plugs Starting Issue<reinstalling timing chain>

[Lokim]

Check your timing marks before, during , and especially after chain installation. Make marks on the crank pulley and block that line up, as well as the cam pulleys and heads. Turn the crankshaft two full revolutions and make sure all the marks you made realign PERFECTLY! Then do it again. And then once more. Remember about chain tension - NO SLACK ON THE NON-TENSIONER SIDE!!! If you have slack on the side w/o the tensioner, the cam or crank pulleys will be pulled toward the tensioned side as soon as you apply pressure, throwing the timing off.

[mikes94q]

what about the drivers side, since you don't have the tensioner on it until the cover is installed. I'm doing it right now so I'm in and out of the house. I've got the chains installed but I'm afraid to turn the crank without the tensioner on the drivers side

[Lokim]

Just make sure that there is no slack in the chain on the right. Start installation at the crank pulley and stretch the chain tight over the outside cam pulley and then the inside pulley. that should give you a tight chain on the outside and lots of slack on the inside (tensioner side.) Install the cover and tensioners and then turn the motor over two revolutions w/ a ratchet and make sure all your marks re-align. (Make a mark on the crankshaft and the timing cover.) DO NOT turn the motor over w/o tensioner installed! Sorry I wasn't clear in my earlier post.

[mikes94q]

Thanks. I think that may have been my problem from last time. I know the timing chains would line up last time I installed them and turned the crank. I'm cleaning up the parts now to install.


****ok so installed the cover and tensioner. Turned the crank and both chains after several revolutions do not line back up with the timing marks Am I doing something wrong.

[Lokim]

The chains themselves won't line up, it is the sprockets you're worried about. Take the cover and tensioners off and re-time the cams. Make a timing mark on each cam sprocket and a corresponding one for each sprocket on the timing cover or head so they line up vertically. Alternatively, you can make a mark at 90 deg. on the left sprocket and 270 deg. on the right sprocket (per head) so the marks correspond w/ each other horizontally. Make a mark on the crank pulley to denote TDC. After re-timing the cams and installing the cover and tensioners, rotate the crank twice (the cams move 1/2 rev for every 1 crank rev) and ensure the marks ON THE SPROCKETS, not the chains, line up. When turning the crank, always turn it in multiples of 2 to ensure your timing is correct and verifiable.

[Lokim]

You get it figured out?

[mikes94q]

Yeah I think so, I misread your first post about lining up the timing. But not after a bit of a scare. I'm trying to get everything back together this weekend just have been real busy and unmotivated to work on it this last week. I do really appreciate the help and will post back as soon as I get a bit more done. Hopefully it will start and this is my issue. Otherwise I'll have to pull the motor and start over.

[Infinitiguy19]

Damn glad to hear you didn't give up.

[Lokim]

Damn glad to hear you didn't give up.

Ditto!

[Lokim]

Sorry if I'm being overzealous, but I'm excited to know the results of your labor! You get it put together yet?

[mikes94q]

Ok so got some time today and put it back together. To no avail. She still won't fire up. Timing is wright, compression seems to be there, has spark, has fuel.

**I did notice it is cranking over easier now, so not sure if there was a timing issue.

***I did also notice a few times while trying to start it a pop noise come out of the exhaust. It only happened a few times. The car had sat for nearly 6 years so not sure if maybe something is clogging the exhaust or if it would cause it not to start.

[Lokim]

If you have clogged cats that could definitely cause a no-start (think potato-in-the-tailpipe...) Try partially unbolting the exhaust at the flange and see if it fires off then. I'd be willing to bet it's something really stupid. It always is. Is there power to the ignition system? Are all the sensor references ~5V? Have you checked for sensor signal at both the sensor AND the corresponding ECU pin for the crank, cam, MAF, TPS, etc.? Maybe a wire was inadvertently squished or cut. Have you verified good power and ground (including voltage drop) at the ECU? Have you checked the ignition relay???

[mikes94q]

Im taking a quick break then I'm going to go try the exhaust. I have not checked all the sensor references. I do have good power and grounding. The spark plugs fire away like crazy. Is starter spray good or bad for these cars? Maybe it just needs that first push.

[Lokim]

Have you ohmed all the injectors?

[mikes94q]

I did check the injectors prior to reinstalling them, they were all around 12. I removed the exhaust and still no luck. worried all this attempted starting is going to burn my starter out.

This might be stupid but how does the anti theft system work? Does it have a chip on the key? If the system is activated what does the car do? I only ask because with Toyota when we would cut a key if it wasn't programmed the car would just turn over but not start.

[Lokim]

The Q uses a starter-interrupt feature if I'm not mistaken. It disables the starter relay via the BCM if it is activated. If the security light is on while cranking, that is an avenue to explore... Where are you located, BTW?

[mikes94q]

Im in Abq New Mexico. I was just wondering because it is a metal key with a hole in it like the old gm chip keys but there is no chip. I just noticed that.

[Lokim]

The hole performs the function of the chip in the GM keys. BTW, the "chip" is actually a resistor. If the resistance doesn't meet the value the ECM expects, the fuel injector pulse is shut off.

[mikes94q]

So that could be an issue. there is no chip. But I my spark plugs are still soaked in gas after trying to start it. So not sure. How can I get around this issue. Is there away to disable that feature?

[Q451990]

There is no electronic feature on the 90-96 Q's key, so if it's turning over the anti-theft system isn't your problem. The anti-theft system just disables the starter and sets off an alarm...

Heath

[mikes94q]

further narrowing down my search. Timing check, spark check, gas check. I have to go take the time to try out all the different electronics and see what the hell is wrong. If I wasn't so cheep I would take it to a better tech than my house.

[Lokim]

Have an assistant crank the motor and use a timing light (connect a plug wire between the coil and plug and use a bit of tape to hold it) to see whether the spark is timed correctly to the TDC mark on the crank. If you are getting spark and fuel, either the spark or the fuel pulse timing is way off (that explains the backfire, i.e. crank/cam sensor 180* out or misadjusted like a distributor) or not enough air (unlikely.) If the compression is good (over 140psi) then your valve timing is OK. Remember to hold the throttle open while performing your compression test. Check the cam sensor adjustment by loosening the adjustment bolts and turning it bit-by-bit while cranking if you can't use the timing light. I find that setting them right in the middle will usually get the car to run by getting it close to TDC.

[mikes94q]

trying to get the timing light to work with it. I have a small bit of spark plug wire from harbor freight that has a light in the middle but when cranking it sparks all around it so couldn't get the timing light to work with it. (is there an easy or other way to get the timing light to work, man I love older cars.)

On the cam sensor posibly being out by 180, should I just pull it turn the gear 180 and put it back in?

[Infinitiguy19]

The ecu expects the timing to be between 13-17 degrees BTDC MAX MAX MAX. If you moved it even a fraction as the 3/4" slot allows an up to 45 crank degree adjustment. So 4 degrees is +- 0.03"----0.033" total range of movement out of 0.75".

Setting it accurately to 15 degrees +- 0.5 is a real challenge as it moves when you tighten down the 3 screws.

Peaking the idle rpm with timing probably means you are over advanced by 10 degrees or so. No wonder ecu is pukeing.

Q45Tech

Look at the CAS top front: the position adjustment slot is roughly 3/4" long that's 45 degrees of adjustment range.

15 degrees BTDC is roughly when the left of the screw shows 2/3 and the right space is 1/3 exposed.

I can imagine a tech might get the timing wrong by 1,2,3 degrees but not enough to show your symptoms. They see the CAS all the time [when checking for corroded connectors] and they know what looks about right.

Because it is difficult to loosen the 3 screw bolts without double swivels it doesn't just get randomly adjusted because of the special ingition transformer necessary to couple a timing light to the system.

Q45Tech

throttle-position-sensor-question-t65022-40.html

[Lokim]

trying to get the timing light to work with it. I have a small bit of spark plug wire from harbor freight that has a light in the middle but when cranking it sparks all around it so couldn't get the timing light to work with it. (is there an easy or other way to get the timing light to work, man I love older cars.)

On the cam sensor posibly being out by 180, should I just pull it turn the gear 180 and put it back in?

Well, at this point, I don't think a little experimentation is gonna hurt...

[mikes94q]

can anyone tell me what I need to get so that I can hook a timing light to this? Any tricks any parts that I need to get I'll go get. I hate losing and this car has so far been beating me.

[Infinitiguy19]

Try this method: method-b-on-ef-ec-34-works-t70429.html? ... %20balance

[Lokim]

Remove the coil from the number one plug. Get an old spark plug wire (borrow one off another of your cars) and connect it to the spark plug. Take the other end and move the boot back from the connector. Slide the connector into the coil and use some electrical tape (two layers, and remember to double over the last quarter inch of the tape to make removal easy) to secure it and insulate it. Then you have a plug wire to clamp your timing light's inductive pickup to. Easy!

[mikes94q]

Ok,
Timing is set to 15 after adjusting the cas with a timing light on the extension wire from the coil.
Checked the fuel pressure just in case. Its at 45psi, and pulses while cranking.

I am getting a residual popping and burbling noises from the exhaust manifolds and the throttle body when held at wide open.

But still wont start. Just keeps cranking.

Tried another computer and relays, no difference.

I am missing some piece of this puzzle and I'm sure if I ever figure it out we can all have a good laugh.


***side note if I spray starter fluid in thru the throttle body it back fires from there with a nice little flame.**
What am I missing.

[Infinitiguy19]

Service manual says that the bad spark plugs, intake air leak (After Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor) and intake valve deposits. Can cause a back fire from the intake.

For the backfire from the exhaust check the engine coolant temperature sensor.

C'mon man this is covered in the book.