New Project- custom header

[TheBlaiant]

NA 2JZ. Exhaust is on the other side and you can make 200whp easy! Problem sloved.

[Ajax]

For the money I've spent, I probably could have done that...

[Ajax]

That stupid exhaust bracket had to be ordered. Normal shipping, it won't b here until Monday. Monday is when I start tech week for my next show, meaning that there's no way I'll be able to finalize the design until the following Saturday, when I'd also like to ship it in order to get it back with more than a week or two to install and get everything ready for driving again. Or I could spend an extra $20 to overnight it. Decisions decisions...

Update- found a dealership in Virginia that has a bracket- they're 2-day airing it, so hopefully Friday will have a delivery for me. Then this Easter weekend, I can try to finalize the design and have it shipping to Stainless Headers during the week. insert sigh of relief.

[Ajax]

Well, I finally gave up on the 4-1 idea. With this kit, its just not happening. If I had welding skills and equipment, I'd be interested in doing it all myself, but I simply cannot. So I've decided to build it 4-2-1 (some people think this will be better anyway- I think 4-1 would have suited my goals better, but I feel confident it will be an upgrade no matter what). Any way, some pics:
The exhaust bracket (which I now have an extra on the way, since I couldn't cancel before it left the warehouse):

So now I've got all the hangers for the BRM exhaust, except this is still not used:


So now the entire exhaust hangs on the 3 rear hangers and the one bracket- its unfortunately too much for the rubber on that bracket, and thus I need to support it for now underneath some crap- I'll be taking it to a muffler shop or something to figure out an extra hanger for support.

Also, I'll need to pick up an extra gasket and some flange bolts and nuts. The hardware supplied with the BRM was disappointing- I got only 2 bolts/nuts for the 3 sections (cat, mid, and rear section) and the bolts/nuts needed washers to truly hold. I'll be shooting a quick email to Greg to let him know.

Here's a few attempts to go 4-1:



and this is still the main problem.


So this is where I said F it, and started over

measured all these out to make math easier:


Here is the 1&4 cylinders:



2&3:



All together

At this point, the 1&4, and the 2&3 will be merged, respectively- need to find some appropriate pvc joints. Then another short run between the steering knuckle and transmission case, and merge the secondaries, then run back to the cat. Should be much easier at this point, but I've definitely been delayed. I hope Stainless Mfg will be able to turn around quickly.

[fiznowler]

Man that is alot of work for an NA Header. Props for doing something different, hope it meets all of your power goals!

[Ajax]

Thanks, I'm pretty sure I've already doubled the amount of research that OBX did.

[Razi]

Reminds me of some manifolds that are made for the 4-AGE!


Good luck man!

[Ajax]

Reminds me of some manifolds that are made for the 4-AGE!


Good luck man!

Theoretically, that's how I wanted the 4-1 design to go as well, but things are pretty tight in the bay and this kit just doesn't give you much wiggle room. Thanks.
I ordered some PVC manifold wyes yesterday which should suit my purpose. The joints at Home Depot weren't looking like they would work without modification.
This weekend will be busy, as I'll be performing in a show in the evenings and trying to finish this up morning to afternoon. Why do I always procrastinate like this?..

[95zenki man]

It looks like to me your just making more bends and making it harder for the exhaust gases to get out creating more back pressure?

I don't know a lot about making headers and what not, but isn't the point to have it so the gasses will flow straight out and not have to deal with a lot of bends and crap making it more restrictive? I understand what your doing ( i think ) ..It just looks to me like your making the motor work harder to get all that crap out then it would if you just put a obx or something on there.

[corn322]

What pipe length were you shooting for on the 4-1 design?

[Gabes13]

Damnit this is a cool thread!

[Ajax]

It looks like to me your just making more bends and making it harder for the exhaust gases to get out creating more back pressure?

I don't know a lot about making headers and what not, but isn't the point to have it so the gasses will flow straight out and not have to deal with a lot of bends and crap making it more restrictive? I understand what your doing ( i think ) ..It just looks to me like your making the motor work harder to get all that crap out then it would if you just put a obx or something on there.

The bends will all be mandrel bent, so it shouldn't make too much difference. By using these bends (and trust me, I'm trying to use as few as possible), I'm trying to equalize and optimize the lengths of each tube so that the reversion pulses won't cause interference with the initial exhaust gas wave. By doing that, the theory is you can assist in scavenging the cylinders and thus create better flow.

I just received these from a specialty pipe supplier:

(pardon my dirty countertop- I haven't been home much lately)

I had never seen PVC tubing joints like this, especially not at any local hardware store. These should make a 4-2-1 simpler to put together keeping good angles on the collectors.

What pipe length were you shooting for on the 4-1 design?

I was trying to get 30" total on each pipe- incredibly difficult with this kit. If I had begun this in November, like I should have, I may have been able to squeeze things together after getting more adjustable elbows; but I'm running out of time and patience.

[LoserCard]

Go semi-truck status and have stacks out of your hood! =)

[Ajax]

Well, I’ve finally gotten the most difficult part done- I still need to put it back in the car to test, but I think I’ve solved the primaries puzzle. How to fit 20” from each exhaust port to their respective 2-1 collector?

Wow that’s difficult to follow; let’s break it down:
1&4 by themselves:




And 2&3 by themselves:




All together again:



Note that the 2 collectors miraculously are close to each other. I don’t know how I got all these dimensions to work out, but they did. So now I need to mock one bend in each secondary to immediately be joined by another collector, then run 1 single pipe back to the catalytic converter, which should theoretically be easy, by comparison.
Now, by choosing 4-2-1, I’m going to pay a bit more due to the extra collectors, and I may see if I can pay a bit extra to have them rush the build, since I’d like to have it running by June 10th so I can do whatever last minute fixes are needed before traveling to AMS. In theory, a 4-1 would have given me slightly better top end, but I think since I’ve got good length as well as equal lengths, I should be good.

[ashibah83]

i heart this thread......

[Ajax]

Well, test fit did not go well. The header was way too wide to slide in. So I'll need to revamp te 2-3 primaries. If that doesn't work, I'll redo the whole thing. This may run a few all-nighters.
Also, I've decided to make this a 2 piece design. I ran into all sorts of trouble installing and deinstalling the OBX header because of the long pipe. That sucks, so I'm going to make a downpipe after the final collector.
And I'm going to try to get this finalized no later than Saturday so I can get it to the builder by monday.
Lesson- procrastination sucks.

[Ajax]

So this little ridge on the pvc manifold is problematic. These pipes are all bigger than their steel counterparts will be, so I can be comfortable with a little touching here and there, but this ridge forces the piping out too far. So let's cut it out.


Mental note- Since Dremels spin clockwise as you look from the barrel toward the bit and I'm right-handed, cutting pvc with a saw bit will spit pvc bits at your face. Obviously I'm using safety-glasses, but I didn't think about using a mask...

probably doesn't help that I wax my moustache, which just holds the pvc bits in place when they might otherwise fall out.


Here's the newest design. I'm going to rework #2, but I test fit while assembling this version and I think it might work. I'm hoping to button this portion up tonight to install, then work on the downpipe.

[Razi]

Nice 'stache and mock-up!

[breadbox]

I like the idea of mating a DP to the final collector, It sucks trying to get a set of headers out sometimes.

[krash]

That thing looks monstrous!

[Ajax]

No pics right now, but I'm bored at the office, so I'l update. Redid the 1&4 last night, and started on 2&3. The main problem at this point is getting a design that fits when its on, but can be slipped on/off without "persuasion". The steering shaft and AC line (AC is at least somewhat flexible) are the main problem, as we knew before. Tonight will hopefully be the eureka moment.

Hmm. Does anyone know if someone sells shorter manifold studs? That would make things much easier. I suppose I can contact ARP and figure it out. I figure 1/4-1/2" shorter studs would make things 10x easier.

[Ajax]

Busy weekend, here’s some pics:
Some of these pvc joints were just a bit too tight. I broke 2 door pin punches and several drill bits trying to remove this aluminum sleeve. In the end I had to cut it out- 1 hour wasted.




So where did I leave off? I basically redid the entire mock-up Friday night- finished @5am.




^ notice the angle of the last collector is a bit vertical.- When I realized I wouldn’t be able to get this to the UPS store before it closed, I decided to revamp on Sunday morning- woke up at 2am, started tweaking things and achieved a much better angle.



^marking the out-flange so it all lines up^
Downpipe will be a second piece:


Hey look- that might have clearance with the actual size of the piping… fingers crossed:






^Marking the steps in pipe diameter^
During final marking and test fit, it seemed much easier to install than the OBX, especially since I didn’t need to think about the 2 ½‘ of downpipe being attached. I didn’t even bother loosening the motor mounts to jack the engine up.
And BEHOLD!




And the aftermath. Must clean this week:

[sly240]

I’ll start by saying that I know how hard all this is I have done one before. So props to you.

But it looks like I’m a little too late to say this but you should never rush these things after you spend so much time and money on them any compromises or short cuts you take in the interest of money or time will be magnified when you look back on it. I know from experience.

What rpm did you tune your header for? Is it stock cams or after market? I am asking because I have been thinking of building my turbo manifold in the future for my specific need’s and wanted to see if you calculated it the same way I did or if you used a different way. I know N/A and turbo are 2 worlds apart but it would be cool to bounce some ideas off of you.

Also have you looked into any reversion chambers and back pressure valves? And what type of coating are you going with?

I can’t wait to see some before and after dyno numbers.

But impressive build its good to see someone take the time and do it right.

P.S. I have seen a 28 WHP gain on just a tuned header and tune on a VQ35!

[Ajax]

I contracted Burns Stainless to use their X-Design program for recommendations- I don't know nearly enough about flow dynamics and the like to do all the mathwork- I just tried to figure out the shape. Burns was provided all the specs from my engine, as well as my goals, and they sent me their recommendations.
The only real compromise I made during the process was going 4-2-1 instead of 4-1, which was a fitment issue. Could I have done 4-1? maybe not with this kit.
Unfortunately, before and after dyno tests may not be directly comparable. The last tuning I did at AMS was with a different intake, and will be tuned on a stand-alone vs piggy-back- definitely too much to directly compare my header vs OBX. The dyno included in this thread was done here in MN- different dynos, different numbers. I'll probably inquire about getting one quick dyno run before installing the new ECU, but if its too expensive, forget it.

[sly240]

would still like to see the befor and after dyno charts. It is still worth some comparison but i feel the hole budget thing. still i hope it gives you some good numbers.

[Razi]

Have you taken a look at the GReddy manifold for the KA?


It bolts up to a turbo downpipe, that's why the flange location is a bit different.

[Ajax]

I was not aware they made anything for the KA. Looks pretty short- maybe 2/3 of my design's length. Someone else should definitely try it out- would only require fabbing a downpipe.

[Ajax]

Big surprise, the fabricators needed to adjust their price estimate after seeing my design... I would have been surprised if they kept it the same price with all the turns, etc in this design. But they will most likely be starting the fabrication today. I may see this by early next week.
We decided on a V-band flange for the downpipe- should give us a bit of wiggle room since the exhaust was never exactly in place. A bit more expensive, but at this point, I won't notice the extra 10-20 bucks.

[hsitko]

Way to disable your private messages there "too cool for school". We should talk. I have quite the engine built and driving that could benefit from our combined knowledge. I'm looking into the same thing that you are doing. I have contacted jack burns as well. Currently i have a dc and a pacesetter header. Pm me if you would like to discuss. Hope to hear from you.

[Ajax]

I wasn't aware my pms were off (ha, pms). I'll have to check into that.