OFFICIAL: NICOclub Time Attack S13 Build Thread NOW WITH VIDEO

[G35Dreamer]

There is a actual street sign now that says New Orchard. At least there is a stop sign now instead of the ATV!!

[180sxfaktory]

There is a actual street sign now that says New Orchard. At least there is a stop sign now instead of the ATV!!

Yeah! Thanks for nothing! I guess I am not the only one who has mistakenly turned into the antique shop and almost running into it.

[G35Dreamer]

Wow what a weekend!!! The car is finally coming together some what. Too bad I wont be up for another month or so but hopefully by then the car will be put together.

[x240xdrifter]

Heres a few pics from th weekend, great times, I had a ton of fun

[180sxfaktory]

Did the warped rail get removed and new one welded in?

[DJButton]

We ran out of time but James got a chance to clean it up and grind down all the paint in prep for welding and the peice is ready to go in now! Next weekend the rest of the welding will get done. Sean should have some pics up of the transplant peice all cleaned up and ready!

[180sxfaktory]

Very cool! Yeah, I remember him saying that he had some stuff to do this past weekend. Anyway, keep on with the great work. 17x9.0 +15... if this a hard and fast wheel size?

[DJButton]

To me there are many sizes/options open, not sure why Sean wants the specifiacally I've forgotten a 10 in back with 9 in front would certainly be better though as long as it was light and had tolerable offsets, at least that's my opinion.

I'll shoot you an e-mail tomorrow I think Dale, looks like we should be work out what you spoke to me on the phone last week. I've been so busy lately and probably wont make it on much this week either.

[180sxfaktory]

Rule regarding wheels for time attack- bigger and deeper will make you lose time. Yes, they all look good, but if see most time attack cars and in endurance racing, most of them are running bigger positive offsets.

Copy on what we talked about earlier. You saw my post, right?

[DJButton]

Nope must have missed it, link me when you get a chance.

Well I do agree but that doesn't mean a 17x8 +47 is anything short of a good attempt at Honda wheels.

[MagikDragon]

17X9 + 15 seems to be a safe size that most teams run and the offset helps clear the coils and the brakes.

[180sxfaktory]

Yes, I know you are running Z32 brake package. I wouldn't be buying something for the car unless I knew for sure that it will fit. As for Honda wheels, positive offset should not imply Honda wheels. "I'm in it to win it", not lose but look good at it. That's like trying to explain shrinkage.

[MagikDragon]

17X8 +30 clears the coils fine, adding an extra inch (half inch closer to the coil) with the same offset brings the wheel dangerously close to the coils, so putting 15 more mm towards the outside of the car would clear up that issue nicely.

the time I will go bigger is when i need more traction...

[DJButton]

when i need more traction...

[eazye2000]

More traction? Put your boots on...

....oh wait, nevermind. (don't ask)

[180sxfaktory]

Ok!

[AceInhole]

Higher offsets allow longer control arms to be used, reducing lateral wheel scrub on suspension movement/ turning. Unless you're making good use of that, it shouldn't be a huge concern, as track width ratio and overall tire size will have a greater impact on handling at the level I assume you'll be at.

That said, 17x9 is pretty small. Most successful teams seem to start at a 275 tire, with 285/30/R18's being popular for a smaller rolling diameter. The 275/40's will fit, but be slightly taller and not truly square.

[homeslicej2]

Higher offsets allow longer control arms to be used, reducing lateral wheel scrub on suspension movement/ turning. Unless you're making good use of that, it shouldn't be a huge concern, as track width ratio and overall tire size will have a greater impact on handling at the level I assume you'll be at.

That said, 17x9 is pretty small. Most successful teams seem to start at a 275 tire, with 285/30/R18's being popular for a smaller rolling diameter. The 275/40's will fit, but be slightly taller and not truly square.

...uhhh...yes, what he said....oh look! A man in a Samuel Adams box! mmm...Sam Adams my favorite.

[MagikDragon]

PJ, I'm glad to see your perspective in this, we will be using stock control arms this year, and the wheel sizes are the same sizes Jeff from CIP is running on his Time Attack S14, at least thats what he told me.

I am going to have o pick your brain about this a bit more, Expect an email from me by the end of the day...

[180sxfaktory]

Each track will put different demands on the car, for each track will differ a bit from each other. Just know in advance which compounds seem to be the best fit for each. Tire size and suspension dial in becomes so very critical as the car advances.

[AceInhole]

PJ, I'm glad to see your perspective in this, we will be using stock control arms this year, and the wheel sizes are the same sizes Jeff from CIP is running on his Time Attack S14, at least thats what he told me.

I am going to have o pick your brain about this a bit more, Expect an email from me by the end of the day...

I believe Jeff was limited by the brand of tires he was running (either due to sponsors or rules imposed by the sanctioning body of whatever series). 275/40/R17 seems to be the "best fit" for a 17" tire. I ran them myself a few years ago (with 315/35/R17's in back) and had problems with the front frame rails limiting suspension travel with such a large diameter tire. I'm pretty sure Brady's S14 (Full Race's old time attack car) and the AMS Evo run 285's, although I forsee cars stepping up to the 315 and up range soon.

Quote »Each track will put different demands on the car, for each track will differ a bit from each other. Just know in advance which compounds seem to be the best fit for each. Tire size and suspension dial in becomes so very critical as the car advances.[/quote]You won't be changing tire compounds much beyond having rains and "semi-slicks". Time attack venues all seem to limit tires to DOT legal. If you had bias-ply tires it'd be a different story. As far as critical suspension dial in, small tweaks from track to track may not help as much as having a consistent setup that you(r driver) can manage. Untill you've got some decent datalogging, you won't have an objective viewpoint of what really works, compared to what simply "feels" good. Also, I'd look into better shocks before going too much deeper into suspension upgrades. You'll probably get more out of better damping than adjustable LCAs. I'd expect to run a decently stiff spring once you get some aero on there, and I haven't heard of any JDM/ off-the-shelf coilovers handling anything more than a 12kg spring. Expect to run a 14kg spring up front, and more with addition of aero, which will then screw with your static settings even more :P.

Speaking of suspension, I noticed the aluminum spindles in back. No poly bushings?

[nismofly]

s14's have far more room for wheels up front than s13's do

a 275 up front on an s13 is a big deal, takes quite a bit of work, and anything wider than 9.5 inches wheel wise needs custom offsets, etc etc

s14's have it easy when it comes to the wheel/tire package

[MagikDragon]

That was alot of Information to digest...

PJ, I hope you can make the Swap meet in 2 weeks in NH, I'd love to hear some of your thoughts and experiences..

Chris, we might run some 275 for the first year or so, we won't be competetive until we get some seat time in and see how everything is working out for us...

[DJButton]

Most of the variables that mandate wheel size can be adjusted as time goes as well. The wheel wells/fenders and suspension can be as modified as need be to work best. It's more of just bolting it together and getting it right for next time right now, get it workable and decent for now, get some seat time and experience and determine what we want adjusted for later.

[nwmrkt]

the stich welding is all over correct? Even the underbody?

[nismofly]

i still say 245/45 front 275/40 rear to start, simply because fitting that will be a piece of cake

the next project would be fitting the 275 front, which is a fun time on the 13

[180sxfaktory]

That's why we have day before practice runs in order to "dial in" suspension and to see if the tires currently on the car will even help the car hook up at critical points on the course. datalogging is as simple as keeping a running diary of what was done at each track. You are right, the initial debut of the car will have nothing previously done as a benchmark. That's why we have communication and why we have pit crew.

In summary, have fun, but again, "I'm in it to win it" Dan and Sean!

[AceInhole]

That's why we have day before practice runs in order to "dial in" suspension and to see if the tires currently on the car will even help the car hook up at critical points on the course. datalogging is as simple as keeping a running diary of what was done at each track. You are right, the initial debut of the car will have nothing previously done as a benchmark. That's why we have communication and why we have pit crew.

In summary, have fun, but again, "I'm in it to win it" Dan and Sean!

I meant datalogging in terms of a Trakmate, DL1, or MaxQ setup or better. Something with a GPS/ Accelerometer that will allow you to objectively see where you can gain time. Otherwise, you're trusting the driver to be consistent enough to allow changes to the car to be noticeable in laptimes, as well as avoiding the "feels better in the corners" because you end up slightly slower going into and out of them.

For the most part, it breaks down to knowing the surface and condition of the pavement, rather than specifying track to track. I can pretty much guarantee you won't see as much variation from track to track as you will from different autocross (like Toledo, which has a directional grain to the concrete. Tons of traction in one direction, not so much in the other).

One other thing: Hoosier makes the A6 compound in a 275/35/R15 size. I'm not sure if the R6 is available in that size, though, but I know DJ McArdle from NY runs that on his CA powered S13. It might be worth looking into, especially if you never go beyond z32 brakes.

[x240xdrifter]

I think a data acquisition would be a nice tool to have for the track car, Grassroots Motorsports did a feature on one that was dirt cheap and it got great reviews, maybe its something to look into?

[the converted]

I was thinking we would run an LMA3 or DL-32 from innovate. We already have a LC-1 wideband and the multi link would make life nice and easy.