My ridiculous project... VH45DE into 240sx!

[bfreehill]

nice work, very inspirational.

[EMK]

Yeah man, it's fine. The VH is so smooth if it's running right you wont even feel it. I Daily drive mine every day to school and back. Take it on 600 mile trips to my home in MN and back.

I have my engine mounted SUPER low. It's only 1/4 inch above my steering rack and all i have to do is prop up the back of the hood a little bit and it will close, just barely touching the plenum. But consequently my oil pan hangs really low.. It's up to you. Make your own mounts and have it low like me or mount it higher, OR buy the mazworx mounts.

Nope, no regrets. Well maybe the amount of time i spent doing it rather than hanging out with my girlfriend and friends... but other than that no haha. Just make sure you've got good injectors, good MAF, and good compression. Also dont forget to check your timing chain guides!!!

You've done the swap the closest to the way I'm going with it and I wanted to ask a few questions. Fuel system: What pump did you use and did you use the Q's fuel pump control unit and since it's cheaper do you think the walboro would work. What regulator did you use. and on the emissions and idle quality stuff did you use the KA's stuff or the VH's?

[CrazyTrance]

You've done the swap the closest to the way I'm going with it and I wanted to ask a few questions. Fuel system: What pump did you use and did you use the Q's fuel pump control unit and since it's cheaper do you think the walboro would work. What regulator did you use. and on the emissions and idle quality stuff did you use the KA's stuff or the VH's?

I'm using a walbro 255 for a fuel pump. Nope, don't need the fuel pump control unit.

I was running it without an adjustable fpr for a while... but right now i'm running just a megan adjustable fpr. Got it from FRSport. It's working fine as far as i can tell.

As far as emissions stuff goes. I dont have any. Took out all the egr lines, took a steel plate and bolted it to where the egr solenoid would go using a new oem gasket inbetween.

It idle's fine. Sometimes when its cold and i start it it likes to rev up and down for a little bit for some reason... havent quite figured that one out yet.But other than that it idles at a smooth 800rpm.

I believe Carl on here kept all of his egr stuff. I just figured the hell with it and pulled it all out.

[Carl H]

i did keep egr because one of the main focus points of this swap was to keep gas mileage as high as possible.

[CrazyTrance]

And i did not care haha.

I think the highest i got was like 23mpg on the way to Minneapolis from Rapid City.

Just recently i got 19 or 20 on the way back from Minneapolis on a different occasion.

In town it sucks... or if your beating on it. haha

[hannibal]

So you did an S13 before you did a Z32? I'm really curios how they cimpare in difficulty. I guess using a KA altenator helps in the S. Did you use one in the Z? The oil pan is stock int he S and you had to fab something in the Z?

[CrazyTrance]

What? I didn't do this swap in a Z..

[hannibal]

Oops. Must have had you confused with someone else

[drkidd22]

I have to give you +++++ on this. I think I'm going to get fired from work today cuz I have not done s*** during the morning because of reading every single post of this F**ng Great build. First of all you the man because you didn't give up on you goal when you was ripped with the clip with the SR. I had a simillar problem to your and almost gave up on my car build up, but my mom told me that I had to finish what I started and not to give up on it and she's not even a car girl. So great Job!. I'm going on my third year on my '89 240sx SR20DET build and all I need right now is to get it painted.And also I like that everything was done by you, just like I have done with my car, from putting the engine in to wiring the freaking thing up, not like other people that take it to a shop and have someone else do it for them then they say, oh look what I built.

[CrazyTrance]

Oops. Must have had you confused with someone else

It's cool, no worries.

I have to give you +++++ on this. I think I'm going to get fired from work today cuz I have not done s*** during the morning because of reading every single post of this F**ng Great build. First of all you the man because you didn't give up on you goal when you was ripped with the clip with the SR. I had a simillar problem to your and almost gave up on my car build up, but my mom told me that I had to finish what I started and not to give up on it and she's not even a car girl. So great Job!. I'm going on my third year on my '89 240sx SR20DET build and all I need right now is to get it painted.And also I like that everything was done by you, just like I have done with my car, from putting the engine in to wiring the freaking thing up, not like other people that take it to a shop and have someone else do it for them then they say, oh look what I built.

Thanks, glad i was able to get you fired haha. But seriously, dont give up. It'll be worth it.

So here's an update. Some of these things i did a few months ago.

Knock sensors! These are from a 350z which are WAY cheaper than buying q45 knock sensors. I think they were like 35 bucks each or something like that. Anyways, get a pigtail from a KA injector harness and then solder them in place of the q45 knock sensor connectors.

Here's the knock sensors i received.

New knock sensor on the right, old on the left. Notice the difference in plugs.

Injector harness pigtails needed to be soldered.

You also have to cut one of the notches off the Z's knock sensors in order for the plug to fit. Once you do that it snaps right on.

Believe it or not, i was able to get both knock sensors replaced without removing the coolant y-connector.

On ething i noteced though is that the 350z knock sensor diagram shows that bothe pins are used. But i figured out one just needs to be grounded. I think i just put a crimp connector on the right pin (when looking at the knock sensor directly) and then twisted it and grounded it with the bolt that secures the knock sensor to the block. No problems thus far. Knock sensor code went away.

Plenum!!

So i had an extra plenum lying around and decided to clean it. Took it to a place to get it cleaned and they said they couldn't boil it because it was aluminum. So they put it in this tank that shot hot soapy water everywhere... Needless to say it didnt do much at all. Was kinda pissed. I could do more with acetone and a toothbrush when i brought it back to my house.

Anyways, told my buddy about it and got hooked me up with some free bead blasting!



Here's some pics after i painted the runners and plenum so they dont corrode.



Also finally got an adjustable FPR. Tried out the megan one. Got it from FRsport. It's working pretty well so far from what i can tell.



Also got a set of 8 used injectors for a pretty awesome price. Helped figure out my stumbling problems and what not. Although i know they wont last forever..

Thats all that i can think of right now. Other than that i'm having big cooling problems. My system isn't pressurizing for some reason. Going to bleed the system, replace thermostat, caps, and possibly get a new water pump and another new/different radiator if nothing else seems to be working.

[RY2K]

sick project/swap

[bigtony08]

dude awsome work on the fabrication this thing is sick. cant wait to start on the ls3 416 swap muhahahahahaha

[jbrobatl]

Do you run a front strut bar or does it not fit with that engine?

[CrazyTrance]

Well now that my car is broke again i have time to actually go on the internet and make posts again..... haha

Do you run a front strut bar or does it not fit with that engine?

Doesn't fit so i would like to make a custom one myself. But it seems once i finally get something fixed or am about to make something better. Something's gotta break on me.... My latest catastrophe???

Broken transmission and clutch. AND flywheel spacer.

SO i was merging slowly onto the interstate in 5th gear and all of a sudden it sound like my transmission popped out of gear and made the most horrid grinding noise in the world. Long story short i towed it back to my house with my house with my room mates truck. I finally got around to tearing it apart to find out what happened.

Here are carnage pictures. (Sorry for them all being crapy cell phone pics, couldn't find my better camera)

Engine pulled.



Clutch disc's teeth on my ACT 6 puck unsprung completely stripped off...



This is what it SHOULD look like. (minus the busted out spring up top, was from my first RPS clutch that blew up on me)

Hard to see but transmission splines are messed too. Some actually look to be BENT



And my hacked up flywheel spacer.



The story with the spacer is that i didnt have a pilot bearing in. Basically it was something i did two summers ago. When i was putting this thing together with the original RPS clutch i had, i tried bolting the transmission up and it wouldn't go on using the pilot bearing supplied by RPS. It wouldn't go on all the way. Took it back apart and found the pilot bearing was hitting part of the transmission input shaft where the spline starts after the tip for the pilot bearing. So i think what happened was i took out the pilot bearing and never used it. I remember a friend telling me he never had one in his car either and it was fine. So i wasn't TOO worried about it at the time. I think i figured the difference was that i was using an N/A z32 transmission instead of the turbo one which is what the adaptor plate setup was designed for. (i remember reading the were identical besides their clutches) Anyways thinking back on it now i was really dumb about that and in too much of a hurry and paying for it in the end. As you can see the inside of the spacer is completely hacked... and i'm not sure but no pilot bearing might have been a part of it.

Also, i check online. The part number of my ACT disc is 6240006. Which is the correct part number for my application. 90-96 300zx Non-Turbo. It also happens to be by coincidence the same part number for the 79-83 Turbo 300xz. But thats just a clarification that i wasnt using an incorrect disc..

And now i dont know about you guys but i've NEVER seen anything like this happening. Even daily driving it i've seen the metal twist apart on the clutch disc from using an unsprung but never the splines...

Pretty sure a combination of a welded diff, 1-piece driveshaft, unsprung clutch, and nearly solid engine mounts combined with it being daily driven had a part in this...
Modified by CrazyTrance at 11:51 AM 7/4/2009

[Bart]

welded diff, 1-piece driveshaft, unsprung clutch, and nearly solid engine mounts mean no give.Good for racing but longevity may be an issue. Over all top marks for effort mate.I would use at least a bronze bush if you cant fit a bearing. You can always machine down a bush as i did. But then i have recently changd to bearing but havnt tried the gearbox on yet, now im concerned.

[Chrispy300]

I machined down a standard Z32 spigot bearing. Down to 20mm +2thou -0. Worked like a charm. I would not want to not have a spigot bearing of some type!

[Rb240Coupe]

sicc project nice work

[Nismoeric]

let us know what you're running 1/4 mile! When do you plan on running it?

[Carl H]

no pilot bushing is only flirting with disaster...they locate the trans and keep the input shaft center and allow for a nice stable sliding assembly for the disc.tisk tisk.do it again!

solid engine mounts and welded diff arnt the culprit, the lack of the bushing was.

[SuperHatch]

no pilot bushing is only flirting with disaster...they locate the trans and keep the input shaft center and allow for a nice stable sliding assembly for the disc.tisk tisk.do it again!

solid engine mounts and welded diff arnt the culprit, the lack of the bushing was.

The pilot bearing has nothing to do with locating the trans, the dowel pins do that job, and that's why their location is so critical in designing a PROPER adapter plate.

As an FYI, I can name 4 OEMs who do not use pilot bushings/bearings. The input shaft is free floating in the crank. They are not a completely necessary item, just a really good idea and they form a more stable rotating assembly. The higher quality OEMs use them.

A good rule of thumb... If the car had one OEM, use it.

[Carl H]

excuse me then, what i meant to say is it locates the input shaft and keeps it square...

as for the bushing/bearing bit goes chances are that those makes have the input shaft od machined into the id of the crank for an almost bushing like fit.

[z_roots]

Great story, I read the whole thing - awesome way to kill time working in a jail haha

You're a brave one taking on this swap, and that's too bad about the hard lesson learned

Keep us updated

[CrazyTrance]

The pilot bearing has nothing to do with locating the trans, the dowel pins do that job, and that's why their location is so critical in designing a PROPER adapter plate.

As an FYI, I can name 4 OEMs who do not use pilot bushings/bearings. The input shaft is free floating in the crank. They are not a completely necessary item, just a really good idea and they form a more stable rotating assembly. The higher quality OEMs use them.

A good rule of thumb... If the car had one OEM, use it.

Yeah that is a very good rule of Thumb So i'm going to try and bore it out to re-fit a roller pilot bearing in there. I keep wondering if it was a manufacturing defect or something. Because honestly i've never seen that happen. I've seen it stist the metal apart in between the spline and the pads so that makes me wonder why the splines gave out as i'm positive i greased the spline when i re-installed it.

excuse me then, what i meant to say is it locates the input shaft and keeps it square...

as for the bushing/bearing bit goes chances are that those makes have the input shaft od machined into the id of the crank for an almost bushing like fit.

Thats a reason i wasnt so worried about not using a pilot bearing. I thought the flywheel spacer fit perfectly around the input shaft at the far end of the spacer and acted as sort of a pilot bearing itself. Guess not.
Modified by CrazyTrance at 7:54 AM 7/7/2009

[dsc4130]

A good rule of thumb... If the car had one OEM, use it.

very good rule, nissan put it there, usually its suppose to be there

[SuperHatch]

Yeah that is a very good rule of Thumb So i'm going to try and bore it out to re-fit a roller pilot bearing in there. I keep wondering if it was a manufacturing defect or something. Because honestly i've never seen that happen. I've seen it stist the metal apart in between the spline and the pads so that makes me wonder why the splines gave out as i'm positive i greased the spline when i re-installed it.

I have honestly never seen that happen either. Usually if the torque is sufficient to strip the splines, the input shaft would simply break.

Either you got an incorrectly marked disk (right part number/wrong part) or it was simply machined wrong. While I agree that all the solid driveline parts put additional stress on the clutch, it's not enough to do that.

My first thought looking at those pictures was that you put the wrong clutch disk on, but you said you verified the part number so that only leaves MFR. defect.

[Carl H]

i doubt it was a manufacturer defect, i still think it was due to the input shaft wobbling around and the disc getting clamped at different spots thus loading up the splines.

[SuperHatch]

i doubt it was a manufacturer defect, i still think it was due to the input shaft wobbling around and the disc getting clamped at different spots thus loading up the splines.

Can you explain this wobbling?

There should be less than .002" clearance between the splined mating surfaces if they are mating and manufactured correctly.

Or do you mean the end of the input shaft where it should have been supported by the crank? I can understand your thought here, but if the clutch clamed down while the input shaft was off center, the splines would still be fully engaged, however the clutch disk itself would be distorted lightly like a potatoe chip... it still wouldn't cause that kind of spline damage.

[CrazyTrance]

I think it would cause damage like that though. Picture it clamped off centerlike that and then picture it rotating. It wobbles around and would create odd abnormal wear and would possibly open up the tollerances at the end of the discs spline weakening it. Although it could be a combination of both

[SuperHatch]

I think it would cause damage like that though. Picture it clamped off centerlike that and then picture it rotating. It wobbles around and would create odd abnormal wear and would possibly open up the tollerances at the end of the discs spline weakening it. Although it could be a combination of both

I understand what you're picturing, I think, but when the disk is clamped down the crankshaft, flywheel, clutch, pp, input shaft, are all spinning at exactly the same RPM. It would but spinning off center, but the orientation of the input shaft, disk, etc. all stays the same until the clutch pedal is depressed again. The stress would be in the distortion of the disk face and on the input shaft bearings.

[Carl H]

i think you guys got what i was after, unsupported inputshaft allowing deflection thus causing all kinds of odd wear.