My ridiculous project... VH45DE into 240sx!

[CrazyTrance]

you might have some bad valve seats or seals...my rb has a few bad valve seals and i'll occasionally get oil on the plugs from it if the car sits too long.

Do you know of a way to check or do a test on those to see if thats the case without tearing the engine apart? I dont. And i cant really dig too deep as i'm not at my permanent home.

[Unnatural1]

There's not really a way to check the valve seals without a visual inspection. But, with their age it would not be improbable that they're hardened and leaking. The symptom to look for is light blue smoke coming from the exhaust when started (possibly after the engine has sat for a long while)? If so that is usually a good indication.

Only problem is, valve seals won't cause a misfire (maybe if there was enough oil on start-up, but only for a brief moment). But, rings probably won't cause a misfire either. If piston rings are really badly worn or broken it's possible they could cause a misfire from compression loss or oil contamination.

One thing to try: Remove your radiator cap and make sure your radiator is full. Leave the cap off and start the engine and watch for coolant bubbling or erupting out of the radiator. If it does erupt out of the radiator, it is a sure sign of a blown head gasket (and you don't even need any tools! ).

If you already have a compression tester perform that test next. Things like bent rods, etc... will show up from a compression check. If everything tests good then move on to the leak down test. A leak down test will do a better job finding worn rings, burned or damaged valves, etc. and allow you to pin point the problem without disassembly.

At this point, you could have two different unrelated problems. Do some more testing before freaking out...and then freak out afterward!

~Brendan

[CrazyTrance]

There's not really a way to check the valve seals without a visual inspection. But, with their age it would not be improbable that they're hardened and leaking. The symptom to look for is light blue smoke coming from the exhaust when started (possibly after the engine has sat for a long while)? If so that is usually a good indication.

Only problem is, valve seals won't cause a misfire (maybe if there was enough oil on start-up, but only for a brief moment). But, rings probably won't cause a misfire either. If piston rings are really badly worn or broken it's possible they could cause a misfire from compression loss or oil contamination.

One thing to try: Remove your radiator cap and make sure your radiator is full. Leave the cap off and start the engine and watch for coolant bubbling or erupting out of the radiator. If it does erupt out of the radiator, it is a sure sign of a blown head gasket (and you don't even need any tools! ).

If you already have a compression tester perform that test next. Things like bent rods, etc... will show up from a compression check. If everything tests good then move on to the leak down test. A leak down test will do a better job finding worn rings, burned or damaged valves, etc. and allow you to pin point the problem without disassembly.

At this point, you could have two different unrelated problems. Do some more testing before freaking out...and then freak out afterward!

~Brendan

Thanks for the detailed response!

Yeah i dont ever remember seeing blue smoke coming out of the exhaust.

I will do your radiator trick soon to see if anything comes up. Although i dont seem to be losing any antifreeze. The reservoir is still nice and full. Unless there is air in the radiator now. I just recently got a radiator flush also.

And i'm working on getting both a compression tester and leak down tester soon. Havent touched the car since friday night really

[Unnatural1]

Cool...good stuff.

How long has this been going on? There are lots of possibilities. If the rings are bad you would probably notice bluish smoke from the tail pipe, even once the engine was warmed up. Just verify the engine is mechanically sound first and THEN start worrying about everything else. Let us know when you get the results!

~Brendan
Modified by Unnatural1 at 7:30 PM 11/5/2008

[CrazyTrance]

Yeah i dont really notice any smoke coming from the tailpipe... hardly any at all. But i guess i havent been behind my car when i get on it either. I know at idle it doesn't smoke out the tail pipe. And with a pretty much straight through exhaust system you should definitely see some right??

I know smoke comes from my engine but thats because the service caps on the valve covers leak oil onto my headers.

It runs horrible!! I hate it

[Unnatural1]

You definitely see smoke if the rings where worn enough to cause a misfire.

Yeah my valve covers leaked pretty badly when I first bought my Q45. I replaced them when I pulled the plenum to replace 1/2 of my injectors. Keep us posted.

[Carl H]

beyond bad valve seals can cause oil fouling...

[CrazyTrance]

Hmm, so it's probably head gasket then? I have one, and i also have some valve seals too. I've been searching google on how to diagnose oil on plugs and what not and came across this link from autozone.

http://www.autozone.com/az/cds...s.htmI realize it's for a completely different engine altogether.... the procedure should apply for any engine though.

HEAD GASKET: The compression reading is low between two adjacent cylinders. the head gasket between the two cylinders may be blown. If there is the sign of white smoke coming from the exhaust while the engine is running may indicate water leaking into the cylinder.

It seems that one might be it. Because both #2 and #4 (which are right next to each other) seem to be missing. Like i said, unhooking the connector from the injectors or the coil on these two cylinders has no effect on the idle. A leak down test will either confirm or deny that assumption. I'm hoping thats what the problem is because i could probably do that in a weekend no problem.

Edit:

#8 from that link states:

"If a cylinder is unusually low, shoot about a tablespoon of clean engine oil into the cylinder through the spark plug hole and repeat the compression test. If the compression comes up after adding the oil, it appears that the cylinder's piston rings or bore are damaged or worn. If the pressure remains low, the valves may not be seating properly (a valve job is needed), or the head gasket may be blown near that cylinder. If compression in any two adjacent cylinders is low, and if the addition of oil does not help the compression, there is leakage past the head gasket. Oil and coolant water in the combustion chamber can result from this problem. There may be evidence of water droplets on the engine dipstick when a head gasket has blown."

[Carl H]

an overheated engine can have warped heads/block...i pulled my heads before the engine went in to be cleaned and pressure checked to ensure they were good to go.

[CrazyTrance]

an overheated engine can have warped heads/block...i pulled my heads before the engine went in to be cleaned and pressure checked to ensure they were good to go.

Correct, The hottest it's gotten i believe was like 205F or 210F. I try to keep it around 180F as thats just my guestimation on what normal opperating temp should be.

[Carl H]

my engine runs 80*c constant, fan kicks on at 85*c...all from consult.

[CrazyTrance]

K. so thats like 176 Fahrenheit opperating temp. I'm close.

[Unnatural1]

My VH in my Q runs around 195*F.

A compression test may not tell you conclusively that you've got a ring problem. IMO a leak down test is your best bet for diagnosing worn rings.

You probably won't find a blown head gasket on these engines. I believe they use multi-layered shim gaskets. Those are not easy to blow out. But, a warped head will allow compression gases to escape. That first test I described above is an easy way to check for this kind of problem. BTW burning coolant shows up as white smoke.

[BallzDeep1.9L]

ive blown a head gasket before where the ONLY place it blew was directly in between two cylinders. so there was no oil leakage and no coolant leakage simply low compression on the 2 cylinders right next to each other where the issue was.. im leaning towards that as a high probability of whats wrong here, though id check all the things that people have mentioned first before removing the head, hope you get it fixed

[CrazyTrance]

So update time!

Yesterday i got to borrow a compression tester..

Compression is supposed to be 185psi. 142psi minimum.

So i tested the two cylinders i thought were effed up. (#2 and #4)

#2 tested out at 183psi!

#4 tested out at 180psi!

I'm STOKED. During the #2 cylinder it started raining. SO i had to finish real quick and slap it all back together. But i'm psyched it's not anything serious on those cylinders. So i'm now suspecting injectors. Will hopefully get those done this weekend. BALLER

Was looking at getting some injectors from Deatschwerks. When i mentioned Deatschwerks on my local forum a bunch of people went crazy right away. Saying MANY people have had problems with them... like hydrolocked engines... among others. One guy with an RB25 had crappy problems with Deatschwerks injectors.

I've always heard good things from this forum about Deatschwerks, so what gives? How come many others have had messed up stuff? Anyone willing to defend em?

[gs14racer]

Great news, as for douche works, as long as you just have them cleaned and inspected you should be fine with them. Its when they make them bigger thats the problem.

[CrazyTrance]

Great news, as for douche works, as long as you just have them cleaned and inspected you should be fine with them. Its when they make them bigger thats the problem.

Yes, that is awesome news for sure.

And thats exactly what i was thinking and the other guy that was skeptical agrees. It makes sense too since the person he was talking about had upgraded injectors from them. So i'll probably be buying their rebuilt injectors for $79 or whatever it is.

Also, we get a discount from them as NICO members right? I was reading in previous threads that it was a 10% discount. But when talking with someone on the AIM account they said the discount is free shipping. Which one is it? lol

[SuperHatch]

Yes, that is awesome news for sure.

And thats exactly what i was thinking and the other guy that was skeptical agrees. It makes sense too since the person he was talking about had upgraded injectors from them. So i'll probably be buying their rebuilt injectors for $79 or whatever it is.

Also, we get a discount from them as NICO members right? I was reading in previous threads that it was a 10% discount. But when talking with someone on the AIM account they said the discount is free shipping. Which one is it? lol

You can also get reconditioned injectors from Z1 performance...

http://www.z1motorsports.com/p...b84bf

Just select the 90-94 TT injectors. They're only 40 bucks a pop as opposed to 79 from deaschworks. Unless of course you have a 94-96 VH45, then you're out of luck from them.

[CrazyTrance]

You can also get reconditioned injectors from Z1 performance...

http://www.z1motorsports.com/p...b84bf

Just select the 90-94 TT injectors. They're only 40 bucks a pop as opposed to 79 from deaschworks. Unless of course you have a 94-96 VH45, then you're out of luck from them.

Are they as reputable? And are the quality of them as good as the rebuilt ones from Deatschwerks?I've got the old style rail, 90-94. You have any experience with them?

[Unnatural1]

Good news on the compression test! Major mechanical engine problems on these VH engine seem to be rare, except in the case of bad timing chain guides.

I've got 4 reconditioned DeatschWerks injectors running in my VH right now. I have not had a problem with them so far. They come with a 1 year warranty if I remember correctly. The Phase I injectors are $79.00 and the Phase II (mine!) injectors are about $63.00. I thought the 95-96 Z32 got the same "Phase II" injectors as my 94 Q45. Does Z1 offer those reconditioned too? Maybe I'm wrong on that one.

~Brendan

[CrazyTrance]

Good news on the compression test! Major mechanical engine problems on these VH engine seem to be rare, except in the case of bad timing chain guides.

I've got 4 reconditioned DeatschWerks injectors running in my VH right now. I have not had a problem with them so far. They come with a 1 year warranty if I remember correctly. The Phase I injectors are $79.00 and the Phase II (mine!) injectors are about $63.00. I thought the 95-96 Z32 got the same "Phase II" injectors as my 94 Q45. Does Z1 offer those reconditioned too? Maybe I'm wrong on that one.

~Brendan

Definitely! Thanks man!

Sweet. I think they were just referring to the DeatschWerks injectors that they modify to increase flow rate that are not reliable.

Yeah, i think Z1 offers those injectors for your engine (95-96). And i think your right, they might have the same ones as yours. The z32 TT (90-94) has the same injectors as the q45's (90-94). I've not really heard about the quality of Z1's injectors they sell as reconditioned units. Not sure on what they do compared to DeatschWerks though.

[Unnatural1]

Cool. Maybe I'll look into out of curiosity. I'm going to need a couple more injectors. I was going to stick with DeatschWerks so they all match. The original owner replaced 2 with new OE injectors and I've bought DeatschWerks reconditioned OE injectors.

I spoke to DeatschWerks about what they do to recondition their injectors. The thoroughly clean them and check their coils for proper resistance. Then they flow test them. I don't know what more you can really do to maintain quality when dealing with reconditioned parts. So far so good though.

What year was your VH? I have a 94 Q45 and originally bought Phase I (early style) injectors. It turns out that I have Phase II injectors which Nissan started switching to midway through the 94 model year. So, be sure to check the injector's plug before you order anything.

~Brendan

[CrazyTrance]

Right, I'm positive they are Phase I's They have the rectangular connector. And mine is a 92 i'm pretty sure.

Any chance you still have those Phase I injectors?? Wanna sell them at a discounted price? hmm? haha

[Unnatural1]

I would but I sent them back in exchange for my Phase II's. I forgot you have a 92 year model engine. I think I can find you a bad Phase II injector...I'll let it go for a really sweet price! kidding....

[CrazyTrance]

Hahaha

[CrazyTrance]

So last friday i got my injectors.



Took the old crappy ones out that i thought were fubar.

Here is a comparison between the #4 cyl. injector and the Deatschwerks Injector...

I think what happened is that the pintle cap cracked or something, causing the fuel to not be vaporized or whatever in the air properly... maybe getting on the pintle cap and burning? Causing it to melt like this? Idk, it's weird.

vv Here's a picture vv



But anyways. I put the two new injectors in along with new plugs on those cylinders and holy **** what do ya know, it fixes ALL of my problems. It sounds WAY different now and actually pulls like it should, like a bat outta hell; it's a beast! The smell of burning rubber is the greatest smell ever. Especially when it comes with the sound this engine makes.

I can't wait for the summer drift events to start once school is out for the summer and i can finally get on the track as a driver.... Hot damn its gonna be fun!

I'll try and get up a sound clip or something like a dumb ricer flyby or whatever.

Psyched i am.. for sure.

[John Dixon]

Nice one, must be a relief!How much were the injectors?

[alexanderig]

nice build very nice

[CrazyTrance]

Nice one, must be a relief!How much were the injectors?

Oh yeah. Definitely a relief!They were $79 each from Deatschwerks and i got free shipping when i told them i'm a NICOclub member over the phone.

nice build very nice

Thanks man

[Unnatural1]

Excellent news! Glad you got it fixed and running!

~Brendan