plugs Starting Issue<reinstalling timing chain>

[mikes94q]

I know this was covered but I didn't find the answer I was looking for. I have spark and fuel but the car will not start. Plugs look brand new (they had been cleaned recently) None the less they are clean. They are the bosch plat. I read somewhere that they are no good and don't work well for our cars. Is this true, and if so what plugs should I get?

[Infinitiguy19]

Wow sounds like your car was telling you "I hate these spark plugs". Bosch are no good in a Q because the electrode will fall off and scar cylinder and chamber.

Get the OEM ones from the dealer, but I doubt it will fix the problem.

Make sure that the engine is not flooded because it doesn't take much to do so. Hold the accelerator down when starting to make sure no more fuel goes in.

[3Q Jay]

PLUGS (8)- NGK# PFR-5G11

[lino]

When I replaced my plugs, I used the NGK too. I used NGK PFR-5B11 because that's the part number for 1990-1993, while the NGK PFR-5G11 the Jay suggested are for 1994-1996.

Btw What is the mileage on your car and how long have the plugs you have currently been in your car?

[Q451990]

I agree that you should replace your plugs with OEM specified NGK plugs, but I doubt that's your no-start problem. Is there a chance the car is flooded? I would try holding the gas pedal to the floor while trying to start it. Do this for at least a minute... that should get you started if it's flooding.

Heath

[mikes94q]

Ok,
New NGK plugs,
Drained and refiled gas tank (figured couldn't hurt now that its been sitting for a few months.)

Got spark, compression, and gas. But nothing else just keeps cranking.

have two ecu's get the same results, can the timing be an issue like a car with a old style distributer?

Any ideas, all it does is crank

[Infinitiguy19]

Okay lets go though this step by step:

Is the battery (12 volts or more) and starter good?

Does the Fast Idle Cam keep the throttle open just a tiny bit?

Is the AAC Valve confirmed working (Will it start with throttle open all the way)?

Is the ECCS (ECM) relay confirmed working?

Look in the service manual on how to set the timing but I am surprised no one can help you. Maybe ask the VH forum since all they do over there is work on the VH45DE (1990-1996 Q45 (G50) engine).

[mikes94q]

battery is good, starter is spinning its heart out.

Fast idle cam ( not sure ) checking now
AAC valve ( not sure ) checking now
All relays have been checked and appear to be ok.

Just by sound (crazy old school) just sounds like the timing is off. I hate to keep coming back to it as a possibility but most of the cars that I have worked on prior to this have distributers and timing it is always the issue. So this car is a huge learning curve.

[Q451990]

Did you try my suggestion?

Heath

[mikes94q]

Heath,
Yes I tried starting it while holding the gas pedal down same result. Thanks.

[Infinitiguy19]

How long did you try that for?

[mikes94q]

I have tried it for over a minute.. I have also tried removing the fuse to the fuel pump, put a bit of oil in each cylinder to get the rings back and some compression.

after all this I have removed all plugs and replaced with new although no fouling on old plugs just bad brand, drained and filled tank, drained the and varified that the fuel filter is clear. I'm going out to the garage now to check the AAC valve and the maybe the fast idle cam.
Is there an easy way to check the fast idle cam ( the fsm made it look pretty confusing with a bit of algebra in it) thanks

[Infinitiguy19]

Check out my video I made showing the componets:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wR3EXK704T0[/youtube]

I know its not the best video but bear with it.

[mikes94q]

Thanks for the vid paul. I pulled it all apart, checked the AAC valve, cleaned it and set it to 3.5 turns out. The fast idle cam is confusing me. Looking at the fsm it shows you reading it at different temps and setting the screws based on a math equation. Please tell me I'm reading that wrong or there is an easier way.

[Infinitiguy19]

All your looking to see is if the throttle body is held open just ever so slightly (Think of a Choke on older cars).

Look where I pointed out in that video and see if you see and metal on metal contact between those area's shown.

The math equation shown in the service manual is to show you how to set the Fast Idle Cam in case the adjustment screws on the Throttle Body have been touched.

A laptop consult or real Nissan Consult will help so much.

[mikes94q]

would love to have a consult... are there any that are affordable? I looked but without really knowing which ones to look at they were a bit out of the range of what I would want to spend on the car right now.

[lino]

I bought the ECUTalk and it works great and their support is even better. They sell it for $85.00 AUD = $76.12 USD (today's rate) and that price includes the shipping.

http://ecutalk.com/

[mikes94q]

so next problem, I've noticed after getting everything ready to start after trying to start it for awhile if I recheck the compression it is drastically lower... What can I do to fix this? I think when I put oil in it and get the compression back the car wont start because of the oil (maybe) then it gets washed away from the gas and the compression sucks again. Am I crazy?

[Infinitiguy19]

What are the numbers?

[mikes94q]

after splashing a bit of oil the compression is 185+ and right now I just pulled #2 and its compression is down to 95-100

[Infinitiguy19]

So the compression goes up when oil is sprayed into the cylinder through the spark plug hole...? If you I hope you know what that means.

[mikes94q]

do you think some of the rings are bad?
Because they only have 60k on them. I double checked and still right around the 100+- 10

so passenger side #2 95psi #4 60psi #6 100psi #8
divers side #3 120psi #5 120psi #7 120psi

I gave up on checking them also I think my gauge gave out on #4. some of the plugs were also fouled on the lower compression and I noticed a mixture of anti seize and oil on the plugs and the compression tester. I thing that when I put the oil in some ended up on the threads for the plugs and mixed the anti seize with it (not sure if thats a problem)

Sure do have a problem with the compression readings tho. Not sure what I should do next. Possible rings shouldn't be head gasket its Brand new. I'm not sure if I'm going to give up and crush the car or what at this point. I hate quiting and really like the look and features of the car but might just be out of the price range to repair.

[Infinitiguy19]

I am surprised no one has jumped in to help of offer any other idea's I may have missed.

But look at the timing and the compression but my bet is the compression is the problem, Sorry.

[Lokim]

Did you have the heads pressure tested and resurfaced before installation? Did you follow the head bolt tightening sequence EXACTLY? Are the valves seating properly? Are the injectors stuck open? Check the injector pulse while cranking and verify that the injectors are pulsing and not held open...

[mikes94q]

I did not have the heads pressure tested or resurfaced before reinstallation. Going to check the injectors tonight.

Question. Since trying to start the car so long with so much wrong, losing compression due to the rings being washed out what is the correct method to returning them to normal of course assuming that they are not bad just washed out by the gas. You could smell gas in the oil from the dip stick.

[Lokim]

Well, you should be getting AT LEAST 144psi on your compression gauge. That is the spec's minimum allowable compression reading. The normal spec is 186psi with no more than 14psi difference between cylinders. Most motors won't even run if compression is under around 100psi. My suspicion is that either your cam timing is incorrect, your valves are leaking, or one of your heads is cracked, warped, or otherwise not sealing correctly. You'll need a leakdown tester, air compressor, and a mechanic's stethoscope to rule it out. You'll need to pull the valve covers and set each cylinder on TDC with all 4 valves closed (cam lobes up) and leakdown test them one cylinder at a time. Very time consuming, but the only way to be absolutely sure the cams are timed correctly and the valves are sealing...

[Lokim]

Question. Since trying to start the car so long with so much wrong, losing compression due to the rings being washed out what is the correct method to returning them to normal of course assuming that they are not bad just washed out by the gas. You could smell gas in the oil from the dip stick.

Disconnect the injector harness, change the oil, and crank the motor for 30 seconds or so.

[mikes94q]

So, a buddy of mine that owns a machine shop told me that possibly during the rebuild one of the timing chains may be off by one link. Not sure but according to him could cause the drop in compression on the passenger side that I am seeing and the no start issue.

Anyways I've got the front of the motor pulled back apart(so excited) and I'm getting ready to remove the chains and reinstall them and try this all over again(like I said so excited)

What I wanted to know is has this happened to anyone else, is it possible that the chain is just simply off by one link or so

[Lokim]

Likely more than one link, but yes, that could certainly cause the problem. In my experience, If I install a timing belt one tooth off, the motor will run, but poorly. Any more than one tooth off, the motor won't start. I'd bet that if it is the chain timing, you're at least two links off. I'd LOVE to know once you find out! Good Luck!!!

[mikes94q]

Thanks, I got it apart now. taking a break, reading over the fsm to make sure I do it right. Any suggestions to ensure I dont mess it up would be great.