumbai May-06 $4.13Brasilia Apr-06 $4.60Tokyo May-06 $4.93Frankfurt May-06 $6.10Rome May-06 $6.15Brussels May-06 $6.33London May-06 $6.36Hong Kong May-06 $6.54Oslo May-06 $6.99

By the way WELCOME TO NICO DAVGREG.

Modified by W661335PF at 7:52 AM 2/9/2008

Modified by W661335PF at 8:14 AM 2/9/2008
Modified by W661335PF at 9:08 AM 2/9/2008

[rn79870]

Interesting post W661335PF

That got me wondering why the major differences for non petrolium producing countries. It has to be taxes right? Not really.

Federal, State, and local taxes are a large component of the retail price of gasoline. Taxes (not including county and local taxes) account for approximately 19 percent of the cost of a gallon of gasoline. Within this national average, Federal excise taxes are 18.4 cents per gallon and State excise taxes average about 21 cents per gallon.2 Also, eleven States levy additional State sales and other taxes, some of which are applied to the Federal and State excise taxes. Additional local county and city taxes can have a significant impact on the price of gasoline. Refining costs and profits comprise about 19 percent of the retail price of gasoline. This component varies from region to region due to the different formulations required in different parts of the country.

This from http://www.eia.doe.gov/bookshe....html

Those figures are old, and they don't include the 7.5 - 8.0% sales tax Calif charges for gas sales. (charging us a sales tax on the fed tax we're paying, imagine that - a tax on a tax.) Adding 19% to 8%, for a total of 27%. That's about 81 cents a gallon in tax @$3.00/gallon. Any wonder the government doesn't seem to care when gas prices soar.

[W661335PF]

Interesting post W661335PF

That got me wondering why the major differences for non petrolium producing countries. It has to be taxes right? Not really.

Federal, State, and local taxes are a large component of the retail price of gasoline. Taxes (not including county and local taxes) account for approximately 19 percent of the cost of a gallon of gasoline. Within this national average, Federal excise taxes are 18.4 cents per gallon and State excise taxes average about 21 cents per gallon.2 Also, eleven States levy additional State sales and other taxes, some of which are applied to the Federal and State excise taxes. Additional local county and city taxes can have a significant impact on the price of gasoline. Refining costs and profits comprise about 19 percent of the retail price of gasoline. This component varies from region to region due to the different formulations required in different parts of the country.

This from http://www.eia.doe.gov/bookshe....html

Those figures are old, and they don't include the 7.5 - 8.0% sales tax Calif charges for gas sales. (charging us a sales tax on the fed tax we're paying, imagine that - a tax on a tax.) Adding 19% to 8%, for a total of 27%. That's about 81 cents a gallon in tax @$3.00/gallon. Any wonder the government doesn't seem to care when gas prices soar.

These prices are from May 2006--- costs are higher now. The main factor in price disparities between countries is government policy. Many European nations tax gasoline heavily, with taxes making up as much as 75 percent of the cost of a gallon of gasoline (keep in mind that some of these countries also have universal health care, so higher taxes often do benefit all citizens). Also, these higher prices, if maintained over a period of several years, force citizens to buy more fuel efficient cars (note that in most countries, peoples egos are not directly linked to their cars as it seems in the U.S, based on my read of many posts here-- no disrespect is intended to the Americans), which in the end, lower emissions and have a less damaging effect on the environment.

In a few Latin America and Middle-East nations, such as Venezuela and Saudi Arabia, oil is produced by a government-owned company and local gasoline prices are kept low as a benefit to the nation's citizens.

[telcoman]

Given the ongoing debate here, the biggest factor for saving on fuel costs may be to simply move. Here are Amy 2006 global gas prices per gallon (keep in mind that prices fluctuate significantly from month to month in some places).

Caracas Apr-06 $0.12Kuwait Apr-06 $0.78Riyadh Apr-06 $0.91Buenos Aires May-06 $2.21Mexico City May-06 $2.25Beijing May-06 $2.40Johannesburg May-06 $3.70Sydney May-06 $3.76Mumbai May-06 $4.13Brasilia Apr-06 $4.60Tokyo May-06 $4.93Frankfurt May-06 $6.10Rome May-06 $6.15Brussels May-06 $6.33London May-06 $6.36Hong Kong May-06 $6.54Oslo May-06 $6.99

By the way WELCOME TO NICO DAVGREG.

Modified by W661335PF at 7:52 AM 2/9/2008

Modified by W661335PF at 8:14 AM 2/9/2008

Good post w661225PF

Oh yes DAVGREG, I almost forgot all about the original poster. How are you? You sure got something started here.

We as Americans will eventually see gasoline prices matching those in Europe. We have had a misguided and faulty energy policy here in the United States while the rest of the world just laughs at us. Having an unqualified inept so called oil man in the white house for the past almost eight years hasn't helped. Giving tax breaks to automobile companys that exempt vehicles over 6000 lbs GW from CAFE requirements has allowed foreign manaufactures to slowly destroy the American Automobile industry with the resulting loss of thousands of well paying jobs by producing more fuel efficient vehicles. Chrysler is about to under.The world oil demand and the world oil produced and refined are closely balanced. Just the news on Friday of colder weather coming to the northeast tomorrow and early next week sent oil prices up over $3 per barrel and sent the RBOC prices higher as well on Friday's close.Another hurricane Katrina, or any other disruption in supply will send oil prices soaring. Soaring demand in China and India will also cause prices to continually rise. For those that have an oppurtunity why not pay a visit to Amsterdam? Your in for a rude awakening when you see how the other half lives. Excellent public transportation, small fuel efficient cars, and bicycles to go short distances. Not nearly as wasteful as we are.

Telcoman

[zozoka1212]

Translated: Post more future Mustang pictures please...

Okay, zozo, for you no problem...

W661335PF

Good info about the prices

Europe is one of the worst one.

Telcobro,

You are right about public transportation. The gas price made Europe one of the best place for public transportation. Also people ride bikes a lot too.

We should put this in the sticky. There is lots of good info.

If a newbee have a question about run it on lower octane all he has to do is read 500+ posts

zozo

[Jacko3]

C-Kwik:

Wow! In the stable of Nissans, and in the entirety of your mechanical knowledge, you can't figure out which one is little, given that I had said I have over 200,000 miles? Let me help your infallible knowledge---It is not a Nissan Versa. Does that help? I can't imagine anyone not knowing which Nissan is the little one. I guess you would be confused if I also said, my little Toyota.

Your speculations about poor driving are totally wrong. You know what I have come to discover, you use your not-so compelling technical knowledge to try to demean people. But you failed on that account! A clutch will smell while driving for no reason. It does not even have to be during shifting or poor shuifting. Please give me a break. Have you ever seen a car catch fire because the clutch just suddenly over heated? Well, I have---twice. I am solidly sure you haven't. So, stop saying things you have no idea about. You are theorist and not a pragmatist. Even the manufactuerers of the cars we drive, who have certified engineers, don't fully understand why the G-35 behaves a certain way in some instances. It takes them time to figure it before sending out a TSB. How much more you, who probably don't work for an auto manufacturer. You think your "howstuffworks" knowledge is real knowledge about cars? Give me a freaking break!

C-KWIK, OMG you dare to question my physics and chemistry? Are you really serious?

C-KWIK LET ME TUTOR YOU A BIT ABOUT AIR. SO LONG AS A VACUUM DOES NOT EXIST, AIR WILL FILL ANY SPACE IT COMES IN CONTACT , EVEN IN MILLIMETERS. AND WHEN AIR FILLS ANY SPACE, ESPECIALLY ONE WHERE THERE IS HEAT, IT WILL TRANSFER THAT HEAT in/OUT BY CONVECTION. THERE ARE GENERALLY 3 METHODS OF HEAT TRANSFER---CONDUCTION, CONVECTION, AND RADIATION. I HOPE YOU ARE STILL READING BECAUSE YOU REALLY NEED A STRONG DOSE OF PHYSICS AND CHEMISTRY. STOP SAYING THINGS THAT YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT.

WHAT IS THE DENsITY OF AIR, SINCE YOU THINK YOUR CHEMISTRY IS SOUND, and in what measurements is that density? AIR IS NOT MADE UP OF A FEW MOLECULES. IT IS MADE UP OF A COMBINATION OF MOLECULES FROM OXYGEN, NITROGEN, HYDROGEN, AND INERT GASES. THERE IS NO CHEMICAL EQUATION FOR AIR, SO HOW COULD YOU SUGEST THAT IT HAS A FEW MOLECULES---WRONG CHEMISTRY?

Christ, some on this blog who have no idea about physics and chemistry, would sheepishly beleive your comments, when in fact, they are developed from pseudoscience. As you can see, from other topics, I am not only sound in business concepts. I am also sound in my sciences. Make sure you say no more about the physical sciences, because I will be there to correct you big time. Stick to cars adn their mechanism, and stop trying to tell us the little science you picked up from Wikipedia.

And then you speak about racing brakes and venting. Well, the reason why the pumps are used is to increase air flow so that a more efficient heat trasfer from convection is achieved. In the absence of efficient heat transfer, one is left to use increased time, as in the case of my clutch, by seperating the clutch from the flywheel for a period of time, until some type of colling has occured, albeit inefficiently.

I could also care less if you want to brag about your mechanical skills as you do here all the time. The rest of what you have said is total nonsense. You seem to lack some type of humility in your commentary. Anyway, who cares. All I am saying here is that you should stop speaking about your pseudoscience. I doubt you are that great with mechanical stuff, anyway. I think you are just a theorist at heart. I haven't heard you speak about how to move a wrench on a car just yet.

I will be reading very closely for your wrong pseudoscience. You just stepped into my turf as far as sciences are concerned. There are very fuew areas in the sciences I am not aware of. One of those areas is combustion, where very few in the sciences actually focus. So, stick to combustion and nothing more. The last time you discussed octane ratings, I said very little becasue that is the area where my science is limited,

Other than that, you will be making a great mistake to speak of any other area of the sciences in a casual manner. I will be here waiting to read another wrong science explanation from you. If oyu are that smart, make sure your knowledge base extends to other disciplines.

yOU ARE REALLY INCREDIBLE IN YOUR EXPLANATIONS. hOW CAN ANYONE WHO IS GOOD WITH THE SCIENCES CONCLUDE THAT WHEN TWO SOLID PIECES, A CLUTCH AND FLYWHEEL, COME INTO CONTACT, THAT THE FRICTION BETWEEN THE TWO WILL NOT GENERATE HEAT? THIS IS BAFFLING? I MEAN IN CHEMISTRY, WE SAY THAT AN EXOTHERMIC REACTION WIL OCCUR, AND IN PHYSICS WE SAY THAT KINETIC ENERGY DEVELOPED BY MOVING PARTS, WITH THE ASSISTANCE OF INERTIA, WILL GENERATE HEAT.

I REALLY HAVE TO ASK, WHAT SCIENCE BOOKS DO YOU READ? PLEASE TELL US. I AM EXPECTING YOUR LONG AND PROBABLY UNREWARDING RESPONSE, AS ALWAYS.

[Jacko3]

Air = 78% Nitrogen + 12 - 16 % Oxygen + inert gases (the rest). The volumess in which these chemicals are mixed, creates air. Again, this mixture is not an exact chemical reaction. It is more like mixing volumes of constants. It is different from say, Sodium (Na) reacting with Chlorine (Cl) to create a product called NaCl (common salt). This latter chemical reaction is more exact than that of air.

Read up C-Kwik. You will need it.

[!979TransAm]

Ckwik wasn't saying air won't cool things he was questioning the real effect of such a small amount of air. I believe the clutch merely cools because it is disengaged. for what reason it would be slipping and heating at high speeds i don't know, improperly adjusted perhaps.

"yOU ARE REALLY INCREDIBLE IN YOUR EXPLANATIONS. hOW CAN ANYONE WHO IS GOOD WITH THE SCIENCES CONCLUDE THAT WHEN TWO SOLID PIECES, A CLUTCH AND FLYWHEEL, COME INTO CONTACT, THAT THE FRICTION BETWEEN THE TWO WILL NOT GENERATE HEAT? THIS IS BAFFLING? I MEAN IN CHEMISTRY, WE SAY THAT AN EXOTHERMIC REACTION WIL OCCUR, AND IN PHYSICS WE SAY THAT KINETIC ENERGY DEVELOPED BY MOVING PARTS, WITH THE ASSISTANCE OF INERTIA, WILL GENERATE HEAT."

They don't generate heat when stationary against each other, now if they were slipping against each other they would cause excess heat due to friction.

Don't think I am saying any of this to stand up for anyone, I'm just saying it because your wrong and I wouldn't feel right not telling people

[telcoman]

Hey guys

I'm disappointed to find the thread closed. The discussion originally centered around using lower 87 octane vs premium that is recommended in the Infinit's owners manual. New members as well as others ask this question frequently and I as well as many others responded. We all bought our G's for many reasons. There are those that race and enjoy modifying engines so every HP counts and money is no object. Others just like the comfort, handling, performance, options, etc and wonder if they can safely cut the operating cost? Yes and some of us are cheap & resent getting ripped of by greedy oil companys unnecessarily. But that doesn't mean we can't discuss our experiences.Unfortunately the original post got out of hand. Those posts in that thread INMHO should either be moved to the "Who gives a **** forum" or removed as not germane to the original topic.There is a lot of collective knowledge here as well as a lot of Thermodynamics, chemistry,physics, molecular science, computer science can all be applied in some fashion to automobile discussions but the original post was regarding octane. I have a great respect for those that have much more engine knowledge than I and I am continuing to learn new things here. Unfortunately some try to bull**** others with their so called superior knowledge? The moderators can & should step in and send a private email to the offenders with appropriate warnings. Just my $.02

"Can't we all get along?" Rodney King

Telcoman

[Jacko3]

It should also be added that others should learn to speak to others with some respect, even if they are trying to correct or give advice. This applies to me and everyone else. Language is both a combination of syntax and semantics, which I feel some lack on this forum simply because of ubris, short-sightedness, or over familiarity with the subject matter.

I personally will respond in kind when I perceive any commenters words appearing to be demeaning. The least of us should be respected even in their naivety and limited understanding.

A word is enough for the wise. If I am going to go down, I will do so kicking and screaming.

[rn79870]

I was very interested in 90% of that thread. I learned many things and looked in new ways at other things. I rate that thread overall as successful.

I am somewhat chagrined by the closing language. I don't appreciate being referred to, albeit collectively, as a whiner because I feel the gas mileage is sub-par. I see many posts about problems others are having with their cars, and I don't see them called a whiner, or told "You shouldn't have bought a G". I bought my G for a plethora of reasons, styling, quality, comfort and reliability to name a few. I am disappointed in the G’s MPG. Even if it is only 2 bucks a week, I’d rather have that hundred dollars/year in my pocket than some Opecker pocket.

[rn79870]

Jacko3. I enjoy your post and I enjoy following your events with your car. If I might make a suggestion it would be that you let a little more water roll off your back. It’s only a forum dude, and in the end, it “don’t make the house payment.” I’d hate to see you get pissed and leave.

[telcoman]

Jacko3. I enjoy your post and I enjoy following your events with your car. If I might make a suggestion it would be that you let a little more water roll off your back. It’s only a forum dude, and in the end, it “don’t make the house payment.” I’d hate to see you get pissed and leave.

me too

[Jacko3]

rn79870:

I shall take your advice. I do enjoy your comments as well.

Yes, the G's gas mileage is really scary. However, it seems the mods does help. I am not sure between the mods and the synthetic oil and the break in of the revised engine, which one is actually contributing to the improved gas mileage. I don't have exact mpg numbers, but I find myself going to the gas station much less than at other times, before the mod and before the synthetic oil.

The only time I see a real and immediate decrease in gas is when I stomp on the gas pedal. I mean, the gas needle literally moves. So, I feel more in control of my gas useage than at anytime.

Mind you, I have a revised VQ engine, and that could aslo be a factor. There is so much about the G to be discovered. For example, I can't understand why the stick shift feels better at high revs and intense driving than during normal driving and shifting? I find this mysterious! The G-35 Coupe is a mysterious car in some ways, and so I have to think slightly differently when I drive it compared to my other stick shift car.

I also find that my car which has a rear active steer, has made my use of the VDC almost useless. I always drive with the VDC OFF. I can't remember when I last drove with the VDC ON. I guess driving with the VDC ON in the rain would make sense. But then, I don't drive my car in the rain. I can barely move without wheel spin when it rains heavily. So, I drive my little Nissan in the rain--no wheel spin whatsoever but at the sacrifice of horsepower.

If I could put some real horpower in the Nissan, I probably would drive the G-35 Coupe less.

[Jacko3]

Telcoman:

I enjoy your posts as well and your maturity in handling situations. Sometimes I can be a hot head. One thing you will notice about me is that I am the first to criticize myself. But, I have learnt a lot from you, though.

[telcoman]

Telcoman:

. Sometimes I can be a hot head. . But, I have learnt a lot from you, though.

We all learn from each other. We all need to stay calm. We are driving a high tech machine that can become deadly in a split second.You also happen to live in a state where people driving carry guns and INMHO drive recklessly particularly on I95. Enjoy your vehicle but don't think you have to prove anything to anyone. Us old farhts need you and the rest of the younger generation to keep paying our social security and we don't want anything to happen to you.My retirement is depending upon you.

Telcoman

[W661335PF]

To be honest, I was one of several guys recommending closing of the post. Jacko3, I was becoming frustrated with your pattern of responses to others on several threads (and I say with with respect and not to antagonize you) and and how others were subsequently reacting to you and each other. The language was becoming unnecessarily confrontational, childish, immature and detracting to the forum as a whole.

Here's to mature and even excellent debate, and the sharing of knowledge-- minus the condescension!!!!!