Making too big of a deal ABOUT Obama

[bobotech]

Will everyone quit picking on Jimmy?

I feel bad for the kid already.

[JimmyMethod]

Oh damn, your still wrong. Plenty of secretaries, professional assistants, ect[sic] that dont have college educations make bank, and contribute accordingly.

...I don't know what your definition of 'bank' is, but the median top tier secretary income is $31k/year and the 75%ile is $35k, and that is hovering between working and lower-middle class.

Also: What in the world makes you think that a secretary has a substantial impact on society?

Quote »They dont do much working at McD's. However, you are taking that individual and saying that they are only a McD's manager. How do you know that those people arnt secretly super heros, or webstars? Surely a lowly WalMart employee by day can contribute to society in great ways when not at work. They can invent things, create things, save lives, stop crime, and can help society in a myriad of different ways. [/quote]I really can't tell if this is a joke or not. Really?Quote »College is a luxury bud. Not all the inventors and great thinkers/minds have the luxury of furthering their education past HS. [/quote]While it seems that way, in almost all other developed nation, it's considered a basic human right."higher education shall be made equally accessible to all, on the basis of capacity, by every appropriate means, and in particular by the progressive introduction of free education" - International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights of 1966

Most of my friends from other countries paid ~$300/year for their undergrad or less.

Also, modern 'invention' is not an individual process (to be truthful, things really aren't 'invented' anymore, they are engineered). It takes teams of people with extensive engineering knowledge to innovate.

Stop the prejudice, you cant judge a person by their myspace page!

Well, I certainly can judge a person for having a myspace page...

Will everyone quit picking on Jimmy?

I feel bad for the kid already.

Mm... most people have been agreeing with me, at least to some extent. The only person who's been 'picking on me' as you say i.e. whining because I said stupid people are stupid is 480sx, and he has yet to form any real argument refuting what I said.

[Jesda]

I like Jimmy's hair. He's so dreamy.

[bobotech]

Lets make this thread a Jimmymethod love-in! Everyone else, name something that you love about Jimmy!

[480sx]

...I don't know what your definition of 'bank' is, but the median top tier secretary income is $31k/year and the 75%ile is $35k, and that is hovering between working and lower-middle class.

That was just an example, and think secretary for someone with money not secretary at your local dentist office. There are specialized welders who pull 100k + a year, fabricators who pull more than that, project managers who pull in 100k a year, the list just goes on and on. Mechanics who pull 80k a year working at a dealership, to say nothing of service writers and parts salesmen who can make bank if they are good at their job. Then theirs professional massage therapists who can bank 60-100k a year. I mean really i could just keep going on.. But lets see you debunk 99.5 percent of all of those guys before i continue.

I really can't tell if this is a joke or not. Really?

Dispute it. How do you know that a McD's manager forced to work to support his family at an early age isnt a genius who goes home and contributes to society on YouTube? Or maybe writes books or poetry in his spare time, and one day could become something. Or what if this McD's worker disarms a gunman and saves a life? You cant write off someone just because they have a medium or low paying job.

While it seems that way, in almost all other developed nation, it's considered a basic human right.

It just becomes more and more apparent that you have no idea what goes on in the real world. Rich kid? Grew up in the mountains or in a cave?

"higher education shall be made equally accessible to all, on the basis of capacity, by every appropriate means, and in particular by the progressive introduction of free education" - International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights of 1966

Oh, i didnt realize! The UNHCHR came down and said, 'Let free higher education be available to all'! I mean your kidding me right? You do realize that the UN has all of ZERO chance in its current state of implementing such an idea or policy.

Oh, the percentage of the worlds population that is college educated? About 1 percent. Wow the UN really let me down on that one...

That means, with your brilliant 'pulled out of your A' statistics, 6,722,717,500 out of the roughly 6,756,500,000 billion people who inhabit this earth contribute nothing to society.

I think its time you figure out what society is, because your distance from reality is laughable.

Most of my friends from other countries paid ~$300/year for their undergrad or less.

Man you guys should go start your own society, let me know how that works out.

Also, modern 'invention' is not an individual process (to be truthful, things really aren't 'invented' anymore, they are engineered). It takes teams of people with extensive engineering knowledge to innovate.

It can be an individual process, what the hell are you smoking. I can come up with an idea, build it myself, and market my invention to the world. While a lot of things are engineered from advanced degrees and countless hours of research and labor, the guy who invents the pet rock still walks away a multi-millionaire.

Things arnt invented anymore? Let me break down the stupidity of that phrase by its literary definition.

to be truthful, things really aren't 'created by a product of the mind' anymore

Yea.

The only person who's been 'picking on me' as you say i.e. whining because I said stupid people are stupid is 480sx

Your saying that people who arnt college educated are stupid this time. This proves how truly idiotic you really are. Im sorry to break this to you kid, just because your in college doesnt mean you have any kind of intelligence as your posts have displayed. This is speaking universally as well, but is mostly directed at you. You have problems with simple grammar and sentence structure but come across as some elitist.

he has yet to form any real argument refuting what I said.

You have yet to display the required grey/white matter to decipher the sound arguments that i, and everyone else in this thread have made. So this might just be an effort in futility.

[JimmyMethod]

That was just an example, and think secretary for someone with money not secretary at your local dentist office. There are specialized welders who pull 100k + a year, fabricators who pull more than that, project managers who pull in 100k a year, the list just goes on and on. Mechanics who pull 80k a year working at a dealership, to say nothing of service writers and parts salesmen who can make bank if they are good at their job. Then theirs professional massage therapists who can bank 60-100k a year. I mean really i could just keep going on.. But lets see you debunk 99.5 percent of all of those guys before i continue.

I'll give you that a skilled tradesperson can pull in a lot of money, (I knew an underwater welder who, after 10 years,m moved to the nice part of St. Thomas) but in what way are they actually innovating? They are just following directions.

Quote »a genius who goes home and contributes to society on YouTube?[/quote] THAT'S the part I found to be humorous... I really can't stop laughing at that...

Quote »Or maybe writes books or poetry in his spare time, and one day could become something.[/quote] my opinion of 'Les Ecrivans' has diminished with the fact that society no longer relies on books for it's entertainment. We as a people read so little that a writer, while potentially 'good', really has no effect on the populace.

Quote »Or what if this McD's worker disarms a gunman and saves a life?[/quote]... part of me wants to say that if a gunman came into MaccyD's and started shooting, he'd be more of a force for good than the person who stopped him.

Quote »It just becomes more and more apparent that you have no idea what goes on in the real world. Rich kid? Grew up in the mountains or in a cave?[/quote]...because I have a global perspective on higher education, and can compare our antiquated system of only supplying it to the wealthy to that of other civilized countries that supply it to all, you think I grew up in a cave?

I will admit to being the child of a Ph.D and M.D. and the grandchild of the owners/founders of a fairly successful aluminum extrusion and anodizing company. However, how does that exclude me from saying that I think education should be provided to not just the wealthy?

Your logic is backwards. Maybe if I was saying we should hike up the price so no one else can go you bitching about me being from a wealthy family would make sense.

Quote » You do realize that the UN has all of ZERO chance in its current state of implementing such an idea or policy. I think its time you figure out what society is, because your distance from reality is laughable.[/quote]The UN didn't 'implement' it, member nations set out to accomplish it on their own, and succeeded. Education is cheap pretty much everywhere of note, but here.

It's 'laughable' how little you know about the world/what I'm saying. This isn't some lofty future goal... It's been going on for decades.

This is exactly my point, you fail at even understanding global culture, let alone contributing to it.

Quote »Man you guys should go start your own society, let me know how that works out.[/quote]... why would Europe need to start another society?

Quote »It can be an individual process, what the hell are you smoking. I can come up with an idea, build it myself, and market my invention to the world. While a lot of things are engineered from advanced degrees and countless hours of research and labor, the guy who invents the pet rock still walks away a multi-millionaire. [/quote]...Again, I say that 'making a bunch of money' doesn't make you a productive member of society. If the inventor of the 'pet rock' was never born, the world would be no worse, and perhaps a better place.

"Your saying that people who arn't college educated are stupid this time. This proves how truly idiotic you really are. I'm sorry to break this to you, kid, just because your in college doesn't mean you have any kind of intelligence as your posts have displayed. This is speaking universally as well, but is mostly directed at you. You have problems with simple grammar and sentence structure"

This is the internet, and I'm quite sick. I'll admit I make spelling/punctuation/grammar mistakes because I generally am doing this while doing something else. I just find it hilarious that you decided to ridicule my grammar with such an atrocious paragraph.

Quote »You have yet to display the required grey/white matter to decipher the sound arguments that i, and everyone else in this thread have made. So this might just be an effort in futility.[/quote] I've seen you fall back on ad hominem and argumentum ad populum. I'm waiting for something of value.

[JimmyMethod]

I like Jimmy's hair. He's so dreamy.

I have some bad news for you, hunny. It's shaved off:

[audtatious]

OMG, there is soooo much I could say about that photo

[JimmyMethod]

Lets make this thread a Jimmymethod love-in! Everyone else, name something that you love about Jimmy!

I love my flamebates,I love my pwning n00bs,I love my trolling posts,I love my man boobs,I love this whole site and all it's fanboy crap,boomdeyada, boomdeyada,boomdeyada, boomdeyada.

[Jesda]

I have some bad news for you, hunny. It's shaved off:

You are dead to me now.

[smockers83]

Alright, so here's the deal. Both sides of the latest argument are wrong until one side goes and finds labor statistics on blue collar jobs that contribute to society (a hint: visit the website of the Bureau of Labor Statistics). And contributing to society does not mean being in Corporate America, reinventing the wheel, etc. Jimmy, I love ya as I am an alum, but some of the stuff you're saying is a little off base and not completely connected with reality. Just some. If I see a shaved head at Charlie's or the Jug, I'll know it's you.

As for government investing being inefficient. I think there's a little bit of confusion here between spending and investment. Government spending can be largely inefficient because of the fact that the government is a huge bureaucracy. In terms of investing, lets define what we're trying to determine as inefficient. Is it in terms of returns or what?

As for research, many of things we have today originated from government research. In fact, us here on the Internet originated from government research, not from Al Gore. Radar, government research. GPS, government research. Jet engines, government research. Your Tempurpedic mattress, government research. I could go on and on about the things governments have originated through research and eventually spilled over into the private sector. So research does not equal pork. What does equal pork though is money put up for donkey museums.

*edit* As for the furthering of the college education argument, I can think of many jobs and sectors that are blue collar and contribute greatly to society.

[White Comet]

i'm not gonna lie, i havent read this thread in a few pages and i don't even want to know how it got to where its at, but i did skim a little of the argument about how much you can make with schooling and without, and even thoguh i'm in college and think its the right choice for me, my dad and my grandfather have their own businesses and have never gone to college. theres plenty of money to be had without college and still have a career thats contributing to society

[bobotech]

I have some bad news for you, hunny. It's shaved off:

Howie Mandel, is that you?

[JimmyMethod]

The goal was Phil Dalhausser.

[BusyBadger]

We as a people read so little that a writer, while potentially 'good', really has no effect on the populace.

So, you're saying an author, no matter how profound, mundane, prolific or unproductive will never exert any influence on the general populace and have little or no impact on the lives of Americans (or anyone for that matter)? Your omniscience is astounding. I'll take some lottery numbers or even the winner of the Superbowl when you finish polishing your dome.

As an exercise I'd like to pose a question: Did "The Turner Diaries" influence any lives for better or worse in the last 20 years.

... part of me wants to say that if a gunman came into MaccyD's and started shooting, he'd be more of a force for good than the person who stopped him.

If you're making some weak form of social commentary on obesity and individual health in America I'll give you a little credit for trying to be clever. If however, as I suspect, you're dismayed that someone would actually deign to have tastes different than your own and your (seemingly) limited circle of acquaintances my view of your boorish behaviour and your limited scope of view is clarified a little more.

The goal was Phil Dalhausser.

Isn't it odd how the acheivement can be so different than the original intention?



Edit: Linked the wrong file.


Modified by BusyBadger at 8:00 AM 1/28/2009

[480sx]

I'll give you that a skilled tradesperson can pull in a lot of money, (I knew an underwater welder who, after 10 years,m moved to the nice part of St. Thomas) but in what way are they actually innovating? They are just following directions.

Think of this skilled person to be a PHD in his specific field. Now, lets say this person sees a problem with the common methodology used to to X task(this is just one small example of how ANYONE can contribute to society[in your lame brained way of thinking about how people contribute to society]). He comes up with a new method that is widely accepted as the best way of doing things, thus he has become an innovator, inventor, and contributed to society(again, in your 'special' way).

THAT'S the part I found to be humorous... I really can't stop laughing at that...

It was meant to be partially a joke. However, discount said individuals contribution to society.

my opinion of 'Les Ecrivans' has diminished with the fact that society no longer relies on books for it's entertainment. We as a people read so little that a writer, while potentially 'good', really has no effect on the populace.

The populace of today Jimmy. Dont forget about the last 2000 years. Its only in the last 10-15 years that this big shift has been made away from conventional entertainment to television, vid games and the internet. There will most likely be a rebound eventually.

In addition, there will always be intellectuals who read books and poetry. I still read both. Some of society is not entertained by television or Hollywood exclusively. Some arnt entertained by either.

... part of me wants to say that if a gunman came into MaccyD's and started shooting, he'd be more of a force for good than the person who stopped him.

The ignorant bigot wanabe elitist part? I think i give you to much credit.....

...because I have a global perspective on higher education, and can compare our antiquated system of only supplying it to the wealthy to that of other civilized countries that supply it to all, you think I grew up in a cave?

-24000 average annual tuition paid for a stateside 4 year.

-15000 average annual tuition paid for a British 4 year.

-17000 average annual tuition paid for a Ireland 4 year.

-8000 average annual tuition paid for a Australian 4 year.

-Europe is much more affordable, but they pay such high taxes so it balances itself out. About 1300 dollars per year.

-Germany has an awesome higher education policy, 1000 euros where ever you go regardless of where your from.

-China? Who knows, it was a void to google.

-Japan has a dictatorship style of education. If you fail a test, your out. If you pass, your in like flint.

-India is cheap.

-France sucks.

-The rest of the world.... Heres where that nice doctrine falls apart. Africa, Southern America, Mexico, just to name a few.

So your right to a degree, American degrees are pretty much the most expensive in the globe. HOWEVER.... Its pretty much a known world fact that the best universities in the globe are in America. The best, highest paid, most renowned teachers come here because of our 'capitalist' system of government.

So i could say, you get what your pay for.

Also, its called student loans. You may have never heard of these, but a a vast majority of people use them and get a very nice education without having it spoon feed to them.

In addition, i would LOVE to know what kind of global experience you have with foreign education systems. Please tell.

I will admit to being the child of a Ph.D and M.D. and the grandchild of the owners/founders of a fairly successful aluminum extrusion and anodizing company.

I already knew where you came from, it oozes out of you in your posts. It would have just been cooler if you had been raised in a cave.

However, how does that exclude me from saying that I think education should be provided to not just the wealthy?

Your all over the place with your 'arguments'.

Your logic is backwards. Maybe if I was saying we should hike up the price so no one else can go you bitching about me being from a wealthy family would make sense.

Yea.. makes... sense.... Relevance..? Along with a few other things....

The UN didn't 'implement' it, member nations set out to accomplish it on their own, and succeeded. Education is cheap pretty much everywhere of note, but here.

I never said the UN implemented it.. It was a doctrine that was written in 66 with the ideas, as you said, that it would be implemented on its own. Self implemented by the countries inside the UN. The whole idea behind the writing of this thing was to see it implemented, i suppose my terminology when i spoke of this was misleading.

Some member nations succeeded, most did not. Education is not cheap and readily available everywhere else. Cheaper than here, yes.

It's 'laughable' how little you know about the world/what I'm saying. This isn't some lofty future goal... It's been going on for decades.

It has been progressing, but it is still a lofty future goal. To think otherwise is to ignore over 50 percent of the globe.

This is exactly my point, you fail at even understanding global culture, let alone contributing to it.

What your saying is mostly crap, so im glad i dont know much about it. Knowledge has spawned out of some of the crap you have posted through my own independent research, you can take credit for that if you like.

Oh, please tell me how you understand even a substantial fragment of global culture and contribute accordingly at the age of 22 while your still in college?

... why would Europe need to start another society?

Because it could be a Utopian society, where only the Einsteins, the Darwins, the Froyds, Shakespeares, Beethovens and Jimmy were allowed in. Cant you picture it Jimmy? You would never have to see another McDonnalds in your life. You would never have to look down your nose at a construction worker or plumber. You could be rid of all of the people who contribute nothing to society, so no one could hold you back. Think of what Jimmy could do!

...Again, I say that 'making a bunch of money' doesn't make you a productive member of society. If the inventor of the 'pet rock' was never born, the world would be no worse, and perhaps a better place.

Your argument goes all over the place, again. You jump from contributing to society, to making money, then back to contributing to society as if you yourself didnt bring those subjects up.

This is the internet, and I'm quite sick.

Good for you Jimmy.

I just find it hilarious that you decided to ridicule my grammar with such an atrocious paragraph.

The paragraph was sound. Apostrophes have no place in the internet, there simply isnt the time for them anymore. Your is a commonly used replacement now for you're. At least in my head it is..

I've seen you fall back on ad hominem and argumentum ad populum. I'm waiting for something of value.

Ahh Jimmy Jimmy... Bringing up fallacies in latin that i may have made through out my many arguments. If you want to make a point, you need to be specific. Point out these specific fallacies please, or that comment is completely useless. You see Jimmy, fallacies are very tricky for most people and require a great deal of scrutiny to discern if a true fallacious argument has been made. Simply because you say that i have committed such fallacies does not make it so.

You have no authority here, so get over yourself kid. No, i didnt need a comma there either.

EDIT - ROTFLMAO at BB's flagrancy raking system. They even have matching glasses, isnt that cute?

[datsun2401972]

Wow, I love this thread...especially BusyBadger comin FAR out of left field and posting the Gheyness Order of Magnitude meter, that's epic.

Jimmy, just think if all those useless, undereducated peons decided to stop working. Cars would no longer be repaired, planes would no longer fly, food would no longer be served in restaurants...and that's just the start.

I think everyone here has some level of respect for those who earn a college degree, whether it was a free ride or loaned out. But that doesn't justify reducing people without to a worthless blob of flesh and bones.