Making too big of a deal ABOUT Obama

[JimmyMethod]

Now you are catching on, Jimmy.

Ohhh... so you're admitting to being a reactionary imbecile who's willing to slight civil rights to further your argument that's based not on facts, but irrational disdain.

See, I generally think people grow out of that once they hit puberty.

I would find sweet Irony if in your travel stories you are referring to Europe. The majority of Europe is down right xenophobic towards all the immigrating groups from North Africa, Sub Saharan Africa and the Middle East. As an American, I would take sweet sweet pleasure in being called a racist xenophobe by the Europeans.

As someone who is studying French, I am away of institutionalized racism in many European countries (a huge part of it comes from them making it illegal to use an affirmative action policy, or even keep track of racial inequalities, but that's another discussion). These people were as follows: Canadian, French, French, Swiss, Portuguese, English, and a couple of Indian guys. Yes, they understand that their countries also have racial bigotry, but that doesn't mean they don't think we have it too.

[Cold_Zero]

Who is this monolithic 'they'?

I blame both parties for the repeal of Glass-Steagall, and bills like it.

The media will probably still blame Bush, saying that it was his fault in the first place. This will probably happen for the next 4 year or so I would imagine.

Even though they did not blame Clinton for the Recession and the Al Qaeda threat that Bush inherited.

Sorry, the internet here at work is broke. For some reason I always have problems posting in threads.

[C-Kwik]

I'm certain many African Americans are pro obama because of his skin color not his political viewpoints.

As I'm sure there were some people who voted against Obama because he is black. How well that balances? I have no idea. But it is still a two-way street.

The comment about a black man being in the white house built by slaves was retarded. I don't remember news coverage the first time a Chinese guy rode on a train or something else equally retarded to point out

I agree, its a retarded comment. But the media is retarded. The milestone this presidency represents is huge. But do understand that this is not just a win for African Americans. Its a win for all of us (from a civil rights POV). However, I'll declare the race issue a non-issue when noone talks about it. Even African-Americans.

My wife brought up a good point this morning; Several African America celebrities, for example Oprah, are insanely supportive of Obama. There's nothing wrong with that, but during other elections i don't recall Oprah strongly backing one candidate over another. I have to wonder if she was just pushing that hard for a ground breaking first black president.

If ground breaking was all she wanted, then she could have just as easily endorsed Clinton. From what I've read, many women were upset that she endorsed Obama rather than Clinton. And it would appear that the majority of her viewers were Clinton supporters as well. Why did Oprah endorse Obama publically? Who knows. I certainly do not. You and your wife probably do not. The irony here is that you started this thread under the guise that you are sick of people making a big deal about Obama's race, but then you go and imply that Oprah supported him because of his race. And more importantly, whether African-Americans or Oprah voted for Barack due to race is irrrelevant to discussing the way the media covered the inauguration....

obama seems to me like possibly the most convincing 'salesman' ever.

He's very articulate, well educated, and has the ability to get the masses to back him with an extreme passion (reminds me of adolf hitler).

what worries me is the possibility that he is just that, a talker. and since he has now talked his way into office, when it comes time to act - he will fall short. But we will see.

Hitler was not a talker. He was a doer. He didn't persecute millions of Jews just by talking about it. He didn't take over most of Europe by just talking about it. He DID it.

Obama is a great talker. Time will tell what kind of President he will turn out to be. But writing him off and trying to equate the man to Hitler tells me you've already made up your mind. And its only his first day on the job...

No, but that is not what King's legacy is all about (getting a black man elected to the position of the Presidency of the United States). To sell it short by affixing it to the Presidency of one man, sells it short. Again, the work that King did transcends all this.

I agree that MLK's legacy encompasses much greater than putting a black man into the White House, but it is a significant accomplishment along the timeline for the Civil Rights movement. The US presidency is regarded as the being one of the highest positions in the world. And given the US's African American history, it makes it just that more significant. How much of an impact this will have in MLK's overall Legacy will not be seen for many years.

As for this:

1. Obama's people were never freed by Abe Lincoln. As Obama descends from Eastern Africans who were not enslaved by the former American Colonies nor the United States of America.2. Obama did not participate in the Civil Rights Movement of the 50's and 60's. 3. It was the Black Establishment that came out against Obama as a candidate in 2006, backed Hillary Clinton and said some pretty desparaging things about Obama. Guys like Bobby Rush, Bob Johnson (founder of BET), Al Shaprton and Jessie Jackson.

1. One place that racism does not discriminate is here. Most racists aren't going to care what part of Africa a person came from. The color of the skin is what they discriminate for. MLK's legacy encompasses more than African American Slavery.

2. The civil rights movement is ongoing as is MLK's legacy. Though, perhaps it should be further noted that Obama was probably about 8 or 9 at the end of the 60's. Not sure how much participation could be expected then. Nor do I think African Americans need to actively participate in the movement. Simply working hard to further his own life towards success is a huge part of the movement. His accomplishment should be considered an inspiration to the movement as more people (of all races) should aspire to be successful.

3. Is that to say because there were black people and organizations that didn't support him that this mark in the civil right movement timeline isn't significant. When it comes down to it, we have the first African American President in the history of the United States. THIS is what is significant. Has nothing to do with Barack himself. If any other African American were elected into the Presidency instead, regardless of who backed him, where he was born or whether or not he participated in the Civil Rights movement, the significance of the event would still be just as big (or small).

[White Comet]

c kwik, you bring up some good points but i think you misunderstand my intentions. i don't claim to know why oprah or any other celebrity or any person period voted for him, but i suppose i shoudl have started this as a what if thread. basically i'm wondering how different things woudl be if obama was exactly the same politically but white instead. as for the inauguration coverage, that was more of a separate thought but still worth mentioning imo

[Cold_Zero]

As for this:

1. One place that racism does not discriminate is here. Most racists aren't going to care what part of Africa a person came from. The color of the skin is what they discriminate for. MLK's legacy encompasses more than African American Slavery.

2. The civil rights movement is ongoing as is MLK's legacy. Though, perhaps it should be further noted that Obama was probably about 8 or 9 at the end of the 60's. Not sure how much participation could be expected then. Nor do I think African Americans need to actively participate in the movement. Simply working hard to further his own life towards success is a huge part of the movement. His accomplishment should be considered an inspiration to the movement as more people (of all races) should aspire to be successful.

I will give you the point that the King Legacy and the Legacy Civil Rights Movement is for all people in this country. I was not trying diminish the importance of the work of these two legacies/groups/person had/have on this country. I find it disingenuous, that the Obama is invoking all these slavery themes and yet he is not a direct descendent of slaves. Now when Dr. Martin Luther King, who not only lived during and fought against deep seeded Southern discrimination but descended from Slaves, invoked themes of slavery in his speeches and his writing, I don’t have a problem with that. But we as a people have this tendency to take a legacy, strip out the history in it, twist it into what is politically expedient for our benefit. Case in point was the 2008 Republican Presidential Debate at the Reagan library, where all the Republicans stood up and proclaimed how they were just like Ronald Reagan. I nearly vomited. And yet, where is Obama’s invocation of the Latino and Native American themes in the Civil Rights Movement?

Quote »3. Is that to say because there were black people and organizations that didn't support him that this mark in the civil right movement timeline isn't significant. When it comes down to it, we have the first African American President in the history of the United States. THIS is what is significant. Has nothing to do with Barack himself. If any other African American were elected into the Presidency instead, regardless of who backed him, where he was born or whether or not he participated in the Civil Rights movement, the significance of the event would still be just as big (or small). [/quote]Remember, my comments revolved around the invocation /high jacking of the King legacy in order for Obama to benefit politically. I guess, if your definition of significant in the terms of history is that a task has been accomplished that has never been done before, then I would agree with you. Yes, this would be Historically Significant. But that was really never my point in this thread. It is all the extra crap that is affixed to this ‘Historically Significant’ event that I am calling into question. I have a feeling that you just read my posts and deduce that I am some bitter Bush Support that doesn’t want to give Obama his due. That was not my aim.

[Cold_Zero]

Ohhh... so you're admitting to being a reactionary imbecile who's willing to slight civil rights to further your argument that's based not on facts, but irrational disdain.

See, I generally think people grow out of that once they hit puberty.

Ohhhh I get it, you really want to be banned for personally attacking people in this forum to prove that you are right and to make others look bad. I see how it is.

You asked if I was being (in your words) "difficult/obstinate, fine. " I have no problem with being difficult. But I will not allow you to put words into my mouth and personally attack people.

Quote »As someone who is studying French, I am away of institutionalized racism in many European countries (a huge part of it comes from them making it illegal to use an affirmative action policy, or even keep track of racial inequalities, but that's another discussion). These people were as follows: Canadian, French, French, Swiss, Portuguese, English, and a couple of Indian guys. Yes, they understand that their countries also have racial bigotry, but that doesn't mean they don't think we have it too.[/quote] So you found a handful of people that thought that America was bigoted and xenophobic and deduced that this must be fact. I can probably find just as many people in Europe that don’t think America is bigoted and xenophobic. Big deal. But can I ask? When you polled these people on their view of the US, was it outside the halls of a University? And have these people been to the US and experienced it for themselves? Or do they, just like most Americans, lap up what the Main Stream Media love to decide for them?

[bobotech]

In the spirit of this thread and the change we all desire:

[JimmyMethod]

So you found a handful of people that thought that America was bigoted and xenophobic and deduced that this must be fact.

Reading helps:

Most of these people had [sic]spend a lot of time in the U.S. and know that it's just a stereotype

When you polled these people on their view of the US, was it outside the halls of a University? And have these people been to the US and experienced it for themselves?

Some and Yes. Everyone I spoke with has been to the U.S.

Secondarily, why does it matter if I spoke to them inside or outside a University?

It would certainly give more credibility to their opinions if they were college educated, of course... concepts such as international relations really are about ten steps above those who couldn't even go to college.

How has education become a bad thing in your book? In all reality, 99.5% of those without at least a bachelors really contribute nothing substantial to our modern society.

Ohhhh I get it, you really want to be banned for personally attacking people in this forum to prove that you are right and to make others look bad. I see how it is.

You asked if I was being (in your words) "difficult/obstinate, fine. " I have no problem with being difficult. But I will not allow you to put words into my mouth and personally attack people.

What words did I put in your mouth? You said you were 'being obstinate'.

Definition: Stubbornly adhering to an opinion, purpose, or course, usually with implied unreasonablenessIn my book that is childish, and I called you out on it. Sorry?

do they, just like most Americans, lap up what the Main Stream Media love to decide for them?

Sorry for the out of order quote.

The 'Mainstream Media's Liberal Agenda' is a construction of the mainstream media, Rupert Murdoch and Roger Ailes, specifically.

And no, most college educated (the average level of education of these people was a Master's+) people, foreign and domestic (man... I'm on fire today) think for themselves. The ignorant masses are the ones that tend to watch (terrible-fluff-news-and-i'm-including-all-american-news-channels-except-bbc-america) television and buy into it.

btw When I was in Canada this weekend and was watching the news... holy cow, in 5 minutes I saw more actual -news- than an hour of CNN or Fox.

Win:

In the spirit of this thread and the change we all desire:

I had celebratory fried bacon for lunch. It was glorious.

[Cold_Zero]

Reading helps:

Sorry, not that I would expect you to have any compassion, but I was nursing a migraine at work and could barely see my monitor.

Quote »Secondarily, why does it matter if I spoke to them inside or outside a University?[/quote]The reason why I ask was to try and get a gauge on the people you were talking to. Was this a coffee shop at the local university where kids have lofty thoughts not properly tested out in the real world? Or were you at a local pub talking with mill workers after work in the heart of the industrial district. Since you indicated that you were studying, I took a chance with the whole university thing.

Quote »It would certainly give more credibility to their opinions if they were college educated, of course... concepts such as international relations really are about ten steps above those who couldn't even go to college.

How has education become a bad thing in your book? In all reality, 99.5% of those without at least a bachelors really contribute nothing substantial to our modern society. [/quote]I am going to post that last part up on my outdoor cube wall. You have made your way right under Chesty Puller. 95% wow, how elitist of you.

Quote »What words did I put in your mouth? You said you were 'being obstinate'.

Definition: Stubbornly adhering to an opinion, purpose, or course, usually with implied unreasonablenessIn my book that is childish, and I called you out on it. Sorry?[/quote]No for resorting to calling me a reactionary imbecile.

Quote »Ohhh... so you're admitting to being a reactionary imbecile who's willing to slight civil rights to further your argument that's based not on facts, but irrational disdain.

See, I generally think people grow out of that once they hit puberty.[/quote]Basically resorting to name calling and insinuating that I was slighting the civil rights movement, when I did not.

Jimmy,If you want to be an *** and poop in someone else's yard as if it were your owns, fine, just dont do it here. There will come a time when you grow up, get out of college and hit the real world. You will realize that not everyone shares your views, that you dont need to beat people up for having differing opinions, and that it is ok to have a difference of opinions. No one is going to die here if we dont come to a consensus. Remember, we have been told by the Liberals and the Democrats that "Dissent is the highest form of Patriotism."

Quote »The 'Mainstream Media's Liberal Agenda' is a construction of the mainstream media, Rupert Murdoch and Roger Ailes, specifically. [/quote]Yes everything is a conspiracy. Up is down and down is up. I thought that what you said was our 'conspiracy theory'. humpf

[audtatious]

The 'big deal' having to do with our president being black, is that it is an indication that our society can put aside old prejudices and put aside the scars of the past to elect a man who, to many, sits as a reminder of those wounds.

That's one viewpoint. The other viewpoint is that the old prejudices that some claim is still rampant in the US has been gone for quite a while and people keep fanning the old embers as a means to justify themselves or their actions.

[ishkabibble]

Would She and others have supported just any African American running for president?

I dunno. You think she'd support Flavor Flav?

[JimmyMethod]

I am going to post that last part up on my outdoor cube wall. You have made your way right under Chesty Puller. 95% wow, how elitist of you.

Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and stick by what I said.

And I really don't find 'elitist' to be a slight. I worked my *** off to get into the Ivory Tower (though less hard than others) and I'm proud that I have refused to be a peon.

Quote »Jimmy,If you want to be an *** and poop in someone else's yard as if it were your owns, fine, just dont do it here. There will come a time when you grow up, get out of college and hit the real world. You will realize that not everyone shares your views, that you dont need to beat people up for having differing opinions, and that it is ok to have a difference of opinions. No one is going to die here if we dont come to a consensus. Remember, we have been told by the Liberals and the Democrats that "Dissent is the highest form of Patriotism." [/quote]Taking up a contrary position is fine and I welcome anyone to do it. However, when the the whole or majority of an argument is based on logical fallacies, I take offense. It's insulting to me for someone to think that they can use it and I won't notice. If you (not you specifically but anyone) are doing it intentionally, then you're assuming I'm too stupid to pick up on it. If you're doing it accidentally, you really need to learn how to structure an argument before trying to have one with me.

Quote »Yes everything is a conspiracy. Up is down and down is up. I thought that what you said was our 'conspiracy theory'. humpf[/quote]... how is me saying, "There isn't a 'liberal conspiracy' to brainwash the public" me saying there is a conspiracy?

Eric Alterman wrote a good book on this, as did David Brock. The bias in the media isn't really there, except for the news network run by a consultant for 3 of the last 4 republican presidents, Roger Ailes (Fox News), but I've given up being upset about it and just accepted it. I actually watch FN more than just about any American news channel.

[White Comet]

I dunno. You think she'd support Flavor Flav?

the world will never know.........................or will it?

[OriginalWheelman]

Case in point was the 2008 Republican Presidential Debate at the Reagan library, where all the Republicans stood up and proclaimed how they were just like Ronald Reagan.

But they are like Reagan, old, dying, and losing their minds.

[Cold_Zero]

Taking up a contrary position is fine and I welcome anyone to do it. However, when the the whole or majority of an argument is based on logical fallacies, I take offense. It's insulting to me for someone to think that they can use it and I won't notice. If you (not you specifically but anyone) are doing it intentionally, then you're assuming I'm too stupid to pick up on it. If you're doing it accidentally, you really need to learn how to structure an argument before trying to have one with me.

Wait a minute, because I dont think that it is perfectly fine for Obama to invoke the legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King for his (Obama) political benefit; my objection is an illogical fallacy. Yet presumably because I am white and presumably speak against what is sacrosanct, I am how did you say, “reactionary imbecile” that needs to hit puberty?

Can I ask, do you get a feeling, like Chris Matthews, that goes up and down your leg every time Obama speaks? Sorry that I don’t bow down at the Altar of Dear Leader MaObama.

Quote »... how is me saying, "There isn't a 'liberal conspiracy' to brainwash the public" me saying there is a conspiracy?[/quote]You had implied that the Liberal Media Agenda is a fabrication of Ailes and Murdoch. I basically dismissed your assertion as a Conspiracy Theory, since the Left shrugs off the Liberal Media Agenda as a Right Wing conspiracy theory. I thought it was funny.

[Jesda]

I got here in 1982. My folks weren't enslaved by Americans, didn't own any slaves, didn't lead any lynch mobs, and didn't tell blacks they weren't allowed to use the same drinking fountain.

Sorry, not my baggage. Don't care. You need to get over it now. I'm moving on.

Let's talk about taxes and the economy.

[White Comet]

who is that directed towards?

[Jesda]

who is that directed towards?

Anyone overly obsessed with race.

[Cold_Zero]

Let's talk about taxes and the economy.

Thank you Jesda,Sometimes you need a good friend to put the correct perspective on things and give you (in this case the topic) a nudge.thanks bro.

[yotik]

Let's talk about taxes and the economy.

This is good thinking , but history is what it is. The scars from slavery and oppression continue plague our nation. Just look at minority unemployment and you'll see crime and jailbirds are heavily black. Our leaders need to talk about it until it ceases. In the bible it says many times that the way to the truth is by briging things from the darkness into the light. Let's not hide our dirty past, but talk about it openly.

[C-Kwik]

This is good thinking , but history is what it is. The scars from slavery and oppression continue plague our nation. Just look at minority unemployment and you'll see crime and jailbirds are heavily black. Our leaders need to talk about it until it ceases. In the bible it says many times that the way to the truth is by briging things from the darkness into the light. Let's not hide our dirty past, but talk about it openly.

That's a pretty passive comment. If you want to solve the problem, why not try and suggest a way to solve the problem. Telling our leaders they need to talk about it doesn't fix it. Fixing an issue like this is not an easy task. But ultimately, most of the work will have to come from within the minority groups that need the help. We can give them the ball, but they still have to run with it...

[CakeDaddy]

I don't normally venture into the political forum but the coverage of Obama's inauguration is starting to get to me. well that's not true, but it's adding to my growing annoyance since Obama first started running for president. Basically I'm sick.....

Let me get this right, you are sick of hear and seeing Obama on TV so you jump on a forum and create a post about it.

My suggestions to you... Turn your TV off, Read a book, Go to the movies, do yard work.

I'm certain many African Americans are pro obama because of his skin color not his political viewpoints.

One dumb comment deserves another....I guess! x3 I wish I was in Landcaster Pa right now so I could slap that racist taste out of your mouth.

[Chaotic_Warlord]

I'm not a fan of politics, the only thing more guaranteed to start a fight is religion, but I figured I'd add my 10 cents.

First off I would like to point out that if anyone is planning to assassinate Obama, you missed your chance, anything happens to him know it just Martyrs him and you do more harm to your cause than good.

Second I'd like to point out that at know point during the Inauguration did they ever say his middle name, they just said his middle initial, as I'm sure that more than half of the US population doesn't realize that his middle name is in fact Hussein....

I have to say that if the terrorlst wanted a better opportunity to wreck havoc on the US they missed it, or were foiled (though we will never hear about either). a well placed dirty bomb would have wiped out 1/8 of the US population on top of ALL of our leadership with the exception of the the Sec Def. with over 2.5 million people in attendance and all of Senate, Congress, 5 former presidents, on top of several other VIP's that run this country.

I would just like to say that I'm so anti-Obama it's not even funny. He's dirty and I'm waiting for it to come out and pop everyone's bubble so I can point and laugh. I hope the rumors that state he has ties to Hamas are true so we can prosecute him as a traitor.

Oh and being a DE resident all my life I can tell you Biden is more crooked than than Deals Gap and is beyond Dirty, he got to where he is by selling out his own state and doesn't care who he steps on to get to power, and since he is the VP that makes him the head of this new beast on capital hill.

millions of potheads will be rejoicing soon as Obama has stated that one of the first things he is considering is the legalization of MJ. What's next the pardon of various inmates to cut prison costs or the abolition of the death penalty altogether, effing Hippie.

I can go on and I'm sure I'll get flamed but I don't care, just wanted to get some points out there /Rant

Oh and if Obama takes any credit whatsoever for the full pull out of troops from Iraq I will be more than a little pissed. Bush did that ****, and he's been trying to do that **** for over a year, but the Iraqi government has asked us to stay put for fear of chaos taking over now that saddam is gone.

[CakeDaddy]

Second I'd like to point out that at know point during the Inauguration did they ever say his middle name, they just said his middle initial, as I'm sure that more than half of the US population doesn't realize that his middle name is in fact Hussein....

WRONG! 36 seconds into the video.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMyPf4qvdbw...AND WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE? Its only a name... DAMN!!!!

[White Comet]

Let me get this right, you are sick of hear and seeing Obama on TV so you jump on a forum and create a post about it.

My suggestions to you... Turn your TV off, Read a book, Go to the movies, do yard work.

One dumb comment deserves another....I guess! x3 I wish I was in Landcaster Pa right now so I could slap that racist taste out of your mouth.

wow, you're totally missing my point. i feel that it's such a big deal that he's the first black president, that what he plans to do in office is second to the landmark of getting an african american in office (a black man in office is not a bad thing at all, as you could have read from my post). your suggestions for turning off my tv are funny seeing as i don't watch much but big news is hard to miss regardless of weather or not you watch tv. as far as me being racist thats just as funny. i'm not even close to racist. i'm merely stating an observation of mine backed up with fact as shown here

or what about the thing that howard stern did where he went into harlm asked people if they like obam but put in McCain views and vice versa with McCain and they liked obam.. mmmm ....

some (not all) obviously voted for the wrong reason. that's pretty clear, nothing racist about it.

[CakeDaddy]

wow, you're totally missing my point. i feel that it's such a big deal that he's the first black president, that what he plans to do in office is second to the landmark of getting an african american in office (a black man in office is not a bad thing at all, as you could have read from my post). your suggestions for turning off my tv are funny seeing as i don't watch much but big news is hard to miss regardless of weather or not you watch tv. as far as me being racist thats just as funny. i'm not even close to racist. i'm merely stating an observation of mine backed up with fact as shown here

some (not all) obviously voted for the wrong reason. that's pretty clear, nothing racist about it.

It is what it is.... Try making that commment in a room full of blacks and tell me how it turns out. Its racist... and they'll let you know how racist it is.

Do you work with blacks? Try it. Tell them that they only voted for him because he is black and regardless of his views on politics.. you only voted for him because he was black. I dare you. Let me know how it works out.

Also.... try the same experiment out in a room full of white Obama voters.. Let me know. You'll be called a racist . I promise.

... and while you are at it, try it on some hispanics.

The results will be the same...R A C I S T

[smockers83]

Claiming that some blacks voted for Obama because he's black is racist? You make it racist because you're consciously applying to all blacks and you yourself can't accept the simple fact that someone voted simply based on skin color, which in of itself is racist.

[White Comet]

It is what it is.... Try making that commment in a room full of blacks and tell me how it turns out. Its racist... and they'll let you know how racist it is.

Do you work with blacks? Try it. Tell them that they only voted for him because he is black and regardless of his views on politics.. you only voted for him because he was black. I dare you. Let me know how it works out.

Also.... try the same experiment out in a room full of white Obama voters.. Let me know. You'll be called a racist . I promise.

... and while you are at it, try it on some hispanics.

The results will be the same...R A C I S T

you seem to only read what you want. i said some, not all. I wouldn't walk up to someone and tell them why they voted. theres proof to back up the fact that SOME who voted for him did so without knowing his political stands of various issues, nothing racist about it. i don't know why you're so intent on labeling me as a racist but it's far from the truth

[Cali 2 Balti G]

I dunno. You think she'd support Flavor Flav?

Unbelievable??

A better example would have been Clarence Thomas- do you think Justice Thomas - if he had decided to run for president, or even the nomination -do u think he would have been successful?

[ishkabibble]

That's a worse example.

Jeff is a total racist. That's why his nick is White Comet.