No Replacement for Displacement

[TrueSlide]

Ok fools, all this technology and displacement talking is getting quite dull. There is NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT.

Dont believe me?? Look how much must be done to a 4 banger to run the same times as a v8? Look at Top Fuel cars, all v8s, u see a 4 banger? NO!

Displacement 0wnz j00!!Power to weight ratio?!?! Ok, take a light car and put a BIG motor in, there problem solved.

[89240sx]

Ok fools, all this technology and displacement talking is getting quite dull. There is NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT.

Dont believe me?? Look how much must be done to a 4 banger to run the same times as a v8? Look at Top Fuel cars, all v8s, u see a 4 banger? NO!

Displacement 0wnz j00!!Power to weight ratio?!?! Ok, take a light car and put a big motor in, there problem solved.

You should have bolded the word BIG

[tl1000sga]

sorry, i'd have to agree with J-spec on this one. F1 cars are limited in their displacement, yet have HP numbers the same or larger than the corvette.

NOW, here is where i disagree with jspec

What would happen if that CR5 corvette, got the F1 car treatment? Specialy coated pistons& cyl walls, Redline well above 10k. All that extra time that must go into port matching and polishing.

Technology can makeup for a gap in displacement, but if the same technology is applied to a motor of larger displacement...

The C5R (not CR5) and F1 have a lot of differences, so it is a waste of time to compare them. An F1 car is light and is set up complete different, but if you compare HP figures they aren't that different. Everyone is missing the point, the only reason I used the C5R is because the Lemans GTS class is the only class of racing I know of that puts very comparable cars against each other but doesn't restrict the size of the engine. High RPM's are used to make up for a lack of torque.

[tl1000sga]

but my whole point is that technology can replace displacement and will continue to do so. Using displacement to make power in cars is a dying trend.

A dying trend? Even in japan all of the real sports cars have larger displacement engines. Granted, they're not to the same degree as a domestic V8, but they are bigger. Supras, Skylines, NSX's, Whatever. And they totally out class the other cars.:icon18

[Cyberkreig]

I understand why you used the CR5 as an example. It is not a waste of time to compair them. We are talking about making power.. This power to weight BS is a total tangent. Put A CR5 on a dyno, but an F1 car on a dyno. Those numbers compaired to displacement are what 'no replacement for displacement' is about.

[Onizuka]

Ok fools, all this technology and displacement talking is getting quite dull. There is NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT.

Dont believe me?? Look how much must be done to a 4 banger to run the same times as a v8? Look at Top Fuel cars, all v8s, u see a 4 banger? NO!

yes and top fuel drag cars are the most versitile vehicles you could have used as an exapmle :rolleyes

[tl1000sga]

there is alot of discrepensy as to what is the right way to measure the displacement of a rotory. Displacement is a function of the amount of air that goes through a motor per cycle, and depending on how you define that cycle you get either 1.3 or 2.6 liters. But officially (as determined by mazda and accepted by the government) its 1.3 liters.

Yeah, I know that it's a real touchy subject. And I don't know much about rotaries, so I can't even argue my opinion. :crazy

[Onizuka]

Im not trying to be a d***, i like V8 cars but they arent the end all to be all performers. The only large displacement V8 cars that fill a wide spectrum of performance catagories are the Corvette and dodge viper.

[TrueSlide]

yes and top fuel drag cars are the most versitile vehicles you could have used as an exapmle :rolleyes

First thing that popped in my head, but am I wrong, no?!

Hey buddy, we are discussing DISPLACEMENT not versitity.

ok!!! 240sx(w/ ya little SR) vs. Corvette

Stock for stock? The vette ownz j00, displacement owns, the end.

[89240sx]

Im not trying to be a d***, i like V8 cars but they arent the end all to be all performers. The only large displacement V8 cars that fill a wide spectrum of performance catagories are the Corvette and dodge viper.

:rolleyes

[Onizuka]

take a Vette vs a lotus elise, LIGHT WEIGHT SMALL DISPLACEMENT OWNS JOO

[Onizuka]

:rolleyes

there are definatly others but they are rather expenxive (as if $50K+ isnt expensive enought)

[89240sx]

yes because of light weight dumb***!! take the same two engines in the same weight cars and displacement owns you!!!

[Onizuka]

yes because of light weight dumb***!! take the same two engines in the same weight cars and displacement owns you!!!

stick a V8 in a lotus elise, that would destroy all of the performance characteristics of the car all the while giving it horrible gas milage. The anser to everything isnt "stick a big motor in it"

[TrueSlide]

the answer to everything is not "Go, SR"

[tl1000sga]

I understand why you used the CR5 as an example. It is not a waste of time to compair them. We are talking about making power.. This power to weight BS is a total tangent. Put A CR5 on a dyno, but an F1 car on a dyno. Those numbers compaired to displacement are what 'no replacement for displacement' is about.

I missunderstood you. You're right about that. But..... If you're talking about making power then the C5R is not less powerful. An F1 engine mainly makes it's power from horsepower, which is just a measurement of RPM and torque. So basically the F1 engine is making up for it's lack of torque with the momentum of the engine. The C5R engine isn't doing that. It boils down to what rating you're refering to, but if you're talking about power then you shoul be refering to torque. Torque is a measurement of power, horsepower is a measurement of torque AND momentum. And if you're talking about torque then the C5R out powers the F1 engine.:icon18

[Cyberkreig]

correct, torque is the rating that matters.. and a smaller displacement motor will ALWAYS be at a lack of torque, as they arent spinning as much metal.. BUT if it were not for all the TECHNOLOGY in the F1 motor, it could not even begin to compete.

In that way.. technology makes up for a lack of displacement.

[tl1000sga]

Quote ») The anser to everything isnt "stick a big motor in it" [/quote]

You're right, I am not saying that V8's rule everything. There is deffinately a time and a place for a V8, as with every other engine. I just don't think that technology is a direct replacement for displacement, I think it comes in a close second. But, then again, I wouldn't dream of putting a V8 in my S14!:hitit

[tl1000sga]

correct, torque is the rating that matters.. and a smaller displacement motor will ALWAYS be at a lack of torque, as they arent spinning as much metal.. BUT if it were not for all the TECHNOLOGY in the F1 motor, it could not even begin to compete.

In that way.. technology makes up for a lack of displacement.

The "technology" for higher revving engines has been around since internal combustion engines were invented, so I don't see how that is considered "technolgy" and other things like the original GM small block V8 isn't. Where do you draw the line?:icon18

[SmithSR]

Im not trying to be a d***, i like V8 cars but they arent the end all to be all performers. The only large displacement V8 cars that fill a wide spectrum of performance catagories are the Corvette and dodge viper.

V8 Viper

[89240sx]

lol didnt notice that

[89240sx]

gotta love those v8 vipers cause you know those were common :rolleyes

[float_6969]

This sounds like an arguement of opinions. And as we all know, opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one....

[Cyberkreig]

Port matching, polishing, shape of the combustion chamber, shape of the piston, Comp ratio, full balanced motors, variable length intake runners, teflon & other hi-temp coatings

These things have been around since the advent of the internal combustion motor?

[tl1000sga]

V8 Viper

LOL, I bet that'd be a poor excuse for an exotic :oy:

[TrueSlide]

argument of the truth, a 4 cylinder motor will never make more power then the bigger v8. No replacement for displacement!!

[C-Kwik]

This is all a moot argument anyways. Who cares how you get there. 400 HP is 400 HP. 700 HP is 700 HP. Regardless of if it's from sheer size, high RPMs, forced induction, NOS, or even Fred Flinstone's feet, if you are making a lot of power, you are making a lot of power. Even if someone only goes and drops $45,000+ on some C5 or $70,000+ on a Viper, it will still smoke a lesser car. I'm certainly not impressed by large displacement motors that put out such low HP to displacement ratios, but they can still move a car very fast. You can't dispute getting your *** handed to you.

So is there replacement for displacement? Sure. It comes in many forms. All I care about is the HP. You want to compare a 400 HP turbo 240 to a 400 HP NA C5? Should be fun to watch what happens. And certainly, putting turbos on a C5 would give a very nice kick(Lingenfelter pumped out 725 HP out of their most powerful kit), but they are now replacing perhaps a 12.0L motor with 2 turbos.

As far as F1 cars, it's apples and oranges comparing it to a production based race car. 1st off they make tons of power because of their ability to rev very high. 18,000-20,000 RPM last time I heard. As far as all other aspects, consider F1 cars put so much downforce that theoretically, they can drive upside down provided there is enough traction to keep the car moving forward at that speed. You put that kind of force on the tires and the car will be all but glued to the road and can corner and brake faster than any production based race car. At the same time, I'm not sure that sustaining such high RPM's for 24 hours would keep the motor in one piece.

As far as the Rotary's 2.6L, yes, that seems to be the case given SCC's analysis of it in comparison to a conventional 4-stroke motor. However, once must consider that the newest version makes 250 HP with the same 2.6L with no turbo. Still behind the S2000 in displacement to HP if using the 2.6 figure, but respectable nonetheless. But 250 HP is still 10 more HP than 240 no matter which way you slice it. This pretty much works for all comparisons. Who cares about how you get there. Just get there.

[89240sx]

face it you are pwn3d

[tl1000sga]

Port matching, polishing, shape of the combustion chamber, shape of the piston, Comp ratio, full balanced motors, variable length intake runners, teflon & other hi-temp coatings

These things have been around since the advent of the internal combustion motor?

No, not variable length runners, teflon & other high temp coatings, but the latter is for reliability. Do you think the runners alone can make up for the power? :icon18

[float_6969]

C-Kwik, I totally agree