Moved: Drifting with Helical LSD?

[Red coupe]

lol who thinks about that stuff when they are driving...

I do, you dont?

its pretty easy to tell if its an S15, you can see the worm gear end through the casing..
Modified by Red coupe at 8:26 AM 4/6/2006

[dousan_pg]

lol who thinks about that stuff when they are driving...

I do, you dont?

NOonly an idiot would think oh **** my lsd...its the jam or its not working right

i think about about nailing the apex not sliding into my friends rear 1/4 during twin drift, and setting the car up and the right line

the LAST thing to think about it my car, its setup and of cousre, the LSD and how its doing.

no one in their right mind would wory for these things unless your in the pits crying because i bought a HLSD and it sucks for drift.

[Red coupe]

I just figured most people could pay attention to whether or not their wheels were slipping when they drove...

all he asked was

What sucked about it? Was it just reacting like an open diff because the traction loss was so great? Or was it biasing too much power to the outside wheel and causing him to lose angle?

lol who thinks about that stuff when they are driving.

you guys cant tell when your spinning one wheel, and what wheel is spinning? you don't think about the angle your car is entering a corner?and being able to tell that makes you an idiot? Here I though it was a good thing to be able to tell what your car was doing while driving. But good job acting high and mighty and calling people idiots, Im sure you must be a complete bad ***...

[dousan_pg]

no u dont think of those thingsangle no i dont think of such. shouldnt have toits more important to set up the car with the line and angle you wantyou dont think about it,its automatic, its in your brain you do it naturally...well if you arenewb you gotat focus on it.but as you improve its jsut automatic, you just do it. no thinking required, second nature.

i can tell when one wheel is spinning but it never happens because i dont usa POS HLSD, VLSD or open diff.

in realiity anyone who drives often enough and sets up their car decently the last think you do is think about how your car is. because a well setup car will let you focus on your DRIVING....not the car.

[Red coupe]

..well if you arenewb you gotat focus on it.but as you improve its jsut automatic, you just do it. no thinking required, second nature.

Well all he asked was if either wheel got tomuch power and If you couldnt get as much angle...

So if you can tell a wheel is spinning, and you can tell what angle your at its not an unreasonable question...How are you gonna say focusing on what your car is doing makes you a newb? You relized you just called pretty much every race car driver a newb?

ugg this inst going anywere helpful, I quit.

[chmercer]

haha guess not then, nvm

[dousan_pg]

Well all he asked was if either wheel got tomuch power and If you couldnt get as much angle...

So if you can tell a wheel is spinning, and you can tell what angle your at its not an unreasonable question...How are you gonna say focusing on what your car is doing makes you a newb? You relized you just called pretty much every race car driver a newb?

ugg this inst going anywere helpful, I quit.

when did i say ever race car driver is a newb?first of all not talking about race cars. talking about drift carssecondly, do you even drift?please stop being an idiot and being a problem rather then asnwer the guy's qthe question was about hlsds end supthey suck for drifting

newbs focus on those things because they are still learning about getting hte car sideways, holding angles, transistions and such. the smoothness, natural feeling and consistency isnt there yet. but it tkase timehaving a car thats wel setup would allow a begginer to focus on his/her line, speed, entry transistions, and so forth instead of thinking 'oh i wonder if my tires are spinning equally'

so imo as i said before, i would not recommend a HLSD for a drift car because it doesnt feel the same and wont respond the smae as a clutch lsd

which seems to be agreed on by ..sh*t i dont know......pretty much 99% of the drifting population around the world. thats all. small group of folks.

[Joe]

dousan is right, there is a reason nobody uses HLSD's for drifting, because they suck and dont do it as well as a clutch LSD.

[naed240sx]

dousan is right, there is a reason nobody uses HLSD's for drifting, because they suck and dont do it as well as a clutch LSD.

Yeah but everybody already knew this, except maybe the creator of the thread.

I was specificaly asking how does a helical actually function when drifting. Where is most of the power going when sliding? Is there a large difference in applied power at each wheel? These questions were partially answered. I am still seriously considering one, because of how streetable they are, and how well they function for spirited driving on the street or during autox/road course racing. I know that a clutch diff is WAY better than a helical for drifting, but as long as a helical is passable (provides a decent amount of power to both wheels, functions at least better than an open or vls diff), I am getting one.

[Red coupe]

Dousan I think you are missunderstanding what I am getting at here...

I was merly talking about naeds question "Was it just reacting like an open diff because the traction loss was so great? Or was it biasing too much power to the outside wheel and causing him to lose angle?"and the reply that who thinks about that....

You may not have to plan it out, and it may not be what you are primarily focusing on, but Im sure that pretty much any decent driver would be aware of it...Thats all i was getting at. I think you were taking "think" to mean that its what your primary focus is, I just ment "think" as in your aware of it.

Im not saying anything about wether or not a HLSD would be good for drift, or even anything about drifting. Just that its not outlandish to ask how it felt like the diff was balancing power, and how that balance of power is effecting the cars ability.

anyways this has nothing to do with the tread so Ill stop now

[Joe]

Yeah but everybody already knew this, except maybe the creator of the thread.

I was specificaly asking how does a helical actually function when drifting. Where is most of the power going when sliding? Is there a large difference in applied power at each wheel? These questions were partially answered. I am still seriously considering one, because of how streetable they are, and how well they function for spirited driving on the street or during autox/road course racing. I know that a clutch diff is WAY better than a helical for drifting, but as long as a helical is passable (provides a decent amount of power to both wheels, functions at least better than an open or vls diff), I am getting one.

the problem is the power levels can change mid drift. in a "perfect" situation both wheels recieve 50/50 power split, like they do in a clutch differential ALL THE TIME, but a helical dosent do that.

its all kinda diff specific but around 4 or 5:1 is common for a helical diff if memory serves me right. meaning the gripping side gets 5ftlbs of torque for every 1ftlbs of torque the "slipping" side gets. you see why this can cause a problem drifting? things are always in a state of change drifting and espically on transitions you will have a HUGE power swing from one wheel to the next wich can make unpredictable situations.

so as for it being "passable" for drifting. personally if you are gonna drift at all on a regular basis i wouldnt touch it with a 10 foot pole. i have a kaaz 1.5way and i love it. great for grip, drift, whatever. the only downside to the agressive clutch LSD's is the noise but you can greatly reduce that by buying a less agressive diff or using the rediculously expensive fluid.

[dousan_pg]

if ur going to do what you say your going to doa HLSD is finepassalbe for not so serious drifters when you really get serious (comps, regular events etc) it wont cut it.

but if it just for fun once every few months you'll be fine.

1.5 way lsds kick ***

kaaz is noisy no matter what it is hahaha..only reason i didnt get a kaaz. the nismo is wicked quiet and still agressive and good lockup. my only beef w/ kaaz/tomei lsds

[TanManS14]

So you cant here the 1.5 way very much, cause I was wondering about that, ive also heard that kazz is loud. But the nismo locks good? And how is it for daily driving?

[dousan_pg]

nismo as a daily is finei bought my SSS new.my friend has a Nismo street (newer version) its quiet. doesnt worry about those special fluids and stuff. i make him stick w/ redline

i use redline 80w140 and he uses 75w90 or whatever it is

i love my nismomost my friends in jland use nismo on the s and r chassis as wellkaaz is great in the USA because of supportKAAZ USA is the bset, they are very knowledgable and back their stuff up. which is wonderful

but personally im a fan of Nismo LSDs. ive tried many types, Nismo, KAAZ, Tomei, all work great on track for sure. but driving around town, Nismo is the quietest.

iirc so is my buddies ATS but i havent driven it first hand or recall riding on the street/around track pits in a while ...i forget.

[naed240sx]

So you cant here the 1.5 way very much, cause I was wondering about that, ive also heard that kazz is loud. But the nismo locks good? And how is it for daily driving?

The nismos are pretty quiet. kaaz are loud as **** and make clunking noises everytime you make a low speed turn. Basically what clutch diffs do is stay locked all the time, except when you are making lower speed corners or driving around parking lots. As soon as you get on the throttle, they lock up. Braking lock up is not as severe, hence the 1.5 designation.

[dousan_pg]

The nismos are pretty quiet. kaaz are loud as **** and make clunking noises everytime you make a low speed turn. Basically what clutch diffs do is stay locked all the time, except when you are making lower speed corners or driving around parking lots. As soon as you get on the throttle, they lock up. Braking lock up is not as severe, hence the 1.5 designation.

no nokaaz is noisy becuse it engages (locsk) and disengages so thts why makes it clunkmy nismo does it very rarelyits more of the SH SH SH SH of the tires (like a welded diff--no clunck just tire chirp)

but kaaz diff cn be changed to be more agressive and lock up faster and stay locked.

the clunk is lock unlock lock unlock going on.

[naed240sx]

no nokaaz is noisy becuse it engages (locsk) and disengages so thts why makes it clunkmy nismo does it very rarelyits more of the SH SH SH SH of the tires (like a welded diff--no clunck just tire chirp)

but kaaz diff cn be changed to be more agressive and lock up faster and stay locked.

the clunk is lock unlock lock unlock going on.

That is what I meant. It is locked untill you start trying to make low speed turns, and the plates slip then engage, slip then engage....

[Joe]

dousan did you run kaaz fluid in your 1.5 all the time?

on the rare occasion i run it, my diff gets a ****LOAD quieter. sounds more like tire scrub than the clunks and pops like when i use the lucas fluid.

[dousan_pg]

no the kaaz is my beater lsd, its my extra i just use valvoline. i rarely change the fluid too

my nismo gets the redlineits not on the car right now, i have to get the new 4.3 stuff installed

my kaaz already has the 4.3 setup.

[Joe]

mmm 4.3's

you heading to vegas for the comp in 2 weeks?

[dousan_pg]

no i dont trust that company organizing the eventread up on itf thatjust drift is the way to go.

[TanManS14]

Cool thanks guyswhen I get one Ill probably go with the nismo, for sake of being more quiet and streetable. Thanks guys.

[Joe]

no i dont trust that company organizing the eventread up on itf thatjust drift is the way to go.

yea i was talking to brent about it and how they have flaked before. they have a scheduled comp in phoenix in september im just gonna shoot for that one haha

[dousan_pg]

anything driftgirl is associated w/ i wont touch. super lame. most of my friends wont be doing those too. hahaha

f that.

just drift and dday still urns the best comps. good coverage too w/ mags and ****.

[importer]

I see a lot of posts/questions about this LSD, or that LSD for drifting.Bottom line is that what diff you have is less important than your suspension set-up & tires you run.I can maintain a smooth drift with an open LSD if the suspension is correct.You want the rear end to slide, and the front end to stick.First, the suspension on the rear needs to be extremely stiff, in the neighborhood of 750-1000 pound/inch springs, and a BIG sway bar.The front suspension needs to be very supple, so stock, or no front sway bar.Second, you want hard rear tires, and sticky front tires.Spend your big bucks on DOT race tires on the front, and put the cheap-a$$ pep-boys on the rear.That is just handling basics guys !Find yourself a cheap set of rear coil-overs for drift day, and pick up some 14 to 24k springs. (in Japan the springs are rated by kilograms per millimeter instead of pounds per inches like US Hot-Rod springs are. To get from one to the other, multiply by 56, and you will be close)Put your cheap-a$$ drift tires on the rear, and go practice driving sideways!Since changing the diff is a lot more work, pick a LSD that you can live with on the street. ( I am a firm believer in the helical, that is why I specialize in them in my eBay listings)Let the suspension dictate the car's handling.

[Red coupe]

First, the suspension on the rear needs to be extremely stiff, in the neighborhood of 750-1000 pound/inch springs, and a BIG sway bar.The front suspension needs to be very supple, so stock, or no front sway bar.Second, you want hard rear tires, and sticky front tires.

I may not be a drifter but thats the most rediculous thing Ive ever heard...

[Joe]

i had a diff before i had coilovers and i reccomend that route to everyone.

the fact of the matter is with an open differential you cant physically hold the same speed through a drift that you can with a good LSD. period. its physics. that means its harder to initiate, maintain and control.

and as a newbie yes you should use the cheapest tires you can but as you get better that cheap **** dosent cut it. you need something predictable. the last time i used a generic tire i couldnt transition or hold a 3rd gear slide for ****. they are totally unperdictable and dangerous.

do NOT put slicks on the front as a newbie. EVER EVER EVER. r compounds are not something a newbie should be playing with because they will change traction drastically from cold to hot.

and BTW 14k springs are stiffer than anything thats ever been put on the rear of a S chassis. 24k is so far off its retarded. just weld the damn spindle to the frame at that point.

the car you described (with coilovers in the rear not the front, stupid large sway bars, horrible tires in the back and r compounds in the front) may drift but thats the worst setup ive ever heard. contrary to what most people think a properley set up drift car handles very well on a road course.

[dousan_pg]

importer: you sole handidly gave the WORST SETUP ADVICE EVER. crappy tires in rear? are you serious? and your spring rates? ahahah please dont give advice.

[importer]

I may not be a drifter but thats the most rediculous thing Ive ever heard...

You have evidentially Never in you life set up Any type of race car suspension before........I have, everything from road race cars to oval dirt cars.Pick up any rudimentary book on car set-up, and it will tell you exactly what you need to do to 'loosen a car (make the back end slide more), and it will be exactly what I suggested.

[nismofly]

"loosen" is one thing

running crappy rear tires with slicks in the front, and about 3 times the rear spring rate youd ever want to run, thats absurd

these arent hondas, we dont run spring rates nearly that high, we get the same wheel rates through much lower spring rates