Moved: Drifting with Helical LSD?

[xagna]

I am thinking about buying a LSD. Has any one drifted with helical LSD? Is it not good at all for drifting?

[naed240sx]

Before anybody responds to this, don't bother posting if you are just regurgitating what you have heard off of the internet. If you can explain how one would react during drifting, and why, then speak up, but don't just say "They act like open diffs when drifting, and suck, get a clutch type". This is the generic response, which is probably not even true, and I am tired of hearing it.

Here is a site about helical diffs:http://www.flashoffroad.com/fe...s.htm

I have been wondering this same thing. Obviously, clutch diffs are better, because when they lock , they lock completely and provide equal power to both wheels, which results in a very predictable car. I myself am interested in a helical, because they are great for daily driving, and grip like crazy on the street.

However, I am still unsure as to how one would bias torque when drifting. It seems by the description that a helical is unable to bias all of the torque to one wheel, and prevents one wheel from spinning at a much higher speed than the other. I would presume that a helical would bias more power to the outside wheel during drifting, as it would have slightly more traction. This would probably result in it being more difficult to maintain long slides without a large amount of power, as opposed to using an open diff or clutch diff.

[xagna]

Thanks a lot for the reply. I have not seen a car at events that had hellical LSD yet. But people there were debating about it. I wanted to know about this because of the OBX helical LSD which doesn't cost as much as Quaife.

[naed240sx]

Thanks a lot for the reply. I have not seen a car at events that had hellical LSD yet. But people there were debating about it. I wanted to know about this because of the OBX helical LSD which doesn't cost as much as Quaife.

Yeah there is no doubt that a clutch type would be better, but I have not gotten any reliable feedback or proof of how a helical would react when drifting.

[chmercer]

sombody on ziptied tried to drift with one, it sucked. clutch type is better for everything anyway. except low horsepower road racing.

[naed240sx]

sombody on ziptied tried to drift with one, it sucked. clutch type is better for everything anyway. except low horsepower road racing.

What sucked about it? Was it just reacting like an open diff because the traction loss was so great? Or was it biasing too much power to the outside wheel and causing him to lose angle?

[chmercer]

lol who thinks about that stuff when they are driving. the car ploughed a lot, and was hard to drift. rear wouldnt come out as easy. iirc. ill look for the thread

basically the reason why gear type diffs suck is because they depend on relative slip angle which cannot always be controlled accuratley by the driver and can cause unpredictable torque bias, where as clutch diffs are generally either on or off.

[naed240sx]

lol who thinks about that stuff when they are driving. the car ploughed a lot, and was hard to drift. rear wouldnt come out as easy. iirc. ill look for the thread

I know, I know. It would be hard to tell I guess. I just really want one because the cheap, and are smooth on the street, and grip very well. If it totally sucks for drifting though I won't be getting one.

Think it would be worse than an open? Because my vlsd took a ****.

[dousan_pg]

What sucked about it? Was it just reacting like an open diff because the traction loss was so great? Or was it biasing too much power to the outside wheel and causing him to lose angle?

ive drifted w/ one, i use to have an S15 oneit sucked because it doesnt rotate and hold out as easilythe power isnt going equally to both wheelsit doenst have that initial bite

it sucks it sucks it sucksit sucks it sucks it sucks

..for DRIFTING

for road racing id be all over it like flies on ****.

anyways, im talking first hand and not out of my ***ive tried, vlsd, 1.5, 2 way, hlsd and welded diffs used and new LSD of various types..some on my car (1.5, used 2 way, hlsd, vlsd and 2 way new lsd) and others on others cars when teaching or testing a friends car..or bs'ing. cusco, kaaz's, nismos, and tomei lsds too.

2 way is my favorite hands down. i have a Nismo SSS adjustable 2 way LSD i bought many moons ago. no regrets. its also 1.5 way if i disasssmble and reassmele it and its 3 way torque breakaway. i did my homework, bets bang for the buck. too bad the GT PRO came out a few months after i recieved mine (special order and awit from jland) otherwise i would have went that route, oh well such is life.

[Kenrik]

What sucked about it? Was it just reacting like an open diff because the traction loss was so great? Or was it biasing too much power to the outside wheel and causing him to lose angle?

if it is sending power to the outside wheel then it would be acting exactly like an open differential because it's always the inside wheel that looses traction and spins more with an open diif. (see picture in sig, smoke is only comming from the inside wheel)

[naed240sx]

if it is sending power to the outside wheel then it would be acting exactly like an open differential because it's always the inside wheel that looses traction and spins more with an open diif. (see picture in sig, smoke is only comming from the inside wheel)

Open diffs send all or more power to the inside wheel. Helicals will bias more torque to the wheel with more resistance(grip) (The outside wheel)

[dousan_pg]

cool u just showed how much a HLSD sucks for drift

u want equal power to BOTH wheels at the same time.something a cluch LSD (or welded if your budget person) can do.

[naed240sx]

cool u just showed how much a HLSD sucks for drift

u want equal power to BOTH wheels at the same time.something a cluch LSD (or welded if your budget person) can do.

Yes I know this. I am just wondering if it is passable for drifting. If it is better than an open or a worn out vlsd, I would do it. Keep in mind that I want to get into other sorts of track events eventually, but will be doing mainly drifting for a couple of years. I know hlsd's are a blast on the street, so as long as it would be OK, I would get one.

[dousan_pg]

sure u can do it.is it worth your time and energy to source, install, use and then eventually remove and sell?

no.

do it right the first time.dont 1/2 *** it.

[steve s14]

the reason a helical lsd doesn't work well for drifting is because you want to loose traction to get the rear wheels to slide. so in other words, you are looking for very little traction to cause the rear to swing out.a helical diff works by biasing torque from one side to the other side. they are even able to transfer more torque to the wheel with traction. that's why the are so good for road racing. they are very efficient.the problem is if one wheel has zero load on it, lets say it's on ice or something, then it won't see a torque difference and won't transfer any power to the wheel with grip and will act like an open diff.i would assume that when a car is drifting, the outside wheel probably has very little traction, while the inside wheel zero traction and that's when it acts like an open diff.

[dousan_pg]

drifting isnt about losing traction. its about controlling iti want traction i buy new grippy tiresthe 2way givse you more control over your car, how it reacts to your inputs.

a helical is transfering power and torque and u cant control it mid drift.

u want a 2 way or 1.5 or 1 way or welded for drift because under accel you can control it w/o it going funky. the off throttle depends on what u want, thst why u can run a varietyof clutch lsd/weld diffs.

drifting is all about traction.

[steve s14]

no, drifting is about controlling the level of traction front verse rear in a corner.road racing is all about traction.

[naed240sx]

drifting isnt about losing traction. its about controlling iti want traction i buy new grippy tiresthe 2way givse you more control over your car, how it reacts to your inputs.

a helical is transfering power and torque and u cant control it mid drift.

u want a 2 way or 1.5 or 1 way or welded for drift because under accel you can control it w/o it going funky. the off throttle depends on what u want, thst why u can run a varietyof clutch lsd/weld diffs.

drifting is all about traction.

But you think that both wheels were at least getting power? Maybe varying amounts, but closer to a 50-50 split than an open at least right?

[dousan_pg]

no, drifting is about controlling the level of traction front verse rear in a corner.road racing is all about traction.

duh what the **** did i just say?

drifting isnt about losing traction. its about controlling it

[dousan_pg]

But you think that both wheels were at least getting power? Maybe varying amounts, but closer to a 50-50 split than an open at least right?

yeah were getting smoethingbut not enough to hold consist solid good feelign drifts.

end of story, get a clutch lsd or weld yours.

done.

[naed240sx]

yeah were getting smoethingbut not enough to hold consist solid good feelign drifts.

end of story, get a clutch lsd or weld yours.

done.

Hmm. Well thanks a lot for the feedback. What you have told me is a lot more insightful than people just simply saying "NO".

[dousan_pg]

anytime

i would suggest against itunless you do a lot of auto-x road race and som driftingthen go for it

but i want to do mostly drifting dont get it. and dont get that cheap crap like obx whatever they make..those spider gear things

get a real lsd or weld yours if your on budget

best 2 waysand u most likely WONT regret it

if u want to keep the options more open, get a 1.5 way kaaz. u can have kaaz change the settings on it and plates if u want to have it set up a certain way.

[steve s14]

duh what the **** did i just say?

let me refresh your memory

drifting is all about traction.

i'm not disagreeing with you, i'm just explaining why it sucks so bad for drifting.if you look at other low traction forms of motorsports, it's the same story, they use clutch types or spools. off road racing, mud bogging, etc.

[dousan_pg]

that was at the endbecause it is about tractionabout controlling it

so i was righ tin both placesnow if your done nit picking...

[steve s14]

look, you're welcome to believe what you want. i'm not going to argue with you but i'll add this. when you are intentionally breaking traction to cause your car to slide, at that point, it's not about traction and more about the lack there of.i would call it all about car control with low traction similar to rally racing or off road racing.feel free to say what you want but that's my belief and i'll end it at that.

[FattyMcBaggins]

Well, you guys have just sold me on a helical for street use/autocross. I was going to get a 1.5 way clutch, but clutch types seem a bit harsh for daily. I commute and want to autocross/road race mainly, maybe some drifting here or there. Not to threadjack but does anybody know where I could get an S15 LSD?

[dousan_pg]

get a quaifeiirc life time coverage? its pricey but worth its15 ud have to get from some parts importer and most wont know if its a s15 or not

ebay is another good place.

[nismofly]

if you can afford it definately get the quaife

s15 would be great if you know its an s15, thats what i hope to get

[chmercer]

OT - fattymcbaggins is your name in RL noah?

sorry nico has no pm feature *shrug*

[naed240sx]

OT - fattymcbaggins is your name in RL noah?

sorry nico has no pm feature *shrug*

info says andrew white.
Modified by naed240sx at 12:02 AM 4/6/2006